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:: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patriotic du... - 9/18/2008 7:14:29 PM
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earthless
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By DOUGLASS K. DANIEL, Associated Press Writer Thu Sep 18, 9:15 AM ET
WASHINGTON - Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden said Thursday that paying more in taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans. In a new TV ad that repeats widely debunked claims about the Democratic tax plan, the Republican campaign calls Obama's tax increases "painful."
Under the economic plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less — the vast majority of American taxpayers — would receive a tax cut.
Although Republican John McCain claims that Obama would raise taxes, the independent Tax Policy Center and other groups conclude that four out of five U.S. households would receive tax cuts under Obama's proposals.
"We want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people," Biden said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America."
Noting that wealthier Americans would indeed pay more, Biden said: "It's time to be patriotic ... time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut."
STORY HERE
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 7:15:13 PM
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todd_t
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A boneheaded statement, not that I make over $250K per year.
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In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 7:17:20 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6207
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
A boneheaded statement, not that I make over $250K per year.
For some in our nation their political reality is that those who become successful are to be reviled and punished with oppressive and confiscatory taxation.
Worse, they are to be considered the enemy of working men and women who are portrayed as conspiring to ruin the lives of average Americans.
It never occurs to the class warfare specialists that rich people got that way generally because they work hard and take enormous risks. And as I often remind them, and remind you, I've never been hired by a poor person.
These class envy individuals are farther away than ever from the words of President Lincoln who said, "You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."
Everything some people stand for today is the polar opposite of this guiding American principle.
It's a telling sign when it seems that our national symbol should be replaced. At our current pace, it will no longer be apt for it to be an American eagle. But instead a sow, a pig, that is being suckled by so many interests that it is being run dry.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 7:21:59 PM
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csl7037
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That's easy for Biden to say when he's got lobbyists paying for his house!
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Under the economic plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less — the vast majority of American taxpayers — would receive a tax cut.
Although Republican John McCain claims that Obama would raise taxes, the independent Tax Policy Center and other groups conclude that four out of five U.S. households would receive tax cuts under Obama's proposals.
And I'm so tired of this smoke and mirrors. Americans are too stupid to realize how they'll be affected by what he wants to do to business in this country. If they fall for this, they'll get what they deserve...problem is, the small-business owner who signs my dh's checks doesn't deserve it, dh's 401K doesn't deserve the hit it'll take...we don't deserve it!
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 7:39:04 PM
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ManimalX
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Ain't it a stinker when liberal Democrats accidentally say what they mean? It doesn't happen often, but when it does it just validates everything conservatives claim about them.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 7:47:36 PM
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LivingParadox
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What a Dufus statement.
Beginning to understand why Joe got so few votes as the top of the ticket... He may actually take some votes from the bottom of the ticket.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 8:06:37 PM
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Dubya
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Every patriotic movement requires someone to lead.
When I see some of these Democratic politicians (or their mind-numbed minions) voluntarily contributing their excess earnings (say everything over $100,000) to the U.S. Treasury then maybe I would have more respect for them.... not saying I would ever follow that parade though.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 8:11:58 PM
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tafkam
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I for one will hand it to Biden, most of the time liberals cannot say what they really mean because they know it is so out of step with most Americans. But Biden trots it right out there for all to see.
If the GOP doesn't make policital hay out of this boneheaded comment, then they deserve the behind whuppin they get in Nov.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 10:30:35 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1953
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
For some in our nation their political reality is that those who become successful are to be reviled and punished with oppressive and confiscatory taxation.
Hi earthless.
Under crazy far-left liberals like Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon, and Ford, taxes were all higher than they currently are today. Indeed, Eisenhower had the highest marginal tax rate at 90%! Ford had it at 65%. I never knew how much traditional Republicans from the '30s 'till the '70s hated the rich! Never mind the fact that they had a budget to balance... not only was Ford oppressive and confiscatory towards the rich, he must have been one of the cruellest dictators in 20th century history for having tax rates nearly twice as high as the sinister Joe Biden wants them to go!
FACT: We have a $500 Billion deficit.
FACT: This deficit is going to grow, because we need to pay for the Republican Iraq war, and the bail-out of financial institutions whose demise began with the Republican repeal of the Glass-Steagall act.
FACT: Cutting spending doesn't work when current taxes can't pay for the (Republican-necessitated) military, (Republican-sponsored) bail-outs, and (Republican-caused) debt service.
I guess the other approach we can take to all of this debt- rather than repaying it- is to devalue the currency. Guess who happens to have a lot of currency? As someone who has money in the bank (but a smaller amount than the typical rich person), I would rather pay higher taxes than watch my savings erode.
quote:
Worse, they are to be considered the enemy of working men and women who are portrayed as conspiring to ruin the lives of average Americans.
Did you watch the Bill O'reilly interview? Obama said nothing of the like. He said he was in the top tax bracket, and that it doesn't hurt all that much to pay more.
quote:
It never occurs to the class warfare specialists that rich people got that way generally because they work hard and take enormous risks. And as I often remind them, and remind you, I've never been hired by a poor person.
Oftentimes, these risks fall on the public. Look no further than the events over the last week in the capital markets.
quote:
These class envy individuals are farther away than ever from the words of President Lincoln who said, "You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."
Exactly, and coming up with a way to pay down the debt is completely different than wealth redistribution.
FACT: Taxes are less burdensome when you are preventing someone from affording a $10 million yacht this year than when you force 100,000 people to switch from peanut butter and jelly to ramen noodles.
FACT: Undoing the second round of Bush tax cuts and leaving taxes on the wealthy at lower rates than they were paying under Reagan isn't about class-warfare. It is about the deficit and about the fact that the rich can better afford 38% than the poor can afford 25%.
FACT: A lot of conservatives talk about personal responsibility and repaying your debts. Well, it's time for congress to engage in some responsibility of its own and start paying down the debt.
quote:
It's a telling sign when it seems that our national symbol should be replaced. At our current pace, it will no longer be apt for it to be an American eagle. But instead a sow, a pig, that is being suckled by so many interests that it is being run dry.
Let me guess, the pig is branded to the Gramm-Leach-Bliley or the Paulson ranch?
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 9/18/2008 10:55:00 PM >
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 11:01:46 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
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From: Pottstown, PA
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Taxes a patriotic duty? Tell that to Sam Adams! Part of the inspiration for the revolution was a tax protest! This man has no clue.
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Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/18/2008 11:50:18 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 343
Joined: 5/7/2007
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I have said this before and I quess it's time to say it again.
Some years ago now, I happened to cath a televisdion program in which an economist wa talking about taxation and the rich.
I can still remember him saying something so simple and profound that it has stayed with me.
If the rich were taxed as much as humanly possible and everyone else excused from taxes as much as possible, it will only succeed in keeping the government in operation only one day. That is why everyone is taxed- so the government could operate on a continuous basis.
IMO the problem is not taxes, and its not spending as much as it is about accountability.
Does anyone really know where are taxes go?
I am not sure if the man is still around, but it seems to me that a man by the name of Lesko wrote several books, not long ago, detailing for the average person how just about anyone can get all kinds of money from the government, that is just sitting around Washington DC.
blessedinnyc, Here is another little known fact -more money is actually spent on welfare in America than is spent on the military. As far as the amount of taxes spent, Welfare programs are number #1, the military is #2. Granted I came upon this fact some time ago, but I seriously doubt that has changed a whole lot.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 12:09:21 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1029
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quote:
Here is another little known fact -more money is actually spent on welfare in America than is spent on the military
...which programs are you considering "welfare"?
Entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicare, etc) certainly are greater than our military spend...
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 12:32:52 AM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 343
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wing2000,
As I indicated it has been some time ago since I heared this. I am not sure exactly what was being cionsidered as being part of welfare. I only remember it mainly because it was part of something a Sergeant Major was saying about the history of the American military and how the economic structure of our country and government was never designed to support the permanent military our natinal defense has demanded..
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 12:53:58 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
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Get in their face and take their money!
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 12:54:56 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
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“Welfare” is kind of ambiguous. Yet, like pornography, we know it when we see it. Let me explain. I moved from Alaska to Minnesota. Minnesota is known as a very liberal state. It just so happens that I moved to the poorest county in the state of MN.
You mentioned social security. Most folks think of social security as something designed for those who’ve retired from the work force and have paid their fair share into the system. Yet, social security is much more than that. If someone is injured and unable to work as a result of their injuries, they’re eligible for social security disability.
One of the ads I’ve seen on TV since arriving in the lower 48 are ads promoting the services of attorney’s representing folks trying to get a social security claim. In this area, there is a hospital every 50 miles or less. Solossoprano is gonna hate me for this, but there are far too many people in this area of working age and, physically able to work that live off the $750 per month they get from the government for their disability claims. It seems that many, not all, use depression as the disability they suffer from to get compensated each month.
Far too many of those using depression as a means of compensation would, likely, not be depressed if they had a reason to get up every morning and accomplish something outside self. Granted, there are many others who are truly disabled as a result of injury. But, like anything else, the few ruin it for the rest.
Where I lived in Alaska, we had one hospital and two clinics. The docs all knew one another. Disability claims were rare. Even those that seemed, on the surface, be truly disabled, had a hard time getting disability benefits. I can only imagine what it’s like in the rest of the nation where government programs have sapped incentive to work from people as a result of entitlement programs. One thing about Alaska, even though it attracts those seeking to get away from it all, people there know about hard work, independence and interdependence.
Welfare, here in the lower 48, seems to be seen more as a right than a privilege. The county I live, the poorest in this state, spends the majority of its budget on human services. Seeing that this is a Christian website, I continually ask, where is the church? Have we, the church, abdicated our role of loving our neighbor? Seems we’d rather let the state do that.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 1:53:51 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3549
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socialism?????????????????????? It reeks of it in my opinion. How much does Bo and his wife make, and wondering about Sentor Biden?
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F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 8:02:02 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
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So...I grow my business and hire more people and as my profits increase I inch toward the 250,000 in personal income...what do I do? Yep, taxation would force me to lay off people and decrease the growth of my business.
I think its just as patriotic to spend my own money than have the government watse it.
Welfare is hard to define? I can tell ya...if I ever got a check from the government, I would know it.
The government is not the answer. Jesus Christ is and always was.
Whom shall you serve?
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 8:48:57 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
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quote:
He said he was in the top tax bracket, and that it doesn't hurt all that much to pay more.
He and his wife made $4.2 million 2007 according to their tax returns. (most from book sales)
He paid $1.4 M in federal taxes
He gave to chairty only $240,370.00 dollars
Making 4.2 million dollars and most of it being from book sales is not going to hurt him very much. For the Mom and Pop operation who have 10 employees and earn 300K trying to grow a business, give pay raises, provide insurance to their employees and so on it's going to "hurt" them, their employees, customers and their community.
If Mom and Pop are Christians who believe in doing what scripture tells them to do they are probably going to be giving back to God a min. of a tithe and another couple of percent of their income from the needy in their church and community.
Remember he made 4.2M and made that stupid comment. He wants to raise the taxes on someone making 251,000. and up.
Remember it's the small business owners in this country who employ people. They cannot do it if Joe biden and I will quote him "take money" from them.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 8:56:23 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
So...I grow my business and hire more people and as my profits increase I inch toward the 250,000 in personal income...what do I do? Yep, taxation would force me to lay off people and decrease the growth of my business.
I question the simplicity of and general over-reliance upon this argument, particularly from the small business angle. Many small business owners I've seen/talked to sacrifice their own salaries for the sake of making the business successful and having the business be successful is in their long-term best interests. There are other business considerations than just maximizing the owner's profits. If laying people off causes the business to be less effective or competitive, then the owner is likely to only make his life worse by only thinking about his own paycheck. If the people weren't needed in the first place, then they weren't needed.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 8:57:18 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1754
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Excellent post, P31W. But even if this stupid tax increase idea wasn't going to destroy small business in this country, redistribution of wealth would still be WRONG and unAmerican at every level!
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 8:58:47 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
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I looked Eisenhower's tax rate for the highest group. It was for those who earned over $400,00.00 per year in todays dollars that would be the tax rate for those earning more than $3,282,187.27. That's a far cry from raising the taxes on those who earn over 250K.
We must also not forget that in the 50's we did not have as high a tax on many things as we have today. Speaking for myself I don't know what my states highest tax rate was and I know for a FACT there was no garbage tax! Something that has only been added in my area over the last couple of years. There were also less taxes placed on people trying to do business.....licesnes is just another tax that most people didn't need in the 50's. Today you cannot cut someone hair or toenails without paying that tax.
quote:
Under crazy far-left liberals like Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon, and Ford, taxes were all higher than they currently are today. Indeed, Eisenhower had the highest marginal tax rate at 90%! Ford had it at 65%. I never knew how much traditional Republicans from the '30s 'till the '70s hated the rich!
< Message edited by P31W -- 9/19/2008 9:05:53 AM >
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 9:02:41 AM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
redistribution of wealth would still be WRONG and unAmerican at every level!
That is what will destroy this country. I know that for my family (and we are a large one who works lots of hours and pays lots of taxes) we will have no reason to work so hard. So we won't. We are not working and sacrificing ourselves for the benefit of people who won't.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 9:05:43 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6207
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
Every patriotic movement requires someone to lead.
When I see some of these Democratic politicians (or their mind-numbed minions) voluntarily contributing their excess earnings (say everything over $100,000) to the U.S. Treasury then maybe I would have more respect for them.... not saying I would ever follow that parade though.
Wait.. you mean to tell me you do not respect Biden when he made $2.4 million dollars last year and gave a whopping $3,416.00 dollars to charity. The man obviously practices what he preaches, he is ultra patriotic.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 9:06:09 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
I looked Eisenhower's tax rate for the highest group. It was for those who earned over $400,00.00 per year in todays dollars that would be the tax rate for those earning more than $3,282,187.27.
The tax rates were still much higher than they are now and there were many more brackets (up to 26 brackets for head of household) with rates slowly increasing up to 91%.
Federal Individual Tax Rate History
EDIT: And the $400K figure is for couples filing jointly. The top bracket for singles was $200K.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/19/2008 9:07:40 AM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
I looked Eisenhower's tax rate for the highest group. It was for those who earned over $400,00.00 per year in todays dollars that would be the tax rate for those earning more than $3,282,187.27. That's a far cry from raising the taxes on those who earn over 250K.
We must also not forget that in the 50's we did not have as high a tax on many things as we have today. Speaking for myself I don't know what my states highest tax rate was and I know for a FACT there was no garbage tax! Something that has only been added in my area over the last couple of years. There were also less taxes placed on people trying to do business.....licesnes is just another tax that most people didn't need in the 50's. Today you cannot cut someone hair or toenails without paying that tax.
quote:
Under crazy far-left liberals like Hoover, Eisenhower, Nixon, and Ford, taxes were all higher than they currently are today. Indeed, Eisenhower had the highest marginal tax rate at 90%! Ford had it at 65%. I never knew how much traditional Republicans from the '30s 'till the '70s hated the rich!
Very good point!
In addition, it is important to remember that it is Congress, NOT the President, who establishes the tax rates.
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