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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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What part of "propose" do you not understand?

What part of 'it's already been proposed' don't you understand?

Several different Human Life Amendments have been proposed in Congress since 1973, with twenty total days of hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1974, 1975, and 1981, several other hearings before other committees, and a number of floor debates. Between 1973 and 2003, the National Committee for a Human Life Amendment reports a total of 330 proprosals using varying texts, with most dying in committee. The only version of the Human Life Amendment to reach a formal floor vote was the Hatch-Eagleton Amendment, which failed by a vote of 49-50 on June 28, 1983.


Human Life Amendment

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if the GOP has been so effective in combatting abortion, why is it still an issue?

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Answer - because the GOP has really not been at all very effective in ending abortion.

But they HAVE been very good at making it THE hot-button topic for energizing a critical portion of their base.

When are you pro-lifers going to realize that the GOP plays you like hooked trout on this issue, have done so for decades, and will continue to do so - in order to be RE-ELECTED, not to actually do anything about the issue?

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ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

What part of "propose" do you not understand?

What part of 'it's already been proposed' don't you understand?

Several different Human Life Amendments have been proposed in Congress since 1973, with twenty total days of hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1974, 1975, and 1981, several other hearings before other committees, and a number of floor debates. Between 1973 and 2003, the National Committee for a Human Life Amendment reports a total of 330 proprosals using varying texts, with most dying in committee. The only version of the Human Life Amendment to reach a formal floor vote was the Hatch-Eagleton Amendment, which failed by a vote of 49-50 on June 28, 1983.


Human Life Amendment

And these are the people you expect to solve what you perceive as a problem?

"Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over with any expectation of different results" - popularly attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

Vote for McCAin - and expect to still be having this same discussion four years, ten years, thirty years from now.

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A few posters, myself included, have questioned why so many conservatives are so mean-spirited and full of hatred when discussing political issues.

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if the GOP has been so effective in combatting abortion, why is it still an issue?

Answer - because the GOP has really not been at all very effective in ending abortion.

But they HAVE been very good at making it THE hot-button topic for energizing a critical portion of their base.

When are you pro-lifers going to realize that the GOP plays you like hooked trout on this issue, have done so for decades, and will continue to do so - in order to be RE-ELECTED, not to actually do anything about the issue?

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And these are the people you expect to solve what you perceive as a problem?

"Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over with any expectation of different results" - popularly attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

Vote for McCAin - and expect to still be having this same discussion four years, ten years, thirty years from now.

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ORIGINAL: P31W

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I will still take the time to reflect on the greater message in the post, which is that it is a shame that most everyone participating in the elections folder has gotten so rude lately.

The conservative folder is a folder for people who are not easily offended. At least that is what I discovered a couple of years ago "long before the presidential stuff began'. As for me I like this section of the forum.

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ORIGINAL: ken1906_4

Well here is my take. Some conservatives (and some liberals) have bought into this American/European brand of Christianity. Ever since Constantine embraced Christianity for political reasons, the centuries that follow our faith has been used as a tool for gaining worldly power, obtaining worldly wealth, an excuse for starting wars, an excuse to oppress others based on race, class and religion, and way to negatively control the masses. I still stick to my opinion that the early Christians were the ones who got it right and many of us (including myself) got so terribly wrong. What we have done to the Christian faith both conservatives and liberals in this country and on this board is embarrassing. We sit here bickering and attacking each other over political figures and political party’s and their respective ideologies and try to equate that to being a Christian or not a Christian. It’s like we have more faith in our party affiliation and political figures than we have in God. Mean spirited? Yes in some ways not only to each other within the body of Christ, but those outside the body of Christ also, all because others don’t support a certain political party or candidate. Conservatives, I hate to break this to you but we by no means have a monopoly on God. Just because many of us are against abortion and gay marriage is not going to get us any closer to Heaven. Our walk is all about our personal relationship with the Father through our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ and loving our friends and enemies. Everything else we do fall under that umbrella. This condescending, mean spirited attitude toward those who may not have the same belief system, opinions or political ideology is not Christian in fact it kind of remind me of the Pharisee. To keep it real and simple as a Christian we are commanded to love God, love our neighbor (friend and enemy), lovingly spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, make new disciples and of course obey. We are suppose to be planters for Jesus by planting those seeds of the gospel to the unbeliever, the back slider, and the unsure and pray that those seeds will grow within their spirit. Its sad that we here on Crosswalk and out in the real world are talking down and talking bad about people who don’t share the same political views, but then to make matters worse we turn around and start questioning people’s salvation, faith and relationship with God. WE don’t have a heaven or hell to put anyone in. That is not our place. WE are not God and honestly, we need to stop trying to be Him. I even say that about myself because there have been those on this board who have ****ed (excuse my language) me off and I have said some things in response I had no business saying. I can see why people outside the body think we are a bunch of mean spirited hypocrites because honestly we are putting ourselves out on Front Street with the way we openly act towards each other and the way we marginalize those outside of what we believe in.

Now about these political party’s, all I can say and I said it earlier in my post conservatives do not have a monopoly on God because the people we are condemning to hell some of us going to be right there along with them. Sitting in hell being tormented, grinding your teeth and wondering what happen, “I voted republican, I was against abortion, and gay marriage.” This Christian walk is so much bigger than this and now that many of us have politicized our faith by equating it to a political ideology we are no better than the Pharisee or the world that Jesus was against. Another thing that irritates me about many of us is fear. Some talk about how Obama and/or McCain scare them. SCARED?!?!? What the heck are you afraid of, God did not give us a spirit of fear so why are people scared of these men? Why are we giving them so much power?
We should only fear God. If God put Obama or McCain as president then so be it. If your candidate does not get in, so what!!!! Trust in God that He will guide the mind, heart and spirit of these leaders. That’s all you can do. Anyway, we (including myself) need to get it together because right now we are setting a very poor example and we are not only turning off those within our faith, but we are turning off those who are on the verge in becoming a new believer, the person who want to escape the world and possibly find peace in Christ, but unsure in what to do. WE need to be better than this.

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ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

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ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

The abortion party has given us 50 million dead, but it's conservatives who are mean. If conservatives are mean, what do you call people who demand legalized dismemberment, disembowlment and sucking the brains out of babies?

The Republican Party had control of Congress for fourteen years, and control of BOTH houses of Congress AND the Presidency for six of those years - and yet they did NOTHING to outlaw abortion.

To call the Democrats the 'abortion party' is simply lying by telling only part of the truth - and the truth in THIS case is that BOTH major parties are red-handed to the elbow.

- Mexico city policy
- Laci and Conner Peterson Act
- Partial Birth abortion ban
- Hyde Amendment
- Federal judicial appointments
- UN policies

Off the top of my head, those are Republican accomplishments. They protect innocent human beings from the abortion party. Possibly one million lives have been saved because of the Hyde amendment alone.

50 million dead and Democrats haven't had enough.

How many millions will it take to satisfy you?

if the GOP has been so effective in combatting abortion, why is it still an issue?

Answer - because the GOP has really not been at all very effective in ending abortion.

But they HAVE been very good at making it THE hot-button topic for energizing a critical portion of their base.

When are you pro-lifers going to realize that the GOP plays you like hooked trout on this issue, have done so for decades, and will continue to do so - in order to be RE-ELECTED, not to actually do anything about the issue?

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ORIGINAL: WesP

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ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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What part of "propose" do you not understand?

What part of 'it's already been proposed' don't you understand?

Several different Human Life Amendments have been proposed in Congress since 1973, with twenty total days of hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1974, 1975, and 1981, several other hearings before other committees, and a number of floor debates. Between 1973 and 2003, the National Committee for a Human Life Amendment reports a total of 330 proprosals using varying texts, with most dying in committee. The only version of the Human Life Amendment to reach a formal floor vote was the Hatch-Eagleton Amendment, which failed by a vote of 49-50 on June 28, 1983.


Human Life Amendment

And these are the people you expect to solve what you perceive as a problem?

"Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over with any expectation of different results" - popularly attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

Vote for McCAin - and expect to still be having this same discussion four years, ten years, thirty years from now.

If you have enough people who believe the same thing, laws can be passed or changed to reflect that belief.

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Which pretty well shoots down the argument that one has to have a 2/3 Republican majority to pass a Constitutional amendment, which was somebody's argument earlier onthis subject.

Gee, i wonder who that could have been?

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ORIGINAL: WesP

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if the GOP has been so effective in combatting abortion, why is it still an issue?

No one has taken this stance.

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ORIGINAL: WesP

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Which pretty well shoots down the argument that one has to have a 2/3 Republican majority to pass a Constitutional amendment, which was somebody's argument earlier onthis subject.

Gee, i wonder who that could have been?

How so? 2/3 is enough. Less is not. A 5 to 4 SC decision is enough; less is not.

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Guess again - one of your fellow right-to-lifers, ljmac, in the post TO WHICH IWAS RESPONDING, made that exact assertion:

"Off the top of my head, (following a rather lengthy list) those are Republican accomplishments. "

It would be a lot easier to deal with whatever position it is that right to lifers are proposing, if you would manage to have some sort of consistency in your statements. When fifty different rtl's make 50 different conflicting statements, it reduces ALL of them to gibberish.

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ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant

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ORIGINAL: WesP

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Which pretty well shoots down the argument that one has to have a 2/3 Republican majority to pass a Constitutional amendment, which was somebody's argument earlier onthis subject.

Gee, i wonder who that could have been?

How so? 2/3 is enough. Less is not. A 5 to 4 SC decision is enough; less is not.

The point being that one can have the 2/3 majority of Congress to pass an amandment WITHOUT having one PARTY with 2/3 majority of the seats.

here's a quick homework assignment for you - find ANY Constitutional amendment which has EVER passed Congress on a strictly party-line vote.

It's never been done - which reduces your 'must have 2/3 of one party' assertion to the straw man you knew it to be when you stated it.

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ORIGINAL: ManimalX

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ORIGINAL: everythingat
All the posts above me, including Evangel's. Liberals: "It's not my fault, the conservatives are mean." And conservatives: "If you take a few seconds, you'll see that it's not our fault and most of the rudeness comes from liberals." Yep.

Only one of those statements can be true. Which one would you say it is?

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if the GOP has been so effective in combating abortion, why is it still an issue?

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Bush's Pro-Life Record as of May 18, 2004, by Fr. Peter West
Private e-mail of Fr. Peter West ^ | 05.18.04 | Fr. Peter West

Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:44:55 PM by Coleus

Below is a list of President Bush's pro-life efforts and accomplishments in regard to protecting children in the womb and promoting the sanctity of life. I include some accomplishments in other areas but mostly focus on his pro-life record. This list is by no means comprehensive. When considering other issues much more could be added to the list of positive things that Bush has done since he has been in office.

I started to compile this list shortly after the President was reinaugurated after hearing from many, who consider themselves pro-life, that Bush was not really pro-life. I disagreed and began compiling this list. I had no idea when I started that it would be so long.

Some may ask if President Bush is so pro-life why hasn't abortion ended. President Bush has not had an opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court Justice. Also, in practically every effort to protect the unborn President Bush has been opposed mostly by pro-abortion Democrats.

Is President Bush perfect? No. Do I agree with him on everything? No. But I look at his overall record and consider the alternative. Senator Kerry is a pro-abortion extremist. He has pledged to only appoint pro-abortion judges to the Supreme Court who will uphold Roe vs. Wade.

I plan to vote for President Bush for re-election and I hope you will do the same.

Fr. Peter West

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ORIGINAL: WesP

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ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant


It's never been done - which reduces your 'must have 2/3 of one party' assertion to the straw man you knew it to be when you stated it.

Granted, the majority does not have to be all Republican. You are the one who claimed partisan achievement and lack thereof, so I simply used what you stated. It does have to be a majority of people who agree with the (primarily) Republican opinions.

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ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

The abortion party has given us 50 million dead, but it's conservatives who are mean. If conservatives are mean, what do you call people who demand legalized dismemberment, disembowlment and sucking the brains out of babies?

The Republican Party had control of Congress for fourteen years, and control of BOTH houses of Congress AND the Presidency for six of those years - and yet they did NOTHING to outlaw abortion.

To call the Democrats the 'abortion party' is simply lying by telling only part of the truth - and the truth in THIS case is that BOTH major parties are red-handed to the elbow.

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: Sophie11

The mischaracterizations and attacks are being felt on BOTH sides. Liberals are labeled as baby killers and cowards, and conservatives are labeled as greedy uncaring capitalist scum. It depends on which side you're on as to what you will be named, but I have seen many comments coming out of both liberals and conservatives. It is certainly not one-sided.

Amongst the general populace, yes. On this message board, no. Probably because this board is overwhelmingly conservative, there's a greater likelihood of having nutty right-winger posting than there is of having nutty left-winger. But no, the amount of vitriol on this message board does not come from both sides equally.

In particular, though, this thread is about Christianity and politics. Christians SHOULD be better than this. Christians SHOULD be above this. Even if the criticism is only directed at Christians, so what? If we claim to follow all of these moral imperatives, why not take some legitimate criticism? Why not step back and look at yourself? Why not take the high road instead of consistently making excusing for taking the low road?

-Dan.

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That is pretty much all anyone who supports the pro-life position needs to know.