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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/25/2008 11:58:07 PM
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rlj
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quote:
So, then, what is walking like a chicken to us unless it is a sign of something moving among the people?
The more I think of it the more that sounds like someone on an acid trip.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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[Deleted] - 8/26/2008 12:24:43 AM
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/26/2008 5:34:40 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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""Ah, but that isn't a valid referrence because people were making fun of these guys for speaking in a different language!"" (/end snarkiness)
Yes, I have heard this argument before...... people like the OP are convinced that things described by Joyner and Hill as mere eastern meditative devices designed specifically to shut off the mental capabilities................................. forgetting things like how when the Shekinah fell in the temple of Solomon the priests couldn't stand to minister any more.
So... I'm going to make a predicton that this conversation is going to wander around a bit, spin around in little circles, end up exactly where it started, and take up at least 15 pages...
Adam
**This is me... not being impressed...**
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/26/2008 8:57:54 PM
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turtleman
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Adam I think you are right. This thread will meander around for a while then end up where it started. I think I'll sit this one out.
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/26/2008 9:48:49 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 982
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quote:
Just think of the trance the four living creatures must be in by now. Eh, all they can say is "Holy Holy Holy" over and over again... sounds like eastern Mantra to me......quote:
Adam I think you are right. This thread will meander around for a while then end up where it started. I think I'll sit this one out. Yay! Bonus points for me!
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/27/2008 7:56:06 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6071
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: turtleman
Adam I think you are right. This thread will meander around for a while then end up where it started. I think I'll sit this one out.
If you disagree with the content, why not address some of the points presented? I would like to hear a self-professes Christian defend the barnyard animal antics, jerking, chicken walking, etc..
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/27/2008 9:14:00 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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So...... you want me to waste your time telling you things that I have (most likely) already said, about a topic which you have already made your mind up about, which we have already argued over? This ain't the Christmas thread, you know......
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/28/2008 8:13:11 AM
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earthless
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Adam,
If the Bible is God's Word and it is absolute. It shouldn't be that hard to show us how those things seen in the occult are genuine movements of the Holy Spirit.
The goal line is not a moving target.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/28/2008 11:22:56 AM
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kvsmm
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I think we should all be very careful and not make people believe that every encounter with God is in fact a sham.
I have been healed. I have been delivered. I have experienced a love so profound that it changed the entire course of my life. None of the encounters happened in an organized church. All were alone after much prayer, scripture reading, and earnestly seeking the will and favor of the Lord.
I have been to one revival that started everything else, and that was in Philly in the late 1950's when I hear Billy Graham say come to the alter, as George Beverly Shay sang, Just as I Am. I can assure, there was nothing demonic coming from either gentleman. That day, gave me a compass for the next 50 years of my life.
Not every revival is bogus, and not every minister who preaches getting close to God, or who sings hymns is out to harm anyone. He is still a God of awesome power, and awesome love.
_____________________________
"If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you read this in English, thank a soldier."
Kvsmm
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/28/2008 12:11:46 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3543
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From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
The goal line is not a moving target.
This is my greatest love of God and His Word.
It says what it means, means what it says, and never changes.
I can always know where I stand before my Creator.
Sin is sin, and doesn't change with the whim of our politicians.
I'm amazed in other forums people think they can make amendments
to God's Word like we might do to our Constitution. In that regard,
look at us now. Well, I can we can say the same thing about organized
and un-organized church...........look at us now.
Thanks for the testimony kvsmm............I give thanks God moved in your life
in such a fashion.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/28/2008 8:16:43 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Thanks for the testimony kvsmm............I give thanks God moved in your life
in such a fashion.
Amen! Our God is an awesome God!
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/28/2008 9:23:12 PM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1126
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kvsmm
I think we should all be very careful and not make people believe that every encounter with God is in fact a sham.
I have been healed. I have been delivered. I have experienced a love so profound that it changed the entire course of my life. None of the encounters happened in an organized church. All were alone after much prayer, scripture reading, and earnestly seeking the will and favor of the Lord.
I have been to one revival that started everything else, and that was in Philly in the late 1950's when I hear Billy Graham say come to the alter, as George Beverly Shay sang, Just as I Am. I can assure, there was nothing demonic coming from either gentleman. That day, gave me a compass for the next 50 years of my life.
Not every revival is bogus, and not every minister who preaches getting close to God, or who sings hymns is out to harm anyone. He is still a God of awesome power, and awesome love.
To compare the work of Billy Graham to anything that the WOF movement does today is a great insult to the work of Billy Graham! In fact you do quite well to point out the difference between a TRUE revival/service (Graham) and the FAKE/COUNTERFEIT ones run by the WOF crowd.
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/28/2008 10:39:22 PM
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colliefan
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I do a regular bible study at NC's Central Prison for the processors and general population inmates. Tonight, the head chaplain told me a genuine move of God is taking place among the prison's death row - they call it Life Row because many find God there - population.
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/28/2008 11:40:28 PM
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rlj
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quote:
I do a regular bible study at NC's Central Prison for the processors and general population inmates. Tonight, the head chaplain told me a genuine move of God is taking place among the prison's death row - they call it Life Row because many find God there - population.
That's amazing.
I have a question for you though it's off topic though- How do you handle dealing with some of the people you have to deal with? I am sure you deal with everyone from repeat petty criminals to some pretty heavy duty stuff - nasty assaults and much worse. Speaking for myself I would find it very very difficult to deal with some of the worse types just because some of the behaviors would disgust me so much- like a pedophile type. I'm just wondering how you and the rest are able to deal with it?
I am going to guess it starts with some scripture memorization but if so what verses work best?
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 1:51:49 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 982
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From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:
Adam,
If the Bible is God's Word and it is absolute. It shouldn't be that hard to show us how those things seen in the occult are genuine movements of the Holy Spirit.
The goal line is not a moving target. Forgetting the tone here... Are you seriously asking me to waste your time telling you things that I have already said about a subject you have already made up your mind on? The idolization of Sola Scriptura that appears in much of the Western Church makes no doctrinal discussion "easy".
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 8:09:12 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6071
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
Adam,
If the Bible is God's Word and it is absolute. It shouldn't be that hard to show us how those things seen in the occult are genuine movements of the Holy Spirit.
The goal line is not a moving target. Forgetting the tone here... Are you seriously asking me to waste your time telling you things that I have already said about a subject you have already made up your mind on? The idolization of Sola Scriptura that appears in much of the Western Church makes no doctrinal discussion "easy".
Adam
So are you saying that the Bible's core truth's are not absolute? That experience and emotion (regardless of their biblical grounding or occultic connection) can be and are valid?
Have you allowed political correctness and subjectivism to seep into your biblical view?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 9:20:41 AM
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teclils
Posts: 110
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Honestly Earthless I think you just like to argue....
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 9:54:53 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2126
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quote:
That experience and emotion (regardless of their biblical grounding or occultic connection) can be and are valid?
Experience and the alleged lack of recording of the 9 sign gifts post 1st century are used to justify cessation of those gifts. Even though outside of the gospels and Revelation there is very little evidence of use of the detailed use of the sign gifts. If the 9 sign gifts ceased show me in the bible. If prophets ceased why didn't the apostles just come right out and say "soon prophets will cease and you will no that there are no prophecies" instead of "there will be false prophets".
Experience trumps "Sola Scriptura" when it comes to cessation.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 10:52:35 AM
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PatHarris
Posts: 215
Joined: 1/27/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
Adam,
If the Bible is God's Word and it is absolute. It shouldn't be that hard to show us how those things seen in the occult are genuine movements of the Holy Spirit.
The goal line is not a moving target. Forgetting the tone here... Are you seriously asking me to waste your time telling you things that I have already said about a subject you have already made up your mind on? The idolization of Sola Scriptura that appears in much of the Western Church makes no doctrinal discussion "easy".
Adam
For one who doesn't follow your views, please explain what constitutes making an idol of Sola Scriptura and why this is limited to the Western Church?
Thanks
_____________________________
So Christ has really set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 11:31:16 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1996
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Given that comment by Adam, I really doubt that he holds to Prima Scriptura, either, since that view holds that experiences, tradition, etc. can be valid but everything has to be evaluated according to its fidelity to what the bible teaches.
So, Adam, do your teachers at IHOP reject both Sola Scriptura and Prima Scriptura?
How does one evaluate whether some experience or teaching or practice is within the realm of Christian beliefs, or outside of it, if one rejects both Sola Scriptura and Prima Scriptura? Do groups like IHOP take a position along the lines of Roman Catholicism, where one submits to the interpretation of a leader over private interpretation of scripture?
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America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 1:35:46 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2126
Joined: 4/14/2005
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You all are putting an awful lot of words in Adam's mouth. His comment was:
quote:
The idolization of Sola Scriptura that appears in much of the Western Church makes no doctrinal discussion "easy".
Which isn't a rejection of SS it's merely a comment that it makes a doctrine discussion tough. As a matter of fact some of the most contentious discussions are one stop threaded such as women in the church.
Now one of the things mentioned in the OP has to do with whether or not acting like dogs, laughing like the 3 stooges or falling down have some kind of biblical basis. However to go that route (which I'm not but I'm using it as an example) where in the bible is Sunday School, Pastor's as leader of a church, elder boards as leaders of a church, daycares at church, churches investing in funds, standing still to do nothing but listen to sermons without giving any feedback or organs, pianos and choirs for a few examples? We use our own experience and the experiences of other christians to "justify" these. The charismatic experience, the extreme whatever experience that Earthless mentions and the "traditional" examples I have mentioned don't have their basis in SS or it is a hybrid of SS and experience which I guess makes it PS which is infinitely better than PMS?
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 3:54:37 PM
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TrustingGod
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There is a purpose to Sunday School, pastors as leaders, elder boards, etc.
What is the purpose of beign on all fours and barking like a dog? Why would God encourage us to act like something that is "lower" than people when throughout His word we are commanded to emulate Jesus. Now, if Jesus or Paul would have said, to show the Holy Spirit working through you, you will strut around like a chicken, I could get behind this. Instead I'm told to follow in these steps...those of Jesus.
I don't believe acting this way brings any glory to God.
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 4:07:44 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6071
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
Honestly Earthless I think you just like to argue....
It's a message board; a forum for discussion and the exchange of ideas.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Counterfeit Revival - 8/29/2008 4:36:10 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3543
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
From the Desk of Steve Shultz - The Nature of (False) Prophecy
obama link
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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