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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:22:49 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
WARREN: What about America?
> And NOW Obama starts talking about "we" - as in Americans, AS HE WAS ASKED<
OBAMA: I think America's greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we still don't abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me, and that notion of -- that basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to, you know, not having -- not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class. There's a pervasive sense, I think, that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of us. <
quote:
You're quite welcome - pointing out the lapses of knowledge in Obama-bashers has turned into a full-time hobby, and one always appreciates acknowledgement that the education is 'taking'.
Now, if you could only refrain from making yet another innuendo-based attack on Obama as a smokescreen to cover your retreat from being busted on your first false attack upon him..
Stop and be logical for a moment. He did not concede your point. In fact, YOU showed specifically where he projected his own failings on the rest of America.
Nobody tried to get back onto the Titanic.
Just sayin'.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:33:43 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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I think folks should remember two things:
1.) Not everyone is expecting people to read their 1040s when they file. It cost me about $700 to move from Chicago to New York, but I could only dig up about $400 in deductions that I could prove. Friends might laugh at me for being so cheap in my move if they saw the $400 figure, but I'm conservative with my tax returns and don't deduct stuff I don't have proof for (IE: stuff I paid cash for.)
2.) There is a 3% AGI floor for all itemized deductions (including charitable deductions) if you make a lot of money. Obama might have been doing his tax return at 11 PM on April 14th and realized he wasn't going to make the cut-off, so just stopped itemizing charitable deductions midway through the worksheet. Heck, you should see my tuition expense deduction forms!
The average American donates 1% of his income to charity. Christians are perhaps expected to donate 10% (I try and shoot for 10% of federal taxable income minus taxes), but since people on these forums have derided Obama as a non-Christian, 3% is either typical (for most church-attenders) or impressive (for non-Christians).
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:36:39 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I think folks should remember two things:
1.) Not everyone is expecting people to read their 1040s when they file. It cost me about $700 to move from Chicago to New York, but I could only dig up about $400 in deductions that I could prove. Friends might laugh at me for being so cheap in my move if they saw the $400 figure, but I'm conservative with my tax returns and don't deduct stuff I don't have proof for (IE: stuff I paid cash for.)
2.) There is a 3% AGI floor for all itemized deductions (including charitable deductions) if you make a lot of money. Obama might have been doing his tax return at 11 PM on April 14th and realized he wasn't going to make the cut-off, so just stopped itemizing charitable deductions midway through the worksheet. Heck, you should see my tuition expense deduction forms!
The average American donates 1% of his income to charity. Christians are perhaps expected to donate 10% (I try and shoot for 10% of federal taxable income minus taxes), but since people on these forums have derided Obama as a non-Christian, 3% is either typical (for most church-attenders) or impressive (for non-Christians).
Another possibility is that Obama, being a political figure, may have expected that someday his tax returns would be made public, and chose not to list all the charitable deductions which he could have.
Isn't there a Bible verse somewhere about not letting your right hand know when your left hand is giving, meaning "keep it quiet"?
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:41:42 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I think folks should remember two things:
1.) Not everyone is expecting people to read their 1040s when they file. It cost me about $700 to move from Chicago to New York, but I could only dig up about $400 in deductions that I could prove. Friends might laugh at me for being so cheap in my move if they saw the $400 figure, but I'm conservative with my tax returns and don't deduct stuff I don't have proof for (IE: stuff I paid cash for.)
2.) There is a 3% AGI floor for all itemized deductions (including charitable deductions) if you make a lot of money. Obama might have been doing his tax return at 11 PM on April 14th and realized he wasn't going to make the cut-off, so just stopped itemizing charitable deductions midway through the worksheet. Heck, you should see my tuition expense deduction forms!
The average American donates 1% of his income to charity. Christians are perhaps expected to donate 10% (I try and shoot for 10% of federal taxable income minus taxes), but since people on these forums have derided Obama as a non-Christian, 3% is either typical (for most church-attenders) or impressive (for non-Christians).
well, i dunno if obama is a christian (something between him and God anyway)...i don't know how he has some views and policy out there while calling himself a christian...but we are all not perfect until our death...
but, Obama is also a lawyer first off...he is not waiting til the last minute...most likely he has a personal accountant to take care of all of this for him...
but he also makes so much money...i don't believe the waiting til last minute deal for him...(of course all of this is hypothetical anyway...just tryin to follow logic predictably)...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:42:42 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I think folks should remember two things:
1.) Not everyone is expecting people to read their 1040s when they file. It cost me about $700 to move from Chicago to New York, but I could only dig up about $400 in deductions that I could prove. Friends might laugh at me for being so cheap in my move if they saw the $400 figure, but I'm conservative with my tax returns and don't deduct stuff I don't have proof for (IE: stuff I paid cash for.)
2.) There is a 3% AGI floor for all itemized deductions (including charitable deductions) if you make a lot of money. Obama might have been doing his tax return at 11 PM on April 14th and realized he wasn't going to make the cut-off, so just stopped itemizing charitable deductions midway through the worksheet. Heck, you should see my tuition expense deduction forms!
The average American donates 1% of his income to charity. Christians are perhaps expected to donate 10% (I try and shoot for 10% of federal taxable income minus taxes), but since people on these forums have derided Obama as a non-Christian, 3% is either typical (for most church-attenders) or impressive (for non-Christians).
Another possibility is that Obama, being a political figure, may have expected that someday his tax returns would be made public, and chose not to list all the charitable deductions which he could have.
Isn't there a Bible verse somewhere about not letting your right hand know when your left hand is giving, meaning "keep it quiet"?
quote:
Another possibility is that Obama, being a political figure, may have expected that someday his tax returns would be made public, and chose not to list all the charitable deductions which he could have.
Isn't there a Bible verse somewhere about not letting your right hand know when your left hand is giving, meaning "keep it quiet"?
The vast majority of Christians I know itemize charitable contributions when they can. I may be an Obama fan, but I doubt that he is this pure. I may be a liberal, but if the government gives me a tax break, I'm still going to take it if everyone else does!
Like most Americans, he is probably just lazy when he is putting the finishing touches on his tax return. If it's late at night on April 14th, I am not going to go digging up $6.53 checks.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:45:10 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I think folks should remember two things:
1.) Not everyone is expecting people to read their 1040s when they file. It cost me about $700 to move from Chicago to New York, but I could only dig up about $400 in deductions that I could prove. Friends might laugh at me for being so cheap in my move if they saw the $400 figure, but I'm conservative with my tax returns and don't deduct stuff I don't have proof for (IE: stuff I paid cash for.)
2.) There is a 3% AGI floor for all itemized deductions (including charitable deductions) if you make a lot of money. Obama might have been doing his tax return at 11 PM on April 14th and realized he wasn't going to make the cut-off, so just stopped itemizing charitable deductions midway through the worksheet. Heck, you should see my tuition expense deduction forms!
The average American donates 1% of his income to charity. Christians are perhaps expected to donate 10% (I try and shoot for 10% of federal taxable income minus taxes), but since people on these forums have derided Obama as a non-Christian, 3% is either typical (for most church-attenders) or impressive (for non-Christians).
The 3% AGI floor includes property taxes and mortgage interest.
It is pretty hard to believe Obama met the 3% AGI floor with donations alone.
Look at the OP. They barely gave $1000 to charity on over $250,000 income. That is less than 0.4%. Pretty cheap by any comparison - especially by someone preaching from Matthew about "the least of these".
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:46:08 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
but, Obama is also a lawyer first off...he is not waiting til the last minute...most likely he has a personal accountant to take care of all of this for him...
Hmmm. He sounds like one of my Dad's clients. Unless your accountant gets check copies from your bank automatically, you're still going to have to dig up receipts. Your accountant may be a tax expert, but he is not an expert on your charitable transactions throughout the year.
quote:
but he also makes so much money...i don't believe the waiting til last minute deal for him...(of course all of this is hypothetical anyway...just tryin to follow logic predictably)...
If most clients didn't wait until the last minute, my Dad wouldn't disappear for the two weeks before March 15th and April 15th.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:48:17 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Like most Americans, he is probably just lazy when he is putting the finishing touches on his tax return. If it's late at night on April 14th, I am not going to go digging up $6.53 checks.
A $6.53 check won't make a difference on a $250,000+ income.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 1:51:27 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Like most Americans, he is probably just lazy when he is putting the finishing touches on his tax return. If it's late at night on April 14th, I am not going to go digging up $6.53 checks.
A $6.53 check won't make a difference on a $250,000+ income.
Exactly.
In any case, it shows that Obama gave $60K in the most recent year covered (6% of AGI) and $77K the year before (4.7% of AGI). If Obama believes in after-tax tithing, he's basically doing something on the order of a tithe.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 2:02:47 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Like most Americans, he is probably just lazy when he is putting the finishing touches on his tax return. If it's late at night on April 14th, I am not going to go digging up $6.53 checks.
A $6.53 check won't make a difference on a $250,000+ income.
Exactly.
In any case, it shows that Obama gave $60K in the most recent year covered (6% of AGI) and $77K the year before (4.7% of AGI). If Obama believes in after-tax tithing, he's basically doing something on the order of a tithe.
I think we can concede that his giving is certainly more admirable since his political ambitions became more clear. Prior to 2005, the year he probably made the decision to run for the U.S. Senate, his giving did not match his rhetoric regarding his concern for "the least of these".
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 2:26:30 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Like most Americans, he is probably just lazy when he is putting the finishing touches on his tax return. If it's late at night on April 14th, I am not going to go digging up $6.53 checks.
A $6.53 check won't make a difference on a $250,000+ income.
Exactly.
In any case, it shows that Obama gave $60K in the most recent year covered (6% of AGI) and $77K the year before (4.7% of AGI). If Obama believes in after-tax tithing, he's basically doing something on the order of a tithe.
I think we can concede that his giving is certainly more admirable since his political ambitions became more clear. Prior to 2005, the year he probably made the decision to run for the U.S. Senate, his giving did not match his rhetoric regarding his concern for "the least of these".
Ok, well do we have any other years to go on? If these tax returns were selectively picked, there may be a reason they stopped in the year they did. Perhaps Obama gave more before then.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 2:32:55 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Like most Americans, he is probably just lazy when he is putting the finishing touches on his tax return. If it's late at night on April 14th, I am not going to go digging up $6.53 checks.
A $6.53 check won't make a difference on a $250,000+ income.
Exactly.
In any case, it shows that Obama gave $60K in the most recent year covered (6% of AGI) and $77K the year before (4.7% of AGI). If Obama believes in after-tax tithing, he's basically doing something on the order of a tithe.
I think we can concede that his giving is certainly more admirable since his political ambitions became more clear. Prior to 2005, the year he probably made the decision to run for the U.S. Senate, his giving did not match his rhetoric regarding his concern for "the least of these".
Ok, well do we have any other years to go on? If these tax returns were selectively picked, there may be a reason they stopped in the year they did. Perhaps Obama gave more before then.
It went back 7 years. How much proof do you need?
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 2:44:45 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
It went back 7 years. How much proof do you need?
Why don't we have 1999's returns? Did he make a big gift back then? I'm willing to accept the data is probably accurate, but the poster appears to have an anti-Obama bias, which may have skewed the data set a little.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 2:48:11 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
It went back 7 years. How much proof do you need?
Why don't we have 1999's returns? Did he make a big gift back then?
It would be interesting to know.
But your assertion of selectively picking returns is bogus. They went back 7 years, the same amount of time a typical audit would go.
Perhaps there are no older records available.
Perhaps Obama was deeply entrenched in his "selfish" stage of life until 2005 (when political ambition required a change) as he spoke about in his interview with Rick Warren.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 2:59:06 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
The vast majority of Christians I know itemize charitable contributions when they can. I may be an Obama fan, but I doubt that he is this pure. I may be a liberal, but if the government gives me a tax break, I'm still going to take it if everyone else does!
You are generalizing recklessly from your own experience and your assumed understanding of Obama's thought processes - and even so, acknowledging the possibility I raised.
Thanks.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 3:01:10 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
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This whole 'Obama is a tightwad' troll is falling apart faster than a speeding bullet.
Hint to Obama-bashers - time to make sure you've got enough lifeboats.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 3:04:01 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
This whole 'Obama is a tightwad' troll is falling apart faster than a speeding bullet.
Hint to Obama-bashers - time to make sure you've got enough lifeboats.
Hint to Obama kool-aide drinkers:
The giving Obama wants from you is higher taxes... not tax deductible donations.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 4:04:49 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
You are generalizing recklessly from your own experience and your assumed understanding of Obama's thought processes - and even so, acknowledging the possibility I raised.
Thanks.
I work at a financial firm and am surrounded by econ majors and a fair amount of greed. Our understanding of the market is that people generally act in their own self-interest, and that is how we understand most things that involve money.
Again, I am not aware of any Christians that do not claim the charitable gifts deduction on their tax return when they have the opportunity to.
quote:
Hint to Obama kool-aide drinkers:
The giving Obama wants from you is higher taxes... not tax deductible donations.
As long as we run balanced budgets, I really don't care.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 8/19/2008 4:17:04 PM >
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 4:05:17 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
This whole 'Obama is a tightwad' troll is falling apart faster than a speeding bullet.
Hint to Obama-bashers - time to make sure you've got enough lifeboats.
Hint to Obama kool-aide drinkers:
The giving Obama wants from you is higher taxes... not tax deductible donations.
Another oft-repeated assertion without the slightest proof provided to support it.
Tell me, o sage - what makes you think Obama favors higher taxes?
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 4:19:07 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1963
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Another oft-repeated assertion without the slightest proof provided to support it.
Tell me, o sage - what makes you think Obama favors higher taxes?
Because he favors balanced budgets.
Funding spending with lower taxes and deficits isn't funding spending with lower taxes. It's funding spending with lower taxes now and much higher taxes later.
Personally, I'd rather shell out for the spending now, or even better yet, start paying down the deficit by also cutting spending in areas that aren't needed to orderly, morally, and sustainably run the country.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 5:09:22 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Another oft-repeated assertion without the slightest proof provided to support it.
Tell me, o sage - what makes you think Obama favors higher taxes?
Because he favors balanced budgets.
Got it, balanced budgets bad. New taxes bad. therefore, balanced budgets = increased taxes.
Next.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 9:35:06 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2785
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
Obama might have been doing his tax return at 11 PM on April 14th
Sure. I am sure he and wifey have a bunch of CPAs working for them; he is foolish not to seek any deduction to which he is entitled. His concern for the poor is on the same level as the Breck Girl.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 10:04:41 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1029
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of us.
[/quote]
...and he's right.
Why are atrocities allowed to occur with our full knowledge in Dar Fur and other places deemed "not in our national interest"?
Why do thousands of people die every day from preventable desease and hunger?
.....because it's not important to us. Our national interest is code language for presevering our wealth and power (dressed up as "freedom" by some on the right).
In the end, I don't think God will be impressed with our excuses and arbitrary political boundries.
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 10:11:12 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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Why can't Bo just not have claimed everything. To me it's not giving if I get a tax break for it.
I don't have receipts for the money I hand to homeless, which I do all the time. I also don't keep receipts for the money I give to family members for help for things like food or bills.
Heck , the other day I was in the grocery store, a skinny white kid, I mean that boy was skinny, was asking the clerk while I was checking out how much one package of raman noodles was, I told him to just grab a case. I'll pay for them. I never turn any of it in. I would have to contact the charities that I do give to to get reciepts. And they are paid on a regular schedule.
I just don't do it, it's not giving to me. WE don't claim or deduct any of it. Ever. I don't have reciepts for most of our charitable giving.
I'm just glad to hear he at least sees the problem.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: America's problem, not mine - 8/19/2008 10:20:08 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1952
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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Since McCain essentially gave the same answer to the same question regarding America's moral failing, it would be interesting to know what percentage of the McCain family's annual income was donated to charity. John McCain has released his tax returns, but his wife has not.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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