|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:42:29 AM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 1378
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
Obama: I think America's greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we still don't abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me, and that notion of -- that basic principle applies to poverty.
My middle name is NOT Ebenezer!. It's, um, never mind.
In 2002 the Obamas made more than one quarter million dollars and gave barely $1000 to charity.
In 2001 the Obamas made more than one quarter million dollars and they gave less than $1500 to charity.
If the guy didn't have an impulse to blame America, he recognize his own stinginess.
Give me your earnings and I'll show you how to be charitable.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 2:43:29 AM
|
|
|
henny
Posts: 1179
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
|
He did say, just before that, that his own personal moral failure was selfishness.
So I'm not sure how you can get, "The problem of selfishness is America's, not mine" out of that.
And besides that, he is American, after all (despite what some would have you believe), so one could imply that he includes himself, as an American, in his criticisms of America. He didn't say "they" as in "those Americans," but instead "We" as in "we Americans" -including himself in the criticisms.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 7:32:37 AM
|
|
|
huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
|
i think i am going to have to agree with Henny on this one...although, it appears that Obama is a hypocrite, usually it is the smoker on his death bed that knows best what he did wrong...
i don't support Obama, but i agree with him on america's number one moral failure: selfishness...
but hey, selfishness is the root of capitalism anyway...although i do appreciate a free market...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 8:10:26 AM
|
|
|
Rufas2000
Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
A question (not a debate point): Isn't it possible that Senator Obama makes charitable contributions that do not get reported on his tax returns? Or anyone for that matter. If that isn't possible or highly unlikely then an explanation would be appreciated. Thanks.
_____________________________
Be my friend!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 8:35:36 AM
|
|
|
huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
|
^^^quite possible...but surely, that probability is low...
anybody who makes that much, needs as many tax write-offs as possible...charity is one of those that is easily done...i doubt it...
also, as a politician, anything that is done, is in the public eye, and even under heightened scrutiny, not to mention running for el presidente...charity contributions would be encouraged!!! especially when making as much as Obama (considering the year 2002 as well)...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 9:00:29 AM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
I think Obama has been definitely been caught in another bit of hypocrisy. By saying he is not a hypocrite because he, as an American, includes himself in the statement is simply parsing words.
Unfortunately this is something which seems to hit Democrat nominees frequently (Gore and Kerry are two notable examples). The fact is that they say Americans don't give enough so they want higher taxes to force our giving... pure hypocrisy.
It seems to me that they are projecting their guilt onto the general populace... asserting a premise which I don't believe is true. America, as a country, is always first on the spot with humanitarian aide and assistance whenever and wherever a disaster hits. How can a presidential candidate make such statements as we don't take care of "the least of these"? He should work on his own selfishness first before projecting his guilt on the national populace.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 9:20:56 AM
|
|
|
SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
I think Obama has been definitely been caught in another bit of hypocrisy. By saying he is not a hypocrite because he, as an American, includes himself in the statement is simply parsing words.
Unfortunately this is something which seems to hit Democrat nominees frequently (Gore and Kerry are two notable examples). The fact is that they say Americans don't give enough so they want higher taxes to force our giving... pure hypocrisy.
It seems to me that they are projecting their guilt onto the general populace... asserting a premise which I don't believe is true. America, as a country, is always first on the spot with humanitarian aide and assistance whenever and wherever a disaster hits. How can a presidential candidate make such statements as we don't take care of "the least of these"? He should work on his own selfishness first before projecting his guilt on the national populace.
Communication in the English language is largely a matter of being able to speak it fluently, understanding its idioms and construction - and being able to accept a sentence for what it actually says.
Unfortunately for the Right's ability to make any sense, they have been spinning the English language so perpetually and for so long that they can't even remember what the first-person plural "we" MEANS - or else they are so clueless that they pretend it means something other than what it does mean. Take your pick.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 9:26:23 AM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
I think Obama has been definitely been caught in another bit of hypocrisy. By saying he is not a hypocrite because he, as an American, includes himself in the statement is simply parsing words.
Unfortunately this is something which seems to hit Democrat nominees frequently (Gore and Kerry are two notable examples). The fact is that they say Americans don't give enough so they want higher taxes to force our giving... pure hypocrisy.
It seems to me that they are projecting their guilt onto the general populace... asserting a premise which I don't believe is true. America, as a country, is always first on the spot with humanitarian aide and assistance whenever and wherever a disaster hits. How can a presidential candidate make such statements as we don't take care of "the least of these"? He should work on his own selfishness first before projecting his guilt on the national populace.
Communication in the English language is largely a matter of being able to speak it fluently, understanding its idioms and construction - and being able to accept a sentence for what it actually says.
Unfortunately for the Right's ability to make any sense, they have been spinning the English language so perpetually and for so long that they can't even remember what the first-person plural "we" MEANS - or else they are so clueless that they pretend it means something other than what it does mean. Take your pick.
I have no trouble understanding the first person plural.
It seems to me the problem with this candidate is that he is so immersed in his own guilt that he is projecting it onto the populace. Now, maybe you feel his guilt for the same or similar reasons, but I don't... and the evidence of our national generosity is clear.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 9:34:45 AM
|
|
|
SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
I think Obama has been definitely been caught in another bit of hypocrisy. By saying he is not a hypocrite because he, as an American, includes himself in the statement is simply parsing words.
Unfortunately this is something which seems to hit Democrat nominees frequently (Gore and Kerry are two notable examples). The fact is that they say Americans don't give enough so they want higher taxes to force our giving... pure hypocrisy.
It seems to me that they are projecting their guilt onto the general populace... asserting a premise which I don't believe is true. America, as a country, is always first on the spot with humanitarian aide and assistance whenever and wherever a disaster hits. How can a presidential candidate make such statements as we don't take care of "the least of these"? He should work on his own selfishness first before projecting his guilt on the national populace.
Communication in the English language is largely a matter of being able to speak it fluently, understanding its idioms and construction - and being able to accept a sentence for what it actually says.
Unfortunately for the Right's ability to make any sense, they have been spinning the English language so perpetually and for so long that they can't even remember what the first-person plural "we" MEANS - or else they are so clueless that they pretend it means something other than what it does mean. Take your pick.
I have no trouble understanding the first person plural.
It seems to me the problem with this candidate is that he is so immersed in his own guilt that he is projecting it onto the populace. Now, maybe you feel his guilt for the same or similar reasons, but I don't... and the evidence of our national generosity is clear.
Okay, first he's a hypocrite because he's talking about 'us', and then he's a hypocrite because he's REALLY talking about himself, and then he's a hypocrite because he's talking about someone other than himself.
make up your mind, willya?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 9:38:14 AM
|
|
|
Rufas2000
Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
^^^quite possible...but surely, that probability is low...
anybody who makes that much, needs as many tax write-offs as possible...charity is one of those that is easily done...i doubt it...
I figured tax write offs were part of it. Thanks for the response.
_____________________________
Be my friend!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 9:57:23 AM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
I think Obama has been definitely been caught in another bit of hypocrisy. By saying he is not a hypocrite because he, as an American, includes himself in the statement is simply parsing words.
Unfortunately this is something which seems to hit Democrat nominees frequently (Gore and Kerry are two notable examples). The fact is that they say Americans don't give enough so they want higher taxes to force our giving... pure hypocrisy.
It seems to me that they are projecting their guilt onto the general populace... asserting a premise which I don't believe is true. America, as a country, is always first on the spot with humanitarian aide and assistance whenever and wherever a disaster hits. How can a presidential candidate make such statements as we don't take care of "the least of these"? He should work on his own selfishness first before projecting his guilt on the national populace.
Communication in the English language is largely a matter of being able to speak it fluently, understanding its idioms and construction - and being able to accept a sentence for what it actually says.
Unfortunately for the Right's ability to make any sense, they have been spinning the English language so perpetually and for so long that they can't even remember what the first-person plural "we" MEANS - or else they are so clueless that they pretend it means something other than what it does mean. Take your pick.
I have no trouble understanding the first person plural.
It seems to me the problem with this candidate is that he is so immersed in his own guilt that he is projecting it onto the populace. Now, maybe you feel his guilt for the same or similar reasons, but I don't... and the evidence of our national generosity is clear.
Okay, first he's a hypocrite because he's talking about 'us', and then he's a hypocrite because he's REALLY talking about himself, and then he's a hypocrite because he's talking about someone other than himself.
make up your mind, willya?
1. Obama was quick to point out America's great moral failure as not giving to the poor. I will grant that by saying "we" he included himself. My problem with "we" is that he included the whole nation. No one, not Obama or you or anyone else, can convince me that America (as a nation) ignores the needs of the poor or those who have experienced disaster of some kind.
2. Obama's tax records clearly show that he is right to include himself in the "we" part of his statement... but has no justification at all to include anyone other than himself.
3. I would accept the "great moral failure" as being his, and his alone - but absolutely reject the notion that it applies to the nation.
To sum up, for the sake of clarity:
Maybe he is not a hypocrite if he says that, "My great moral failure is that I have not applied the basic precept in Matthew regarding "whatever you do to the least of my brothers". First person singular - not first person plural.
But he is clearly not right to include the whole nation in that guilt.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 11:56:44 AM
|
|
|
SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
I think Obama has been definitely been caught in another bit of hypocrisy. By saying he is not a hypocrite because he, as an American, includes himself in the statement is simply parsing words.
Unfortunately this is something which seems to hit Democrat nominees frequently (Gore and Kerry are two notable examples). The fact is that they say Americans don't give enough so they want higher taxes to force our giving... pure hypocrisy.
It seems to me that they are projecting their guilt onto the general populace... asserting a premise which I don't believe is true. America, as a country, is always first on the spot with humanitarian aide and assistance whenever and wherever a disaster hits. How can a presidential candidate make such statements as we don't take care of "the least of these"? He should work on his own selfishness first before projecting his guilt on the national populace.
Communication in the English language is largely a matter of being able to speak it fluently, understanding its idioms and construction - and being able to accept a sentence for what it actually says.
Unfortunately for the Right's ability to make any sense, they have been spinning the English language so perpetually and for so long that they can't even remember what the first-person plural "we" MEANS - or else they are so clueless that they pretend it means something other than what it does mean. Take your pick.
I have no trouble understanding the first person plural.
It seems to me the problem with this candidate is that he is so immersed in his own guilt that he is projecting it onto the populace. Now, maybe you feel his guilt for the same or similar reasons, but I don't... and the evidence of our national generosity is clear.
Okay, first he's a hypocrite because he's talking about 'us', and then he's a hypocrite because he's REALLY talking about himself, and then he's a hypocrite because he's talking about someone other than himself.
make up your mind, willya?
1. Obama was quick to point out America's great moral failure as not giving to the poor. I will grant that by saying "we" he included himself. My problem with "we" is that he included the whole nation. No one, not Obama or you or anyone else, can convince me that America (as a nation) ignores the needs of the poor or those who have experienced disaster of some kind.
2. Obama's tax records clearly show that he is right to include himself in the "we" part of his statement... but has no justification at all to include anyone other than himself.
3. I would accept the "great moral failure" as being his, and his alone - but absolutely reject the notion that it applies to the nation.
To sum up, for the sake of clarity:
Maybe he is not a hypocrite if he says that, "My great moral failure is that I have not applied the basic precept in Matthew regarding "whatever you do to the least of my brothers". First person singular - not first person plural.
But he is clearly not right to include the whole nation in that guilt.
Did you watch the *debate*? Did you read the transcript?
Obama answered about AMERICA because he was ASKED about America, AFTER being asked (and fully answering) the SAME question about HIMSELF.
Here's the two questions, and Obama's response to BOTH:
> WARREN: OK, all right. Let's talk about personal life. The Bible says that integrity and love are the basis of leadership. This is a tough question. What would be, looking over your life -- everybody's got weaknesses. Nobody's perfect -- would be the greatest moral failure in your life? And what would be the greatest moral failure of America?
>Which Obama answers, about HIS (Obama's) life:<
OBAMA: Well, in my own life I'd break it up in stages. I had a difficult youth. My father wasn't in the house. I've written about this. You know, there were times where I experimented with drugs. I drank in my teenage years. And what I traced this to is a certain selfishness on my part. I was so obsessed with me and, you know, the reasons that I might be dissatisfied that I couldn't focus on other people. And I think the process for me of growing up was to recognize that it's not about me. It's about --
WARREN: I like that. I like that.
OBAMA: Absolutely. So -- but look, you know, when I -- when I find myself taking the wrong step, I think a lot of times it's because I'm trying to protect myself instead of trying to do god's work.
WARREN: Fundamental selfishness.
OBAMA: So that I think is my own failure.
>THEN, Warren shifts the question...<
WARREN: What about America?
> And NOW Obama starts talking about "we" - as in Americans, AS HE WAS ASKED<
OBAMA: I think America's greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we still don't abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me, and that notion of -- that basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to, you know, not having -- not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class. There's a pervasive sense, I think, that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of us. <
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:15:59 PM
|
|
|
huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
|
^^^the sad thing is that, when one makes a dollar, one loses a dollar...
when someone enters the middle class, one is going to the lower class...
it will be like this until death or Christ's return...and this is because we live in a fallen world...(and i know this is common sense)...
still in principle, we should be more wanting to give and love than take and hate...
and i don't believe this problem can be remedied from taking from the upper class...there will always be an upper class because the type of economy we have...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:20:51 PM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Obama answered about AMERICA because he was ASKED about America, AFTER being asked (and fully answering) the SAME question about HIMSELF.
Here's the two questions, and Obama's response to BOTH:
> WARREN: OK, all right. Let's talk about personal life. The Bible says that integrity and love are the basis of leadership. This is a tough question. What would be, looking over your life -- everybody's got weaknesses. Nobody's perfect -- would be the greatest moral failure in your life? And what would be the greatest moral failure of America?
>Which Obama answers, about HIS (Obama's) life:<
OBAMA: Well, in my own life I'd break it up in stages. I had a difficult youth. My father wasn't in the house. I've written about this. You know, there were times where I experimented with drugs. I drank in my teenage years. And what I traced this to is a certain selfishness on my part. I was so obsessed with me and, you know, the reasons that I might be dissatisfied that I couldn't focus on other people. And I think the process for me of growing up was to recognize that it's not about me. It's about --
WARREN: I like that. I like that.
OBAMA: Absolutely. So -- but look, you know, when I -- when I find myself taking the wrong step, I think a lot of times it's because I'm trying to protect myself instead of trying to do god's work.
WARREN: Fundamental selfishness.
OBAMA: So that I think is my own failure.
>THEN, Warren shifts the question...<
WARREN: What about America?
> And NOW Obama starts talking about "we" - as in Americans, AS HE WAS ASKED<
OBAMA: I think America's greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we still don't abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me, and that notion of -- that basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to, you know, not having -- not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class. There's a pervasive sense, I think, that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of us. <
Thanks for pointing all of this out.
Now, what has Obama done, as an American, as someone who has observed and experienced all of this injustice in America, to improve the situation for "the least of these". From his tax returns, it looks like he has done far less than folks making a whole lot less money. Does this mean that he is still in one of those selfish stages he spoke about in the first question?
Also, how can this man seriously claim that "ladders of opportunity" for people to get into the middle class have not been provided in his lifetime? How did he and his wife get where they are? Are they not among those who have climbed a "ladder of opportunity"?
No doubt, we could be doing more... but if you were around in the sixties you would see very few African Americans in universities or in management positions and nearly all affluent communities lacked people of color. That is definitely not true today and no one, not even Obama, can honestly claim otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:23:35 PM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
^^^the sad thing is that, when one makes a dollar, one loses a dollar...
when someone enters the middle class, one is going to the lower class...
This is NOT true. Wealth is created - it is not stolen.
The only case in which wealth is transferred is through government action - like welfare. (I am not arguing against using welfare to help the poor.)
The free market creates wealth.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:26:19 PM
|
|
|
huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
^^^the sad thing is that, when one makes a dollar, one loses a dollar...
when someone enters the middle class, one is going to the lower class...
This is NOT true. Wealth is created - it is not stolen.
The only case in which wealth is transferred is through government action - like welfare. (I am not arguing against using welfare to help the poor.)
The free market creates wealth.
yeah...but i am considering net worth in the world as a whole...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:29:16 PM
|
|
|
SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
Thanks for pointing all of this out.
Now, what has Obama done, as an American, as someone who has observed and experienced all of this injustice in America, to improve the situation for "the least of these". From his tax returns, it looks like he has done far less than folks making a whole lot less money. Does this mean that he is still in one of those selfish stages he spoke about in the first question?
Also, how can this man seriously claim that "ladders of opportunity" for people to get into the middle class have not been provided in his lifetime? How did he and his wife get where they are? Are they not among those who have climbed a "ladder of opportunity"?
No doubt, we could be doing more... but if you were around in the sixties you would see very few African Americans in universities or in management positions and nearly all affluent communities lacked people of color. That is definitely not true today and no one, not even Obama, can honestly claim otherwise.
You're quite welcome - pointing out the lapses of knowledge in Obama-bashers has turned into a full-time hobby, and one always appreciates acknowledgement that the education is 'taking'.
Now, if you could only refrain from making yet another innuendo-based attack on Obama as a smokescreen to cover your retreat from being busted on your first false attack upon him...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:34:15 PM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
Thanks for pointing all of this out.
Now, what has Obama done, as an American, as someone who has observed and experienced all of this injustice in America, to improve the situation for "the least of these". From his tax returns, it looks like he has done far less than folks making a whole lot less money. Does this mean that he is still in one of those selfish stages he spoke about in the first question?
Also, how can this man seriously claim that "ladders of opportunity" for people to get into the middle class have not been provided in his lifetime? How did he and his wife get where they are? Are they not among those who have climbed a "ladder of opportunity"?
No doubt, we could be doing more... but if you were around in the sixties you would see very few African Americans in universities or in management positions and nearly all affluent communities lacked people of color. That is definitely not true today and no one, not even Obama, can honestly claim otherwise.
You're quite welcome - pointing out the lapses of knowledge in Obama-bashers has turned into a full-time hobby, and one always appreciates acknowledgement that the education is 'taking'.
Now, if you could only refrain from making yet another innuendo-based attack on Obama as a smokescreen to cover your retreat from being busted on your first false attack upon him...
What false Attack?
Did he not say that the moral failure of America that they don't care for "the least of these?"
Does not his tax returns show a lack of committment to charitable giving (ie "the least of these")?
Is he not implying that mean old America is still keeping the poor from improving their lot in life?
Is it not clear that all of his assertion as baseless? even to the most casual of observers?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:36:38 PM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
^^^the sad thing is that, when one makes a dollar, one loses a dollar...
when someone enters the middle class, one is going to the lower class...
This is NOT true. Wealth is created - it is not stolen.
The only case in which wealth is transferred is through government action - like welfare. (I am not arguing against using welfare to help the poor.)
The free market creates wealth.
yeah...but i am considering net worth in the world as a whole...
But again, net worth comes with human effort.
All the oil in the ground under Saudi Arabia, for example, is not worth much unless human effort is exerted to extract that oil.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:36:56 PM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 1378
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
Obama is secretly Mother Teresa, giving away everything he owns to the poor. He's so modest about his charity that he won't even report it to the IRS. Instead he reports only very small amounts to deflect attention away form his charity.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 12:39:19 PM
|
|
|
WesP
Posts: 2451
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
|
quote:
WARREN: What about America?
> And NOW Obama starts talking about "we" - as in Americans, AS HE WAS ASKED<
OBAMA: I think America's greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we still don't abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me, and that notion of -- that basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to, you know, not having -- not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class. There's a pervasive sense, I think, that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of us. <
quote:
You're quite welcome - pointing out the lapses of knowledge in Obama-bashers has turned into a full-time hobby, and one always appreciates acknowledgement that the education is 'taking'.
Now, if you could only refrain from making yet another innuendo-based attack on Obama as a smokescreen to cover your retreat from being busted on your first false attack upon him..
Stop and be logical for a moment. He did not concede your point. In fact, YOU showed specifically where he projected his own failings on the rest of America.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them! 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:03:19 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of us.
WEll he is right there, not only do we not spend enough time OR money on helping the poor, we look with glee at those starving babies, thinking they DESERVE it.
I'll say it again,
WE have become a fat bloated nation. Greedy and uncaring!
AS my Dad says, getting fattened for the slaughter.
That's why a little part of me wishes he would become president, he will do a Robin Hood on some of these folks!
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:04:51 PM
|
|
|
huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
^^^the sad thing is that, when one makes a dollar, one loses a dollar...
when someone enters the middle class, one is going to the lower class...
This is NOT true. Wealth is created - it is not stolen.
The only case in which wealth is transferred is through government action - like welfare. (I am not arguing against using welfare to help the poor.)
The free market creates wealth.
yeah...but i am considering net worth in the world as a whole...
But again, net worth comes with human effort.
All the oil in the ground under Saudi Arabia, for example, is not worth much unless human effort is exerted to extract that oil.
true...and i cede that point...
do you believe everybody can be rich then (in terms of money and in being in the upper class)???
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:16:22 PM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
true...and i cede that point...
do you believe everybody can be rich then (in terms of money and in being in the upper class)???
I believe that there are situations beyond the control of some which prevents an unlimited rise in social class. In most of the world, the main factor is the society they live in. I would admit that in the past, American society has placed huge barricades to minorities from climbing out of their poverty. I think Obama is clearly being dishonest claiming that this situation has not improved in his lifetime when he and his wife are shining examples of success in America today.
To answer your question, I would say there is very little standing in the way of people in America today from improving their lot in life. Becoming rich may require a certain amount of fortunate circumstances (luck) in addition to hard work.
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
