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If the shoe was on the other foot(if Obama had a teen daughter), there would be hundreds of threads talking about it.

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ORIGINAL: ken1906_4

Well here is my take. Some conservatives (and some liberals) have bought into this American/European brand of Christianity. Ever since Constantine embraced Christianity for political reasons, the centuries that follow our faith has been used as a tool for gaining worldly power, obtaining worldly wealth, an excuse for starting wars, an excuse to oppress others based on race, class and religion, and way to negatively control the masses. I still stick to my opinion that the early Christians were the ones who got it right and many of us (including myself) got so terribly wrong. What we have done to the Christian faith both conservatives and liberals in this country and on this board is embarrassing. We sit here bickering and attacking each other over political figures and political party�s and their respective ideologies and try to equate that to being a Christian or not a Christian. It�s like we have more faith in our party affiliation and political figures than we have in God. Mean spirited? Yes in some ways not only to each other within the body of Christ, but those outside the body of Christ also, all because others don�t support a certain political party or candidate. Conservatives, I hate to break this to you but we by no means have a monopoly on God. Just because many of us are against abortion and gay marriage is not going to get us any closer to Heaven. Our walk is all about our personal relationship with the Father through our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ and loving our friends and enemies. Everything else we do fall under that umbrella. This condescending, mean spirited attitude toward those who may not have the same belief system, opinions or political ideology is not Christian in fact it kind of remind me of the Pharisee. To keep it real and simple as a Christian we are commanded to love God, love our neighbor (friend and enemy), lovingly spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, make new disciples and of course obey. We are suppose to be planters for Jesus by planting those seeds of the gospel to the unbeliever, the back slider, and the unsure and pray that those seeds will grow within their spirit. Its sad that we here on Crosswalk and out in the real world are talking down and talking bad about people who don�t share the same political views, but then to make matters worse we turn around and start questioning people�s salvation, faith and relationship with God. WE don�t have a heaven or hell to put anyone in. That is not our place. WE are not God and honestly, we need to stop trying to be Him. I even say that about myself because there have been those on this board who have ****ed (excuse my language) me off and I have said some things in response I had no business saying. I can see why people outside the body think we are a bunch of mean spirited hypocrites because honestly we are putting ourselves out on Front Street with the way we openly act towards each other and the way we marginalize those outside of what we believe in.

Now about these political party�s, all I can say and I said it earlier in my post conservatives do not have a monopoly on God because the people we are condemning to hell some of us going to be right there along with them. Sitting in hell being tormented, grinding your teeth and wondering what happen, �I voted republican, I was against abortion, and gay marriage.� This Christian walk is so much bigger than this and now that many of us have politicized our faith by equating it to a political ideology we are no better than the Pharisee or the world that Jesus was against. Another thing that irritates me about many of us is fear. Some talk about how Obama and/or McCain scare them. SCARED?!?!? What the heck are you afraid of, God did not give us a spirit of fear so why are people scared of these men? Why are we giving them so much power?
We should only fear God. If God put Obama or McCain as president then so be it. If your candidate does not get in, so what!!!! Trust in God that He will guide the mind, heart and spirit of these leaders. That�s all you can do. Anyway, we (including myself) need to get it together because right now we are setting a very poor example and we are not only turning off those within our faith, but we are turning off those who are on the verge in becoming a new believer, the person who want to escape the world and possibly find peace in Christ, but unsure in what to do. WE need to be better than this.

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ORIGINAL: huangshan

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

Bill Clinton's history of being not so nice to women isn't a private matter...

...because it was made public, yes.

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For republican christians, many (not all) are silent on the way the bible says to treat foreigners in our country or on discrimination. Why

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For democrat christians, many (not all) are silent on abortion.

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We can be political - there is nothing wrong with supporting a particular party or ideology

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Hello everyone (this is my first time posting). I am a conservative, evangelical Christian who was leaning towards McCain, until recently. Now I'm a strong supporter of Obama and I plan on going canvassing for his campaign.

I think Republicans have hijacked the evangelical movement for their own political aims. How many of you are voting solely on the abortion issue? For a while I was�even though it wasn't clear how McCain felt about it, I figured he'd do a better job than Obama, and that was the only reason I was leaning towards him. Then he nominated Palin, and at first I was really excited about finally having "one of us."

But then McCain's campaign started lying. Every time I watch TV, McCain or one of his aides is telling a lie or trying to wiggle out of the truth�about Obama's tax plan, about the Bridge to Nowhere, about Obama's sex education plan. And when I watch Palin, she's not any better�she outright lied about supporting the Bridge to Nowhere on the ABC interview.

I believe in following the Ten Commandments, including "You shall not bear false witness." I realized a couple days ago that after 16 years of lying Clintons and Bushes, we've all gotten so used to the idea of politicians lying through their teeth that it's just something that we accept. But I was really hoping that McCain would run an honorable campaign, and that Sarah Palin would be different. They aren't, and the fact that they lied to me makes me doubt that they're actually going to do anything about the abortion issue at all.

I don't agree with Obama about abortion, but he is a Christian, and he has been much more honest than John McCain has, so I believe him when he says he wants to work together with us to make abortions rarer. In fact, I don't even think the Republicans are interested at all in reversing Roe vs. Wade�if abortions weren't legal anymore then WHY WOULD ANY OF US VOTE REPUBLICAN? It's in the Republican party's interest to keep abortions legal because that's the only reason us Christians vote Republican!

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he is a Christian

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Obama is from the faith called Black Liberation Theology. Why do you consider that to be Christian?

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ORIGINAL: rgod

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ORIGINAL: ken1906_4

Well here is my take. Some conservatives (and some liberals) have bought into this American/European brand of Christianity. Ever since Constantine embraced Christianity for political reasons, the centuries that follow our faith has been used as a tool for gaining worldly power, obtaining worldly wealth, an excuse for starting wars, an excuse to oppress others based on race, class and religion, and way to negatively control the masses. I still stick to my opinion that the early Christians were the ones who got it right and many of us (including myself) got so terribly wrong. What we have done to the Christian faith both conservatives and liberals in this country and on this board is embarrassing. We sit here bickering and attacking each other over political figures and political party�s and their respective ideologies and try to equate that to being a Christian or not a Christian. It�s like we have more faith in our party affiliation and political figures than we have in God. Mean spirited? Yes in some ways not only to each other within the body of Christ, but those outside the body of Christ also, all because others don�t support a certain political party or candidate. Conservatives, I hate to break this to you but we by no means have a monopoly on God. Just because many of us are against abortion and gay marriage is not going to get us any closer to Heaven. Our walk is all about our personal relationship with the Father through our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ and loving our friends and enemies. Everything else we do fall under that umbrella. This condescending, mean spirited attitude toward those who may not have the same belief system, opinions or political ideology is not Christian in fact it kind of remind me of the Pharisee. To keep it real and simple as a Christian we are commanded to love God, love our neighbor (friend and enemy), lovingly spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, make new disciples and of course obey. We are suppose to be planters for Jesus by planting those seeds of the gospel to the unbeliever, the back slider, and the unsure and pray that those seeds will grow within their spirit. Its sad that we here on Crosswalk and out in the real world are talking down and talking bad about people who don�t share the same political views, but then to make matters worse we turn around and start questioning people�s salvation, faith and relationship with God. WE don�t have a heaven or hell to put anyone in. That is not our place. WE are not God and honestly, we need to stop trying to be Him. I even say that about myself because there have been those on this board who have ****ed (excuse my language) me off and I have said some things in response I had no business saying. I can see why people outside the body think we are a bunch of mean spirited hypocrites because honestly we are putting ourselves out on Front Street with the way we openly act towards each other and the way we marginalize those outside of what we believe in.

Now about these political party�s, all I can say and I said it earlier in my post conservatives do not have a monopoly on God because the people we are condemning to hell some of us going to be right there along with them. Sitting in hell being tormented, grinding your teeth and wondering what happen, �I voted republican, I was against abortion, and gay marriage.� This Christian walk is so much bigger than this and now that many of us have politicized our faith by equating it to a political ideology we are no better than the Pharisee or the world that Jesus was against. Another thing that irritates me about many of us is fear. Some talk about how Obama and/or McCain scare them. SCARED?!?!? What the heck are you afraid of, God did not give us a spirit of fear so why are people scared of these men? Why are we giving them so much power?
We should only fear God. If God put Obama or McCain as president then so be it. If your candidate does not get in, so what!!!! Trust in God that He will guide the mind, heart and spirit of these leaders. That�s all you can do. Anyway, we (including myself) need to get it together because right now we are setting a very poor example and we are not only turning off those within our faith, but we are turning off those who are on the verge in becoming a new believer, the person who want to escape the world and possibly find peace in Christ, but unsure in what to do. WE need to be better than this.

Ken - this was a great post and I agree with you 100%. I would add that some of this occurs on the liberal side as well. The thing that disturbs me every single time that I see it, is when a person implies that if you vote democrat then you are not a christian. (Democrats, generally don't say that to conservatives, but they are guilty of other things - like assuming that all conservatives are heartless, racist, hypocrites - and we know that is not the case.) I feel like in many ways, many christians elevate political ideologies and party ABOVE God - to the point that we slander each other and even speak to one another as if we hate one another. It causes division in the body and causes us to be quiet on unbiblical positions. For democrat christians, many (not all) are silent on abortion. For republican christians, many (not all) are silent on the way the bible says to treat foreigners in our country or on discrimination. Why? Because we don't want to offend the party. This should not be.

Instead, we need to be worried about not offending God.

Disunity in the body offends God. Hating and slandering our brothers and sisters offends God. Partiality and party-spirit (criticizing one set of people if they do something, but excusing others because you agree with their political leanings) offends God. Preaching another gospel - one that says you are a Christian if you believe in Christ and the evidence of this is that you vote Republican (or Democrat) is offensive to God. We can be political - there is nothing wrong with supporting a particular party or ideology - or even feeling strongly about it based on scripture. But first and foremost we are Christians because of our acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. So we should not say that another person isn't saved simply because we differ politically.

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I'm not going to pretend I understand the black church, I don't think any of us do. But are you saying that black people can't be Christians? That they can't take messages from the Gospels and apply them to their own lives and struggles? It's easy to look down on people who are different then you, but I've learned not to be so quick to judge my brothers and sisters in Christ.

And anyway, it's not like Obama just blindly follows everything his pastor says. How many of you blindly follow your pastors?

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But don't you think people can use the Gospel to apply to their own specific lives? Not even just the Gospel�Paul, the Old Testament, there are so many different ideas and so much wisdom in the Bible, I can definitely see how a black church could relate to the struggles of the Hebrews in Exodus, or the struggles of the disciples under Roman occupation. I mean, I don't think blacks have it nearly as bad, but racism is still a big issue today, and there's nothing wrong with praying to God in the same context that the apostles prayed to God.

There's also no young or old Gospel, no 1400's or 2000's Gospel, but that doesn't mean that different people won't relate more to one part than another. For my part, I have trouble relating to a lot of the Old Testament, and some of Paul's letters too. But I think the book of Judges is really relevant today so I've been reading that a lot. Does this mean I'm a bad Christian?

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

You forgot something...

since he's a public figure...

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I don't follow you. Brad Pitt is a public figure who--if you'll forgive me for going there--has probably had a good deal of oral sex. I don't know when, I don't know where, because it has not been publicized. I do not know this because public figures have private lives�CMTV's The Real World notwithstanding. Tabloid journalism, and in Clinton's case, tabloid politics, is what brings these otherwise private matters to the fore.

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Sure, Jesus suffered the same struggles and temptations that all humans do; but there is no specific theology that applies to one racial group - indeed, the gospel is antithetical to race based distinctions.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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I don't follow you. Brad Pitt is a public figure who--if you'll forgive me for going there--has probably had a good deal of oral sex. I don't know when, I don't know where, because it has not been publicized. I do not know this because public figures have private lives�CMTV's The Real World notwithstanding. Tabloid journalism, and in Clinton's case, tabloid politics, is what brings these otherwise private matters to the fore.

But Brad Pitt isn't an elected representative who serves based on the will and choice of the electorate; and if he were involved ina lawsuit where his private proclivities had some bearing, then lying under oath would become a public concern.

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ORIGINAL: rhippie

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: rhippie

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ORIGINAL: ken1906_4
I wish we had this much zeal against getting pregnant outside of marriage (popularized and acceptable because of Miss Bristol), fornication, adultery, pornography, and lack of guidance (spiritual and parental). Being against abortion is easy; being against some of the things that could eventually lead a young girl/lady to an abortion is much harder to deal with. Honestly we have ignored that aspect of this process because many of us within the body of Christ have those things being strongholds in our respective lives. So many of us (of course not anyone here on Crosswalk ) choose to make abortion(the end result) our 1 because it�s better and easier to deal with instead of going to the root of the problem.

This is such a gross, revolting mischaracterization of anything close to reality that I am hard pressed not to violate TOS in responding. How dare you imply that Bristol has made teen pregnancy popular and acceptable!! NO WHERE has anyone suggested such drivel! You should be ashamed of yourself for even having the audacity to say such a thing

I'd say it's about as accurate as claiming that Bill Clinton caused the nation's high schoolers to believe that oral sex isn't really sex.

Yes, I've heard that one more than once.

-Dan.

When some parents tried to speak to their daughters, the (middle school) girls shrugged off the significance of what they had done (performed oral sex). "What's the big deal? President Clinton did it," one said.

Clinton family values

I'm with Iluvutar on this one....we can't blame either of the people involved for any "increase". IMO it's nothing more than a sad commentary on the situation that anyone would even think that might be the case

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Are we talking about the black race or a certain kind of black culture?

The Gospel is for all cultures, but when you are witnessing don't you tailor what you're saying to the specific lives of the people you're talking to, so it's more relevant to them? Look at how Paul wrote his letters. Each letter is tailored for the specific culture he's writing to. He writes the Galatians to warn them about trusting too much in the Law, but he writes the Corinthians to warn them about following pagan ideas. Each letter addresses specific issues that each community is facing. And while it would be nice if all communities in the world were united and faced the same struggles, I don't think we should fault Christians like the worshippers at Trinity for tailoring their message to their own community.

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Hello everyone (this is my first time posting). I am a conservative, evangelical Christian who was leaning towards McCain, until recently. Now I'm a strong supporter of Obama and I plan on going canvassing for his campaign.

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I'm sorry, did lying under oath have any bearing on whether or not Clinton's private affairs became public? That was a political and media circus involving private matters long before he lied under oath, and I have no idea why you're bringing it up in this context except to further obfuscate the discussion.

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Wow, sounds like you're leading a brand new groundswell of grassroots support. Thanks for letting us all know.

I'm also assuming you're a longtime loyal Republican whose party left him, and became too extreme?

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ORIGINAL: YeshuaWeCan

Hello everyone (this is my first time posting). I am a conservative, evangelical Christian who was leaning towards McCain, until recently. Now I'm a strong supporter of Obama and I plan on going canvassing for his campaign.

I think Republicans have hijacked the evangelical movement for their own political aims. How many of you are voting solely on the abortion issue? For a while I was�even though it wasn't clear how McCain felt about it, I figured he'd do a better job than Obama, and that was the only reason I was leaning towards him. Then he nominated Palin, and at first I was really excited about finally having "one of us."

But then McCain's campaign started lying. Every time I watch TV, McCain or one of his aides is telling a lie or trying to wiggle out of the truth�about Obama's tax plan, about the Bridge to Nowhere, about Obama's sex education plan. And when I watch Palin, she's not any better�she outright lied about supporting the Bridge to Nowhere on the ABC interview.

I believe in following the Ten Commandments, including "You shall not bear false witness." I realized a couple days ago that after 16 years of lying Clintons and Bushes, we've all gotten so used to the idea of politicians lying through their teeth that it's just something that we accept. But I was really hoping that McCain would run an honorable campaign, and that Sarah Palin would be different. They aren't, and the fact that they lied to me makes me doubt that they're actually going to do anything about the abortion issue at all.

I don't agree with Obama about abortion, but he is a Christian, and he has been much more honest than John McCain has, so I believe him when he says he wants to work together with us to make abortions rarer. In fact, I don't even think the Republicans are interested at all in reversing Roe vs. Wade�if abortions weren't legal anymore then WHY WOULD ANY OF US VOTE REPUBLICAN? It's in the Republican party's interest to keep abortions legal because that's the only reason us Christians vote Republican!

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ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist

the most liberal member of the Senate

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He's not. Unless you actually think he can compete against Russ Feingold and Bernie Sanders. Which he can't.