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RE: What exactly is justice? - 8/27/2008 1:52:54 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1076
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Day before yesterday here in MN a man was sentenced for killing his six year old som while turkey hunting. The man had alcohol and marijuana in his system at the time and the kid did not follow his instructions: to sit there and remain still. On a talk radio station in the twin cities the host was asking viewersfor their opinions on what the sentence should be. he made his opinion known that he felt the man did not need to sit in a jail cell for an extended period of time, that the jail cell should be reserved for predatory type offenders or those who sell dope to kids. It was interesting to listen to the callers as the majority of callers seemed to think that the crime was heinous enough that the guy deserved to be in a cell for many years. When pressed as to why thet thought the way they did, most of the rationale was emotional reasoning.
It makes me wonder if we don't have the highest incarceration rate because of the emotioanl reasoning that goes into the laws we draft. The politicians pander to these emotions promising to get tough on crime and then create laws where we end up locking up large segments of the population under the guise of rehabilitation. having worked in corrections for many years, I can attest to the fact that rehabilitation is not the main goal of the system. The main goal becomes getting one out so another can come in and fill the bed.
OUr emotional reasoning all too often leaves the mercy out of justice. It becomes lock em up so they're out of sight, out of mind. To me, justice is about restoration. Restoring the victim and the offender. Restoring the victim to help them become a functioning member of the community and restoring the offender to becoming a productive member of the community.
How do you restore a boy who has been murdered?
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 8/27/2008 3:17:59 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 7939
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quote:
What exactly is justice?
I got hit in the face with a dodgeball once, and I yelled, "that's injustice!"
So, the opposite of that.
_____________________________
The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 8/27/2008 3:22:59 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3159
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Okay, so the opposite is to hit someone else in the face? Or be hit in the back of the head? Or not get picked to play in the first place? Please clarify, DPR.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 8/28/2008 7:22:25 AM
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LastofAll
Posts: 37
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If it be a matter of God, His justice is exactly agreeable with the law of equity, it is absolutely fair, for example; if we forgive, He will forgive us, but if we do not forgive others, then He will not forgive us, and this is exact justice. But as for the case you speak of, we know of One who took upon Himself our crimes, and paid the price, which we are exceedingly thankful for; because He took the wrong for another: was this justice? Are we deserving to not have to pay for our crime called sin? This secular world´s justice is based upon compromise, which allows excuse. Heavenly justice does not compromise, and allows no excuse.
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 8/28/2008 12:19:25 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1664
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
How do you restore a boy who has been murdered?
There are more victims than the deceased. LIke all victims of murder, there are mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, and a plethora of extended family members who ar victims of the crime.
In the particular situation I refered to I think we have another question to ask. Are we mad at this careless father or do we fear him?
I don't know about you, but after having written countless pre-sentence reports to the court for nearly every imaginable offense I have come to the conclusion that, far too frequently, we lock up those we're mad at while letting those we fear walk the streets to strike again.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 9/16/2008 4:37:35 PM
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kd4hvz
Posts: 28
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Bedford, VA
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quote:
In a criminal case, as the OP eluded to this is not the case. Suppose the police took the daughters confession without looking further into the matter. Further suppose there was a trial and a conviction. What if the daughter had been sentenced to death. All this for a crime she did not commit. The only thing she was guilty of was loving and trying to protect her mother. Although admirable it is not justice.
It seems to me that if someone can choose to pay a fine for someone that choosing to go to jail for someone is no different. In either case (the daughter in this case) may choose to, out of love, pay the debt for her mother. The only issue I would have is the lying to cover for the mother.
While it seems so wrong to us for an innocent person to willingly take the wrap for a guilty person, it is also exactly what Christ did for all of us who call Him our Saviour.
_____________________________
-Michael in beautiful Bedford, VA
[http://www.kd4hvz.com/]
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 9/16/2008 6:00:31 PM
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KuKu
Posts: 897
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From: Somewhere out there
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessed_every_day
quote:
It's a tough question to answer. On the one hand, I think that a person ought to get what they deserve. On the other hand, my eternal hope is based on the opposite of that
The USA population in general seems to obsessed with obtaining "justice". (Just watch any prime-time TV crime show) Even most Christians strongly demand "justice". I find this confusing, especially for Christians, as "justice" for all of us would be going to Hell for our sins. Why is it OK for Christians to demand justice for someone else's action but ask God for mercy and forgiveness for their own actions?
-B
This is an interesting response, that I hope I am misunderstanding. The rapist should then go free, the murderer stay out on the streets, if someone robs your home, they should be able to just walk away with your stuff. And that is because we are Christians?
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 9/17/2008 1:48:06 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KuKu
This isn't meant to be a debate thread nearly so much as a share your thoughts thread... You are welcome to agree or disagree, but please try to do it civilly...
Last night on a television show, a woman confessed to a crime when she realized that her mother had been the criminal. A detective figured out the real situation and the mother was arrested.
My simple question. Had the daughter taken the rap and served the corresponding sentence, would justice have been served? Why or why not?
No it would not have been justice. It would not be just for the daughter to take the rap for her mother because the daughter didn't do it. It wouldn't have been just for the detective to arrest the daughter knowing she didn't do it. It would not be justice because an innocent would be put away for a guilty person and society would not be protected.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 9/17/2008 2:14:58 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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Justice
1 a: the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments b: judge c: the administration of law ; especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity2 a: the quality of being just, impartial, or fair b (1): the principle or ideal of just dealing or right action (2): conformity to this principle or ideal : righteousness c: the quality of conforming to law3: conformity to truth, fact, or reason : correctness
Exodus 23:5-7
5 If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it. 6 "Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits. 7 Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty.
Leviticus 19:15
15 " 'Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.
Romans 3:21-26
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 9/17/2008 2:23:23 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
It's a tough question to answer. On the one hand, I think that a person ought to get what they deserve. On the other hand, my eternal hope is based on the opposite of that
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessed_every_day
The USA population in general seems to obsessed with obtaining "justice". (Just watch any prime-time TV crime show) Even most Christians strongly demand "justice". I find this confusing, especially for Christians, as "justice" for all of us would be going to Hell for our sins. Why is it OK for Christians to demand justice for someone else's action but ask God for mercy and forgiveness for their own actions?
-B
It is right to want justice because that is what God wants. We could ask for justice and at the same time ask God to have mercy. We also ask for mercy and forgiveness for others but forgiveness doesn't mean all is OK. I can forgive someone for shooting me but that doesn't me I wouldn't want them to go to jail.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 10/9/2008 1:32:03 PM
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godsman67
Posts: 17
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I posted a thread of is it moral to make a person pay for his crime long after the sentence is over. As I posted in that thread I read an article of a person being placed on the sex offender registry for urinating or mooning. But yet the prostitute,pimp,or "john" does not have to register. I thought the offender registry was for the worst of the worst. So is that "equal justice under the law"?
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RE: What exactly is justice? - 10/9/2008 6:39:41 PM
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SuccessinTruth
Posts: 76
Joined: 9/3/2008
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The morally right thing to is to tell the truth. And don't forget that television is television, they like to set up issues to sidetrack us from the truth. As far as our justice system goes, I don't think it's nearly as bad as the movies would have us believe. But we do live in a corrupt world, there is no perfect justice except with God. BTW, in our justice system, a man is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Some people take that to mean that they are innocent, even if they are released on a technicality. It would be good to remember that we're only innocent until we do something wrong, whether we're caught, convicted, imprisoned or not.
_____________________________
May we Glorify the Lord in all that we say and do
SuccessinTruth
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