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[Poll]
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Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient?
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Total Votes : 21
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(last vote on : 11/21/2008 7:20:54 PM)
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Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/15/2008 11:14:47 AM
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Beanteaser
Posts: 243
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From: Minnesota
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Before you vote, I ask that you read my post.
The phrase "personal relationship with Jesus" is usually used as a requirement FOR salvation. I have been hearing it for most of my life, but now think it has become a cliche that weakens the actual salvation message. When we study Scripture to understand how we are saved, we come across verses like Romans 10:9, Ephesians 3:8, and John 3:16, but no where in Scripture is the phrase "personal relationship with Jesus" found. Now, this relationship does exist, but I think it is a natural result OF salvation.
So my question is "Is a personal relationship with Jesus sufficient for salvation?"
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/15/2008 12:17:27 PM
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LCannon
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"...yet we know that a person is justified not by [our obediences] of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in Christ(only) and not by doing the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law. But if, in our [own] effort to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have been found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! "(Galatians 2:16-17) Yes.
Obedience to Christ Jesus commands our service as our reward and an evidence of the 'hope our calling'(1Peter 1:3). "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God not the result of works, so that no one may boast."(Ephesians 2:8,9)
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/15/2008 5:12:39 PM
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steve7150
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quote:
So my question is "Is a personal relationship with Jesus sufficient for salvation?"
If the relationship is that he is Lord and Savior then it is and if not then it does'nt cut the mustard.
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/15/2008 5:46:13 PM
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MrFribbles
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I think it's one of those things that, when one receives salvation, they receive a personal relationship with Christ, so to the extent that it is sufficient for showing one has received salvation, sure. But salvation doesn't come by means of a personal relationship, anymore than it comes through the sealing of the Holy Spirit (another natural result of receiving salvation).
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/15/2008 11:13:42 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1961
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From: Kansas
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If I belong to Jesus Christ, His spirit lives within me. Now to me that is the true definition of a personal relationship. Christ lives within me and I live through Him.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/16/2008 11:39:24 AM
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drmark
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quote:
When we study Scripture to understand how we are saved, we come across verses like Romans 10:9, Ephesians 3:8, and John 3:16, but no where in Scripture is the phrase "personal relationship with Jesus" found. Does confessing that Jesus is Lord (Rom 10:9) require a personal relationship with Him? What is our faith placed in if not the personal understanding of God's saving Grace (Eph 2:8)? Does James 2:19 say it takes more than mere intellectual belief in God to have everlasting life (John 3:16)? All these verses clearly show me the necessity of "personal relationship" for true salvation. But God provides His Grace for that as well, Beanteaser. Is that what's bothering you - that you think a personal relationship comes only from feeble man?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/16/2008 2:56:25 PM
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Beanteaser
Posts: 243
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Does confessing that Jesus is Lord (Rom 10:9) require a personal relationship with Him?
I am not sure where you are going with this but I am very confident when I say "Absolutely No!" Phil 2:11 says "and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Who does this include? I believe that this includes everyone, even those that don't want to including satan and his demons.
quote:
What is our faith placed in if not the personal understanding of God's saving Grace (Eph 2:8)?
I am confused now...I just want to make sure I am understanding you clearly. Do you think personal understanding=personal relationship?
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Does James 2:19 say it takes more than mere intellectual belief in God to have everlasting life (John 3:16)?
Yes!! For sure! We know that is talking about real faith that is working. Does faith=personal relationship?
quote:
Is that what's bothering you - that you think a personal relationship comes only from feeble man?
Can you clarify your statement?
I get the impression that you think I think a personal relationship with Jesus is a bad thing.
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/16/2008 3:44:16 PM
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drmark
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quote:
I am not sure where you are going with this but I am very confident when I say "Absolutely No!" Then we obviously operate under two entirely different meanings for the word "Lord"! I personally could not confess Jesus as Lord without a personal relationship with Him.
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Do you think personal understanding=personal relationship? Do they equal - no. Does understanding another person require relationship - absolutely yes!
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Does faith=personal relationship? Same answer. Do they equal - no. Does faith in a person require relationship - absolutely yes!
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Can you clarify your statement?
I get the impression that you think I think a personal relationship with Jesus is a bad thing. That's funny, I got the same impression from your OP! So let's stop with the impressions and get real. NO! - a personal relationship is integral to one's salvation. How could that possibly be a "bad thing"? Now you tell me why you posted the OP in the manner you did.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/16/2008 4:58:01 PM
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Beanteaser
Posts: 243
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From: Minnesota
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Then we obviously operate under two entirely different meanings for the word "Lord"! I personally could not confess Jesus as Lord without a personal relationship with Him.
Okay, I have a question then. Did you confess Jesus as Lord and Savior before or after your relationship with Him began?
quote:
Does understanding another person require relationship - absolutely yes!
Always? What if you read books and study a historical figure? Could you understand a person that way?
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Does faith in a person require relationship - absolutely yes!
So you don't have faith in any politician? Okay, so that is bad example.......Your name has "Dr" in it so I assume your a doctor? I don't know what kind you are but let's pretend you are a general surgeon and pretend I need an emergency appendectomy. Should I not have faith in you because I don't have a relationship with you?
quote:
How could that possibly be a "bad thing"? Now you tell me why you posted the OP in the manner you did.
I never said a personal relationship with Jesus is bad thing. I just think it's a natural result of salvation instead of the main reason for it like many ministries imply. However, I would much rather use the word "fellowship" since it is the more biblical term.
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/16/2008 7:05:49 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Did you confess Jesus as Lord and Savior before or after your relationship with Him began? God had a relationship with me and was drawing me to Him before my moment of conversion. I admitted His Lordship over my life when He saved me. I continue to improve my relationship with Jesus as Lord every day. Maybe I don't understand your question, Bt. Sorry.
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What if you read books and study a historical figure? Could you understand a person that way? Not enough for them to be my Savior!
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Should I not have faith in you because I don't have a relationship with you? Not enough for me to be your Savior!
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I just think it's a natural result of salvation instead of the main reason for it like many ministries imply. Well, I guess I mostly agree with you, Bt. The main reason for salvation is God's grace but we still have to appropriate that grace through faith. I just don't see how anyone can have faith in a person with whom they have ZERO relationship!
quote:
However, I would much rather use the word "fellowship" since it is the more biblical term. Sounds good to me! Do you know any verses off the top of your head that indicate we have "fellowship" with God?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/16/2008 7:32:01 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Messiah had a relationship with me before I knew Him, while I had no relationship with Him, so the relationship was not mutual. After He cornered me, and I could not resist His love, then I began a relationship with Him, making it mutual.
1 John 1:5-7
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/17/2008 7:07:14 PM
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Beanteaser
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
However, I would much rather use the word "fellowship" since it is the more biblical term.
Sounds good to me! Do you know any verses off the top of your head that indicate we have "fellowship" with God?
Sure! 1 Corinthians 1:9 says "God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord."
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/17/2008 7:21:28 PM
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drmark
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Here is another: 1 John 1:3 - "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
Thanks, Beanteaser, I'm not sure I've much thought of applying koininea in the context of the Triune God. Would you say "fellowship" is sufficient for salvation?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/22/2008 2:21:48 PM
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Beanteaser
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From: Minnesota
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That's a fair question. I still think it's a natural result of salvation.
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/22/2008 2:41:36 PM
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greatdivide46
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From: Opp, Alabama
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Yes, I believe a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is sufficient for our salvation. However, I don't believe its necessary to add to or change scripture, as seen below, in order to make that point.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Post #2
"...yet we know that a person is justified not by [our obediences] of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in Christ(only) and not by doing the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law. But if, in our [own] effort to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have been found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! "(Galatians 2:16-17) Yes.
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greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/27/2008 12:38:29 PM
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Doghouse
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Yes, it is sufficient, but I think on these pages we discuss just what "being in relationship with God through Jesus" really is. Obviously, various Christian faiths and denominations believe that this relationship requires different things of us than others do.
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When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity...it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if he turns from the wickedness he has committed, he does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life" - Ez 18:25-28
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/29/2008 4:42:07 PM
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raivyne
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I would just like to say that Judas Iscariot had a personal relationship with Jesus...
I guess my answer is no.
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God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
The Power of a Simple Gift! samaritanspurse.org
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/29/2008 7:44:06 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1187
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
I would just like to say that Judas Iscariot had a personal relationship with Jesus...
I guess my answer is no.
Good point, raivyne. Perhaps simply knowing Jesus is a little different than having a personal relationship with Him.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/30/2008 9:34:44 AM
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raivyne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
I would just like to say that Judas Iscariot had a personal relationship with Jesus...
I guess my answer is no.
Good point, raivyne. Perhaps simply knowing Jesus is a little different than having a personal relationship with Him.
I would say the difference is in following Him or not.
we know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. (I John 2:3-6)
_____________________________
God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
The Power of a Simple Gift! samaritanspurse.org
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/30/2008 11:43:58 AM
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mcleod
Posts: 1072
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
If I belong to Jesus Christ, His spirit lives within me. Now to me that is the true definition of a personal relationship. Christ lives within me and I live through Him.
Bob
Yes this is it. 
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/30/2008 1:07:30 PM
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Lapidoth
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This is what my congregation calls a "trick question."
Only because it depends a lot on what vantage point
you come from. How you understand the question.
Salvation comes in 3 points:
1. "I have been saved." --- from the penalty of sin. [past] Ro. 6:23
2. "I am being saved." ---- from the power of sin. [present] Mt. 1:21; Rom. 6:14; rev. 12:11
3. "I shall be saved." ------ from the presence of sin. [future] I Peter 1:3-5; Rom. 16:20
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/30/2008 2:32:14 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3140
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quote:
Salvation comes in 3 points:
1. "I have been saved." --- from the penalty of sin. [past] Ro. 6:23
2. "I am being saved." ---- from the power of sin. [present] Mt. 1:21; Rom. 6:14; rev. 12:11
3. "I shall be saved." ------ from the presence of sin. [future] I Peter 1:3-5; Rom. 16:20 I like that schema, Lapidoth! 1) Initial sanctification 2) Entire Sanctification 3) Glorification
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/30/2008 2:54:10 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1778
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quote:
But salvation doesn't come by means of a personal relationship, anymore than it comes through the sealing of the Holy Spirit
To the contrary, salvation is impossible without Christ in you and you in Christ. Salvation is "Christ in you, the hope of glory". It is therefore more than a personal relationship -- it is an intimate union and communion with God Himself. This is not only essential but sufficient for all eternity.
It is Christ Himself who is our Salvation, our Righteousness, our Life, our Resurrection, our Peace, our Joy, and our sufficiency. The Scriptures amply testify to this.
When we receive Christ, we simultaneously receive the Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Therefore God Himself is our salvation. That is the meaning of "Yeshua" or "Jesus" -- GOD IS OUR SALVATION.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Is a personal relationship with Jesus Sufficient? - 9/30/2008 11:05:10 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1961
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Amen Ezra...
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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Concerning your question, I voted "YES" for what else can we have or do over and above having a relationship with Jesus as a result of our salvation. There is nothing more we can do to save ourselves.
