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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/30/2008 6:01:23 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
I believe that the patriarchal model is used by abusers.
Well, the secular press calls it patriarchy. What it is is abusers who say they are doing the patriarchy thing but aren't, but a awful perversion of it. It's a handy excuse and cover for evil.
Patriarchy means the father is head of the house, and responsible for the welfare of everyone in it. He's not the slave-driver but the slave of everyone in the family. Fathers are responsible before God for the provision of their family's needs: physical, emotional, spiritual, training (education, not just academics but lifeskills), all for adulthood. They are not to exasperate their children to anger but train them in godliness. They are to love their children, and love is unselfish and self-sacrificing.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/30/2008 6:05:30 PM
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bluestone
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but that is not what many in the "Movement" do. They do exactly what the quoted article describes. I don't think it is the secular world painting a pretty picture horrid. More of a case of abusers using the term to hide or justify their domination, which is dangerous to their spouses and kids, both emotionally and possibly physically.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/30/2008 6:09:33 PM
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phosadaud
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Abusive and paranoid. That's how my friend's family was. Very, very paranoid.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/30/2008 9:53:35 PM
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bluestone
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I think it stems from trying to take an ancient middle eastern way of life, and trying to transport it into the 21st Century.
A growing number of people seem to get culture of the Bible mixed up with Commands of the Bible.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/31/2008 9:11:37 AM
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DaveW
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I am surprised the name Bill Gothard and his Basic Youth Conflicts teachings have not been mentioned. He has been a proponent of this kind of heavy patriarchy since the 1960s and thousands of parents attended his seminars when they were younger.
He teaches that any person is a slave to their parents until they marry, and any other model of family is total rebellion to God and the bible. That includes 70 year olds having to follow the whims of their parents who are in their 90s. They had better STILL be living at home.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/31/2008 1:15:04 PM
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Consecrated2God
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I think even Bill Gothard is mild compared to what some of the things that the article is talking about.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/31/2008 6:17:03 PM
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stateofgrace
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I used to think Gothard was the worst too - but at least Gothard single young adult daughters are allowed to go live outside the home IF they go serve one of Gothard's organizations.
More extreme than Gothard is Doug Phillips and those like him. We're talking people here who don't believe women should have the right to vote, who believe that women can only receive communion served by their husband or another male family member, etc.
There are some very active blogs where this topic is being discussed, and the term I see often is "patrio-centricy"
If you're interested, take a look at thatmom.wordpress.com (she's a homeschooling mom), whitewashedfeminist.com (there's a whole story behind that term), and truewomanhood.wordpress.com
(These are not blogs promoting this kind of teaching, in case anyone is not clear).
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/31/2008 6:28:20 PM
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DaveW
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Scarey stuff. Did I miss the taliban taking up residence here?
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/31/2008 8:59:54 PM
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Sideways
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I liked the white washed feminist blog. I only read a few articles, don't have time to tonight, but she had some interesting things to say, especially about the Pearls.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 8/31/2008 11:16:02 PM
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bluestone
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I remember a website that has since shut down, I think.
About men's right to use corporal punishment on his wife. Went along the same lines.
The stories were horrifying. and right in tune with this current marital fad.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 9/1/2008 12:44:52 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
There was a thread on that a while back. It still churns my stomach.
Yeah, that was my thread..don't worry, I didn't agree with the concept, not at all, I found it horribly disgusting..but I did start the thread.
And sadly.................
the website (which I referred to but did NOT link to), is alive and well.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 9/1/2008 11:02:29 AM
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NotDoneYet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
When you teach and drum it into women's heads that they are less than men in every way, that they have no say so in their own lives or the lives of their children, or that the mans' wishes supercedes everything, including common sense and safety, the corporal punishment and patriarchy situations will exist.
The scenario seems to be growing in segments of the church, sadly. 
Yeah it is! I get all sorts of stuff for being a "career-mom". We are custodial grandparents of 2 little girls, and to be honest, I could NOT stay home with them...I'd lose what was left of my mind. I get so tired of trying to defend myself against those types. I'm so over it. Yes, I WAS a SAHM for awhile (that's a whole 'nother story)...I finished college, I have a great career, I make good money, my children are well taken care of, both at day-care and at home. BUT...it'd be a cold day in the nether regions of hades before I would consider being one of those "submissive" types...nope, nuh-uh, ain't happening...
Yep, I'm a feminist...aka square peg in round hole when it comes to Christianity, churches, etc.
NDY
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 9/1/2008 11:03:26 AM
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bluestone
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Some men can only feel manly if they are keeping women under their thumb. Their idea of submission is not one of mutual love, respect, and equality, putting one's needs on hold for those of another, but one of tyrannical rule, notions of slavery, and selfishness.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 9/1/2008 12:04:55 PM
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shadowspring
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Well, NDY, I get all sorts of stuff for NOT having a career outside the home!
I don't know where you go to church, but most of the churches around here seem polarized around one notion or the other. It is truly a shame that women cannot be more supportive of each other for following their hearts, without some arbirtary notion of where your heart SHOULD lead. 
I am very blessed to have found a small congregation where people are allowed to just be who God calls them to be, but I looked long and hard for it first. 
It is so awesome though, well worth the search.  The partriarchy would have a fit at our church! Women and men can read scripture aloud, and give communion, as they feel led by God. We don't even have an approval process! It is open to whosoever will at the service each Sunday.
Imagine, obeying the gospel being acceptable to whosoever will! 
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 9/1/2008 1:18:45 PM
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bluestone
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Most Churches?
I come from a different area, perhaps. The only groups I know teaching that are Baptists and some Pentecostal groups. I understand that being part of the ancient culture, where men were educated and women were left in ignorance. But , we are probably about to get shipped off to a one stop thread, huh?
The patriarchal model is one of oppression and disrespect for women of intelligence, and a need for servanthood from children. I do believe it is growing, thanks to the internet. Same as pornography, more people are able to see more of it.
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RE: Patriarchal Dysfunctional Families - 9/1/2008 1:26:11 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 289
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
Well, NDY, I get all sorts of stuff for NOT having a career outside the home!
I don't know where you go to church, but most of the churches around here seem polarized around one notion or the other. It is truly a shame that women cannot be more supportive of each other for following their hearts, without some arbirtary notion of where your heart SHOULD lead.
I am very blessed to have found a small congregation where people are allowed to just be who God calls them to be, but I looked long and hard for it first.
It is so awesome though, well worth the search. The partriarchy would have a fit at our church! Women and men can read scripture aloud, and give communion, as they feel led by God. We don't even have an approval process! It is open to whosoever will at the service each Sunday.
Imagine, obeying the gospel being acceptable to whosoever will!
I would say many here are on the extreme of SAHM/QF. But, I live in the south...and it doesn't help that I have a sort of "non-traditional" career (for women).
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I was recently taken to the woodshed by a poster for challenging the idea that women who are not given in marriage by their fathers (or some other authority) are not considered married properly before God. 
