|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
|
[Poll]
|
Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness?
|
| disease |
|
| addiction |
|
| weakness |
|
| all three |
|
| none of the above |
|
Total Votes : 59
|
(last vote on : 10/6/2008 8:29:54 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 9:49:57 AM
|
|
|
bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
|
Gang,
My sister is an alcoholic who had been sober and active in AA for many years. She sponsors other women, and has that blue book memorized, lol.
I asked her about this, and she said "All three"
medical evidence is mounting that some people have a genetic disposition toward addicitons.
disease, in that is is not something that effects the majority of those who drink alcohol. It grabs some, but not all. Also it causes other diseases, and makes other physical problems worse. And the AMA has ruled it a disease, so officially it is.
weakness, because it is not something you normally stop without help.
She also added that the American binge drinking culture is perhaps another reason for the higher rate of alcoholism in the United States. You don't see it like this in many other countries.
Also, (side note)some Japanese have a genetic thing going on that makes them vomit whenever they drink. So while alcoholism is high in high stress Japan, some Japanses can't drink at all.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 9:58:18 AM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1979
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
disease, in that is is not something that effects the majority of those who drink alcohol.
This is very true. The BB breaks it down and describes the different types of drinkers, moderate, heavy and the true alcoholic.
With it's desription of the above, the reader is to then decide for himself, what category of drinker he or she falls into.
Having done this, the person then decides the best course of action for his treatment.
The moderate drinkers don't always fall into the category of severity. They can quit, without physical repercussions.
Heavy drinkers may experience some difficulty with physical symptoms but they can still quit.
The true alcoholic has lost all mental defense against the first drink. Choice is no longer an option for him.
This is a disease of the mind, first and foremost.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 10:24:23 AM
|
|
|
WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 25990
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Currently . . . San Francisco
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
Oh, I just read this somewhere else but it fits here, Quoting Sharon-Marie about a different issue entirely:
quote:
There's an old saying in Twelfth Step Recovery Groups . . . "Principles before Personalities" . . . which basically means to discuss the actual issue; don't make it about the person. My word; it's amazing what one finds tucked in a thread somewhere. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
The principals before personalities does not mean it's making it about the person. That's not at all what I said; in fact, I said it was about intentionally not making "something" about the person (as in purposing to discuss an issue and not the person or people behind an issue).
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
It means we hold our principals above anyone's personality because there are a vast number of personalities with a working group conscience. It also means what I said . . . that on any given "issue", one should stick to the issue and not make it "personal" against someone. For example, specific to this thread, there is a huge difference between someone saying, "Mortimer is an alcoholic and I abhor alcoholism" versus "I abhor Mortimer; he's an alcoholic" . . . ergo, Principles before Personalities.
I began attending 12 Step Groups when I was 8 years old; and regardless of what the group's "focus" was, "principles before personalities" was always discussed as having 2 distinct meanings.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Gang,
My sister is an alcoholic who had been sober and active in AA for many years. She sponsors other women, and has that blue book memorized, lol.
I asked her about this, and she said "All three"
medical evidence is mounting that some people have a genetic disposition toward addicitons.
disease, in that is is not something that effects the majority of those who drink alcohol. It grabs some, but not all. Also it causes other diseases, and makes other physical problems worse. And the AMA has ruled it a disease, so officially it is.
weakness, because it is not something you normally stop without help. Great post, Blue!
_____________________________
Hey there! This is Sharon-Marie, and you have reached my signature. I may not be here for a while; but if you'd like, please leave a message over in that ramblin’ thread.
.
.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 10:34:31 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
It begins as a weakness.
Becomes an addiction
Causes diseases.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 10:35:05 AM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1979
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
That's not at all what I said; in fact, I said it was about intentionally not making "something" about the person (as in purposing to discuss an issue and not the person or people behind an issue).
I honestly couldn't tell what you meant, only the quote was provided. No harm meant, I just wanted to clarify the meaning as it pertained to this thread, that's all. 
quote:
It also means what I said . . . that on any given "issue", one should stick to the issue and not make it "personal" against someone. For example, specific to this thread, there is a huge difference between someone saying, "Mortimer is an alcoholic and I abhor alcoholism" versus "I abhor Mortimer; he's an alcoholic" . . . ergo, Principles before Personalities.
I began attending 12 Step Groups when I was 8 years old; and regardless of what the group's "focus" was, "principles before personalities" was always discussed as having 2 distinct meanings.
No argument with this. It's spot on.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 1:30:03 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4092
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
|
It is first-off sin. Then it is habituation which is a disease of the mind. Then it is a physical addiction which is a disease of the body.
As some are more prone to chemical addictions than others, for those it would be a weakness. Others are weak in other areas of fighting sin.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 5:04:54 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1979
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Do you believe that all alcholics are the same then? And that anyone who might have a different take on this is not really an alcoholic?
No. that's not what I meant at all. I meant it in the context that I used it.
quote:
I can say that it is pointless to continue to convince some one of an argument, if they don't want to be convinced. I don't intend on going around and around trying to convince anybody that my way is what is best. Even though I believe that, some things just have to be experienced to be proven true.
Some people have to try things before they will believe them, whether that means they try taking six different berry extracts a day for a cure or the climb to the top of a mountain as a cure.
I just meant that I do believe my way (the 12 steps, AA) is the best for a person seeking recovery, that for them to believe it, they may have to try it or any other recovery program, for that matter.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 6:01:34 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10593
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Do you believe that all alcholics are the same then? And that anyone who might have a different take on this is not really an alcoholic?
No. that's not what I meant at all. I meant it in the context that I used it.
quote:
I can say that it is pointless to continue to convince some one of an argument, if they don't want to be convinced. I don't intend on going around and around trying to convince anybody that my way is what is best. Even though I believe that, some things just have to be experienced to be proven true.
Some people have to try things before they will believe them, whether that means they try taking six different berry extracts a day for a cure or the climb to the top of a mountain as a cure.
I just meant that I do believe my way (the 12 steps, AA) is the best for a person seeking recovery, that for them to believe it, they may have to try it or any other recovery program, for that matter.
I'm still confused. I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. You really don't believe that your way is the only way do you? Don't get me wrong, I think 12 Steps is a great program, but get 5 recovered alcoholics/experts in a room and you'll hear 5 different theories on the causes, factors and treatments for alcoholism and all will have folks they can point to where x worked and y didn't or y worked and x didn't. Why? Because there is no cookie cutter approach to alcoholism. It'd be great if there was, but there simply isn't.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 6:12:31 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1979
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
I'm still confused. I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. You really don't believe that your way is the only way do you?
For a solid sobriety, yes, I do.
quote:
Because there is no cookie cutter approach to alcoholism. It'd be great if there was, but there simply isn't.
Not to alcoholism, to recovery.
I am viewing it like milk. I say vitamin D is the best there is, someone else will say that 2% is the best there is.
Vitamin D is my preference, so of course I like it better.
I will not tell you or anyone else they can't get sober by other means, because they can.
I've tried rehab and AA. AA is what worked for me, so do I highly favor and suggest it? Of course. Just like people who prefer 2% milk favor and highly suggest it.
Did that help? I certainly am not trying to come across as a know it all, because I just don't. Given the choices, I will recommend AA over everything else.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 6:21:01 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10593
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
I understand being very enthusiastic about AA - I do agree it's a great program. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that there is only one way to get sober and stay sober. I know many folks who got sober and stayed sober in other ways (and are still sober 20+ years later).
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 6:30:46 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10593
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
I'm still confused. I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. You really don't believe that your way is the only way do you?
For a solid sobriety, yes, I do.
But then you say this. That's why I'm confused. I'm not trying to be difficult, just having a hard time following.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 8:38:20 PM
|
|
|
eaglelady11
Posts: 352
Joined: 7/20/2005
Status: offline
|
as a recovering alcoholic, I don't think it is a weakness, I think it is a disease and an inherited one or it could be a sin that I picked up form my earthly father. At any rate, I had to go into AA and work a 12 step program not only to stop drinking, but also to learn how to live. Not that the church and the bible doesn't do that for me, but AA gave me some more space amd well, worked for me.
it isn't a weakness; that is the misunderstanding of those who don't have it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 8:41:41 PM
|
|
|
WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 25990
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Currently . . . San Francisco
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
That's not at all what I said; in fact, I said it was about intentionally not making "something" about the person (as in purposing to discuss an issue and not the person or people behind an issue).
I honestly couldn't tell what you meant, only the quote was provided. No harm meant, I just wanted to clarify the meaning as it pertained to this thread, that's all.
quote:
It also means what I said . . . that on any given "issue", one should stick to the issue and not make it "personal" against someone. For example, specific to this thread, there is a huge difference between someone saying, "Mortimer is an alcoholic and I abhor alcoholism" versus "I abhor Mortimer; he's an alcoholic" . . . ergo, Principles before Personalities.
I began attending 12 Step Groups when I was 8 years old; and regardless of what the group's "focus" was, "principles before personalities" was always discussed as having 2 distinct meanings.
No argument with this. It's spot on.
No harm taken.
_____________________________
Hey there! This is Sharon-Marie, and you have reached my signature. I may not be here for a while; but if you'd like, please leave a message over in that ramblin’ thread.
.
.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 9:36:54 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1979
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Really, it is more like just existing.
Yes, existing.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 9:41:29 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1979
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Um. Non-alcoholics understand that quite well.
No offense intended but how can you know what our existence is/was like. Or what re learning to live is like?
Do you know what it's like to have a career for many years, get sober and suddenly you can't function in your job because you don't know how?
Or having to re-learn how to cook?
Or even how to be intimate with another human being?
I mean really, is that something you know?
It's very different living it than it is to be a spectator.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
