RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on economic issues?
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/23/2008 11:59:40 AM
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adelphi_sky
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I trust Obama. Anyone remember the gas tax holiday fiasco? Yeah. A lot that would've done. The fundamentals of our economy are strong? Firing people because they happen to be around during the economic crisis without explanation or insight into the source of the problems? Yeah. I have no confidence in a leader like that concerning economic issues. Even if I was a staunch republican, McCain would disappointment me. I don't feel he has a strong enough grasp of what's going on to be shooting off at the mouth about who's to blame and wanting to fire people. Sheesh. Calm down. lol
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/23/2008 1:39:49 PM
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jadab
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
If we are to believe Raines, he did have a couple of telephone conversations with someone in the Obama campaign.
And why would we do that?
"Checking the facts" is a lot more than just finding a contradictory article.
You are so right. So Raines has said he is not an advisor and the Obama campaign has said he is not an advisor. Feel free to find and document a reputable source that says that yes, in fact, Mr. Raines is and has been an official campaign advisor. Feel free. I did search and the only thing I found was the quote I used, which is from the source that the McCain campaign based their claim upon.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/23/2008 1:43:52 PM
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jadab
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cog41
In answer to the op, I trust McCain-Palin more than Obama-Biden.
That's not saying much since I don't "trust" Obama-Biden at all.
Except I trust they will raise my taxes,open the borders even more,weaken NATO, weaken our military, hang Israel out to dry,try to take our firearms,and force the liberal agenda down the throat of public schools,limit free speech on the airways, etc etc etc....
You trust that they will raise your taxes? You are truly blessed to be among those making $250,000+ per year. Where are you basing the rest of your claims? Specifically, what leads you to believe they will limit free speech? Please point me to your source. Thank you.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/23/2008 1:52:29 PM
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jadab
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Here's the issue with the 'trust' factor:
If you blindly trust any candidate, you will take what they say as the absolute truth and that is dangerous or at least counterproductive. This is the case in point. You saw a McCain ad, trusted it to be true, and came and posted that info without verifying it. Instead, you took the bait and started your research exactly where the campaign hoped you would - on a quest to see exactly HOW BAD these two people who are allegedly advising Obama are. So you read volume upon volume of information about them and their misdeeds and you naturally tie those things with Obama to further your case against him when in actuality the ad was misleading in the first place.
All of these candidates are human and they want to win. Don't let someone lie to you just because you don't like the other guy. I am voting for Obama, but I fact check his ads just the same. More than that, I don't "forward, forward" anything political.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/23/2008 2:25:41 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7778
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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As far as historical perspectives on the current economic crisis, I thought gaffe-meister Joe Biden had some interesting insight into how to handle it:
Joe Biden's denunciation of his own campaign's ad to Katie Couric got so much attention last night that another odd note in the interview slipped by.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the princes of greed," Biden told Couric. "He said, 'Look, here's what happened.'"
As Reason's Jesse Walker footnotes it: "And if you owned an experimental TV set in 1929, you would have seen him. And you would have said to yourself, 'Who is that guy? What happened to President Hoover?'"
One can only hope Roosevelt will come on television now and tell us what happened, because it seems apparent Biden has no clue.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/23/2008 7:33:18 PM
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cog41
Posts: 613
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: The Great State of Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
quote:
ORIGINAL: cog41
In answer to the op, I trust McCain-Palin more than Obama-Biden.
That's not saying much since I don't "trust" Obama-Biden at all.
Except I trust they will raise my taxes,open the borders even more,weaken NATO, weaken our military, hang Israel out to dry,try to take our firearms,and force the liberal agenda down the throat of public schools,limit free speech on the airways, etc etc etc....
You trust that they will raise your taxes? You are truly blessed to be among those making $250,000+ per year. Where are you basing the rest of your claims? Specifically, what leads you to believe they will limit free speech? Please point me to your source. Thank you.
They support revising the fairness doctrine. That limits ability to hear my fellow conservatives and libertarians.
Even with that, and raising taxes i wouldn't vote for Obama simply because of his support for abortion and gun control.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/23/2008 9:24:02 PM
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relady
Posts: 1281
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quote:
BTW, I'm still reading up on Raines and Johnson, and there needs to be a whole lot more written to highlight what has been going on at Fannie Mae and how these two guys, who are Democrats, are part of the problem Fannie Mae became, and that Fannie Mae is the crux of this problem we're experiencing on Wall Street. You should be very happy to hear the FBI is launching an investigation into all the banks that have failed and Fannie and Freddie. I suspect it will go on for quite some time but that eventually some heads will roll. As they should.  I know i was happy to hear it.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/24/2008 12:13:38 AM
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cog41
Posts: 613
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
BTW, I'm still reading up on Raines and Johnson, and there needs to be a whole lot more written to highlight what has been going on at Fannie Mae and how these two guys, who are Democrats, are part of the problem Fannie Mae became, and that Fannie Mae is the crux of this problem we're experiencing on Wall Street. You should be very happy to hear the FBI is launching an investigation into all the banks that have failed and Fannie and Freddie. I suspect it will go on for quite some time but that eventually some heads will roll. As they should. I know i was happy to hear it.
If any heads do roll, and doubt many will, I hope Congressional heads are among them.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/24/2008 9:32:05 AM
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relady
Posts: 1281
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
I also don't think many heads will roll and especially not in Congress. They'll choose a scapegoat or three and then it will be over in their minds. Hide and watch. You're probably right. But keep in mind the FBI is looking for people who committed fraud within these organizations, so presumably they'll be looking at the top levels of management. They won't be looking at Congress, unless they find something within one of the banks that might lead them there. Which could happen. I think it all depends on how extensive the investigation is.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/24/2008 10:37:39 AM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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I agree that Congress will not be looked at, and I didn't expect it.
I hope the people realize that the FBI is not the way to hold congress accountable. That should happen at the ballot box, but sadly, most people don't really know what's going on and don't care until they can't get a loan at the bank.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/24/2008 1:46:48 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8028
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The democrats have never had a grasp of what makes the economy work. Their answer is always "raise taxes".
I'm going to cheat and post an email I recieved:
"George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...
But American's wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes--we got 'CHANGE' all right. In the PAST YEAR:
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted ;
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION
DOLLARS and prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) as I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~
$2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL
FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!
YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE...AND WE SURE GOT IT! ....
REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY CONGRESS!!
AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!
JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?"
When democrats rule, we all suffer.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 10:27:14 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
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If "CONGRESS (has) DONE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" these last 2 years,
how did they cause all these things you list?
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 11:59:00 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8028
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
If "CONGRESS (has) DONE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" these last 2 years,
how did they cause all these things you list?
When democrats are in congress consumer confidence always drops. We know they don't know what to do..
Now as to the "Absolutely nothing" That should be rephrased absolutely nothing good. They've blocked drilling for our own oil among other things.
Normally I consider gridlock in congress to be a good thing. The less they do the less it costs us. But the bottom line is that congress influences the econoomy much more than the president does and this democrat congress has brought about a tanking economy.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 12:06:24 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 619
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...
this is what caused some of this **** anyways. I am not a democrat by any means and don't endorse them, however people were living large on money they did not have. They were living an outright lie.
G
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 1:15:05 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8028
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
quote:
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...
this is what caused some of this **** anyways. I am not a democrat by any means and don't endorse them, however people were living large on money they did not have. They were living an outright lie.
G
This is true. and a lot of this was driven by mortgages to people who were not credit worthy. Now we are left holding the bag. because the democrats cronies messed up.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 2:39:20 PM
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LabGuy
Posts: 3350
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: NW Pennsylvania
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
Normally I consider gridlock in congress to be a good thing. The less they do the less it costs us. But the bottom line is that congress influences the econoomy much more than the president does and this democrat congress has brought about a tanking economy.
Call me a paranoid conspiracy nut ("You're a paranoid conspiracy nut!") but I honestly wonder if there wasn't deliberate, intentional action taken to achieve this result. Discontent with a poor economy got President Clinton elected. That lesson was *not* lost on the Democratic Party.
It would be very interesting to go through the major decisions (and/or inactions) that affected the economy over the past two years and see if there is a clear pattern.
Maybe it all did just happen. Doesn't mean we shouldn't take a hard look. (Yes, I distrust politicians that much when they have a motivated self-interest. Capturing the White House is a big motivation.)
-Robb
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 3:34:01 PM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
The democrats have never had a grasp of what makes the economy work. Their answer is always "raise taxes".
I'm going to cheat and post an email I recieved:
"George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...
But American's wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes--we got 'CHANGE' all right. In the PAST YEAR:
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted ;
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION
DOLLARS and prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) as I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~
$2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL
FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!
YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE...AND WE SURE GOT IT! ....
REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY CONGRESS!!
AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!
JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?"
When democrats rule, we all suffer.
quote:
George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
This email claim has been determined to be factually inaccurate or FALSE: http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/votedforchange.asp
Of course you didn't double-check beforeyou posted it, though. Why would you?
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 4:10:27 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
If "CONGRESS (has) DONE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" these last 2 years,
how did they cause all these things you list?
When democrats are in congress consumer confidence always drops. We know they don't know what to do..
Now as to the "Absolutely nothing" That should be rephrased absolutely nothing good.
Pretty powerful, these Demoncrats, to cause all that stuff in a little over a year.
I hear they're also Creeping Socialists;
If I were you I'd buy a nite-light.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 4:54:39 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8028
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
The democrats have never had a grasp of what makes the economy work. Their answer is always "raise taxes".
I'm going to cheat and post an email I recieved:
"George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...
But American's wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes--we got 'CHANGE' all right. In the PAST YEAR:
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted ;
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION
DOLLARS and prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) as I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~
$2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL
FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!
YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE...AND WE SURE GOT IT! ....
REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY CONGRESS!!
AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!
JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?"
When democrats rule, we all suffer.
quote:
George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
This email claim has been determined to be factually inaccurate or FALSE: http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/votedforchange.asp
Of course you didn't double-check beforeyou posted it, though. Why would you?
As usual snopes is somewhat liberal in most of their leanings. Their "proof" didn't address the issues however. As to control of congress, Bernie Sanders and Lieberman are both liberals who vote dem more often than not. That gives the dems control of the house and the senate. Enough to block the republicans from doing anything good.
I'd need to see a point by point explanation of why each of these things changed ONLY afer the dems took control.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 4:55:53 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8028
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
Normally I consider gridlock in congress to be a good thing. The less they do the less it costs us. But the bottom line is that congress influences the econoomy much more than the president does and this democrat congress has brought about a tanking economy.
Call me a paranoid conspiracy nut ("You're a paranoid conspiracy nut!") but I honestly wonder if there wasn't deliberate, intentional action taken to achieve this result. Discontent with a poor economy got President Clinton elected. That lesson was *not* lost on the Democratic Party.
I wouldn't put it past them at all.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 5:34:00 PM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
The democrats have never had a grasp of what makes the economy work. Their answer is always "raise taxes".
I'm going to cheat and post an email I recieved:
"George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...
But American's wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes--we got 'CHANGE' all right. In the PAST YEAR:
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted ;
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION
DOLLARS and prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) as I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~
$2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL
FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!
YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE...AND WE SURE GOT IT! ....
REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY CONGRESS!!
AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!
JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?"
When democrats rule, we all suffer.
quote:
George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
This email claim has been determined to be factually inaccurate or FALSE: http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/votedforchange.asp
Of course you didn't double-check beforeyou posted it, though. Why would you?
As usual snopes is somewhat liberal in most of their leanings. Their "proof" didn't address the issues however. As to control of congress, Bernie Sanders and Lieberman are both liberals who vote dem more often than not. That gives the dems control of the house and the senate. Enough to block the republicans from doing anything good.
I'd need to see a point by point explanation of why each of these things changed ONLY afer the dems took control.
...so the Dems were somehow responsible for the credit free-for-all that preceded this mess? They were responsible for the deficit created by the enormous cost of the war over the WMDs that never were?
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 6:03:39 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1750
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
...so the Dems were somehow responsible for the credit free-for-all that preceded this mess? They were responsible for the deficit created by the enormous cost of the war over the WMDs that never were?
Um, yea! They were the ones who opened up crazy unconventional mortgages to people who couldn't really afford them because they wanted the votes and then dictated that Freddie and Fannie would take those absurdly risky debts.
And you could certainly argue that the situation Bush inherited in the Middle East was a direct result of eight years of Clinton doing nothing but trying to appease the fanatics and hope they wouldn't affect HIS legacy.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/25/2008 10:40:45 PM
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relady
Posts: 1281
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
Um, yea! They were the ones who opened up crazy unconventional mortgages to people who couldn't really afford them because they wanted the votes and then dictated that Freddie and Fannie would take those absurdly risky debts.
And you could certainly argue that the situation Bush inherited in the Middle East was a direct result of eight years of Clinton doing nothing but trying to appease the fanatics and hope they wouldn't affect HIS legacy.
Only on another planet in a fantasy world would this even come close to being true OR relevant. When you are the "captain" of the ship and the ship goes down on your watch its YOUR fault. Period. Trying to lay this at the feet of the Democrats is disingenuous at best. But, good try. Most of us ain't buyin today.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/26/2008 2:19:26 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8028
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
Um, yea! They were the ones who opened up crazy unconventional mortgages to people who couldn't really afford them because they wanted the votes and then dictated that Freddie and Fannie would take those absurdly risky debts.
And you could certainly argue that the situation Bush inherited in the Middle East was a direct result of eight years of Clinton doing nothing but trying to appease the fanatics and hope they wouldn't affect HIS legacy.
Only on another planet in a fantasy world would this even come close to being true OR relevant. When you are the "captain" of the ship and the ship goes down on your watch its YOUR fault. Period. Trying to lay this at the feet of the Democrats is disingenuous at best. But, good try. Most of us ain't buyin today.
Actually if the prior captain screwed it up so badly you are cut a whole lot of slack in order to get things righted. And clinton did screw it up badly.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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