RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on economic issues?
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/26/2008 4:40:25 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2918
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
Um, yea! They were the ones who opened up crazy unconventional mortgages to people who couldn't really afford them because they wanted the votes and then dictated that Freddie and Fannie would take those absurdly risky debts.
And you could certainly argue that the situation Bush inherited in the Middle East was a direct result of eight years of Clinton doing nothing but trying to appease the fanatics and hope they wouldn't affect HIS legacy.
Only on another planet in a fantasy world would this even come close to being true OR relevant. When you are the "captain" of the ship and the ship goes down on your watch its YOUR fault. Period. Trying to lay this at the feet of the Democrats is disingenuous at best. But, good try. Most of us ain't buyin today.
Nope. You still have it wrong. They are both at fault. Let me make that clear -- both Clinton and Bush are at fault. Both the Republicans and the Democrats are at fault. I'm sick of them all. It's all about power and being the recipients of influence peddling. If there are some in Washington (both parties) who are ethical, they are few and far between.
The only reason I'm voting for McCain (who was not my pick) over Obama is that he's less of a socialist. Other than that, I could do without either one of them.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/26/2008 5:56:35 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
I think the imperfection of information and perception are two of the biggest reasons pure capitalism can't possibly work. People simply cannot be exposed to and understand all the information necessary to make an informed decision about many, many things. There is a paucity of time and attention on the part of individuals, and putting under-informed individuals with not a lot of free time into groups isn't going to necessarily make things any better.
That just sums up the socialist mindset. You are too stupid to decide what to do with your money, so we, the government, will spend it for you.
The current mess that we are in was not a capitalism issue. Interest rates that were far lower than they should have been falsly inflated the price of houses. Mortgages were given to people who based on their credit history should have never qualified and big surprise, they aren't making their payments! This was not unregulated capitalism, this was overlyregulated inflated capitalism. Pure capitalism would succede because people would ulitimately learn from their mistakes. There would be ups and downs, but in the end we would all be much better off. Now in this mess, we are still bailing them out so they aren't learning a thing. Let it go let the cards fall. We will bounce back.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/26/2008 6:00:59 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1270
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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quote:
The current mess that we are in was not a capitalism issue. Interest rates that were far lower than they should have been falsly inflated the price of houses. Mortgages were given to people who based on their credit history should have never qualified and big surprise, they aren't making their payments! This was not unregulated capitalism, this was overlyregulated inflated capitalism. Pure capitalism would succede because people would ulitimately learn from their mistakes. There would be ups and downs, but in the end we would all be much better off. Now in this mess, we are still bailing them out so they aren't learning a thing. Let it go let the cards fall. We will bounce back.
I'm going to have to keep an eye on you from now on. That was the most concise and correct explanation yet seen on this forum, and it's quite correct.
_____________________________
Molon Labe
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/26/2008 9:43:12 PM
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relady
Posts: 1281
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
They are both at fault. Let me make that clear -- both Clinton and Bush are at fault. Both the Republicans and the Democrats are at fault. I'm sick of them all. It's all about power and being the recipients of influence peddling. If there are some in Washington (both parties) who are ethical, they are few and far between. On this I believe we can somewhat agree, although I still lean toward giving the Repubs the lionshare of the blame for the current problems at hand.  On the part I bolded...I agree completely!!
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/27/2008 3:26:17 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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Whoever the opposite is of GWB.
For years I have been hearing give the big corporations money to hire people.
Instead they cut jobs and paid big salaries to CEOS.
Don't tax the rich and it will trickle down.
The fraud, mismanagement, and outright lying had trickled down to us.
Stop regulation-someone needs to mind the cookie jar. period.
It's not working.
I really don't like either of the candidates, but we gotta tip the scales back fairly.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/27/2008 10:01:55 PM
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jbow
Posts: 772
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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I don't trust either party but I trust the Republicans more than the Democrats but... they need to step up and do the right, conservative, thing. The main reason we are in this mess is because of Democrat legislation that makes lenders make loans to people who cannot qualify for them, see the community reinvestment act of 1977. Barney Frank and company require banks to make bad loans, by empowering groups like ACORN, then when things go bad they point the finger at those bankers. It is incredible. Now the congress wants us to bailout these banks and lenders while taking no responsibility for it all. They need to admit that it is their, congress', fault that this all happened. Private business would never have made bad loans to unqualified people without the government manipulation...
I heard something worth repeating last night from Barry Goldwater Jr... "Don't let the dog watch your food and don't let congress watch your money".
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/28/2008 12:03:24 AM
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Ex-GOPer4Obama
Posts: 38
Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
Oh my goodness! Let me think...do I trust Mr. Obama? Yea, sure! I'm glad we've finally got a Presidential candidate who sees how horrible the United States is and recognizes that Capitalism is a "failed philosophy".
quote:
This country can’t afford another four years of this failed philosophy. For years, I have consistently called for modernizing the rules of the road to suit a 21st century market – rules that would protect American investors and consumers. And I’ve called for policies that grow our economy and our middle-class together. That is the change I am calling for in this campaign, and that is the change I will bring as President.
(of course I'm not serious)
I CHOOSE THE SMART GUY
The "failed philosophy" is the Bush-McCain-Gramm practice of capitalism, which expands the gap between the very rich and the rest of us. A philosophy that insists that crumbs from the rich folks' table will "trickle down" to us. Meanwhile, the rich folks are sending our jobs to India and China so that they can make even more moola. You could throw in the deregulation of the financial and energy markets as a part of that failed philosophy.
McCain is clueless about economics. He looks to people like Phil Gramm to tell him what to do. Of course, Gramm is the guy who helped bring about the deregulation that gave us $4.50/gallon gasoline this summer and the Wall Street meltdown. McCain has admitted time and again that he doesn't know much about the economy. We should assume, for once, that he is actually telling the truth and vote for the smart guy (i.e., Senator Barack Obama). It's not a hard choice: The magna cum laude Harvard Law grad vs. the guy who finished 5th from the bottom of his approx. 900-member graduating class at the Naval Academy. I choose the smart guy.
We can't literally CANNOT afford another 4 years of being led by another upper-crust C-student.
_____________________________
What does God hate?
Proverbs 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH0xzsogzAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tc7BF_Fd7I
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/28/2008 12:07:44 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7778
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
I CHOOSE THE SMART GUY
The "failed philosophy" is the Bush-McCain-Gramm practice of capitalism, which expands the gap between the very rich and the rest of us. A philosophy that insists that crumbs from the rich folks' table will "trickle down" to us. Meanwhile, the rich folks are sending our jobs to India and China so that they can make even more moola. You could throw in the deregulation of the financial and energy markets as a part of that failed philosophy.
So you don't care for capitalism?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/28/2008 12:12:18 AM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
The current mess that we are in was not a capitalism issue. Interest rates that were far lower than they should have been falsly inflated the price of houses. Mortgages were given to people who based on their credit history should have never qualified and big surprise, they aren't making their payments! This was not unregulated capitalism, this was overlyregulated inflated capitalism. Pure capitalism would succede because people would ulitimately learn from their mistakes. There would be ups and downs, but in the end we would all be much better off. Now in this mess, we are still bailing them out so they aren't learning a thing. Let it go let the cards fall. We will bounce back.
I'm going to have to keep an eye on you from now on. That was the most concise and correct explanation yet seen on this forum, and it's quite correct.
Thanks for the props! I am student of Ron Paul and Dave Ramsey. I can say this. If everybody went through Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University and truly worked the baby steps. Our economy would be solid. In reality it's simple, don't buy things you can't afford!
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/28/2008 12:16:51 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7778
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
If everybody went through Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University and truly worked the baby steps. Our economy would be solid. In reality it's simple, don't buy things you can't afford!
Are they part of this program?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/28/2008 12:22:29 AM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
If everybody went through Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University and truly worked the baby steps. Our economy would be solid. In reality it's simple, don't buy things you can't afford!
Are they part of this program?
That's funny. That is a very simplified version of FPU. It's actually very helpful and while a lot of it is common sense, it actually helps in planning how to get out of debt and then to save money for retirement, college, etc. Monthly budget plans etc.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/28/2008 3:54:34 PM
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Ex-GOPer4Obama
Posts: 38
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I CHOOSE THE SMART GUY
The "failed philosophy" is the Bush-McCain-Gramm practice of capitalism, which expands the gap between the very rich and the rest of us. A philosophy that insists that crumbs from the rich folks' table will "trickle down" to us. Meanwhile, the rich folks are sending our jobs to India and China so that they can make even more moola. You could throw in the deregulation of the financial and energy markets as a part of that failed philosophy.
So you don't care for capitalism?
If the Bush-McCain practice of catering to the wealthy and powerful at the expense of working families, folks enslaved in poverty, and sick folks who can't afford the care they need is capitalism, do you think Jesus would care for capitalism? The American economic system is not supposed to be this out of balance in favor of the privileged few. Through deregulation, the neocons have perverted the system to help the well-to-do by taking advantage of average Americans hoping to have their own small piece of the American dream.
Until just a few days ago, McCain has stubbornly stood for more of the same policies that have made George W. Bush an abysmal failure. If we are to believe that McCain REALLY wants more regulation of Wall Street (as he has suggested only very recently), then his first step should be to hire on a completely new set of economic advisers for his campaign. Otherwise, we have no choice but to expect that Senator Magoo would continue driving our country in the wrong direction!
McCain's campaign is teeming with lobbyists working to preserve the status quo. McCain has tried to rip off Obama's theme of change, but if you buy that, you might also be interested in a federally funded road to nowhere made possible by McCain's porky, er, perky running mate. Don't count on the lovely Miss D in Economics 101 to reform Washington or have anything useful to contribute to the betterment of our economy.
I'm voting for Barack Obama and Joe Biden. We need leaders who possess the intellectual vigor to actually read books, let alone 2 1/2-page reports, and to ask questions of someone other than a pack of lobbyists for the fat cats. http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/what_actually_happened_yesterd_1.html Like I said in the previous post, I'm voting for the smart guys. No more stupid presidents!
_____________________________
What does God hate?
Proverbs 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH0xzsogzAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tc7BF_Fd7I
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RE: Which presidential ticket do you trust more on econ... - 9/28/2008 5:00:39 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1750
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
If everybody went through Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University and truly worked the baby steps. Our economy would be solid. In reality it's simple, don't buy things you can't afford!
Are they part of this program?
That's funny. That is a very simplified version of FPU. It's actually very helpful and while a lot of it is common sense, it actually helps in planning how to get out of debt and then to save money for retirement, college, etc. Monthly budget plans etc.
Dh and I just started FPU (after talking about it for several years). And we absolutely loved that skit. It was so ridiculous and so realistic at the same time. Rgsoundguy is absolutely right, though. We can (and should) yell and scream about the policies of the Congress and the past several Administrations who got us into this mess . . . but if you're finances really are your responsibility and we've got no one to blame but ourselves. We're the ones who took out those mortgages and credit cards. And we're the ones who voted for those bozoes!
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