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RE: Men's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2007 4:51:41 PM
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blessednw
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Exegetist
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessednw
quote:
ORIGINAL: Exegetist
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessednw
Word. Isn't that male privilege?
I don't understand. Are you saying that words are male privilege?
Oops, no. Word is the equivalent to "yes, that's true" in the vernacular.
AAAAh. Must be a youth thing. LOL
In response, that is what gender hierarchalists teach but it is not Scriptural. Males don't get special privileges just because we are male. Actually, what we should acknowledge is that we have different responsibilities to use our particular strengths for the good of others. If you are strong, use that strength for others benefit. That's why historically men have been the warriors and hunters, because more men than women tend to have strengths that fit that use. Whatever skills we have should be used for the benefit of others, even while we enjoy them ourselves.
God's way is to serve, not be served.
Yes. I was agreeing with your post, and saying "Word". It is a youth thing, about 20-23 yr old in fact (not me, my kids).
I appreciate what you wrote. I have known the benefits of honoring each mate's gifts for some time now, but struggled for a while about how submission is meant to be worked out.
I like what I read about what was going on in the church then in "what Paul really said about women" that was very helpful.
Also, it was helpful to see that this "male privilege' concept came up time and again in discussions/ learnings about how the "abuse/abadonment/blame/offense" cycles get built up in couples.
As one who is working to help dismantle such structures(strongholds) of the minds of offended women, in my own small way, I appreciated your posts, and others on this thread.
Yes, truly, God's way is to serve. Jesus modeled this to us. I like the strengths based model of the companionship of marriage too.
I would also like to comment that there is a lot of limping going on in modern men and women. Lack of godly role models, misused authority, fears inspired by trauma and offenses.... Not as many men can easily lovingly protect and lead, and not as many women can respect, at least in their current state.
There are reasons, sins of themselves and others that affect this, but we need to honor the individual and seek to support them in spite of their weakness or limp, and pray for them to fulfill their callings. NOT bash them, leave them, disrespect them, control them, use them as an example of "bad" people, etc.
WE should pray for those who are doing a poor job of responsibilities and endeavor to do a passionate job of doing our own. God will help us, even if we are not strong.
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This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
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RE: Men's role in the Home - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2007 7:56:07 PM
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Kath
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Topic please! Thanks :)
Kath
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 12:45:03 PM
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CheshireMuse
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My husband and I subscribe to the "Proverbs 31" ideal of the "woman's place". Some women may be able to remain at home and have their husband be the sole breadwinner, however, the cold hard reality of the situation is that an increasing number of households can no longer afford to do that.
My children are almost grown, so the issue of "who's taking care of your babies" doesn't apply to me, and I did stay at home with them from birth til they began school (at which time I returned to school myself, to finish my degree); but, please... I would like to ask that others not look down on a woman because she has to work or even chooses to work. Too many times, I've seen Christians deride a woman for wanting to apply her intellect to a career, as if there was something wrong with her (or her faith) simply because she dreamed of being a doctor or lawyer .....
God makes us what we are. And if He gives the desire to teach or heal or practice law (or whatever) to a person, regardless of their gender, then who are we to tell her that she has no right to use it? Isn't it a bigger sin to "hide your light" - to deny the talents God has given?
In my family, I work (you probably already guessed that, didn't you? LOL).. and so does my husband. I HAVE to work - there is simply no other way around it, however, I also LIKE to work.
My husband's hours aren't as long as mine, so he usually straightens up the house in the afternoons, and starts supper before I get home. He has no problem picking up a broom, putting a load of laundry in the washer, or washing a few dishes. On the weekends (when all the big housework gets done), I'm the one that usually does the floors/dusting/etc, plus I also cook large meals (since he does it during the week, I try to feed him well on the weekends).
I suppose what I'm trying to say (somewhat inelegantly) is that, while he is the head of our household, we BOTH know what chores need to be done, and whoever is available to do it, does it. There is no "woman's" work or "man's" work... The times when I'm too tired, he picks up my slack.... the times when he's too tired, I pick up his slack.... The point is - we both serve each other, and the needs of our family together...
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Peace,
Muse
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 2:45:05 PM
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KHutcheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CheshireMuse
I would like to ask that others not look down on a woman because she has to work or even chooses to work. Too many times, I've seen Christians deride a woman for wanting to apply her intellect to a career, as if there was something wrong with her (or her faith) simply because she dreamed of being a doctor or lawyer .....
I agree. It seems very strange to me that we men are encouraged to apply our brains in a trade or career, but women who are our intellectual equal with just as wide a diversity of talents are told it is shameful for them to "want" to work, that it's only okay if they "have to" work. Now, I am not advocating child abandonment, but I do think it's a shame that so few people are willing to find creative solutions so that both men and women can use their God-given gifts in their communities and/or for pay while still ensuring the children are well loved and cared for.
Kevin
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"The grace of God means something like: Here is your life. You might never have been, but you are because the party wouldn't have been complete without you." (Frederick Buechner)
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 7:14:33 PM
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suzanned
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What is the mens role in the home? I would answer it depends on the home. Each of us have different needs as to how the "role" takes form of men or for that matter women.
I would see my husbands role as one of husband, father, helper, leader, servant of the Lord, lover, friend.
I believe he would answer my roles would be wife, mother, helper, leader, servant of the Lord, lover and friend.
That I believe is what has made this marriage work for 31 yrs.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/24/2007 11:21:56 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Cheshire and Suzanned:
As a widowed mother with two young children, I actually had people telling me that i was sinning to choose not to remarry, that I was sinning to seek an education so that I could support them, and that I was sinning to not have a man in the house. To me, that was completely ludicrous then, and it still is now. And now, with the children grown and having their own homes, there are still those who tell me i am sinning to work outside my home.
Further, when I did marry, and my husband did not choose to hold me under his thumb, some are still telling me I am sinning for this. When I remind them that this is my husband's choice, they then say he is sinning not to hold me under.
I don't know. So we all work out our marriages as suits the couple, and if our choices don't meet with other's standards, if we are in agreement, well then it doesn't matter.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
Looking,waddling, and quacking are not the essence of duckness.
G-d has only one natural-born Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/25/2007 10:04:39 AM
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suzanned
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I believe we are each first and foremost accountable to God and His will for each of us. There will always be those who criticize you for what choices you have made for yourself or the kingdom in accordance with how they interpret the Word.
Working outside the home is not a sin. How we live out our Christian daily lives are not driven by male nor female, or a set of rules, but instead by our motive and the Holy Spirit that dwells within each believer.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/25/2007 2:49:35 PM
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Exegetist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Cheshire and Suzanned:
As a widowed mother with two young children, I actually had people telling me that i was sinning to choose not to remarry, that I was sinning to seek an education so that I could support them, and that I was sinning to not have a man in the house. To me, that was completely ludicrous then, and it still is now. And now, with the children grown and having their own homes, there are still those who tell me i am sinning to work outside my home.
Further, when I did marry, and my husband did not choose to hold me under his thumb, some are still telling me I am sinning for this. When I remind them that this is my husband's choice, they then say he is sinning not to hold me under.
I don't know. So we all work out our marriages as suits the couple, and if our choices don't meet with other's standards, if we are in agreement, well then it doesn't matter.
It is a sad testimony to the leadership of our churches that such things were taught and fellow Christians felt it was acceptable to accuse you of such. Please let me apologize as a leader who teaches in the body of Christ. I apologize for my brethren and any offense this put in your soul and any troubles it caused in your life. May God strengthen you so that you will be protected from this kind of abuse in the future.
What you experienced was religious legalism. When Christians decide to make their own rules for appearances of righteousness, that is legalism. And because they are man made rules, not found in Scripture even though Scriptures are used from which one can supposedly imply and infer (usually taken out of context), they will bring harm, bind and wound people instead of release them in Christ to become mature Christians.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/26/2007 3:14:14 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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lilone asked this question in a thread but was redirected here:
quote:
To the husbands: how do you show leadership in a loving way? In your home, how do you balance leading with showing grace? Do you ever struggle with taking you role for granted or not valuing your wife's opinions?
To the wives: how do you show your husband respect? In your home, how do you balance being submissive with also being your own person who has valid opinions and ideas? Do you ever struggle with submitting or wanting to usurp your husband's authority?
To answer the wife question: Yes, I struggle with submitting. I have this problem with wanting to be right all the time.  I show my husband respect by doing the things I know make him feel respected--listening to his dreams without finding faults, encouraging him in his business pursuits, letting him care for and discipline the boys in his way without jumping in and telling him he's got it all wrong, honoring his requests to the best of my ability, etc.
I am learning (slowly  ) to go to God for my validation, and not seek validation from being right or being in charge. I have my own opinions, and dh knows it and doesn't mind hearing them. Sometimes he sees my side of things, takes my suggestions, thinks they're great ideas, and sometimes not. If I was right and he didn't agree, he soon finds out.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/26/2007 4:02:43 PM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 35
Joined: 8/23/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Cheshire and Suzanned:
As a widowed mother with two young children, I actually had people telling me that i was sinning to choose not to remarry, that I was sinning to seek an education so that I could support them, and that I was sinning to not have a man in the house. To me, that was completely ludicrous then, and it still is now. And now, with the children grown and having their own homes, there are still those who tell me i am sinning to work outside my home.
Further, when I did marry, and my husband did not choose to hold me under his thumb, some are still telling me I am sinning for this. When I remind them that this is my husband's choice, they then say he is sinning not to hold me under.
I don't know. So we all work out our marriages as suits the couple, and if our choices don't meet with other's standards, if we are in agreement, well then it doesn't matter.
Oh, hon.... I'm so sorry that, on top of your loss, you had to deal with people who thought they were in any kind of position to tell you the best way to raise your children and live your life. I agree with you - each couple defines their relationship in a way that best suits their personal needs. And as long as your needs are being met, and your hubby's needs are being met...well, its all good! :-)
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Peace,
Muse
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/28/2007 12:12:17 AM
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suzanned
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quote:
He is clearly the spiritual head of our home and I am thankful for it. Too much responsibility for me!
What does this entail?
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/29/2007 11:48:26 AM
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myka
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I would love to hear how men are supposed to live out being the "spiritual leader" or "spiritual head of the household." I think that would help us to understand what people envision servant-leadership to be. What does it mean to be "double-minded or passive" as a servant-leader?
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/29/2007 4:15:36 PM
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gottobeHis
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He is clearly the spiritual head of our home and I am thankful for it. Too much responsibility for me!
I can understand this. I actually long for my husband to be the head of the household. We both work full-time and share some of the household chores, but all responsibility for our family inevitably falls on my shoulders. He tells me he's a christian, but there are no fruits of the Spirit. It's up to me to get my family to church and my husband won't go. I think that is a responsibility of the spiritual head. I'm the one who prays, reads the Bible and has the convictions of raising my children with Biblical principles. In addition to working full time, household chores, and being responsible for our finances. I feel that it is my place to submit to him when we can't reach an agreement & that it is his place to treat me with the same care that he has for himself. However, if I tried to submit to him nothing would ever get accomplished!
I would love to stay home and care for these things without working 40 hours a week--that would be a breeze. However, my husband works for the state and makes minimal money. Even with no house payment and vehicle payment we just couldn't manage to pay for our necessities. I don't work to have a wealthy lifestyle--we have to be frugal even with my employment.
Maria
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/31/2007 11:39:55 AM
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suzanned
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I love my career. I love my work and I am good at it. I minister to people on a daily basis and see the fruits of my labor. I work long hours at times and I bring work home sometimes. I also take time for my family. I have had the ability to work around my family's schedule but not all the time. They do know however that I try to do that and appreciate it. My husband does the same. We have both sacraficed our careers for family at times, and some times our job roles need to come first---however that hasnt been the rule for us.
We both work at our home and believe God has blessed us with our home we need to be good stewarts of it for Him. And we also try to open it for hospitality for Him.
I really dont understand the "spiritual leadership" thing as a designated "role" or any designated role for males over females. It doesnt make sense scripturally nor in daily life action. So I am really interested in seeing how this works out. I am fully accountable for my life, spiritual life, and wealfare of my family. I am a role model for my children as mother, wife, spiritual leader, and Christian. How that is less than my husband, I am not sure.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/31/2007 1:35:59 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
I would love to hear how men are supposed to live out being the "spiritual leader" or "spiritual head of the household." I think that would help us to understand what people envision servant-leadership to be. What does it mean to be "double-minded or passive" as a servant-leader?
All one need do is look to Christ's examples in the gospels.
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<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/31/2007 1:54:43 PM
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Exegetist
Posts: 341
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
I would love to hear how men are supposed to live out being the "spiritual leader" or "spiritual head of the household." I think that would help us to understand what people envision servant-leadership to be. What does it mean to be "double-minded or passive" as a servant-leader?
All one need do is look to Christ's examples in the gospels.
Good answer. Interestingly, women should be looking to the same examples of Christ, to be good wives. If more men and women tried to be Christlike we probably wouldn't care so much about the idea of 'roles'.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 8/31/2007 2:24:59 PM
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Zhi
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Quite true.
Christ calls us all to be servants, regardless of gender. Sometimes I wonder if the submission thing is put in there as a reminder to us wives that our husband is our primary service mission field, as much as the "husbands love your wives" is put in there as a reminder to husbands as well, that their wives are their primary service mission fields.
What does that look like specifically? I suppose it looks like whatever God has convicted you that it should look like. We're all individuals, we all have different strengths and weaknesses, as do our mates. If you are convinced, through prayer, scripture, and communion with God and your mate, that what your relationship looks like is what God wants your relationship to look like, that's pretty much all that matters.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 9/1/2007 3:26:40 PM
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myka
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But it seems like those who want the husband to be the "spiritual leader or head of the household" have some pretty clear cut ideas of what that entails.
I don't think of things like praying with the children/family, reading the Bible with them, instructing them, taking them to church as anything that is a "responsibility" -- it is just something that I do because I am a Christian and their mother.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the home - One Stop Thread - 9/2/2007 11:46:43 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
Posts: 1587
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I heard of a stat that showed that children in a home where only the father was a dedicated Christian were more likely to become Christians than those where only the mother was a dedicated Christian. Assuming this is true (I do not have a link to back me up on this), does this show, in part, why the husband is to be the spiritual leader? That the children are more easily "swayed" by the father's beliefs?
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