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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 9:54:25 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 2232
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the bottom of the laundry basket
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea213
quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
I think that lady who came in here and flamed Garsy for the pharmacy incident, MUST be joking, so I won't even acknowledge what she said to me. My guess is that if Jesus were there at the pharmacy right then, he might have tried to cheer the kids up.....or just healed them. LOL
Thanks Stina!
You would not believe how hard it was for me to hold it together that day. All night up with the kids, emergency dr visit, and a trip to the only blasted pharmacy that took our insurance at the time and they didn't have a drive-up or I would have used it. Oh and the trouble figuring out which med would work as I have a child with medication allergies too. If Jesus had walked into that pharmacy that day and laid his hands on my kids and healed them - it is likely you would not have been able to drag me away from his feet for NOTHING!
SweetPea - since you seem to have things all figured out, HOW would have YOU dealt with that situation given the above information, and the fact that the two in pain were 6 months and almost 2 at the time, and both in severe pain with double ear infections?
I'm serious here. I want to know how easy it is.
Blessings,
Garsy
Here's what I would have done in your situation:
1). I would have taken the kids to the doctors office.
2). GO HOME.
3). Administer Infants Tylenol for pain relief.
4). When my husband came, I would give him the rx to go to the pharmacy, while I stayed at home and took care of the kids.
5). Husband gets rx's. The both of us make sure the kids get their medicine.
AS others have stated my hubby was out of town and would not have been back in town for another 2 days (He was at a NQC for his job at the time. NOT a pleasure trip by any means although he did enjoy himself) He would have gladly stopped and gotten the scrip for me gladly had he been in town and he likely would have come home or stayed home from work that day HAD he been home in the first place. But alas he wasn't.
I do value the advice of those without children, but there are some things that those who have never spent a night with a sick child as a single parent (although I am married when this incident took place I was essentially a single parent) or for that matter as one half of a two parent family, will never understand until they are there themselves. The point of view of someone without kids is often fresh and different and sometimes does work. But as has been said many times there are things those without kids just don't get and won't until they do. Then there are others that just can't handle that a parent just might have the GALL to put their child's NEEDS above some strangers comfort.
I'm not talking in church. I would take my children out and they would be disciplined appropriately. I'm not talking a restaurant - I have asked waitstaff to just box my order up for me to take home when one or more of my children are just not going to make it through. I'm not talking a theatrical performance or a movie, as my children were not brought to these things until I was positive they could handle it. (my eldest daughter was able to handle a production of Annie at 4 years old, but I have a difficult time still with my youngest ds even at simple school productions, and he's 9)
I'm talking things that can't be avoided, without causing extra trips, extra hassles and the potential that my child might get the idea that all they have to do to get their way is to pitch a fit.
What I'm asking for is some compassion and possibly for others to give me and other parents the benefit of the doubt sometimes. We are not perfect. We don't always make the right decisions. But most of us - at least the ones here on the boards are doing what we believe is best for OUR children, our families. In my world - God comes first, then my husband, then my children, then my extended family, then everyone else. I'm sorry that sometimes my putting my child first, my family first, puts someone else out or causes someone else to become annoyed, but I'm not sorry that I put my child's needs first, as that is what I'm called to do as a parent.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 10:00:16 PM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 1300
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You know what? If a person has no compassion for a sick child at a pharmacy, maybe THEY are the ones who need to go home and remove themselves from society.
Children are a blessing.
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Life Trumps Choice
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 11:41:23 PM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 312
Joined: 12/6/2007
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I'd like to consider myself a sympathetic parent. It really hurts to hear a baby cry. I must resist the urge to ask a mom if I can hold the baby for her because I soooo understand being overwhelmed(but we live in a society of nut cases so, handing over your baby to a stranger.......). I've had times in public places where my child was being "testy," not an all out screaming tantrum mind you(somehow it was communicated and understood that momma doesn't play that  ). But there have been many times where I've had to tune(LEARN to tune) out simple whining/irritation in order to accomplish my task. So, I even get when parents have mastered the art of...... "moving forward" when children are....going there.
That being said I just DO NOT get a child being allowed to persist in uncontrolled behavior REGARDLESS of the circumstance. Sure, if the child/toddler is sleepy, in pain, has been sitting for a long time etc. we must understand and respond based upon that understanding but we must still RESPOND and CORRECT behavior, ESPECIALLY when they're young. If not then, WHEN? I actually CAN imagine how Jesus might instruct us in situations where children are "acting out." There are MANY days I am tired, in pain, frustrated, sleepy, hungry, hurt, disappointed, angry and never has it been PERMISSIBLE for me to act or treat others any way I choose based upon how I feel. God, as my parent is instructing me(and I can be just as stubborn, unfortunately as a two year old  . Aren't we to train children up in the way they SHOULD go? instead of children being exempt from certain discipline and correction because they are children(and it's understandable that they will act......as children), childhood is a time to rear them and prepare them, teach them and correct them about what is acceptable and what is not. I believe that some are passionate about this subject because we have all witnessed parents who allow their children to misbehave with little to no correction and to me that's a form of child abuse in itself.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/11/2008 11:47:44 PM
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SweetPea213
Posts: 61
Joined: 2/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
You know what? If a person has no compassion for a sick child at a pharmacy, maybe THEY are the ones who need to go home and remove themselves from society.
Children are a blessing.
Maybe more people such as yourself should get off your high and mighty horse and think you're better than childless people! I do want kids someday, I feel I will be a good parent.
Perhaps people such as yourself who refuse to even consider another person's point of view should be the ones who remove themselves from society.
Just because a person doesn't like listening to a screaming child in public are not bad, horrible people as every single one of you seem to think.
Take my own Mom as an example. She doesn't like going somewhere (store/pharmacy/wherever) and having to listen to someone's little angel screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs. You know why? Because she has depression and an anxiety disorder. The kid's prolonged screeching makes her anxious, nervous, jittery, her patience may get a little thin--even for a few minutes after we are out of the nerveracking situation. That's just what can happen with her. Through no fault of her own, as she has a mental DISORDER.
Depressive and anxiety disorders can be genetic--as I too struggle with them. So where is the compassion and consideration of people such as my Mom?
_____________________________
"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed." ~ 1 Peter 2:24
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 12:05:25 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5097
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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Where is the compassion for the sick kid with the double ear infection? I've had double ear infections as an adult, including pin holes in my ear drums and they are PAINFUL. In fact, I would rate it up there with childbirth(although it's a different pain). There is no way on God's green earth that I would make my child wait all day just so I don't inconvenience someone else. I'm sorry, I'm not going to do it... Not to mention the possible ramifications to their poor ears.
If they were just having an angry, rebellious tantrum then I would be likely to remove them frmo the store. But crying from pain and not feeling well? I don't think so, especially if we are waiting for a prescription. Antibiotics start helping within HOURS, I would not make my sick child wait any longer then necessary.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 12:16:51 AM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2933
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea213
quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
You know what? If a person has no compassion for a sick child at a pharmacy, maybe THEY are the ones who need to go home and remove themselves from society.
Children are a blessing.
Maybe more people such as yourself should get off your high and mighty horse and think you're better than childless people! I do want kids someday, I feel I will be a good parent.
Perhaps people such as yourself who refuse to even consider another person's point of view should be the ones who remove themselves from society.
Just because a person doesn't like listening to a screaming child in public are not bad, horrible people as every single one of you seem to think.
Nowhere in Laura's post did she imply she was better than a childless person.
The point is not someone doesn't like listening to screaming kids, the point is that you have absolutely no compassion for a person with a sick child at a pharmacy. It is one of the most rediculous things I've EVER heard on this forum. And, I can't believe that you are still here trying to defend your point. Your line of thinking is SO off.
So, after hearing Garsy's situation with her hubby out of town and no sitter, what exactly do you think she should have done? Put duct tape on her kids' mouths? You just can't shut children up, and in Garsy's situation, a harsh word to do so would NOT have been appropriate.
If it bothers your mom so much, she can leave because those kids need to get their medicine.
If you feel that you will be a good parent when you grow up, then your line of thinking will change DRAMATICALLY when you have your own.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 12:38:27 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
Take my own Mom as an example. She doesn't like going somewhere (store/pharmacy/wherever) and having to listen to someone's little angel screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs. You know why? Because she has depression and an anxiety disorder. The kid's prolonged screeching makes her anxious, nervous, jittery, her patience may get a little thin--even for a few minutes after we are out of the nerveracking situation. That's just what can happen with her. Through no fault of her own, as she has a mental DISORDER.
My second closest friend(29 yrs.old) in the whole world has schizophrenia with bipolar tendencies..some of the secondary effects she has include anxiety and depression..she can get extremely paranoid...she can think the nicest person in the world is giving her bad looks...she gets incredibly easily confused..can get lost walking down a straight street even when I've explained the street to her..she can be so needy that I find, at times dealing with her an extreme challenge....
HOWEVER, in spite of all her mental challenges, and her paranoia with adults, she has NEVER cast judgement on a child or on how a parent interacts with that child...or been annoyed just because a child was crying, or thought someone in a store was supposed to remove the child for her sake. When she realizes a situation is too stressful, she removes HERSELF from the situation. As paranoid as she can be (and believe me, she can be (she seriously thought a "FRIENDS(the TV show)" episode was directed at HER), she still has NEVER expected parents of a young child to know her condition and cater to her. In fact, when she crosses the path of a child (in a good mood or not), it actually seems to cheer her up and get her out of herself for a few minutes.
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 12:41:15 AM
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SweetPea213
Posts: 61
Joined: 2/20/2008
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quote:
Nowhere in Laura's post did she imply she was better than a childless person.
The point is not someone doesn't like listening to screaming kids, the point is that you have absolutely no compassion for a person with a sick child at a pharmacy. It is one of the most rediculous things I've EVER heard on this forum. And, I can't believe that you are still here trying to defend your point. Your line of thinking is SO off.
So, after hearing Garsy's situation with her hubby out of town and no sitter, what exactly do you think she should have done? Put duct tape on her kids' mouths? You just can't shut children up, and in Garsy's situation, a harsh word to do so would NOT have been appropriate.
If it bothers your mom so much, she can leave because those kids need to get their medicine.
If you feel that you will be a good parent when you grow up, then your line of thinking will change DRAMATICALLY when you have your own.
So you are in effect saying that someone with a Depressive and Anxiety Disorder who might, oh I don't know, go into an ANXIETY ATTACK because of someone's kid is screaming (regardless of the reason)? Is their something about DISORDER that *you* do NOT understand?! I think there is.
"Anxiety An intense emotional response caused by the preconscious recognition that a repressed conflict is about to emerge into consciousness.
Anxiety disorders Mental disorders marked by physiological arousal, feelings of tension, and intense apprehension without apparent reason" Psychology Matters
An ear infection is temporary--usually goes away within a week or two (I've had ear infections myself). A PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER CAN TAKE YEARS TO OVERCOME, AND USUALLY NEEDS A COMBONATION OF ANTIDEPRESSANTS/ANTIANXIETY PRESCRIPTIONS AND THERAPY.
Psychological illness trumps ear infection.
My Mom also has other health related problems, which I am not going to mention right now.
So its nice to see that you have compassion upon those with psychological illnesses.
_____________________________
"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed." ~ 1 Peter 2:24
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 12:42:04 AM
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spitzu
Posts: 1064
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Oh heck, I had a horrible earache a few years ago and I was in tears myself, as a grown (mostly) mature adult. How in the world could you expect a small child to handle that kind of pain in a pleasant way? It's not like they're little adults. God didn't make them as little adults... they're children without the ability or capacity to act like adults.
I'm not a parent myself, but I have cared for enough children to not be ignorant to some the difficulties of parenthood or of the limited capacity of small children themselves. While a child throwing a tantrum is something I do find annoying, what I find the most annoying is borderline abusive behavior of parents toward them, or the parents who ignore their tiny infants crying their little hearts out while their parents just do whatever the heck they want to do at Kohls (perhaps they absolutely had to be there, as they were wearing the only clothing they owned, but they sure did seem like they were taking their sweet time to replenish their wardrobe while not even attempting to comfort the poor baby who was so obviously in distress the entire time).
Anyway, I just had to pipe up to let the parents know that not all of us childless people hate you for having your children in public, even if they're crying in pain or acting up. Some of us would offer to do whatever we could to help. Some of us kinda sorta try to understand.
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<- Ahh, the sound of a real shutter. It's like music!
Macro Monday #3
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 12:47:25 AM
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spitzu
Posts: 1064
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea213
So you are in effect saying that someone with a Depressive and Anxiety Disorder who might, oh I don't know, go into an ANXIETY ATTACK because of someone's kid is screaming (regardless of the reason)? Is their something about DISORDER that *you* do NOT understand?! I think there is.
*I* have a severe anxiety disorder myself and I will tell you right now that I'd much rather go into a huge panic attack if it meant a sick innocent child could get the medicine he or she needed.
And yeah, psychological disorders can take years to overcome... but come on... I have panic attacks regularly and each one is temporary. They DO end. They don't normally put me in any immediate danger, like a severe infection could in a child. Not even close. Besides, when I panic, I'm smart enough to attempt to remove myself from the situation or even avoid my triggers to begin with. Sometimes when I'm really bad, that means avoiding certain public places. *I* have that choice. A sick child does not.
< Message edited by spitzu -- 9/12/2008 12:54:07 AM >
_____________________________
<- Ahh, the sound of a real shutter. It's like music!
Macro Monday #3
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 12:58:31 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spitzu
Oh heck, I had a horrible earache a few years ago and I was in tears myself, as a grown (mostly) mature adult. How in the world could you expect a small child to handle that kind of pain in a pleasant way? It's not like they're little adults. God didn't make them as little adults... they're children without the ability or capacity to act like adults.
I'm not a parent myself, but I have cared for enough children to not be ignorant to some the difficulties of parenthood or of the limited capacity of small children themselves. While a child throwing a tantrum is something I do find annoying, what I find the most annoying is borderline abusive behavior of parents toward them, or the parents who ignore their tiny infants crying their little hearts out while their parents just do whatever the heck they want to do at Kohls (perhaps they absolutely had to be there, as they were wearing the only clothing they owned, but they sure did seem like they were taking their sweet time to replenish their wardrobe while not even attempting to comfort the poor baby who was so obviously in distress the entire time).
Anyway, I just had to pipe up to let the parents know that not all of us childless people hate you for having your children in public, even if they're crying in pain or acting up. Some of us would offer to do whatever we could to help. Some of us kinda sorta try to understand.
Ditto  (except I didn't have a horrible earache a few years ago)
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 1:16:53 AM
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OneOfHisJewels
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From: California
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And why couldn't your mom just do what my friend does, and remove HERSELF from the situation, rather than expecting the parent to remove the child from the situation? With all the problems my friend has, she still understands the difference between an adult and a child, and in spite of all her problems, she still admits she has a more convenient life than a parent (not that she's saying parents have a BAD life, she just understands they are more tied down/committed/inconvenienced than her).
_____________________________
"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 1:21:13 AM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2933
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
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Like the others have said, Sweetpea, your mom is an adult and if she has something coming on, she can go to another aisle or step outside for a minute to let the poor kid get their medicine.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 1:41:17 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1051
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so what do we do in an emergency room when we have children in pain and anxiety disorders? send the people in pain home because disorders trump pain?
this whole idea is so silly. sending the suffering children home without medicine.
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 7:56:23 AM
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kohls356
Posts: 361
Joined: 8/22/2007
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I imagine that if/when sweetpea has her own child that she will be the one in the pharmacy with her sick child demanding that she be waited on first because her child is more important that anyone elses child.
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 7:57:18 AM
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Consecrated2God
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 8:44:17 AM
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garsyt
Posts: 2232
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Thanks everyone.
I guess what I'm saying is that as a parent, my children's health and well-being come before that of some stranger I don't know. I can't be expected to know the mental health conditions of everyone around me at all times. I can't be expected to know what will trigger a migraine, a panic attack, emotional outburst or what other health problems some stranger might have. But I DO know what is happening with my child. And I'm not going to deny them medication that is going to allow them to avoid possible permanent damage to their hearing. What kind of mother would you think I was then if I allowed an ear infection get to the point of causing permanent damage just because I chose not to go to the pharmacy, and waited for my husband to come home two days down the road? I couldn't possibly be expected to know the schedule of every adult in my community that may or may not be able to handle a child in pain.
Adults have more freedom and ability to control what happens to them and they are capable of removing themselves. Adults also have the luxury of years and learning how to deal with their pain without losing their minds. Kids don't have that experience and with the ages I had at the time we are discussing they also didn't have the words to communicate how much pain they were in.
And like I've said a dozen times now. My children were NOT screaming at the top of their lungs. They were crying and fussy and irritable and on the verge of losing it. And even if they had lost it it wouldn't have been because they were purposely wanting to annoy someone nor did I want to annoy.
From how I'm taking this - Sweetpea - is that you think children simply because they MAY or MAY NOT trigger some adults psychological issues, should never be out in public because they may or may not be able to fully control themselves and their parents are totally in the wrong for not considering the comfort of every adult around them above the needs of their child. Am I right in this? If I am then I say tough.
And AGAIN I'm not talking about full-blown tantrums, where the child is losing their mind over mom saying no to a candy bar. My children know that they will suffer the consequences for such behavior. I'm talking about kids in pain and mom making the choice to get medicine to heal the problem, I'm talking about kids singing up and down the aisles of WalMart (apparently majorly annoying enough to cause some old grump to get on my then 4 year olds case). I'm NOT talking about a kid flopping around on the floor screaming at the top of their lungs, simply because mom picked one cereal over another. I'm NOT talking about those that allow their children to be holy terrors in a restaurant. But I am expecting some courtesy and respect when at a FAMILY style restaurant when my kids are simply talking amongst themselves or with me at the table or they, God forbid, spill their fruit cup onto the floor, or have to go to the bathroom. It's going to be louder at a family style restaurant - and ADULTS should know that. If I'm going out for a quiet lunch or dinner with my husband I'm sure as anything not going to pick Bob Evans, or Pizza Hut.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 1:20:18 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4259
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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good grits-n-gravy! I walk over to get a sammich at subway and this thread goes wild! 
seems like one incident at a pharmacy has totally tainted the view of some posters and it might be a good time to change perceptions.
This is stolen from S. Covey:
The setting is a man and his kids riding on a bus...kids seem out of control, loud, wildly running around, etc.
Finally . . . I turned to him and said, `Sir, your children are really disturbing a lot of people. I wonder if you could control them a little more?' The man lifted his gaze as if to come to a consciousness of the situation for the first time and said softly: `Oh, you're right. I guess I should do something about it. We just came from the hospital where their mother died about an hour ago. I don't know what to think, and I guess they don't know how to handle it either.' "
a little grace....just a little grace
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RE: Non-Parent Opinion on Temper Tantrums - 9/12/2008 1:36:46 PM
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