RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?help me
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 10:18:40 AM
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JimboFletch
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All I know on the issue is what Jesus said, "For of such is the Kingdom of Heaven." It would seem odd to me that Jesus would use excluded ones as the prime examples of the Kingdom citizens.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 11:09:40 AM
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drmark
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quote:
All I know on the issue is what Jesus said, "For of such is the Kingdom of Heaven." It would seem odd to me that Jesus would use excluded ones as the prime examples of the Kingdom citizens. However, many commentators point out that Matt 19:14 uses the prepositional phrase "of such" (Greek twn toioutwn) to suggest it is the nature or character of a child (childlike humility as seen in Matt 18:4) that will be reflected in Heaven, not just the fact that such a one is prepubertal. Could the age of accountability then be the age at which a child loses their humble character?
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 12:11:38 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
We should leave them to the mercy of a loving God.
I used to wonder about all the theology involved in this question. I woke up one morning feeling exhausted by this and a host of other questions. I sat down, took a deep breath, and came to the following realization. God is just, but God is also good. He is love, and he is trustworthy.
If that much is true, then I really don't need to worry about it. God will provide for them in a way that is good and trustworthy.
I don't know the answer to the question, but I know God. And he is good.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 12:12:38 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
All I know on the issue is what Jesus said, "For of such is the Kingdom of Heaven." It would seem odd to me that Jesus would use excluded ones as the prime examples of the Kingdom citizens.
Interesting point.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 12:29:50 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10057
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
We should leave them to the mercy of a loving God.
I used to wonder about all the theology involved in this question. I woke up one morning feeling exhausted by this and a host of other questions. I sat down, took a deep breath, and came to the following realization. God is just, but God is also good. He is love, and he is trustworthy.
If that much is true, then I really don't need to worry about it. God will provide for them in a way that is good and trustworthy.
I don't know the answer to the question, but I know God. And he is good.
Another good and honest answer. Thanks BT
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Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 12:44:22 PM
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GroupW
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Honest, yes. Good? I don't know. I suspect that if I had a baby that passed away, that I might not find the answer 100% comforting. It's just the best answer that I have.
Thank God I've never have been tested on it!
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 2:24:41 PM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Honest, yes. Good? I don't know. I suspect that if I had a baby that passed away, that I might not find the answer 100% comforting. It's just the best answer that I have.
Thank God I've never have been tested on it!
Honesty still prevails in your posts. I said earlier in this thread that I would find comfort in believing my child was in heaven. I don't know if it will be an issue when I get there but it makes me feel better while I am still here.
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Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 3:15:25 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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I have often thought and have even occasionally said that so many of the questions that we have here on earth will be very moot points in Heaven.
If someone finds comfort in believing something to which no Scriptural answer can definitively be found, then where's the harm?
Especially in regards to what happens to babies after they die.
I think stars are in order for Kate, Sam's and BT's posts.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 3:46:00 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
This thread has really bothered me. There are those that say Yes babies go to heaven and there are those that say no babies don't go to heaven. There has been at least one that said babies go to hell.
Who has said no babies go to heaven?
Actually what you have is one group says babies as a group up to some never mentioned age are granted automatic salvation...
The other group believes babies like anyone can be saved according to the will and purpose of God... That would have some babies going to heaven, not all of them as a group apart from mankind...
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John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 3:47:26 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
What age is that? God knows every child's heart, SIH. Your theology above all others must acknowledge that fact!
How does your get past that fact that one must be born again?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 3:52:23 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
All I know on the issue is what Jesus said, "For of such is the Kingdom of Heaven." It would seem odd to me that Jesus would use excluded ones as the prime examples of the Kingdom citizens.
No group is excluded... No more than a group is saved apart from those God has raised from the dead. Christ used children as the example because they need everything and have little or nothing to offer in return... What do we have to offer God that He didn't have to first give us?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 3:56:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
I have often thought and have even occasionally said that so many of the questions that we have here on earth will be very moot points in Heaven.
If someone finds comfort in believing something to which no Scriptural answer can definitively be found, then where's the harm?
Especially in regards to what happens to babies after they die.
There is no harm in believing all babies go to heaven, though I believe if it's taught as biblical fact that is another story...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 4:18:12 PM
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drmark
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quote:
How does your get past that fact that one must be born again? I'm more than certain that the God who raised Jesus from the tomb is more than capable of regenerating an infant. Did you not read my post #9? The operational term is "graciously efficacious"!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 5:03:34 PM
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frankman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Only if you can remove little infants from mankind, which is said to be sinful and fall short of the glory of God... As well... Christ was adamant that one must be born again to see the Kingdom...
True, little infants are born sinful like all of us. In a way that makes them as lost as all of us, in which case they too would deserve hell. However we have to remember we have a God who is full of mercy and grace. So if infants are in heaven it is not because they`re perfect, innocent or sinless, but because of God`s amazing grace.
Until children are capable of understanding the fact that they need a Savior, how can they reject His grace by committing the sin of unbelief?
I believe the age of accountiblity may very with each child, depending on their level of their learning ability. If aborted babies will all be in heaven I`m not sure. I like to think so because God`s plan for our life begins at conception according to Jer.1:5. "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart". God`s will for all men is for them to be saved according to 1 Tim.2:4. "who wants all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth".
 Praise God we have a merciful and gracious God.
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"The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." Isa. 40:8 Greetings- Frankman
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 5:54:10 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 9489
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
I used to wonder about all the theology involved in this question. I woke up one morning feeling exhausted by this and a host of other questions. I sat down, took a deep breath, and came to the following realization. God is just, but God is also good. He is love, and he is trustworthy.
If that much is true, then I really don't need to worry about it. God will provide for them in a way that is good and trustworthy.
I don't know the answer to the question, but I know God. And he is good.
Another good and honest answer. Thanks BT
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Honest, yes. Good? I don't know. I suspect that if I had a baby that passed away, that I might not find the answer 100% comforting. It's just the best answer that I have.
Thank God I've never have been tested on it!
BT, as someone whose 3 1/2 month old son died 25 yrs ago, that is the only answer I've ever had either. It IS honest and it IS good. 
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 7:03:04 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
BT, as someone whose 3 1/2 month old son died 25 yrs ago, that is the only answer I've ever had either. It IS honest and it IS good.
Wow. I never knew. I'm not sure I'd survive that.
It explains something to me though. Everywhere I go, I run into people that just seem to "get it." Those are the people I respect & enjoy the most.
Invariably, those same people have undergone something traumatic that makes them what they are. I should have suspected you were one of "those people". 
I'm truly sorry for what you went through 25 years ago, but I'm glad you emerged on the other side with the perspectives that you have. I wish you hadn't gone through all that, but selfishly I have to say that I sincerely enjoy the person that's resulted from all of it.
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 7:18:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
How does your get past that fact that one must be born again? I'm more than certain that the God who raised Jesus from the tomb is more than capable of regenerating an infant. Did you not read my post #9? The operational term is "graciously efficacious"!
Him being capable is never the argument... He can and does but to say babies as a group are saved isn't founded in the bible...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 7:25:19 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
It explains something to me though. Everywhere I go, I run into people that just seem to "get it." Those are the people I respect & enjoy the most.
Invariably, those same people have undergone something traumatic that makes them what they are. I should have suspected you were one of "those people".
I'm truly sorry for what you went through 25 years ago, but I'm glad you emerged on the other side with the perspectives that you have. I wish you hadn't gone through all that, but selfishly I have to say that I sincerely enjoy the person that's resulted from all of it.
BT
I very much agree with this.
{{{Lioness}}}, my respect for you continues to grow.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 7:25:31 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
How does your get past that fact that one must be born again? I'm more than certain that the God who raised Jesus from the tomb is more than capable of regenerating an infant. Did you not read my post #9? The operational term is "graciously efficacious"!
Him being capable is never the argument... He can and does but to say babies as a group are saved isn't founded in the bible...
Of course, finding a reference to say that he doesn't provide for them is an equal exercise in futility. In the end, you are left with God's love, goodness and grace. It's enough for me.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 7:26:32 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
How does your get past that fact that one must be born again? I'm more than certain that the God who raised Jesus from the tomb is more than capable of regenerating an infant. Did you not read my post #9? The operational term is "graciously efficacious"!
Him being capable is never the argument... He can and does but to say babies as a group are saved isn't founded in the bible...
Of course, finding a reference to say that he doesn't provide for them is an equal exercise in futility. In the end, you are left with God's love, goodness and grace. It's enough for me.
BT, my respect for you continues to grow, as well.
Excellent post.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 7:28:10 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: frankman
True, little infants are born sinful like all of us. In a way that makes them as lost as all of us, in which case they too would deserve hell. However we have to remember we have a God who is full of mercy and grace. So if infants are in heaven it is not because they`re perfect, innocent or sinless, but because of God`s amazing grace.
Ok... Why are you applying God's amazing grace to them in such a manner that they are granted salvation apart from the rest of mankind? Because you as you stated...
In your first post you said,
Our God is a loving and just God and will not sent anybody to hell unless they deserve to go there. Little infants are innocent angels in God`s eyes.
quote:
Until children are capable of understanding the fact that they need a Savior, how can they reject His grace by committing the sin of unbelief?
Wouldn't it be better to either hope they die and or keep the truth from them as long as possible so they stand a greater chance of being automatically saved?
quote:
I believe the age of accountiblity may very with each child, depending on their level of their learning ability.
Now we have salvation hinging on intellect not God's amazing grace... If the above is true it would be better for my children to have died at birth and not risk going to hell than to live... That is why I don't believe children are automatically saved...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 8:10:50 PM
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JamesL5
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If this statement is true "all babies go to heaven," then I guess my 2 kids are better of dead than alive. If this sounds absurd, maybe because it is........... 
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 8:49:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5388
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Of course, finding a reference to say that he doesn't provide for them is an equal exercise in futility. In the end, you are left with God's love, goodness and grace. It's enough for me.
Given what we know about salvation does one have to find a reference to say that He doesn't provide for them?
It's no small thing to claim babies and or infants up to some never established age are saved. Normally when one makes such a claim the onus is on them to support their claim pretty thoroughly. All of what is known about salvation is tossed aside in order to grant them salvation which casts a good amount of doubt over the claim from the start...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 8/26/2008 8:55:30 PM
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bluestone
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The very idea of infants, unable to speak or voice a trust in Jesus..who in fact have no knowledge of Him are writhing in horrible pain in the pits of hell is just ludicrous.
That would give God the characteristics of Satan. Evil and unforgiving.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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