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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 11:40:21 AM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
But, of course, he wants the help for the poor to come from the government... not himself personally. Gee, do you think that is what Jesus meant in Matthew 25:40?
I don't know... I think democratic governments, even democratic republican governments like the United States are strange beasts, insofar as people have a certain collective measure of control over them, and a certain connection to them. I don't know if you can make as clear a distinction between help from the government and help from an individual as you used to (say, 300+ years ago) be able to.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 11:43:08 AM
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huangshan
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I should say, I have a pretty big extended family that my parents haven't always gotten along great with.
I can sympathize pretty easily with someone who doesn't exactly feel close to a brother, given the circumstances.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 11:50:17 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7781
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
It is like the Obamamaniacs are also ashamed of their candidate's treatment of poor Brother George.
Yeah, it looks like Obama is not the only one who wants to forget him.
Perhaps he could make some extra cash speaking at the Republican convention?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:06:27 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
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From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I should say, I have a pretty big extended family that my parents haven't always gotten along great with.
I can sympathize pretty easily with someone who doesn't exactly feel close to a brother, given the circumstances.
But do you go before a large audience and proclaim the great moral failure of America is that we don't take care of "the least of these, my brothers"?
Doesn't that sound a little hypocritical, considering the circumstances?
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:23:24 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I should say, I have a pretty big extended family that my parents haven't always gotten along great with.
I can sympathize pretty easily with someone who doesn't exactly feel close to a brother, given the circumstances.
But do you go before a large audience and proclaim the great moral failure of America is that we don't take care of "the least of these, my brothers"?
Doesn't that sound a little hypocritical, considering the circumstances?
I was under the impression that the "my brothers" in the context in question is in reference to humanity in general...?
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:23:28 PM
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JimboFletch
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If he's half as smart as Billy Carter was (and that wasn't very), he should be able to parlay his brother's fame into a comfy nest egg.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:30:57 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I should say, I have a pretty big extended family that my parents haven't always gotten along great with.
I can sympathize pretty easily with someone who doesn't exactly feel close to a brother, given the circumstances.
But do you go before a large audience and proclaim the great moral failure of America is that we don't take care of "the least of these, my brothers"?
Doesn't that sound a little hypocritical, considering the circumstances?
I was under the impression that the "my brothers" in the context in question is in reference to humanity in general...?
How can you speak with any moral clarity of humanity in general when the situation exists in stark detail within your own family. Seems to me your own family is the best place to start.
1 Timothy 5:8 reads, "But if someone does not provide for his own, especially his own family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."
If Obama wants to use scripture, in a church, to accuse America of moral failure, I would first suggest that he become familiar with ALL of scripture.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:35:14 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7781
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I was under the impression that the "my brothers" in the context in question is in reference to humanity in general...?
This reminds me of the old saying, "I love humanity - it's people I can't stand!"
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:36:20 PM
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huangshan
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I guess my argument is that the circumstances you mention don't make it necessarily hypocritical, as the circumstances are:
1. The passage in question isn't referring to "brothers" in the typical sense.
2. This is perhaps assuming too much, but I don‘t think Obama thinks of his half brother as family, given the circumstances of their history.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:37:44 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
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From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I guess my argument is that the circumstances you mention don't make it necessarily hypocritical, as the circumstances are:
1. The passage in question isn't referring to "brothers" in the typical sense.
2. This is perhaps assuming too much, but I don‘t think Obama thinks of his half brother as family, given the circumstances of their history.
But the rest of humanity are "his brothers?"... give me a break!
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:38:10 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I was under the impression that the "my brothers" in the context in question is in reference to humanity in general...?
This reminds me of the old saying, "I love humanity - it's people I can't stand!"
There is a wonderful quote from Douglas Adams about democracy that shares the essence, but I have a terrible mind for quotes and can't remember a single word of it.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:41:00 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I guess my argument is that the circumstances you mention don't make it necessarily hypocritical, as the circumstances are:
1. The passage in question isn't referring to "brothers" in the typical sense.
2. This is perhaps assuming too much, but I don‘t think Obama thinks of his half brother as family, given the circumstances of their history.
But the rest of humanity are "his brothers?"... give me a break!
I guess I don't understand the grievance. All of humanity seems like it would be included in "my brothers", so...?
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:42:53 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I guess my argument is that the circumstances you mention don't make it necessarily hypocritical, as the circumstances are:
1. The passage in question isn't referring to "brothers" in the typical sense.
2. This is perhaps assuming too much, but I don‘t think Obama thinks of his half brother as family, given the circumstances of their history.
But the rest of humanity are "his brothers?"... give me a break!
I guess I don't understand the grievance. All of humanity seems like it would be included in "my brothers", so...?
So how about Brother George?
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 12:57:31 PM
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huangshan
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Well, if my assumption about his "non-family" status to Obama is correct, than you could ask that question of essentially anyone "how about brother huangshan, or brother Dubya?". George does not necessarily warrant, given this assumption, any special attention any more than the rest of humanity, as compare to, say, Obama's wife and daughters, and the people who raised and cared for him.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 1:05:26 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
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From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Well, if my assumption about his "non-family" status to Obama is correct, than you could ask that question of essentially anyone "how about brother huangshan, or brother Dubya?". George does not necessarily warrant, given this assumption, any special attention any more than the rest of humanity, as compare to, say, Obama's wife and daughters, and the people who raised and cared for him.
Then why is Brother Barak in a church, preaching the moral failure of America? Clearly, he is on point with the basic platform of the Democrat party - redistribution of wealth. He really doesn't care for individuals. If he did, he would be sending some form of aide to Brother George... mo matter how meager. Do you realize how easy it is to send money to a relative in another country? I do. It is incredibly easy! In fact, I have family (in-laws) in Brother Barak's former home country of Indonesia. I don't wait for America to support them. I don't expect Indonesia to do so either.
It is one thing to mindlessly quote scripture whole pointing a finger of accusation at others. It is quite another to actually apply the teachings of scripture in your own life.
No, Brother Barak wants all of America to pay... and pay big! I recall his proposed foreign aide package will be tied to 0.7% of GNP. Does that sound compassionate to you?
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 1:11:23 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
He really doesn't care for individuals.
What about his wife and kids?
The rest of what you said ignored my point about George not being considered family. I suppose it's just an assumption on my part, but I think it's a pretty reasonable one.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 1:14:54 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
He really doesn't care for individuals.
What about his wife and kids?
The rest of what you said ignored my point about George not being considered family. I suppose it's just an assumption on my part, but I think it's a pretty reasonable one.
Halleluia, Brother Barak supports his wife and kids. What a wonderful display of Christian charity! Can I get an AMEN out there?
The rest of the world, in which Brother Barak wants to give 0.7% of GNP, are not related to him either. Why do they deserve MY tax dollars... yet poor Brother George deserves nothing from his own flesh and blood?
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 1:21:25 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
The rest of the world, in which Brother Barak wants to give 0.7% of GNP, are not related to him either. Why do they deserve MY tax dollars... yet poor Brother George deserves nothing from his own flesh and blood?
First, to answer your last three words, you're still ignoring the point about family status. Second, regarding everything before, you're losing me. Are you suggesting that you're selfish, or that Obama doesn't pay taxes, or...?
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 1:27:27 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I should say, I have a pretty big extended family that my parents haven't always gotten along great with.
I can sympathize pretty easily with someone who doesn't exactly feel close to a brother, given the circumstances.
But do you go before a large audience and proclaim the great moral failure of America is that we don't take care of "the least of these, my brothers"?
Doesn't that sound a little hypocritical, considering the circumstances?
I was under the impression that the "my brothers" in the context in question is in reference to humanity in general...?
How can you speak with any moral clarity of humanity in general when the situation exists in stark detail within your own family. Seems to me your own family is the best place to start.
1 Timothy 5:8 reads, "But if someone does not provide for his own, especially his own family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."
If Obama wants to use scripture, in a church, to accuse America of moral failure, I would first suggest that he become familiar with ALL of scripture.
Actually, and has already been pointed out, when Obama spoke of "we", he was speaking of Americans - because that was the question he was asked, a little fact you guys seem determined to ignore.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 1:36:40 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
The rest of the world, in which Brother Barak wants to give 0.7% of GNP, are not related to him either. Why do they deserve MY tax dollars... yet poor Brother George deserves nothing from his own flesh and blood?
First, to answer your last three words, you're still ignoring the point about family status. I did not ignore it. No one disputes Brother George's blood relative status. Why do you? They have the same father! quote:
Second, regarding everything before, you're losing me. Are you suggesting that you're selfish, or that Obama doesn't pay taxes, or...?
It is not selfish to not want taxes to be used foolishly.
I am suggesting, numerous times already, that Brother Barak has been ignoring the needs of his half-brother who lives in squalor - while at the same time preaching AMerica's great moral failure...
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 1:44:18 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Actually, and has already been pointed out, when Obama spoke of "we", he was speaking of Americans - because that was the question he was asked, a little fact you guys seem determined to ignore.
Since you were so intent on giving a grammer lesson, let me enlighten you further. 'We', as you pointed out, is 1st person plural. 1st person includes the speaker... Obama.
As many have pointed out on this thread, America has generously provided aide for nations throughout the world far more than any others. Could we provide more? perhaps. But that was not Obama's point.
Getting back to 1st person, the REAL moral failure (although the question addressed America) is really Obama's. He has a blood relative living in squalor who gets no help from Brother Barak. Now, he can quote Matthew 25:40 as much as he wants... but it is meaningless if he hasn't applied it to his own life first.
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RE: Introducing.... - 8/21/2008 1:45:01 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 766
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
The rest of the world, in which Brother Barak wants to give 0.7% of GNP, are not related to him either. Why do they deserve MY tax dollars... yet poor Brother George deserves nothing from his own flesh and blood?
First, to answer your last three words, you're still ignoring the point about family status. I did not ignore it. No one disputes Brother George's blood relative status. Why do you? They have the same father! quote:
Second, regarding everything before, you're losing me. Are you suggesting that you're selfish, or that Obama doesn't pay taxes, or...?
It is not selfish to not want taxes to be used foolishly.
I am suggesting, numerous times already, that Brother Barak has been ignoring the needs of his half-brother who lives in squalor - while at the same time preaching AMerica's great moral failure...
That seems a little convoluted, and not extremely useful as an issue. I think there are going to be plenty of people who have the understanding that some blood relatives aren't exactly family. And I think that where families are concerned, Obama's situation is viewed as head and shoulders above McCain's.
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