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[Poll]
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Do YOU believe in hell?
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Total Votes : 84
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(last vote on : 9/30/2008 4:23:20 PM)
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 2:26:43 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
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quote:
Truth evolves as you continue interpreting the Bible with the Bible.
Truth does not evolve - that implies a change in truth. Rather, our perception of truth changes as we grow to see more of it. Consider this analogy - you are in a darkened room. At the moment, you can see nothing. Then a little light enters the room, and you perceive your own hands. A little more light, and you notice the floor beneath you, a wall behind you, and some indistinct shape before you. A little more light, and the thing begins to take shape; you notice wheels, and a metallic gleam coming off it. Still more light, and you recognize that the thing before you is a farm tractor. Finally, with even more light, you see it is a John Deere tractor.
That tractor was there the whole time, but you didn't recognize it for what it was until there was enough light to see by. In the same way, truth doesn't change, but we don't fully grasp it all at once.
Now, as for a "spiritual" interpretation of the gates of Hades, I would say that Christ is referring to our enemies as Christians - not flesh and blood enemies, but spiritual ones. So Christ is letting us know that He is greater than any threat we may face. Again, no mention of being inside or outside of those gates is mentioned.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 2:34:00 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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Jesus said "The Gates of Hell (Hades).
Are you inside or outside those gates...do you know what those gates are?
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 2:37:37 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Are you inside or outside those gates...do you know what those gates are?
Since I would think of it as referring to the entrance into the land of the dead, I would say that, given my current state of being alive, I am outside.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 2:45:46 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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Then what does Hades = Hell mean in I Corinthians 15:55.
Guess what, if we have not put on the Lord Jesus...we are in the land of the dead.
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 2:49:19 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Then what does Hades = Hell mean in I Corinthians 15:55.
Guess what, if we have not put on the Lord Jesus...we are in the land of the dead.
Well, since I don't see the word Hades or Hell in 1 Corinthians 15:55, I'm not sure how to answer that.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 2:56:59 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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It's because the tranlators did not understand what Hades is either, so they place the word "grave" on Hades...some translations say death.
You have to have a Youngs Literal Translation or get an Interlinear Bible.
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:00:14 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
It's because the tranlators did not understand what Hades is either, so they place the word "grave" on Hades...some translations say death.
You have to have a Youngs Literal Translation or get an Interlinear Bible.
Or look it up in the Greek. Thanatos. It is consistently translated as death, not Hades. If you want to take it as meaning "Hades," that's your choice, but I don't see any textual support for such a translation.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:02:59 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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The greek reads, "Oh death where is thy sting, oh hades where is thy victory".
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:05:09 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
The greek reads, "Oh death where is thy sting, oh hades where is thy victory".
Which GNT are you reading from?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:12:42 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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Henrickson Interlinear
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:14:16 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Henrickson Interlinear
I'm unfamiliar with that version. I prefer Nestle-Aland. Do you have a link with an easily accessible version of that text?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:17:24 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:20:23 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
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*ahem* That isn't quite what I was after. I'm interested in an online version of the text itself, not a place from which to purchase a copy.
However, I am wary of it, seeing as how it bases its Greek off the textus receptus - a version known by most serious textual critics to be less desirable when one is seriously trying to get as close to the original autographs as possible.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:23:56 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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Then check it out in your own text...I am open to interjections.
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:29:31 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Then check it out in your own text...I am open to interjections.
I did. Thanatos is used twice.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:38:28 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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then were left with a translational glitch. Hades is used both in the Youngs Literal and Hendrickson. I will check out the Nestle-Aland...do you have an online for it?
To keep the discussion going. What is your answer to Revelation 20:14 Death and Hades were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:49:30 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
I will check out the Nestle-Aland...do you have an online for it?
I'm not sure if they use the entire Nestle-Aland, but greekbible.com at least treats 1 Cor. 15:55 in the same way.
quote:
What is your answer to Revelation 20:14 Death and Hades were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.
Revelation is a highly figurative book, in my opinion. That particular instance represents the greatest foe of our life here on earth (namely, our death) being done away with forever.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 3:53:33 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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what about Hades? That is the topic at hand.
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 4:00:51 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
what about Hades? That is the topic at hand.
Hades, in that instance, represented death also. The two are shown in conjunction throughout Revelation (see 1:18, 6:8, 20:13). It seems to be a place of the dead, but not an eternal place (see especially 20:13).
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 4:35:02 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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Mr Fribbles:
back to 1Cor 15:55 this is a quote of Hosea 13:14 which uses the word Sheol, which is translated Hades in the New Testament elsewhere. So i am inclined not to believe the transltion of Nestle-Aland.
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 4:39:00 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
back to 1Cor 15:55 this is a quote of Hosea 13:14 which uses the word Sheol, which is translated Hades in the New Testament elsewhere. So i am inclined not to believe the transltion of Nestle-Aland.
The two Hebrew words which are written as thanatos have similar meanings - the realm of the dead.
Anyhow, I don't see how it especially matters. 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 is speaking of the entire destruction of fear concerning death that should be present in the life of the believer, not eternal states.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 7:33:08 PM
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johnlowe11
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but where is hell?
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 7:34:15 PM
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johnlowe11
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sorry. i forgot to say i do believe in hell by the way. i imagine it to be a place where men and women are pulled apart by horses.
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RE: Do YOU believe in hell? - 8/28/2008 7:39:16 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: johnlowe11
but where is hell?
Washington, DC.
_____________________________
The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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