RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new earth they won't be again.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/11/2008 3:53:16 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
OK, lets look at this. The two sides of this argument are:
- the Bible says God said "I have given every green herb for food."
- a person says that it isn't rational because of population problems.
I will trust the Bible over any human intelligence, however high it might be. A Higher Intelligence created our intelligence.
God was conclusive about what was going to eat: "every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life" - do you suppose He forgot to tell us that they'd be eating more than herbs, when He was going in to detail about the rest?
That could be it. Or maybe the person writing this account millions of years later from when it happened forgot. Or maybe that wasn't important to them, so they left it out.
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The fossil ages are based on the rock layers which are dated by the fossils in them. It's circular reasoning, and geologists have been complaining for at least 70 years that something more definitive is warrented.
That's news to me.
quote:
Carbon dating is accepted as credible by everyone as far as I know, but Dr. Libby who invented it, said it wasn't accurate past 6000 years. Yet people routinely use it to date things millions of years old. And there is dating using other elements, and argon gives a earth age of ten years. Which are you going to believe, and importantly, why? You've been around longer than ten years, but how do you know the carbon dating isn't just as inaccurate in the opposite direction? Especially with the 6000 year limit.
Aside from that carbon dating has been repeatedly used and proven as accurate. In their claims of errors, creationists do not consider misuse of the technique. It is not uncommon for them to misuse radiocarbon dating by attempting to date samples that are millions of years old (for example, Triassic "wood") or that have been treated with organic substances. In such cases, the errors belong to the creationists, not the carbon-14 dating method.
Radiocarbon dating has been repeatedly tested, demonstrating its accuracy. It is calibrated by tree-ring data, which gives a nearly exact calendar for more than 11,000 years back. It has also been tested on items for which the age is known through historical records, such as parts of the Dead Sea scrolls and some wood from an Egyptian tomb (MNSU n.d.; Watson 2001). Multiple samples from a single object have been dated independently, yielding consistent results. Radiocarbon dating is also concordant with other dating techniques (e.g., Bard et al. 1990).
Please don't forget that carbon dating is not the only proven scientific method used to date things back that far. It has been used inaccurately, but that doesn't change the fact that is is accurate when used properly and it conclusively does prove the Earth to be far older than 10,000 years.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/11/2008 4:17:06 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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God created the earth full grown, when Adam was created He was full grown. When God made the trees they were full grown, oceans, mountains etc. God created the earth aged. That would explain how things appear so old. The BIBLE IS THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD they just didn't forget to put something in there, or just say well I don't think this deserves to go in there. You either believe ever word of it or you don't period. To say some thigns are literal some things aren't. Jesus always stated when He was stating a parable, everytime the bible isn't being literal it says the likeness or was like. Otherwise I consider it to be literal. I consider creation literal the flood literal etc. Why do you think there are so many messed up denominations and beliefs out there. They take what they want to be literal (what they want to believe) and say its fact and the other stuff they say as you have stated that it was not inspired or it wasn't meant to be taken that way.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/11/2008 4:24:00 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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quote:
Original:SonInMe1
quote:
Original: mvic
What is the Biblical point here because I've missed it
More than likely the worship of vegetarianism
First, I'm not a vegetarian.
I wasn't trying to make a Biblical point. The question had come up in another thread, and someone asked the other person for a Biblical reference. When I was preparing a sunday school lesson on creation I ran across Gen. 1:30, and thought right there is the answer, so I thought I would post it. I didn't mean to get a big discussion on how old the earth is, going.
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Original: DaveW
Gen 1.29-30 does not say specifically that ALL animals were herbivores.
It does say "all", and it says that this is what God gave them to eat. I agree with deermouse and AboundinginHisGrace and some others, that if they were to eat each other, I think He would have added that. (But, I could be wrong.)
As far as Isiaiah, I'll agree with you, that it could be symbolic (although I perfer to take it as fact), so I'll retract the second half of my statment.
Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
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Original: PolarBear
Those are the only verses that appear at first glance to mean no animal death before sin, and I just don't see them saying that at all.
"no animal death before sin"...
I had never heard of this before. I'll just say, the Bible doesn't say, so I don't know.
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Original: TorchHeart
I didn't say that the entire Bible wasn't to be taken literally. But the initial creation account in Genesis is a story from a time when people were not around. It was writen down (at earliest) around the time of Moses. It is a story that serves to answer a question about where we came from to an ancient people who wouldn't have understood dinosaurs, distant galaxies, lightspeed, etc.
I guess, I would just respond with this scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The bottom line is if animals age meat in the beginning or not, or how old the earth is for that matter is not a salvation issue. It's ok if we don't see eye to eye on it. :)
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Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/11/2008 4:30:48 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
The bottom line is if animals age meat in the beginning or not, or how old the earth is for that matter is not a salvation issue.
This I will definitely agree with.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/11/2008 10:09:25 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
quote:
Can I just say that I believe the Word is VERY clear on how long it took God to create the heavens and the earth!
You can, but it isn't clear on how long ago He did it.
TorchHeart is right.
A six day creation for sure, but which six days was it? God doesn't give us much of a clue. We can count the generations of the genealogy, but the Hebrew language is obscure on some things (the Greek of the NT, however, is brilliantly sharp and clear).
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/11/2008 10:40:39 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
OK, lets look at this. The two sides of this argument are:
- the Bible says God said "I have given every green herb for food."
- a person says that it isn't rational because of population problems.
I will trust the Bible over any human intelligence, however high it might be. A Higher Intelligence created our intelligence.
God was conclusive about what was going to eat: "every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life" - do you suppose He forgot to tell us that they'd be eating more than herbs, when He was going in to detail about the rest?
That could be it. Or maybe the person writing this account millions of years later from when it happened forgot. Or maybe that wasn't important to them, so they left it out.
If the account is inaccuate, then we have to throw the whole Bible away. 2 Timothy 3:16 says:
All Scripture is inspired by God
Literally, "God breathed" so if it's wrong then God is wrong/inaccurate/fallible and we're on our own in the world.
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quote:
The fossil ages are based on the rock layers which are dated by the fossils in them. It's circular reasoning, and geologists have been complaining for at least 70 years that something more definitive is warrented.
That's news to me.
I have seven years of college, a BA in biology from the University of California, and a teacher's credential in biology in California. I also used to teach at UC. It's within my professional purview to know this. I do need to learn more, but it's a start.
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Carbon dating is accepted as credible by everyone as far as I know, but Dr. Libby who invented it, said it wasn't accurate past 6000 years. Yet people routinely use it to date things millions of years old. And there is dating using other elements, and argon gives a earth age of ten years. Which are you going to believe, and importantly, why? You've been around longer than ten years, but how do you know the carbon dating isn't just as inaccurate in the opposite direction? Especially with the 6000 year limit.
quote:
Aside from that carbon dating has been repeatedly used and proven as accurate. In their claims of errors, creationists do not consider misuse of the technique. It is not uncommon for them to misuse radiocarbon dating by attempting to date samples that are millions of years old (for example, Triassic "wood") or that have been treated with organic substances. In such cases, the errors belong to the creationists, not the carbon-14 dating method.
Radiocarbon dating has been repeatedly tested, demonstrating its accuracy. It is calibrated by tree-ring data, which gives a nearly exact calendar for more than 11,000 years back. It has also been tested on items for which the age is known through historical records, such as parts of the Dead Sea scrolls and some wood from an Egyptian tomb (MNSU n.d.; Watson 2001). Multiple samples from a single object have been dated independently, yielding consistent results. Radiocarbon dating is also concordant with other dating techniques (e.g., Bard et al. 1990).
Please document this quotation.
The guy who invented it said it wasn't accurate originally, not the creationists. How does a person know something dated millions of years old actually is that old? Similar samples yielding similar results only show consistancy of result, not proof of accuracy.
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Please don't forget that carbon dating is not the only proven scientific method used to date things back that far. It has been used inaccurately, but that doesn't change the fact that is is accurate when used properly and it conclusively does prove the Earth to be far older than 10,000 years.
Yes, testing of other methods have yielded results far shorter. Argon says the earth is ten years old. Carbon dating of a living mussel once gave a age of thousands of years. And in our polluted waters, too.
How do you know some test was inaccurately done? Have you seen the write up of the experiment and know how to judge if it was properly done or not? Do you understand experimental design? Do you have a list of who did it right and who didn't, and what the difference in results were? I'm throwing a lot of stuff at you here, but you lead with points that leave you open to question how accurate your information is.
Please understand I'm not mad and this isn't a hostile questioning, but you've made some pretty bold statements on how sure you are without any biblical proof from the original Hebrew or from the internal evidence of Scripture (two main facets of Hermeneutics, the science and art of biblical interpretation) or from a scientific methodology.
God said the animals were given herbage to eat. He doesn't say that was all they could eat, but the context was pretty detailed and self-limiting, so it's reasonable to assume the food was, too. Like others have pointed out, and I'm finally getting to after birdwalking all over the place (thank you for humoring me) that this isn't a salvation issue. But it does reveal that Scripture might be second to human reasoning in some people's minds and the conclusions could lead some to think God is not sovereign or trustworthy, and that's worrisome.
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Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/11/2008 11:22:46 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
If the account is inaccuate, then we have to throw the whole Bible away. 2 Timothy 3:16 says:
All Scripture is inspired by God
Who said its inaccurate? Not me.
All Scripture may be inspired by God, but its writen down (and influenced again) by humans.
quote:
I have seven years of college, a BA in biology from the University of California, and a teacher's credential in biology in California. I also used to teach at UC. It's within my professional purview to know this. I do need to learn more, but it's a start.
You're this smart... and you believe in creationism??? Very intersting.
Here is the citation you wanted for the quote I gave you: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
*EDIT*: I couldn't send this to your PM box, so I'll post it here: My completements, by the way. From what I've read from you on here before, I would NEVER have guessed that you are as well educated as you are. My complements.
quote:
Please understand I'm not mad and this isn't a hostile questioning, but you've made some pretty bold statements on how sure you are without any biblical proof from the original Hebrew or from the internal evidence of Scripture (two main facets of Hermeneutics, the science and art of biblical interpretation) or from a scientific methodology.
You go from citing your respectable science-based background to wanting proof on the creation of the world based on the Bible. That's a bit of a contradiction for me because the Bible is based on faith, and faith is not science.
quote:
But it does reveal that Scripture might be second to human reasoning in some people's minds and the conclusions could lead some to think God is not sovereign or trustworthy
I'll give you that God is sovereign.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 9/12/2008 12:10:47 AM >
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 11:35:22 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1859
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
You're this smart... and you believe in creationism??? Very intersting.
Ha! I hear this all the time from nonChristians. God teaches it in His Word, which is more authoritative than anything man has written or figured. We are created beings, and we think we can outsmart the Creator?
Yes, I'm almost that smart. 
quote:
Here is the citation you wanted for the quote I gave you: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
Thank you. I'll be looking it over.
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*EDIT*: I couldn't send this to your PM box, so I'll post it here: My completements, by the way.
Compliments
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From what I've read from you on here before, I would NEVER have guessed that you are as well educated as you are. My complements.
Compliments
BTW, an ad hominum attack would cause a debater to lose in a professional debate.
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You go from citing your respectable science-based background to wanting proof on the creation of the world based on the Bible. That's a bit of a contradiction for me because the Bible is based on faith, and faith is not science.
Right. Are you willing to stand by that statement? Evolutionists have said that evolution must be true because anything else is unthinkable. That's in direct opposition to Scientific Methodology, where you look at the evidence and test it impartially and nothing is unthinkable. Written evolution material is full of "we believe" "we assume" "probably" etc. It's a belief system, NOT science. You can't prove history because it's not repeatable.
quote:
I'll give you that God is sovereign.
Then we agree on this.
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Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 11:40:59 AM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
Ha! I hear this all the time from nonChristians.
Are you saying I'm not a Christian? Or am I reading too much into this.
quote:
BTW, an ad hominum attack would cause a debater to lose in a professional debate.
That wasn't an attack. It was a legitimate compliment. I would've sent it to you privately, but couldn't so I posted it there.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 9/12/2008 11:55:53 AM >
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 12:04:56 PM
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PureLight
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
Ha! I hear this all the time from nonChristians.
Are you saying I'm not a Christian? Or am I reading too much into this.
quote:
BTW, an ad hominum attack would cause a debater to lose in a professional debate.
That wasn't an attack. It was a legitimate compliment. I would've sent it to you privately, but couldn't so I posted it there.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the part that's bold lol.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 1:18:03 PM
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KaseyTom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
God created the earth full grown, when Adam was created He was full grown. When God made the trees they were full grown, oceans, mountains etc. God created the earth aged. That would explain how things appear so old.
My personal problem with this explanation is it implies God created an earth, and a universe for that matter, packed with an incredibly vast amount of evidence of an old earth and much older universe. So much evidence, and so perfectly detailed, that it has completely fooled the most intelligent and educated people ever to have lived.
I cannot comprehend why He would do this.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 1:41:55 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
God created the earth full grown, when Adam was created He was full grown. When God made the trees they were full grown, oceans, mountains etc. God created the earth aged. That would explain how things appear so old.
My personal problem with this explanation is it implies God created an earth, and a universe for that matter, packed with an incredibly vast amount of evidence of an old earth and much older universe. So much evidence, and so perfectly detailed, that it has completely fooled the most intelligent and educated people ever to have lived.
I cannot comprehend why He would do this.
When He created everything His intention was not for man to sin, but it occured, inturn rebellion against Him and His creation. So it's not God doing it, it is man, and who is to say we humans even have a clue what we are doing when we think we have it all figured out. I mean we are humans He is God, we will never be able to explain it all. He left us with His inspired Word and I will trust that over a man's idea on how things occured. I mean come on, think about one light year.... I am not saying it doesn't exist but we have to have a whole lot of faith in man to just take them at their word when we have no idea ourself really what even a light year is. I mean we know the definition how do we really know that is how far light goes in a year.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 1:53:33 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
Ha! I hear this all the time from nonChristians.
Are you saying I'm not a Christian? Or am I reading too much into this.
I'm saying a lot of nonChristians hold this point of view. It always surprises me when Christians hold it as well. I am unaware whether you have said you were a Christian or not, but it's not germane to the friendly debate here.
Are you comfortable holding a point of view that leans away from biblical interpretation and falls in line with the evolution religion? Can you support your stance with solid hermeneutics of Scripture and show where evolutionists are actually right with their incredible claims in some areas?
quote:
quote:
BTW, an ad hominum attack would cause a debater to lose in a professional debate.
That wasn't an attack. It was a legitimate compliment. I would've sent it to you privately, but couldn't so I posted it there.
quote:
From what I've read from you on here before, I would NEVER have guessed that you are as well educated as you are
It seemed you were saying I didn't sound like I had much education. If I have misunderstood you, I profoundly apologize. Please forgive me.
_____________________________
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 2:09:22 PM
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KaseyTom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
God created the earth full grown, when Adam was created He was full grown. When God made the trees they were full grown, oceans, mountains etc. God created the earth aged. That would explain how things appear so old.
My personal problem with this explanation is it implies God created an earth, and a universe for that matter, packed with an incredibly vast amount of evidence of an old earth and much older universe. So much evidence, and so perfectly detailed, that it has completely fooled the most intelligent and educated people ever to have lived.
I cannot comprehend why He would do this.
I mean we know the definition how do we really know that is how far light goes in a year.
Easy, we measure how far it goes in a second (299792458 meters) and multiply it by 31556926.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 2:22:34 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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How do we measure the distance of light? And have you ever measured light or are you just believing something you have never seen before?
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 2:28:58 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
God created the earth full grown, when Adam was created He was full grown. When God made the trees they were full grown, oceans, mountains etc. God created the earth aged. That would explain how things appear so old.
My personal problem with this explanation is it implies God created an earth, and a universe for that matter, packed with an incredibly vast amount of evidence of an old earth and much older universe. So much evidence, and so perfectly detailed, that it has completely fooled the most intelligent and educated people ever to have lived.
I cannot comprehend why He would do this.
Here's something even more incomprehensible: He died to save us. It boggles the mind.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 2:31:33 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
I'm saying a lot of nonChristians hold this point of view. It always surprises me when Christians hold it as well.
Why? Most Christians I know of (and I would dare say most Christians in general) accept that the world is FAR older than 10,000 years, or that dinosaurs were never on Noah's Ark, or things of that nature. It doesn't invalidate the idea of God being directly involved in the creation of this universe; simply that He took His own time in doing things and did things His way.
I'm not even suggesting that God didn't create Adam and Eve, or that there wasn't a Garden of Eden. I'm just bothered by the idea that people will use such methods as adding up the ages of all the patriarch in the Bible and considering that a good source for guessing how old the Earth is.
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I am unaware whether you have said you were a Christian or not, but it's not germane to the friendly debate here.
Yes, I am a Christian, and I have stated such. You've responded to posts of mine in the past in regards to this. Did you read any of them? 
quote:
Are you comfortable holding a point of view that leans away from biblical interpretation and falls in line with the evolution religion? Can you support your stance with solid hermeneutics of Scripture and show where evolutionists are actually right with their incredible claims in some areas?
Completely comfortable. And I don't believe that my thinking this way makes me un-Christian or falls away from Biblical interpretation, necessarily.
And while I will freely admit that I am probably outmatched by you in this debate (and I'll even admit that I'm out-matched by a VAST distance), I believe that I can. Instead of debate, I'm simply going to urge you to look at the website I pointed out.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
I don't expect it to make people believe that we're all a bunch of monkeys (I don't believe that either), but I do think that there needs to be a compromise between what we know from science and what we know from the Bible to lead to a truer understanding of the world that God gave us.
quote:
It seemed you were saying I didn't sound like I had much education. If I have misunderstood you, I profoundly apologize. Please forgive me.
No, it wasn't that you sounded stupid in other posts; I simply wouldn't have guessed from them that you had that kind of back ground, and applied a stereotype. Perhaps I am the one who should look for an apology?
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 3:03:51 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
I'm just bothered by the idea that people will use such methods as adding up the ages of all the patriarch in the Bible and considering that a good source for guessing how old the Earth is.
What METHOD of adding up the age of the earth do YOU use? What some MAN told you??? If you are a Christian then what better source to age the earth with, than from the words of the ONE WHO MADE IT, not from someone that probably doesn't even know the maker???? Have you personally carbon dated the earth? Do you have the equipment to perform carbon dating? Are 100% certain that the scientist have the method that is 100% accurate in ageing the earth? I can answer that for you. NO YOU DO NOT!
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 3:27:30 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
Most Christians I know of (and I would dare say most Christians in general) accept that the world is FAR older than 10,000 years, or that dinosaurs were never on Noah's Ark, or things of that nature. It doesn't invalidate the idea of God being directly involved in the creation of this universe; simply that He took His own time in doing things and did things His way.
That's what the public schools teach, and they don't allow Creationism be taught. They practically hyperventilate over "Intelligent Design" because it might give the other side of the story and there have been lawsuits to keep it out. Funny how 110 years ago Creationism was taught in all American schools and the Evolutionists were saying "Please let us give our side of the story." Now they do everything they can to keep Creationism out of the schools.
When I taught school, I'd tell the kids they had to be able to regurgitate this stuff on the tests I had to give, but I made it clear that I thought it was hilarious. I expected to be fired any day for it, and was amazed I lasted long enough to quit (when I was pregnant).
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I'm not even suggesting that God didn't create Adam and Eve, or that there wasn't a Garden of Eden. I'm just bothered by the idea that people will use such methods as adding up the ages of all the patriarch in the Bible and considering that a good source for guessing how old the Earth is.
Looking for information in God's Word beats dating the fossils by the rock layers that are dated by the fossils that are dated by the rock....
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Yes, I am a Christian, and I have stated such. You've responded to posts of mine in the past in regards to this. Did you read any of them?
I'm sorry, TorchHeart, I have a lousy memory and "people" things don't stick well with me. My forte is numbers and such (yeah, you're right, I'm not a big hit at parties).
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Are you comfortable holding a point of view that leans away from biblical interpretation and falls in line with the evolution religion? Can you support your stance with solid hermeneutics of Scripture and show where evolutionists are actually right with their incredible claims in some areas?
Completely comfortable. And I don't believe that my thinking this way makes me un-Christian or falls away from Biblical interpretation, necessarily.
And while I will freely admit that I am probably outmatched by you in this debate (and I'll even admit that I'm out-matched by a VAST distance), I believe that I can. Instead of debate, I'm simply going to urge you to look at the website I pointed out.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
I don't expect it to make people believe that we're all a bunch of monkeys (I don't believe that either), but I do think that there needs to be a compromise between what we know from science and what we know from the Bible to lead to a truer understanding of the world that God gave us.
In an honest debate, a person doesn't need a big education to hold up their point, they just need to know how to build an argument (Toast Masters was a great start for me) and credible references from someone who knows what they're talking about and has the reputation to back it up. You gave me a link and I will be on that (probably tomorrow night - we have a dinner to go to tonight and then a fence to finish putting up tonight and all tomorrow).
I'm not taking advantage of you. Face to face, you're probably a lot bigger than me, and I'd expect you to not try to intimidate me either. Everyone gets their fair say, when it's done right.
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It seemed you were saying I didn't sound like I had much education. If I have misunderstood you, I profoundly apologize. Please forgive me.
No, it wasn't that you sounded stupid in other posts; I simply wouldn't have guessed from them that you had that kind of back ground, and applied a stereotype. Perhaps I am the one who should look for an apology?
Well, there's no hard feelings here, and I don't like it when I accidently hurt anyone else's feelings. It's a friendly debate, and hopefully a few people are enjoying this and maybe even learning something, positive or negative. There have been discussions on this forum where I had to change my mind about things. Live and learn. 
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Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 3:28:14 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
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What METHOD of adding up the age of the earth do YOU use? What some MAN told you??? If you are a Christian then what better source to age the earth with, than from the words of the ONE WHO MADE IT, not from someone that probably doesn't even know the maker???? Have you personally carbon dated the earth? Do you have the equipment to perform carbon dating? Are 100% certain that the scientist have the method that is 100% accurate in ageing the earth? I can answer that for you. NO YOU DO NOT!
You're adding up the age of the Earth based on the way some man told you to do it. A method that was developed in around the 18th century, if I recall right. And as I stated before, that method doesn't work because we don't know anything about how long the Garden of Eden was in existance, or how long God allowed Adam and Eve to be in there prior to "The Fall," or what happened outside of the Garden of Eden (if Adam and Eve could be cast out of it, it obviously didn't encompass the entire world. Thus its logical to assume that there were animals and plants living outside of the Garden of Eden).
As for being 100% certain of the the scientific method used to date the Earth, I am. Just as you are certain of your method.
I'm not even going to bother to address the rest of your comment, since you only know about me what you've read from me on this website, and that makes everything else you've said baseless. I think you need to calm down.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 9/12/2008 3:44:27 PM >
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RE: Animals weren't always carnivores and on the new ea... - 9/12/2008 3:39:53 PM
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mvic
Posts: 1543
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: online
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Deermousie:
"That's what the public schools teach, and they don't allow Creationism be taught. They practically hyperventilate over "Intelligent Design" because it might give the other side of the story and there have been lawsuits to keep it out. Funny how 110 years ago Creationism was taught in all American schools and the Evolutionists were saying "Please let us give our side of the story." Now they do everything they can to keep Creationism out of the schools."
You may be interested in this link from the UK. Someone calling for Creationism to be taught in science lessons:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7612152.stm
P.S. Tried to PM you and failed. Your INBOX is full.
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