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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 4:13:14 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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Oddly, that is not what the Bible says.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 4:16:54 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1714
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Oddly, that is not what the Bible says.
Then what does it say?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 4:17:22 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 403
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This is pointless.....I am sure he cant answer the Job question because it is not from whatever website or book he read this idea from.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 4:21:05 PM
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Archangel10
Posts: 54
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I promised I would answer your simple Job question, when you tell me why Jesus called Peter, Satan. With your current ideology, you will not be able to answer why. So neither will I answer your question.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 4:22:13 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1714
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
With your current ideology, you will not be able to answer why.
Just because you don't agree with our answer does not mean that we did not answer.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 5:00:33 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1587
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Archangel10
In your walk with Jesus, you are called to put on the new man...does your old man seem to get in the way?
No, my old man lives a couple miles away, so dad and I don't really get to see one another that much except on weekends.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 5:07:52 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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Im definately NOT a universalist. They believe that the bible is not to be taken literally.
I definately believe the bible is to be taken VERY literally and if a person dosent - then thats their problem. For lack of a better explanation.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 7:15:27 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1261
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Ahh . . . Now I get it. Fortunately, I've never heard of Universalist or Damnationist, whatever. Actually, Jesus says He saw Satan fall from the sky. Luke 17:20. Also in Revelations 20:7-10 says Satan will be throne into the Lake of Fire. Jesus often talked about Hell through out the gospels. Unfortunately, Hell is a horrible place, a place we wish never existed. But if there was no hell or satan, then Jesus was a fool to die for us and rescue us from such a horrible place. Jesus said those who don't trust Him will be thrown into eternal darkness where there will gnashing of teeth. The gnashing of teeth and darkness is what He saved us from: Hell. YEs, it's nice to pretend Hell doesn't exist, but that's like pretending placing your hand in fire won't burn you. It's there and waiting for many.
kim
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 7:28:59 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1261
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Jesus called Peter Satan b/c, as MrFribbles said (I love your name!!) said, Jesus percieved that Satan was using Peter to try to pull Jesus away from the cross. Do you remember Luke 22:3?
Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.
Satan does influence folks, just as he did Peter. Ezekiel 28:11-19 talks about the devil before the fall of man and how satan fell. So yes, Satan does live and so does Hell. Again, we can bury our heads in the sand, but Satan still lives.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Archangel10
I promised I would answer your simple Job question, when you tell me why Jesus called Peter, Satan. With your current ideology, you will not be able to answer why. So neither will I answer your question.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 7:31:57 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
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I am very interested in what Archangel10 is saying. He is making me look at the Word from a different perspective.
It is possible to have a real hell, and a spiritual hell, ask someone who is messed up and addicted to heavy drugs. They are living in a kind of hell on earth. The cannot have harmony in life and enjoy what God has given - they are in a living hell.
This is just an example of the kinds of things this person is referring to.
I have never heard the two terms mentioned either, universalist and damnationist, or whatever the two terms were.
Whatever hell is we need saving from it, and Jesus came to give that to us through his way.
I am not supporting everything Archangel10 believes and wrote, I am saying that what he wrote makes you think and look at the Word in a new way, and I have gained by what he wrote, in my understanding of the scriptures. It has given more fullness to what is there.
I would like to further venture with saying this that it is possible that hell may not be a literal burning literal lake of literal fire, the scripture may mean other things, but whatever it is, the scripture is clear that IT IS, and
admonishes all to STEAR CLEAR.
I'm for avoiding it and for helping others to to do the same, through the bible marked ways.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 7:44:53 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
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reply to Archangel as to' why Jesus called Peter Satan ',
Satan is a hebrew word that means 'enemy'.
the devil is a greek word meaning slandered and false accuser, against God and men.
I think the reply you are looking for is this, that Jesus was addressing Peter's 'satanic' side, his lower natural part of himself that always was paying attention to the things of men and not paying attention to the things of God.
Peter tempted Jesus to not obey Father. This is satanic, he did it in a way that was probably even unknown or recognized by himself. He did it on impulse, a natural reaction, you are saying that Jesus addressed Peter's satanic side the part of him that was an enemy to God, and an enemy to Peter,
JEsus addressed the 'sin' that dwelt in Peter, the same 'sin' that indwelt Paul that he wrote about, saying "it is not I Paul who sinned, but it is the SIN that dwells in me, that sinned" paraphrase - mine.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 7:48:08 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1261
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um, no. Paul never said the Old man is the devil. That is unscriptual. Instead, Paul calls the "Old Man' our unsaved soul. Paul never meant the old man is the devil. Instead, he says in 2 thes 2:8-12: 2
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
2:10
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
2:12
and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness
If Paul meant the old man was the devil, then this verse makes no sense. The lawless one will be in accordance with the work of the old man displayed in all kinds of . . .
Jesus also said in mark 3:23: How can Satan cast out Satan? If Satan is the old man, then what Jesus is saying is how can the old man cast out the old man? Again, it makes no sense.
You stated "You can deny this all you want . . " But I'm beginning to question who is denying what? God's word states clearly there is a devil, there is a hell. If there is no hell or devil, then Jesus lied and Christianity is a crock.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Archangel10
The Devil = The Old Man = Adam = The Earthly Nature = Carnal Nature
Angels means "messangers". There are many messangers in the world and church emanating the carnal nature rather than the Holy Spirit.
You can deny this...and at the same time, its true anyway.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 7:48:46 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
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7:15-18) I do not do what I want to do but what I hate...it is not I who do it but the SIN which resides in me...no good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh...m, (sarx) from original
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 7:53:54 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1714
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
saying "it is not I Paul who sinned, but it is the SIN that dwells in me, that sinned" paraphrase - mine.
Then how can Jesus hold anyone accountable for their sins? After all, they're not sinning, it's their sin that's sinning. It would be silly to punish someone for something they didn't do.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 8:06:13 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1261
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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That's an interesting thought, but it doesn't really explain why Jesus was so adament about calling Peter, Satan. Jesus never said things unless He meant it. Jesus also said He saw Satan falling from the sky. I would think Jesus wouldn't have rebuked Peter so severely if He didn't perceive Satan using Peter. JEsus also told Peter in Luke 22:31 that the enemy or adversary was longing to shift him as wheat. But Jesus prayed that God would strengthen Peter. If we followed this thinking, then Jesus said, Peter, your old man flesh is longs to have you, that he may sift you as wheat. Again, this doesn't make sense. And Jesus used the Same greek Satan word throughout the gospels. So again, saying Jesus was addressing Peter's satan side really doesn't make much sense. But that's just my thoughts.
quote:
ORIGINAL: hellochurchld
reply to Archangel as to' why Jesus called Peter Satan ',
Satan is a hebrew word that means 'enemy'.
the devil is a greek word meaning slandered and false accuser, against God and men.
I think the reply you are looking for is this, that Jesus was addressing Peter's 'satanic' side, his lower natural part of himself that always was paying attention to the things of men and not paying attention to the things of God.
Peter tempted Jesus to not obey Father. This is satanic, he did it in a way that was probably even unknown or recognized by himself. He did it on impulse, a natural reaction, you are saying that Jesus addressed Peter's satanic side the part of him that was an enemy to God, and an enemy to Peter,
JEsus addressed the 'sin' that dwelt in Peter, the same 'sin' that indwelt Paul that he wrote about, saying "it is not I Paul who sinned, but it is the SIN that dwells in me, that sinned" paraphrase - mine.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 8:18:50 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1261
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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But does this equate the devil? No. Satan is still a seperate entity. Revelations 20:1-15 basically talks about Satan and how he deceived others. Also Revelations 12:9-10 says:
12:7
And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
12:8
But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.
12:9
The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
If the devil is my old nature or my old man than that means my old nature was thrown out of heaven before I was even born or before God created the earth. How can my old nature or old man be thrown from heaven? How did it start a war in heaven in which Micheal and the angels fought? Did Jesus see my old nature thrown from heaven? Again, it doesn't make sense. Yes, we all sin, but sin does not equate the fact that the devil is the old man which is sin, which is what the OP had said. Be careful of these false teachings that claim the devil isn't real and hell isn't real, etc. It's just someone's idea of pretending Satan and hell don't exist.
quote:
ORIGINAL: hellochurch
7:15-18) I do not do what I want to do but what I hate...it is not I who do it but the SIN which resides in me...no good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh...m, (sarx) from original
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 8:33:54 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1261
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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Ahhh . . . MrFibbles, I think everyone took their toys and went home. :(
kim
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 10:12:15 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 403
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
This is pointless.....I am sure he cant answer the Job question because it is not from whatever website or book he read this idea from.
I apologize for this statement, it was not to build you up. I am sorry, I got caught up in the moment. I just know what you are saying is wrong and I wish you could understand that Hell and Satan are real, and that only through Faith in the blood of Christ, can we not go to that place.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 10:25:51 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1714
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
Ahhh . . . MrFibbles, I think everyone took their toys and went home. :(
I really hope they'll be back. It makes me sad when people give up just because people disagree with them.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Are you a Universalist or Eternal Damnationist? - 8/28/2008 11:31:09 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Ahhh . . . MrFibbles, I think everyone took their toys and went home. :(
I really hope they'll be back. It makes me sad when people give up just because people disagree with them.
Or maybe they have something else to do? lol
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