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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 9:26:39 AM
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mutinywxgirl
Posts: 12573
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From: west coast of FL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
i wonder if there are multiple concepts of what consists of a date.
very probable
Just with what gets discussed around here - I guarantee there are multiple concepts of what people call dates!
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 11:00:48 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: losgan
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
Why be scared if they match what you are looking for?
That is a VERY good question. I'm actually going to sit down with a counselor at the church and try to find out.
So far - I think it is kinda like taking the bandaid off after you don't need it anymore ...
I have a feeling it is also NOT from God. He says "I have not given you a spirit of fear ..."
So I guess I'm scared of being hurt. As much as I've asked God for this, I think I wasn't expecting to get it? Silly me!
The hard thing about love is if you take no risk of being hurt you also have no chance of being loved.
Fear of success has been known to stop many guys from asking women out almost as much as fear of failure. I guess it must also be a factor for the women. Don't let fear of success get in your way. Yes if this goes far your life will change. But that's what you want otherwise you'd not be even crushing on the guy.
Go for it, take the risk, be blessed
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 11:17:30 AM
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ladioffaith
Posts: 2991
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: NE Ohio (L.A. . . Lower Akron)
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I'll date anybody once ... and hopefully by the end of that date I'll know if I'm interested in seeing them again.
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He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 11:55:04 AM
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skreyola
Posts: 1989
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: Mars
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
The head of my church's singles program tells a story about her grandfather. He married a woman and was surprised on their wedding night to find that she thought they wouldn't be getting physically intimate, because they hadn't discussed it. He thought they hadn't discussed it because it wasn't seemly to do so.
Well, unless the director's parent was adopted, I guess they got intimate at some point. 
I honestly don't understand NOT expecting that on your wedding night....kinda like saying you're gonna go swimming and never getting in the pool.....but then again that was many years ago..although some things are too blatant now, some things were too hush hush back then.
Actually, no. He got it annulled. She was his third wife, if I remember correctly.
Well, she thought they were both too old for such things, and she wasn't interested. Myself, I can't understand it, either. But I hear stories of people who aren't interested in sex at all.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 11:59:34 AM
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skreyola
Posts: 1989
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From: Mars
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
My point was, don't fall head over heels for someone until you've actually dated them, and not just watched and observed them from a far. You have to "relate" to them. That's how you determine if the relationship should move forward. It's in the relating, not in the "he's got everything in my list, we're a perfect match". You're a perfect match after you've both determined that you want to still be in a relationship with each other after having dated each other for a bit.
Well, I certainly would laugh at someone who tried to figure out how well their list matched someone before dating them. That's what dating is for: figuring out how well you match in your philosophies, goals, desires, and spiritual aims.
Trying to figure all that out without dating is pretty much stalking, as far as I'm concerned.
When I said even if you have known someone a long time, I didn't mean anyone would do that with someone new. I meant the scenario where you've been friends a while and decide there's potential for more. You can't just get married because you've been friends a while. There are still volumes you don't know about your friends that you need to know before deciding to marry one of them.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 12:13:00 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 7676
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ladioffaith
I'll date anybody once ... and hopefully by the end of that date I'll know if I'm interested in seeing them again.
Ditto.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 12:24:06 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 1989
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: Mars
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
i wonder if there are multiple concepts of what consists of a date.
I can say with certainty that there are, since most people I've met who have read that I Kissed Dating Goodbye book seem to think that a date necessarily includes lying and having sex, while I don't think either of those things has any place in a dating relationship.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 12:34:12 PM
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raivyne
Posts: 883
Joined: 8/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
i wonder if there are multiple concepts of what consists of a date.
I can say with certainty that there are, since most people I've met who have read that I Kissed Dating Goodbye book seem to think that a date necessarily includes lying and having sex, while I don't think either of those things has any place in a dating relationship.
haven't finished that book yet. perhaps thats how the author defines dating? or that's how its being interpreted?
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 12:49:22 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 4182
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
I can say with certainty that there are, since most people I've met who have read that I Kissed Dating Goodbye book seem to think that a date necessarily includes lying and having sex, while I don't think either of those things has any place in a dating relationship.
well i do think the book is geared toward younger crowd and any overemphasis on purity comes from the fact most teenagers engaging in normal dating behaviors have sex. and yes many many teens will say anything (lie) to help further that goal. i don't think they are mature enough to know how to be in a healthy dating relationship and have a long term view. harris does state his views are often taken out of context (i don't know that he publicly says which ones) but i can definately see some people taking an approach all the way to one side.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 1:24:17 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
*shrug* All in all I don't like his books and worry when I see youths split up by gender because the girls are too afraid to talk to the boys and vice versa.
And may of these girls will wake up in their late thirties with their biological clocks winding down wondering where their husband is and having no clue about how to go about finding him.
It's very similar to the lie that feminism told to a generation. "You can have it all. build your career first and then have a family" Many of them will spend their lives alone because while they have a great career they've neglected to build a family.
I heard on the radio this AM that we are now the most single we've ever been as a country. And most singles are both clueless about how to fix it and scared of marriage to boot. Last thing we need is a generation that doesn't seek a mate.
Note that they still need to date responsibly but face it, high school and college are by far the best places to find a spouse. For most people, once you get out of college your available options contract significantly. Instead of being exposed to thousands of people of the opposite sex in your age range each day you are now exposed to maybe two or three if you are lucky.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 1:25:47 PM
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losgan
Posts: 714
Joined: 4/8/2007
From: Austin-Garland, Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
The hard thing about love is if you take no risk of being hurt you also have no chance of being loved.
Fear of success has been known to stop many guys from asking women out almost as much as fear of failure. I guess it must also be a factor for the women. Don't let fear of success get in your way. Yes if this goes far your life will change. But that's what you want otherwise you'd not be even crushing on the guy.
Go for it, take the risk, be blessed
Thanks for the encouragment. I've been praying a lot about it. I don't want to be desiring something God doesn't want for me ... but I don't want to drag my feet if He truly wants to give me something good!
It will change my life if things go well. And I will have to eat a few words that I've said in the past! But ya know what, from what I know so far - I'd be happy to.
I know he's playing at the youth building this weekend, but I'm hoping he'll come by the main building after and I'll get to see him. Actually - maybe I'll just bop over there and ask him how things went :)
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 1:28:25 PM
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losgan
Posts: 714
Joined: 4/8/2007
From: Austin-Garland, Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
And may of these girls will wake up in their late thirties with their biological clocks winding down wondering where their husband is and having no clue about how to go about finding him.
It's very similar to the lie that feminism told to a generation. "You can have it all. build your career first and then have a family" Many of them will spend their lives alone because while they have a great career they've neglected to build a family.
Ok, ouch. That's borderline cruel. Is it somehow my fault these skills weren't taught to me?
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 1:55:19 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: losgan
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
And may of these girls will wake up in their late thirties with their biological clocks winding down wondering where their husband is and having no clue about how to go about finding him.
It's very similar to the lie that feminism told to a generation. "You can have it all. build your career first and then have a family" Many of them will spend their lives alone because while they have a great career they've neglected to build a family.
Ok, ouch. That's borderline cruel.
I'm sorry. I didn't intend to be hurtful, just truthful. There's not a lot we can do about ourselves, just try our best. But we shouldn't let the next generation make the same mistakes (That is, if we consider ourselves to have made mistakes)
quote:
Is it somehow my fault these skills weren't taught to me?
No. It is the fault of those who should have been doing the teaching. I know in most churches we teach so much and so often about purity but we seldom teach at all about finding one's mate. The poor kids are left with the idea that looking at a person of the opposite sex is sinful (let alone "liking one"!!) When what the kids need is how to find someone who is compatible and who would make a good mate.
I consider the women who were sold an unhealthy idea of relationships to be victims just as I consider those who were lied to by feminism to be victims.
Kids can be victimized by a too liberal attitude towards opposite sex relations ("sure go get laid, here's some condoms") or by a too conservative attitude towards opposite sex relations ("Thou shalt not talk to a boy ever!!"). We need to teach them the middle, biblical way.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 10:56:22 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2675
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
and college are by far the best places to find a spouse.
Well, I went all the way down to Georgia (because that college best matched my church's theology--so I thought until I got there anway-which meant I also thought the young men and me would match theologically) in hopes for that to happen....got a disease and a debt instead....wasn't exactly my choice.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 11:04:22 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2675
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From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
Most first dates will never progress to second dates, most second dates will never progress to third dates etc.
That seems a bit pessimistic. I would think that with your list, you would have a good guideline of who to ask in the first place, and that would make you more likely to ask out someone who was likely to continue a relationship.
Missed this before. Even with as detailed a list as I have, there are still things that you can't know except for in person. (Chemistry for example). Dating is a process of weeding out. As we find things that don't fit ("No deals" as opposed to "deals") we move on to the next potential
Now I know why so many of my friends in the past and myself have had our hearts broken too many times....in a woman's mind, a guy is asking her out because he is starting a relationship, not because he is seeing IF he is going to start one.
John, you know by now that I'm pretty supportive of lists, of the way men see things (I understand looks being important to them, I understand-once married-intimacy being important to them)...but on this one something about it is gnawing at me. It just seems rather insensitive and could lead to almost being cruel.
I just think before the first date you should get to know a person well enough to be sure it will continue (easier done if you meet at work or church...but say you meet at a party...you could still arrange for a group of people to get together on a regular basis, including the woman in the group, and go on to dating from there, AFTER you're pretty sure it will lead somewhere).
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 9/19/2008 11:19:37 PM >
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Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 11:19:38 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Now I know why so many of my friends in the past and myself have had our hearts broken too many times....in a woman's mind, a guy is asking her out because he is starting a relationship, not because he is seeing IF he is going to start one.
There's no relationship until at least the third date. You don't even know them well enough to talk about a relationship before then. He asks her out to get to know her. nothing more.
quote:
John, you know by now that I'm pretty supportive of lists, of the way men see things (I understand looks being important to them, I understand-once married-intimacy being important to them)...but on this one something about it is gnawing at me. It just seems rather insensitive and could lead to almost being cruel.
The alternative is to never ask her out at all.
quote:
I just think before the first date you should get to know a person well enough to be sure it will continue (easier done if you meet at work or church...but say you meet at a party...you could still arrange for a group of people to get together on a regular basis, including the woman in the group, and go on to dating from there, AFTER you're pretty sure it will lead somewhere.
You never know if it will continue. For one thing the dynamic is different one-on-one than it is in a group. You may like her public persona but can't stand her in private (or vice versa).
Secondly doing the "friends first" thing. By the time you know her well enough to know it will work she already considers you a "friend" which to most men is the kiss of death to any hope of a relationship. (Most women do not date their friends. At least not in my experience or the experience of most men I know.)
Third, if you meet her at, say the grocery store, you can't arrange for a group of stock boys etc to accompany you. Most women I've ever asked out have been on the first or second meeting.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 11:24:32 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2675
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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quote:
Secondly doing the "friends first" thing. By the time you know her well enough to know it will work she already considers you a "friend" which to most men is the kiss of death to any hope of a relationship. (Most women do not date their friends. At least not in my experience or the experience of most men I know.)
Well, you must know different people than I do, because I know a ton of women who dated, and then married, yes guys who were friends first.
_____________________________
Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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RE: How soon do you know... - 9/19/2008 11:32:59 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2675
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
Now I know why so many of my friends in the past and myself have had our hearts broken too many times....in a woman's mind, a guy is asking her out because he is starting a relationship, not because he is seeing IF he is going to start one.
There's no relationship until at least the third date. You don't even know them well enough to talk about a relationship before then. He asks her out to get to know her. nothing more.
Well, in the case I was referring to in my head (regarding myself..I will respect the privacy of my friends) I had known the guy since childhood, and we already knew each other quite well...and at the time, we were going to the same church....and his behavior each Sunday was enough to imply that he had a little more in mind than the one and only date we ever went on...and lest you think it was my imagination, others had the same impression (including his uncle and dad)..I've never spoken of this before on here(this isn't the courtship guy, it's someone else)...of course he did take me to a basketball game(and dinner before)...basketball holds no interest for me..though believe me, I tried...of course he had to go back to college (far away) two days later, and by the time he was home, I believe we were already in different churches..I dunno, it's all fading in my mind now..I was young at the time? 19, I think? I dunno, it was only my 2nd date ever, and his 3rd ever...of course he is still single..I see him in town now and then..and we're friendly.....but it's not really there for me now anyway...ok I have totally rambled....and I think I have adrifted far off from my original point..if I can even figure out what it was anymore.
_____________________________
Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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