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ORIGINAL: earthless
Complaining about the scammers, abusers, liars? Yes.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

Yeah, those rich megalomaniacs! Let's raise their taxes!

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

Anyone- even us silly liberals- can justify inconsistency by name-calling.

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ORIGINAL: its_GO_time

(Caution; sarcasm goggles required beyond this point)

I think Scrappy Joe Biden is on to something here. Just look at these "patriotic" quotes;
“I only regret that I have but one salary to give my country, and I’m not of a two-earner household”- Nathan Hale

“Give me the Earned Income Credit, or give me death”- Patrick Henry

"No Taxation without More Taxation!"- Reverend Jonathan Mayhew

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is cool!” – Geo. Washington

“O’er the land of the fees, and the home of the 1040-A” -Francis Scott Key

“Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized neighborliness.”-Calvin Coolidge

How could I Have been so wrong, all these years? I am truly in the tank for "Cool B.O"., and "Scrappy J.B.", in '08

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Remember that revenues aren't taxed; profits are.

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Finally, as a New Yorker, it really irks me when people from other states claim that they are suffering from higher taxes than me. I pay 28% federal, 7% social security (which you, ma'am do not have to pay past about $105K), 7% state, and 4% city. If you pay less than a 46% marginal tax on your take-home pay, you really can't say you suffer from "burdensome" taxes.

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I'm willing to see my maginal tax rates go up to 50% if it means paying down the debt.

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This inflation is only going to get worse until we fix the deficit.

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Taxes do not generally affect business decisions

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The sad thing is that redistribution of wealth is going to happen a whole lot more if we don't raise taxes.

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True, true, but I would just add two things:

1.) If we set up a higher tax bracket for those who make $3 million+, that would really get called class warfare.

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2.) Much of the business growth back in the '50s came from corporations owned by wealthy families.

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

That's right. The question then is: Is a modest increase in the top income tax rate and in the capital gains rate going to be considered "too burdensome" for a company whose owner makes over $250K/yr?

-Dan.

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

So...I grow my business and hire more people and as my profits increase I inch toward the 250,000 in personal income...what do I do? Yep, taxation would force me to lay off people and decrease the growth of my business.

I question the simplicity of and general over-reliance upon this argument, particularly from the small business angle. Many small business owners I've seen/talked to sacrifice their own salaries for the sake of making the business successful and having the business be successful is in their long-term best interests. There are other business considerations than just maximizing the owner's profits. If laying people off causes the business to be less effective or competitive, then the owner is likely to only make his life worse by only thinking about his own paycheck. If the people weren't needed in the first place, then they weren't needed.

-Dan.

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My point is that not all government regulation or oversight or licensing fees are a bad thing. It's a legitimate means of keeping in check the actions of people or businesses who would otherwise disregard (either through ignorance or greed) the safety and well-being of others. People complain about big government making it hard for businesses to operate, but what happens when there's no money to hire enough food inspectors and a restaurant doesn't keep its food at the right temperature and a bunch of people get sick? (as has happened here in Boston) What happens where there's no money to hire enough fire inspectors and a restaurant doesn't bother to clean grease out of its ventilation ducts, the building catches fire and a couple firemen die? (as happened here in Boston this year) What happens when a crane's load isn't rigged properly and its load falls, taking down the whole crane and killing 4 people. (as happened in Manhattan in March) Poor regulation and oversight in China coupled with ignorance and/or greed has resulted in a whole slew of contaminated products. Then there's the story of Russel Bliss spraying the roads of Times Beach, MO w/ dioxin-tainted oil. The whole town was so poisoned that it was eventually quarantined and bulldozed.

That's why we have regulations and licenses and permits.

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Garbage taxes are a function of the local government. It'd be better to look at your local government and see why they decided to enact a garbage tax. Somebody had to pay the garbage men in the past - where did that money come from and why is it not sufficient now?

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New oversight bodies have been created (or existing ones expanded) to administer these licenses and somebody's got to pay for it.

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ORIGINAL: earthless
It's not name calling, it's a truth statement.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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ORIGINAL: earthless
It's not name calling, it's a truth statement.

So you think that everyone who gets government benefits are scammers and abusers?

You sent back your rebate check, right?

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ORIGINAL: P31W
The IRS has one of my businesses classified as a "subdivider". That is we take raw land, clear it off, build roads into it, put up street lights, curbs, gutters, gas lines, sidewalks, etc.

Before we do this we must delcare how many 'lots' we will have in that subdivision. We must have all the legal and engineering stuff set in stone and the city approves it. (paying all along the way tons of hefty taxes to our government called by a number of rather creative names but they are no doubt about it taxes)

Now when we sell one lot.......the IRS looks at us and says OK Jim Bob you sold this one lot for $2.00. Your cost basis in this project is 10.00. You have 10 lots meaning you have a taxable income of 1.00.

Now you know and I know that in "reality" I have not made a profit. In fact I am still 8.00 in the red and after taxes I am 9.00 in the red. And no one has guaranteed me that they are going to buy the other lots and that I will ever see a actual profit from this deal. However Uncle Sam does not care. He decided that I have a profit and taxes me on that profit. It's taxed as "ordinary income".

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Again apples and oranges. I am self employed. I pay the top tax rate, 15.3% on the first what $100K of income and then 2.5% on the rest of my earned income, 5% state tax, 7% sales tax on everything I purchase other than drugs and I don't have fire protection.

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Instead I have to "pay" for a volunteer fire dept to be built, men trained and so on. I also don't have garbage pickup instead I am taxed seperately for that and must drive a couple of miles down the road with trash in my car to the green boxes. Where I live you cannot "walk" to work, church or school meaning you must have a car and our cars must have "inspection stickers" renewed each year along with the tag we must purchase each year and of course there is the .35cents per gall we pay in taxes on our fuel.

But then again the state and city inwhich we each live in is our choice. I could move to NYC and you could move to Mississippi.

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I don't want to pay more taxes. I want the government to clean up it's act. Stop wasteful spending, stop spending on things that are not "necessities" and do a major overhaul of the SSA and the welfare system.

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Go open a business and them come back and we can talk about this.

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There is also the flip side of the coin that would say cut gov. size, reduce unneeded services and spending, stop the welfare handouts and keep gov. size small, more accountable and less likely to waste what "is not theirs".

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I have no clue. If you are correct I say more power to them. They should be able to keep the lion share of what they earn.

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Are you suggesting that increasing the cost of doing business in one area does not cause the business to reduce costs in other areas? Apparently you've missed what businesses do when the cost of energy goes up.

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So in other words, assuming you are earning $350K/year, your marginal tax rate is 42.5%. This is lower than my marginal tax rate. Also, I pay a higher sales tax than you. Taxes are a fact of life, and I'd rather pay 50% today and 45% ten years from now than vice-versa.

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True, but NYC is a good place to get experience. -

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Aside from perhaps tax-avoidance strategies, you're not going to close your restaurant because taxes went up.

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The point is that the economy developed in the '50s while being taxed at 90%.

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: P31W

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Is a modest increase in the top income tax rate and in the capital gains rate going to be considered "too burdensome" for a company whose owner makes over $250K/yr?

Yes!

Have you ever tried to buy land, purchase materials to resale, build a building pay all the "taxes" also known as "permits" required to just open one business?

No. Can you detail some of them here as well as the final profit you expect to make on the building?

-Dan.

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ORIGINAL: P31W

I also forgot to mention that as am employer we must pay 6.2% on the first 100K? paid to our employess in taxes, another 1.45% in taxes on our employees total income, another 1.7% in taxes (unemployment) on the first 7K paid to each employee. These taxes have nothing to do with profit. We must pay them even if we don't see any profit.

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I do realize that if we "do" make a profit we can deduct these items but we are at risk for them reguardless if we make a profit or not. We owe them. We are responsible for them according to the IRS, SSA and the State.

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You do if you cannot pass that cost on to the consumer. If the consumer won't pay the added cost then I certainly don't plan to put "a lot of my money at risk" when I could have it earning me interest tax free in some institutional fund (I know a joke today) and go get a job paying me what I could make in the business.

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ORIGINAL: upNORTder

If the economy gets worse and we reach the 25% unemployment rate as during the great depression, how much higher do you think the overall tax rate will have to increase to compensate for all the revenue not collected? Since the poor and middle class always bears the brunt of any layoffs and will require more government provided services, there will be a doulble whammy on the system. Less tax revenue, more program expense, higher taxes on those with incomes.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I'd rather have 3% inflation and 50% taxes than 20% inflation and 35% taxes.

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: P31W

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Is a modest increase in the top income tax rate and in the capital gains rate going to be considered "too burdensome" for a company whose owner makes over $250K/yr?

Yes!

Have you ever tried to buy land, purchase materials to resale, build a building pay all the "taxes" also known as "permits" required to just open one business?

No. Can you detail some of them here as well as the final profit you expect to make on the building?

-Dan.

Here's one... In Sonoma County the building permit for a home was around 50K....

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"The County and other local agencies impose development impact fees on new development to fund infrastructure improvements including water and sewer utility improvements, schools, parks, and roads. Each of these fees is directly linked to the provision of services and facilities necessary to support residential development. The use of impact fees to fund local infrastructure is essential since other local sources of funding have
been restricted. At the same time the State and Federal government have eliminated nearly all funding for local infrastructure."

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ORIGINAL: Dubya

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I'd rather have 3% inflation and 50% taxes than 20% inflation and 35% taxes.

Makes about as much sense as:

“I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.”
- Dorothy Parker

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: P31W

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Is a modest increase in the top income tax rate and in the capital gains rate going to be considered "too burdensome" for a company whose owner makes over $250K/yr?

Yes!

Have you ever tried to buy land, purchase materials to resale, build a building pay all the "taxes" also known as "permits" required to just open one business?

No. Can you detail some of them here as well as the final profit you expect to make on the building?

-Dan.

Here's one... In Sonoma County the building permit for a home was around 50K....

For those who are interested, Sonoma County building fees (along with project estimates) can be found here.

The bulk of these fees are not for the "building permit" per se, but rather for things like inspection of newly installed water & sewer pipes and "impact fees" used to upgrade local schools, parks, and infrastructure to accommodate the increase in population.

From the County's web site:

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"The County and other local agencies impose development impact fees on new development to fund infrastructure improvements including water and sewer utility improvements, schools, parks, and roads. Each of these fees is directly linked to the provision of services and facilities necessary to support residential development. The use of impact fees to fund local infrastructure is essential since other local sources of funding have
been restricted. At the same time the State and Federal government have eliminated nearly all funding for local infrastructure."

So, ok, it costs a developer $50K in fees per house to build a new development in Sonoma County (which is not where P31W is, btw). Tell me, who should pay for the increased maintenance and upgrades needed for the roads that will now be more heavily trafficked? Who should pay for the new schools to accommodate the new kids that will be living in this area? Who should pay to inspect the new water and sewer lines to make sure they're installed properly? Since the developer is utilizing public services like roads and water lines in order to turn a profit, shouldn't he be the one to pay for the inspections and upgrade fees? Or should he be allowed to just make money and let the taxpayers pick up the tab for the increased congestion caused by his business?

-Dan.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
FACT: Taxes are less burdensome when you are preventing someone from affording a $10 million yacht this year than when you force 100,000 people to switch from peanut butter and jelly to ramen noodles.
FACT: Undoing the second round of Bush tax cuts and leaving taxes on the wealthy at lower rates than they were paying under Reagan isn't about class-warfare. It is about the deficit and about the fact that the rich can better afford 38% than the poor can afford 25%.

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ORIGINAL: rhippie

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
FACT: Taxes are less burdensome when you are preventing someone from affording a $10 million yacht this year than when you force 100,000 people to switch from peanut butter and jelly to ramen noodles.
FACT: Undoing the second round of Bush tax cuts and leaving taxes on the wealthy at lower rates than they were paying under Reagan isn't about class-warfare. It is about the deficit and about the fact that the rich can better afford 38% than the poor can afford 25%.

And if the poor were actually paying a 25% rate then they would NOT be living in the US since the poor only pay at a 15% Federal rate (if they even pay income taxes)

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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ORIGINAL: rhippie

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
FACT: Taxes are less burdensome when you are preventing someone from affording a $10 million yacht this year than when you force 100,000 people to switch from peanut butter and jelly to ramen noodles.
FACT: Undoing the second round of Bush tax cuts and leaving taxes on the wealthy at lower rates than they were paying under Reagan isn't about class-warfare. It is about the deficit and about the fact that the rich can better afford 38% than the poor can afford 25%.

And if the poor were actually paying a 25% rate then they would NOT be living in the US since the poor only pay at a 15% Federal rate (if they even pay income taxes)

Ok, Rhippie, if you want to get technical, I guess it's 22.65%, not 25%.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
That's fine- it is a collective burden that we must all work hard to pay down.

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the last tax decrease was for the rich.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
The sad thing is that redistribution of wealth is going to happen a whole lot more if we don't raise taxes. If we don't cut the budget deficit, we will eventually have to deal with inflation. A weaker dollar means that the wealthy have less wealth.