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With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/17/2008 9:05:16 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
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heading South, why should anyone proclaim that government can run anything in a proper manner? How can the Messiah keep individuals who ran these firms as his economic advisers? How can the Annointed One talk about this since these firms gave Barry $$$?
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/17/2008 9:10:54 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
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From: Pottstown, PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
heading South, why should anyone proclaim that government can run anything in a proper manner? How can the Messiah keep individuals who ran these firms as his economic advisers? How can the Annointed One talk about this since these firms gave Barry $$$?
Well, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were not run by the government, but now that they are heading south, the government has bailed them out. I say let them fall. The economy will bounce back and people need to learn a lesson about true economics.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/17/2008 10:18:45 PM
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csl7037
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I agree with you in theory - and something along those lines should've been done about five years ago. But a total collapse at this point would be devastating and "bouncing back" wouldn't be so easy. A breakdown that enormous in our economy would be a matter of security. And it would be a disaster for world markets as well. It's greed at the top and stupidity in the masses - a very bad combination.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/17/2008 10:46:48 PM
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PhunkD
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These organizations were private--these were the kind of places that GWB was suggesting that people put social security money into a few years back.
Furthermore, they failed largely because de-regulation allowed them to leverage themselves beyond the point of no return.
Government can work--just not with the current guy running it.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/17/2008 11:13:39 PM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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Fannie and Freddie were run by 0bama's economic advisors. It doesn't bode well for his economic policies.
CEO calling Obama, Dems "Family" of Fannie Mae
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/17/2008 11:23:27 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
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From: Pottstown, PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
I agree with you in theory - and something along those lines should've been done about five years ago. But a total collapse at this point would be devastating and "bouncing back" wouldn't be so easy. A breakdown that enormous in our economy would be a matter of security. And it would be a disaster for world markets as well. It's greed at the top and stupidity in the masses - a very bad combination.
There has to be boundaries somewhere. A total bail out is just wrong, and it encourages more of the same. I would say perhaps bail them out enough so that they do not have to recall the loans they currently have out there that are in good standing. Brokers wrote loans they should have never written, and people accepted loans they could never pay. People were convinced that they were going to turn around and sell the houses they purchased for twice what they paid. When the bubble burst they had a rude awakening.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/17/2008 11:38:24 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
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From: Pottstown, PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
These organizations were private--these were the kind of places that GWB was suggesting that people put social security money into a few years back.
That's incorrect. SS would be better off in reputable investment firms such as Fidelity or Vanguard. Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac are simply in the loan business. They make money off the interest paid.
quote:
Furthermore, they failed largely because de-regulation allowed them to leverage themselves beyond the point of no return.
There was no de-regulation, they were never regulated to begin with. What happened was the interest rates were lowered to boost the economy when the dot com boom of the '90's was fizzling out. This in turn created a real estate boom because mortgage rates were at the lowest they had been in decades. The problem was the housing prices went through the roof mostly because of speculation. Everybody thought they could flip a house in several month and too many people were trapped in mortgages they could not carry for an extended period. The result was that not only was home ownership at an all time high, so were forclosures.
quote:
Government can work--just not with the current guy running it.
I disagree with your statement about government. It's too big. I will agree with you about the current guy, because he is part of the big two. Democrats and Republicans are way too similar, but have so many people deceived into believing they are different because they talk about the hot button issues that divide us, but really don't care about. I am referring to abortion, family values, the environment, etc. I am not saying that these are not important issues. They are important to you and me, but the career politicians could care less about them, but they see the power they have as a distraction from what they really do. Outside of that, there really is not that much they disagree on. Hopefully more people will start waking up to this fact and realize that we are not slaves to these 2 parties.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 12:09:52 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Fannie and Freddie were run by 0bama's economic advisors. It doesn't bode well for his economic policies.
CEO calling Obama, Dems "Family" of Fannie Mae
Phil Gramm, who authored the bill that made this whole mess possible, was, until his July comments about a nation of "whiners," McCain's campaign co-chair and most senior economic adviser.
How does that bode for McCain's economic policies?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 6:41:53 AM
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csl7037
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There's plenty of blame to go around, granted. But people seem to be anxious to pick which side they want to blame but no one wants to blame ourselves. People should've known better. It's a free market system, regulation shouldn't be the government's responsibility, they should keep their hands off this kind of stuff unless it becomes so aggregious that it endangers our economy and security. And it has become that, and the blame for both parties should be in not stopping it sooner. But they had the companies on one side (granted many of them pouring money into a lot of campaign coffers to keep those blind eyes turned away) and the electorate on the other who were actually just as bad! People have been eating up these loans, we can't whine about it now! We're just as culpable! And the politicians who stood up and warned against this were in a tight spot because they'd have been lamblasted by both sides if they'd tried to really do anything about it.
It's easy to lay blame. A lot harder to take responsibility. Ultimately, we wanted our big houses and big profits on this end too. And we elected those bozos and really didn't want them to do anything to stop it and they knew that. Now we're freaking out that they didn't do anything sooner and they're stepping in to bail "us" out?? Kinda disingenuous.
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Get your facts straight! - 9/18/2008 7:30:56 AM
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TMeeks
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Please! Get your facts straight. Simply declaring that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are 'private' is completely misleading. They were set up as SPECIAL ENTITIES BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. It was THE GOVERNMENT that established these organizations and it was the GOVERNMENT'S policies under CLINTON that eventually led to their ruin.
http://www.fanniemae.com/aboutfm/index.jhtml;jsessionid=VNCSEICIAL5GLJ2FECISFGQ?p=About+Fannie+Mae
Yes, they do have private investors. But, they are anything but unbridled private companies. It was the role of the government in their structure and mission that was at the very root of the problem. They were virtually bound by the mandate to make housing available to low income families. THAT WAS A GOVERNMENT POLICY.
It was NOT DE-REGULATION that did them in. It was government MEDDLING.
And, it was CLINTON that began the big push to make these risky loans and Clinton cronies like Frank Raines that were behind the shoddy accounting. This problem goes back to at least 2001 and it was Raines that failed.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_02/b3915646.htm
The fact that people are so ignorant about the realities out there and the cronism of the democrats with the very people they would like you to think that they would reign in that makes it possible to for this to continue unchecked.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
These organizations were private--these were the kind of places that GWB was suggesting that people put social security money into a few years back.
Furthermore, they failed largely because de-regulation allowed them to leverage themselves beyond the point of no return.
Government can work--just not with the current guy running it.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 9/18/2008 7:43:51 AM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 7:41:27 AM
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TMeeks
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That's complete nonsense.
While I would agree that the CDSs that Graham's bill created were a stupid idea, it was Frank Rainse and other democrat cronies that wer the heart and soul of this mess in the mortgage giants. And, Frank Raines is STILL advising Obama. Graham is NOT advising McCain.
Your post on this topic did more to show me that you are either (1) completely ignorant of the entire story of what was behind these fiascos (Government MEDDLING and TARGETS) and WHO was really ultimately responsible or (2) so partisan that you refuse to acknowledge the truth at all.
With Raines STILL a part of Obama's team... how does that bode well for HIS policies? One's gone (Graham)... the other (Rainse) is NOT.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Fannie and Freddie were run by 0bama's economic advisors. It doesn't bode well for his economic policies.
CEO calling Obama, Dems "Family" of Fannie Mae
Phil Gramm, who authored the bill that made this whole mess possible, was, until his July comments about a nation of "whiners," McCain's campaign co-chair and most senior economic adviser.
How does that bode for McCain's economic policies?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 7:54:40 AM
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TMeeks
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I don't see how ANYONE that has a speck of respect for the truth can not see how democrats, and in particular Clinton and Obama, played a key role in pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to lending policies that were destined to end in ruin.
The video is proof... among a thousand other proofs that Obama and company cannot be trusted at all. He is among those that create a problem and then declare that only they can fix it. It is a blatant lie. All they will do is destroy freedoms in the guise of 'fixing' it.
Fannie Mae's policies were socialism posing as capitalism. And, THAT is what got them into trouble. When a lender REFUSES to verify that a borrower can pay back that money, it can only be seen as a socialist style handout.
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Fannie and Freddie were run by 0bama's economic advisors. It doesn't bode well for his economic policies.
CEO calling Obama, Dems "Family" of Fannie Mae
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 8:36:05 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2335
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Fannie and Freddie were run by 0bama's economic advisors. It doesn't bode well for his economic policies.
CEO calling Obama, Dems "Family" of Fannie Mae
Phil Gramm, who authored the bill that made this whole mess possible, was, until his July comments about a nation of "whiners," McCain's campaign co-chair and most senior economic adviser.
How does that bode for McCain's economic policies?
-Dan.
Gramm was canned. Have any of the Fannie Mae moochers of 0bama advisors been canned yet over this? Raines was the Ken Lay of the Fannie Mae mess. Where is the outcry for his head and the obligatory perp walk like there was for anyone connected to Enron???????
< Message edited by StephK -- 9/18/2008 8:47:33 AM >
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 8:57:51 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Gramm was canned.
Gramm was canned because he opened his mouth, not because of his policies. If he'd kept his mouth shut, he'd presumably still be there.
quote:
Have any of the Fannie Mae moochers of 0bama advisors been canned yet over this? Raines was the Ken Lay of the Fannie Mae mess.
I've heard that on this board a couple times, but does anybody actually have any proof that he orchestrated Fannie Mae's dependence on subprime loans and that any other CEO would have done any differently in the existing market conditions? From what I can find, Raines was responsible for cooking the books and was canned in Dec '04. The issue with subprime loans was much larger than one company - that's why so many others have failed.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:12:24 AM
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P31W
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I will be honest with you all. If people had not "applied" for these loans because they were smart enough after 12 years of FREE public school education to prepare a simple budget, see if they could afford the loans and know not to sign a legal document before they read and understood it then there is alot of the blame to be placed on "those people".
No one has ever forced me to sign a loan agreement in my life. It's a personal choice I have always been able to accept or reject.
What is so very odd to me is that in may family this is what even our children know better. If you can't afford something then you don't buy it.
Maybe it's those who asked for the loans that are most of blame. Maybe they are didn't do due dillegence because taxpayers already bail them out too much. Maybe our public school system needs to be ditched.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:16:43 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
I will be honest with you all. If people had not "applied" for these loans because they were smart enough after 12 years of FREE public school education to prepare a simple budget, see if they could afford the loans and know not to sign a legal document before they read and understood it then there is alot of the blame to be placed on "those people".
In most cases, people were planning on refinancing their ARM's after a couple years, but when the housing prices fell and their interest rates went up, they were stuck.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:26:14 AM
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ManimalX
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It comes from a Democrat-fueled entitlement mindset that everyone has the "right" to own a home, or a car, or a TV, or a toaster, or a whatever.
No, you have the right to WORK and the right to PURSUE the means necessary to own these things.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:27:57 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
It comes from a Democrat-fueled entitlement mindset that everyone has the "right" to own a home, or a car, or a TV, or a toaster, or a whatever.
That comes more from the advertising industry than anywhere.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:34:31 AM
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P31W
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quote:
In most cases, people were planning on refinancing their ARM's after a couple years, but when the housing prices fell and their interest rates went up, they were stuck.
-Dan.
That is part of their problem. They were planning on the unknown!!!! They pretty much violated every principle of borrowing found in scripture. It's common sense.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:37:02 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
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quote:
That comes more from the advertising industry than anywhere.
I believe you are both correct. As thinking adults however we should know better than to allow advertisers or a political party dictate how we provide for our families or use GODs resources that he has "entrusted to us".. As Christians we should be using God's Word and obeying it. People who did that are NOT in trouble with a house mortage now. They are standing on solid ground.
Surety is a biblical principle. It means we are not to willingly obligate ourselves to pay a debt that we do not have a "sure" way to pay it off.
Most people who violate one of God's principles can expect to suffer for doing so. God does not promise to save us from our own lack of due dilligence in obeying His Word.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:49:28 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3976
Joined: 5/6/2005
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There is plenty of blame to go around. The government, lenders, brokers and borrowers all played a role. Fixing it requires changes in all areas, including attitudes about borrowing, making quick money by "flipping houses", selling and buying loans, corporations hiding bad debt in sham holding companies, etc.
The next President will need to work with both private and public sectors and with both parties to help avoid prolonging this recession/correction/depression/whatever you call it.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:56:55 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1264
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
There is plenty of blame to go around. The government, lenders, brokers and borrowers all played a role. Fixing it requires changes in all areas, including attitudes about borrowing, making quick money by "flipping houses", selling and buying loans, corporations hiding bad debt in sham holding companies, etc.
The next President will need to work with both private and public sectors and with both parties to help avoid prolonging this recession/correction/depression/whatever you call it.
Well-said and fair post, cow.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 9:57:03 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
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I hope that our Churches will begin to take serious their role in this mess as well. Too many Christians are completely ignorant of scripture and how God said he wanted "us" His Children to handle his resources.
I see that the Chruch needs to repent of their actions, lack of due dilligence, lack of trying to be educated and in some cases greed.
Right now the Chruch people "should be" those standing tall in this economy because they took God's words to heart and applied them to their life.
What could have been a huge light in this dark world for the Lord and His wisdom is not even a flicker in the wind. We lost a wonderful opportunity to show the World that Our God is Right. That his ways are right and can be trusted.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 1:47:05 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
In most cases, people were planning on refinancing their ARM's after a couple years, but when the housing prices fell and their interest rates went up, they were stuck.
-Dan.
I agree, but who's fault is that? There were no guarrantees that they would be able to do that, but it was the trend at that time. They signed the papers knowing that their mortgages had an adjustable rate.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: With Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... - 9/18/2008 3:05:30 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
In most cases, people were planning on refinancing their ARM's after a couple years, but when the housing prices fell and their interest rates went up, they were stuck.
The problem is that people failed to comprehend the market is cyclical, and just as prices rise, they too, in time will fall. The same applies to interest rates. Yes, churches need to educate their parishoners on God's view of finances but schools need to provide their students on basic economics.
The rats nest that is Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac prove that a complete house-cleaning is needed in D.C. The problem is that both sets of candidates do not seem to be able/eager to completely step up to this task. What is needed is a long term solution rather than a band-aide fix.
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