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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/11/2008 1:10:37 PM
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rcjames
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A question about what God tell folks; does it always come to pass?
I think not for God told Moses that He (God) was going to destroy the Children of Isreal because of worshipping the golden calf.
Now if Moses had spoken this out (and I guess maybe he did when he wrote about it) then when God changed His mind and repented; well shucks Moses would have been a false Prophet according to some on this thread.
That passage is proof positive that God does change his mind about things He has spoken to man..
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/11/2008 3:17:25 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
A question about what God tell folks; does it always come to pass?
I think not for God told Moses that He (God) was going to destroy the Children of Isreal because of worshipping the golden calf.
Now if Moses had spoken this out (and I guess maybe he did when he wrote about it) then when God changed His mind and repented; well shucks Moses would have been a false Prophet according to some on this thread.
That passage is proof positive that God does change his mind about things He has spoken to man..
Thanks
RC
RC,
This is very problematic. Really, because then your train of thought is opening the door to any and all who claim to be a Prophet. It also contradicts God's own rules for knowing whether someone is a Prophet or not.
When someone changes his/her mind, it is often because new information has come to light that was not previously known, or the circumstances have changed that require a different kind of attitude or action.
Because God is omniscient, He cannot learn something new that He did not already know. So, when the Bible speaks of God changing His mind, it must be understood that the circumstance or situation has changed, not God. So when Exodus 32:14 and 1 Samuel 15:11-29 talk about God changing His mind, it is simply describing a change of dispensation, and outward dealings, toward man.
Numbers 23:19 is very clear, “God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?”
No, God does not change His mind. These verses affirm the doctrine of God’s immutability: He is unchanging and unchangeable.
The Scriptures that describe God apparently “changing His mind” are human attempts to explain the actions of God. God was going to do something, but instead did something else.
To us, that sounds like a change. But to God, who is omniscient and sovereign, it is not a change. God always knew what He was going to do. God also knew what He needed to do to cause humanity to do what He wanted them to do.
God threatened Nineveh with destruction, knowing that it would cause Nineveh to repent. God threatened Israel with destruction, knowing that Moses would intercede. God does not regret His decisions, but is saddened by some of what humanity does in response to His decisions. God does not change His mind, but rather acts consistently to His Word in response to our actions.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/11/2008 3:27:00 PM
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JimboFletch
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What about Jonah - even the very attempt to run because of anticipating what God would do?
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/11/2008 4:23:11 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
No, God does not change His mind. These verses affirm the doctrine of God’s immutability: He is unchanging and unchangeable.
So you are saying that the following verse is not true?
(Exodus 32;14) And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/11/2008 7:34:40 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
No, God does not change His mind. These verses affirm the doctrine of God’s immutability: He is unchanging and unchangeable.
So you are saying that the following verse is not true?
(Exodus 32;14) And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Thanks
RC
Malachi 3:6 declares, “I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.”
Similarly, James 1:17 tells us, “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.”
The meaning of Numbers 23:19 could not be more clear, “God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?” No, God does not change His mind. These verses assert that God is unchanging, and unchangeable.
However, this appears to contradict what is taught in other verses, such as Genesis 6:6, “The LORD was grieved that He had made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain.”
Also, Jonah 3:10 which says, “When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, He had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction He had threatened.”
Similarly, the passage you brought up (and rightfully so!) Exodus 32:14 proclaims, “Then the LORD relented and did not bring on His people the disaster He had threatened.”
These verses speak of the Lord “repenting” of something, and seem to be contrary to verses that teach that God is unchanging.
However, close examination of these passages reveals that these are not truly indications that God is capable of changing.
In the original language, the word that is translated as “repent,” or “relent,” is the Hebrew expression of “to be sorry for.” Being sorry for something does not mean that a change has occurred; it simply means that there is regret for something that has taken place.
Consider in Genesis 6:6 that “…The LORD was grieved that He had made man on the earth.” This verse even goes on to say “…His heart was filled with pain.”
This verse declares that God had regret for creating man. However, obviously He did not reverse His decision. Instead, through Noah, He allowed man to continue to exist. The fact that we are alive today is living proof that God did not change His mind about creating man.
Also, the context of this passage is a description of the sinful state man was living in, and it is man’s sinfulness that triggered God’s sorrow, not man’s existence. Consider what Jonah 3:10 says: “…He had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction He had threatened.”
Again, the same Hebrew word is used here, which expresses “to be sorry for.” Why was God “sorry” for what
He had planned for the Ninevites? Because they had a change in heart, and as a result, changed their ways from disobedience to obedience.
God is entirely consistent. God was going to judge Nineveh because of its evil. However, Nineveh repented and changed its ways. As a result, God had mercy on Nineveh, which is entirely consistent with His character.
Romans 3:23 teaches us that all men sin, and fall short of God’s standard.
Romans 6:23 states that the consequence for this is death (spiritual and physical). So, the people of Nineveh were deserving of punishment.
All of us face this same situation, as it is man’s choice to sin that separates us all from God. Man cannot hold God responsible for his own predicament. So it would be contrary to the character of God to not punish the Ninevites had they continued in sin.
However, the people of Nineveh turned to obedience, and for that the Lord chose not to punish them as He had originally intended. Did the change on the part of the Ninevites obligate God to do what he did? Absolutely not! God cannot be placed in a position of obligation to man.
God is good and righteous, and chose not to punish the Ninevites as a result of their change of heart. If anything, what this passage does is point to the fact that God does not change, because had the Lord not preserved the Ninevites, this would be contrary to the character of God.
The Scriptures that describe God apparently “changing His mind” are human attempts to explain the actions of God.
God was going to do something, but instead did something else. To us, that sounds like a change. But to God, who is omniscient and sovereign, it is not a change. God always knew what He was going to do. God also knew what He needed to do to cause humanity to do what He wanted them to do.
God threatened Nineveh with destruction, knowing that it would cause Nineveh to repent. God threatened Israel with destruction, knowing that Moses would intercede. God does not regret His decisions, but is saddened by some of what humanity does in response to His decisions. God does not change His mind, but rather acts consistently to His Word in response to our actions.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/11/2008 8:38:34 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
A question about what God tell folks; does it always come to pass?
I think not for God told Moses that He (God) was going to destroy the Children of Isreal because of worshipping the golden calf.
Now if Moses had spoken this out (and I guess maybe he did when he wrote about it) then when God changed His mind and repented; well shucks Moses would have been a false Prophet according to some on this thread.
That passage is proof positive that God does change his mind about things He has spoken to man..
Thanks
RC
You really believe God repented of evil??? Let alone changed His mind... Wow... The effectiveness of Moses' intersession can only be described by characterizing God in human terms. He relents and withhold the total judgment he had threatened. Without a doubt Moses' intercessory prayer was the will of God in that is served a purpose for God to show mercy...
Btw... God knew the outcome prior... What happened wasn't in the balance, it was what God ordained...
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John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/11/2008 8:39:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
No, God does not change His mind. These verses affirm the doctrine of God’s immutability: He is unchanging and unchangeable.
So you are saying that the following verse is not true?
(Exodus 32;14) And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Thanks
RC
Only if one believes God is capable of evil...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/12/2008 8:06:10 AM
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rcjames
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If God had did what he said he was going to do it would have been wrong.
Moses reminded God of His Word.
And the Bible says that God repented of what he said he was going to do.
That is just really simple to understand.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/12/2008 8:09:12 AM
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earthless
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RC,
I responded in earnest and length. I hope it proves helpful to your question and stance.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/12/2008 6:42:11 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
RC,
I responded in earnest and length. I hope it proves helpful to your question and stance.
and my friend, maybe in denial of what Scripture plainly says.
I look at the passage as a faith builder that God will not go back on His Word even if he desires to do such.
You for some reason look at it like a slam on God.
It is God's Word, His voince still speaking to us; so we should learn from it, not deny it.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/12/2008 9:32:42 PM
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earthless
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RC,
Your stance is saying that God is not omniscient.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/12/2008 9:45:11 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
If God had did what he said he was going to do it would have been wrong.
Moses reminded God of His Word.
And the Bible says that God repented of what he said he was going to do.
That is just really simple to understand.
Thanks
RC
Moses reminded God of His word... God is forgetful? Interesting... What other human like failings does God have?
Given your it's just really simple to understand view, I take it you believe the following says just what is says?
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/12/2008 9:46:42 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
RC,
I look at the passage as a faith builder that God will not go back on His Word even if he desires to do such.
He did go back on His word according to your view...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/12/2008 10:06:08 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
says that God repented
But this implies that God somehow "sinned" and needed a change of direction. Could this be a translation issue? I did a search of all the verses on my computer bible and found the word used only in the KJV and the ASB.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/13/2008 12:53:38 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
says that God repented
But this implies that God somehow "sinned" and needed a change of direction. Could this be a translation issue? I did a search of all the verses on my computer bible and found the word used only in the KJV and the ASB.
It's an issue of not understanding that God is molding Moses...
Earthless explained it perfectly here... From post #55
The Scriptures that describe God apparently “changing His mind” are human attempts to explain the actions of God.
God was going to do something, but instead did something else. To us, that sounds like a change. But to God, who is omniscient and sovereign, it is not a change. God always knew what He was going to do. God also knew what He needed to do to cause humanity to do what He wanted them to do.
God threatened Nineveh with destruction, knowing that it would cause Nineveh to repent. God threatened Israel with destruction, knowing that Moses would intercede. God does not regret His decisions, but is saddened by some of what humanity does in response to His decisions. God does not change His mind, but rather acts consistently to His Word in response to our actions.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/13/2008 10:03:35 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
RC,
Your stance is saying that God is not omniscient.
Actually that verse uplholds the omniscience of God.
But, I guess we could banter this around forever, but the Word says what the Word says, and the Word says;
(Exodus 32;14) And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
And I for one will never deny the Word, even if that passage does not suit me.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/13/2008 3:43:05 PM
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colliefan
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Not at all being a Hebrew scholar, this is Strong's Hebrew''
H5162
ðÈçÇí
nâcham
naw-kham'
A primitive root; properly to sigh, that is, breathe strongly; by implication to be sorry, that is, (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself):—comfort (self), ease [one’s self], repent (-er, -ing, self).
Holmans
H5162
ðÈçÇí
nâcham
BDB Definition:
1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion
1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent
1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted
1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself
1b) (Piel) to comfort, console
1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled
1d) (Hithpael)
1d1) to be sorry, have compassion
1d2) to rue, repent of
1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted
1d4) to ease oneself
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1344
Total KJV Occurrences: 109
comfort, 34
Gen 5:29, Gen 27:42, Gen 37:35, 2 Sam 10:2, 1 Chr 7:22, 1 Chr 19:2 (2), Job 2:11, Job 7:13, Job 21:34, Ps 23:4, Ps 71:21, Ps 119:50, Ps 119:76, Ps 119:82, Isa 22:4, Isa 40:1 (2), Isa 51:3 (2), Isa 51:19, Isa 57:6, Isa 61:2, Isa 66:13, Jer 16:7, Jer 31:13, Lam 1:2, Lam 1:17, Lam 1:21, Lam 2:13, Ezek 14:23, Ezek 16:54, Zech 1:17, Zech 10:2
comforted, 20
Gen 24:67, Gen 37:35, Gen 38:12, Gen 50:21, Ruth 2:13, 2 Sam 12:24, 2 Sam 13:39, Job 42:11, Ps 77:2, Ps 86:17, Ps 119:52, Isa 49:13, Isa 52:9, Isa 54:11, Isa 66:13, Jer 31:15, Ezek 5:13, Ezek 14:22, Ezek 31:16, Ezek 32:31
repent, 19
Ex 13:17, Ex 32:12, Num 23:19, Deut 32:36, 1 Sam 15:29 (2), Job 42:6, Ps 90:13, Ps 110:4, Ps 135:14, Jer 4:28, Jer 18:8, Jer 18:10, Jer 26:3, Jer 26:13, Jer 42:10, Joel 2:14 (2), Jon 3:9
repented, 17
Gen 6:6, Ex 32:14, Judg 2:18, Judg 21:6, Judg 21:15, 1 Sam 15:35, 2 Sam 24:16, 1 Chr 21:15, Ps 106:45, Jer 8:6, Jer 20:16, Jer 31:19 (2), Amos 7:3, Amos 7:6, Jon 3:10, Zech 8:14
comforters, 5
2 Sam 10:3, 1 Chr 19:3, Job 16:2, Ps 69:20, Nah 3:7
comforter, 3
Eccl 4:1, Lam 1:9, Lam 1:16
comforteth, 3
Job 29:25, Isa 66:12-13 (2)
repenteth, 3
Gen 6:7, 1 Sam 15:11, Joel 2:13
comfortedst, 1
Isa 12:1
ease, 1
Isa 1:24
receive, 1
Isa 57:6
repentest, 1
Jon 4:2
repenting, 1
Jer 15:6
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/13/2008 5:58:13 PM
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rcjames
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Back to the subject, I personally have never seen Pat Robertson do anything that would make me doubt his salvation.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Pat Robertson a Christian? - 9/16/2008 4:23:48 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Nevermind...lol
LOLZ
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Pat Incorrect - 10/20/2008 5:54:24 PM
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Teaching_The_Way
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I use to watch good ole Pat Robinson on the 700 club and when it comes to advice and scripture, he is usually incorrect.
So what does that say about Pat?
God Bless All! :)
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If our opinions does not line up with
the scriptures, then our opinions are
dead wrong! Gods words are more important
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RE: Pat Incorrect - 10/24/2008 3:53:29 PM
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mcleod
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quote:
Not at all being a Hebrew scholar, this is Strong's Hebrew''
I just want to know if you are a student of Murray of Shepards Chapel? For he to uses Strong's a lot to expain his thoughts.
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RE: Pat Incorrect - 10/24/2008 3:59:36 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
quote:
Not at all being a Hebrew scholar, this is Strong's Hebrew''
I just want to know if you are a student of Murray of Shepards Chapel? For he to uses Strong's a lot to expain his thoughts.
Mc, even I use Strong's a lot - I've had one since 1980. It is used by lots of people in all kinds of denominations and more than a few cults.
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