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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:18:56 AM
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P31W
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quote:
No, we're complaining about the sort of mischaracterizations LIKE YOU JUST DID RIGHT HERE;
The first line of this thread.
A few posters, myself included, have questioned why so many conservatives are so mean-spirited and full of hatred when discussing political issues.
Dan can YOU SEE what we conservatives see or it is ONLY us on the inside of the conservative camp who see it?
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:22:53 AM
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Sophie11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
It's dishonest for an outsider to only criticize one group's behavior. It's not dishonest to criticize from within. If you see those in your group not living up to the ideals that they claim to believe in, there's nothing dishonest about focusing only on them, calling for improvement from within. It's not saying "YOU should be better than this." It's saying, "WE should be better than this." There is a difference.
-Dan.
Iluvatar, the OP is certainly not criticizing the conservatives from within. That is the difference.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:24:25 AM
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Sophie11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
It's dishonest for an outsider to only criticize one group's behavior. It's not dishonest to criticize from within. If you see those in your group not living up to the ideals that they claim to believe in, there's nothing dishonest about focusing only on them, calling for improvement from within. It's not saying "YOU should be better than this." It's saying, "WE should be better than this." There is a difference.
In what way, other than being a Christian, is the OP a criticism from 'within'?
In what other way does it matter?
-Dan.
Because the OP sets up the argument as a conservative vs. liberal attitude, so the political leanings of those involved certainly come into play along with their Christianity.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:35:13 AM
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P31W
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Evangel70 does not realize he is the pot calling the kettle black. Shame he left otherwise he might realize something about "himself". Because he used so much scripture I cannot help but think of one he missed. Remove the plank in your own eye THEN try to remove the splinter out of your neighbors.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:46:23 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7833
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
In what other way does it matter?
It matters greatly; there is no policing whatsoever of the left on the net, and well funded attack organizations post lies and smears which have been repeted in this forum; when I see you or the OP address this, I will believe you really care about reasonable discourse.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:46:39 AM
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SwedishCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
The abortion party has given us 50 million dead, but it's conservatives who are mean. If conservatives are mean, what do you call people who demand legalized dismemberment, disembowlment and sucking the brains out of babies?
The Republican Party had control of Congress for fourteen years, and control of BOTH houses of Congress AND the Presidency for six of those years - and yet they did NOTHING to outlaw abortion.
To call the Democrats the 'abortion party' is simply lying by telling only part of the truth - and the truth in THIS case is that BOTH major parties are red-handed to the elbow.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:48:41 AM
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P31W
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quote:
There plenty of moral Athiests out there
Let's examine this. Moral means what is right and what is wrong behavior. By defination I believe athiest.....well you know don't you.
quote:
People in power love it when we point the finger at each other...just don't point it at them.
Here we agree completely.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:48:47 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7833
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
The Republican Party had control of Congress for fourteen years, and control of BOTH houses of Congress AND the Presidency for six of those years - and yet they did NOTHING to outlaw abortion.
To call the Democrats the 'abortion party' is simply lying by telling only part of the truth - and the truth in THIS case is that BOTH major parties are red-handed to the elbow.
Neither the President nor congress can 'outlaw abortions' so this is a straw man. They have done a number of things to limit abortions, which Democrats opposed. And this has occured frequently at the state level as well, again, a Republican initiative.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:50:25 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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quote:
It matters greatly; there is no policing whatsoever of the left on the net, and well funded attack organizations post lies and smears which have been repeted in this forum; when I see you or the OP address this, I will believe you really care about reasonable discourse.
Tell it like it is Jack!!!!
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:51:54 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Neither the President nor congress can 'outlaw abortions' so this is a straw man. They have done a number of things to limit abortions, which Democrats opposed. And this has occured frequently at the state level as well, again, a Republican initiative.
Again speaking the truth man!
Here in Miss. we have done many things to make getting an abortion "on demand" as hard as possible. It's the Republicans and Independants who are doing this....while the democrats are working hard to overturn everthing we are doing.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:53:27 AM
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P31W
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quote:
The Republican Party had control of Congress for fourteen years, and control of BOTH houses of Congress AND the Presidency for six of those years - and yet they did NOTHING to outlaw abortion.
Abortions for medical reasons, incest and rape have NEVER been against the law in this country.
Roe v Wade is about "abortion on demand" for any reason or no reason at all.
I for one do not want to "outlaw" all abortions. I do however want to see RvW overturned.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 10:58:10 AM
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SwedishCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
The Republican Party had control of Congress for fourteen years, and control of BOTH houses of Congress AND the Presidency for six of those years - and yet they did NOTHING to outlaw abortion.
To call the Democrats the 'abortion party' is simply lying by telling only part of the truth - and the truth in THIS case is that BOTH major parties are red-handed to the elbow.
Neither the President nor congress can 'outlaw abortions' so this is a straw man. They have done a number of things to limit abortions, which Democrats opposed. And this has occured frequently at the state level as well, again, a Republican initiative.
it is your contention then, that Congress cannot propose legislation nor the President sign it? You might try reading Articles one through three of a document you may have heard of, but obviously never read, the US Constitution.
Or perhaps you maintain that Congress could not have proposed an Amendment to the Constitition to outlaw abortion. if so, here's another part of that same document that you might want to discover:
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate [Possibly abrogated by Amendment XVII].
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 11:02:39 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7833
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
it is your contention then, that Congress cannot propose legislation nor the President sign it? You might try reading Articles one through three of a document you may have heard of, but obviously never read, the US Constitution.
Or perhaps you maintain that Congress could not have proposed an Amendment to the Constitition to outlaw abortion. if so, here's another part of that same document that you might want to discover:
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate [Possibly abrogated by Amendment XVII].
I know mathematics may not be everyone's strong suit, but when did Republicans ever have two thirds majorities in both houses?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 11:03:39 AM
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Sophie11
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Could we all please NOT turn this thread into another abortion debate?
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 11:17:38 AM
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P31W
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Yep! Let's keep this a bash Conservative thread like the OP intended! 
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 12:20:38 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
it is your contention then, that Congress cannot propose legislation nor the President sign it? You might try reading Articles one through three of a document you may have heard of, but obviously never read, the US Constitution.
Or perhaps you maintain that Congress could not have proposed an Amendment to the Constitition to outlaw abortion. if so, here's another part of that same document that you might want to discover:
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate [Possibly abrogated by Amendment XVII].
I know mathematics may not be everyone's strong suit, but when did Republicans ever have two thirds majorities in both houses?
What part of "propose" do you not understand?
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 12:49:11 PM
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Sophie11
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It just amazes me the way some seem to stop at nothing in order to criticize the opposition. Maybe it's just me, but even though I don't appreciate the way the OP formed the basis of the thread (an obvious jab at conservatives), I will still take the time to reflect on the greater message in the post, which is that it is a shame that most everyone participating in the elections folder has gotten so rude lately.
It seems there is not a topic left that would be safe from some people's bickering and condescending tones.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 12:55:11 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
The abortion party has given us 50 million dead, but it's conservatives who are mean. If conservatives are mean, what do you call people who demand legalized dismemberment, disembowlment and sucking the brains out of babies?
The Republican Party had control of Congress for fourteen years, and control of BOTH houses of Congress AND the Presidency for six of those years - and yet they did NOTHING to outlaw abortion.
To call the Democrats the 'abortion party' is simply lying by telling only part of the truth - and the truth in THIS case is that BOTH major parties are red-handed to the elbow.
- Mexico city policy
- Laci and Conner Peterson Act
- Partial Birth abortion ban
- Hyde Amendment
- Federal judicial appointments
- UN policies
Off the top of my head, those are Republican accomplishments. They protect innocent human beings from the abortion party. Possibly one million lives have been saved because of the Hyde amendment alone.
50 million dead and Democrats haven't had enough.
How many millions will it take to satisfy you?
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 12:56:35 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
I will still take the time to reflect on the greater message in the post, which is that it is a shame that most everyone participating in the elections folder has gotten so rude lately.
The conservative folder is a folder for people who are not easily offended. At least that is what I discovered a couple of years ago "long before the presidential stuff began'. As for me I like this section of the forum.
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 1:48:53 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
The abortion party has given us 50 million dead, but it's conservatives who are mean. If conservatives are mean, what do you call people who demand legalized dismemberment, disembowlment and sucking the brains out of babies?
The Republican Party had control of Congress for fourteen years, and control of BOTH houses of Congress AND the Presidency for six of those years - and yet they did NOTHING to outlaw abortion.
To call the Democrats the 'abortion party' is simply lying by telling only part of the truth - and the truth in THIS case is that BOTH major parties are red-handed to the elbow.
- Mexico city policy
- Laci and Conner Peterson Act
- Partial Birth abortion ban
- Hyde Amendment
- Federal judicial appointments
- UN policies
Off the top of my head, those are Republican accomplishments. They protect innocent human beings from the abortion party. Possibly one million lives have been saved because of the Hyde amendment alone.
50 million dead and Democrats haven't had enough.
How many millions will it take to satisfy you?
if the GOP has been so effective in combatting abortion, why is it still an issue?
Answer - because the GOP has really not been at all very effective in ending abortion.
But they HAVE been very good at making it THE hot-button topic for energizing a critical portion of their base.
When are you pro-lifers going to realize that the GOP plays you like hooked trout on this issue, have done so for decades, and will continue to do so - in order to be RE-ELECTED, not to actually do anything about the issue?
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RE: Conservatives, Christianity & Politics - 9/12/2008 1:50:22 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7833
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
What part of "propose" do you not understand?
What part of 'it's already been proposed' don't you understand?
Several different Human Life Amendments have been proposed in Congress since 1973, with twenty total days of hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1974, 1975, and 1981, several other hearings before other committees, and a number of floor debates. Between 1973 and 2003, the National Committee for a Human Life Amendment reports a total of 330 proprosals using varying texts, with most dying in committee. The only version of the Human Life Amendment to reach a formal floor vote was the Hatch-Eagleton Amendment, which failed by a vote of 49-50 on June 28, 1983.
Human Life Amendment
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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