RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patriotic duty"
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/22/2008 4:51:03 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1955
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
Well knowing what you know ... surely you have looked at the historical data (excluding the anomaly of the Clinton years since there are too many contributing factors that had nothing to do with his administration at the time that came into play) that shows that we do indeed bring in more tax revenues when the people keep their money and are free to spend it ... boosting both the economy and the tax revenues from the people selling those things that have been bought? I am talking about the years before everything was placed on credit.
Well, the last time we really had a major tax increase was during WWII. The economy got out of the great depression during that time and later got into the largest boom in US history while keeping that tax rate; go figure.
Taxes also increased under Bush I and Clinton. These tax increases preceded the second largest economic boom in US history. If you call WWII and the Clinton years anomalies, I guess you've taken away all of my data points, however. I will admit that there is often a momentary pop in revenues- when capital gains taxes go on "clearance", you often get a large number of "buyers" (people selling their appreciated stock at a lower capital gains rate.) However, the long-term trend seems to be that the economy does well under high taxes, too.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/22/2008 4:55:16 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1955
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Taking more money from the populace to pay off debt that they created would be stealing in my book.
Ok, so go on and refuse to pay taxes and call it stealing. Taxes are a fact of life. There are some people who want no rules and no government services. However, most of us prefer some. Thus, if we must have some government services, it makes sense for us to figure out which ones we should spend money on using the democratic process. When that money gets spent- even if we didn't want it spent- we are honor-bound to repay whatever money we borrowed. Surely we had more control over our decision to spend money than our creditors.
quote:
It is not the job of government to ensure either health care or retirement income for ANYONE. It is not my fault nor the fault of most of the taxpaying public that there are many who have foresaken a strong family and community structure leaving them to rely on the government for sustenance when they won't or can no longer work. I freely give of my own time and money to help the poor then on top of that i have to pay for the government to filter even more of my money through dozens of bloated programs which skim overhead before distributing penny's on the dollar to the people that would be better served by the Church and the community.
Well, I guess we will have to undo social security and medicare. Let's pay back all of that debt that we owe to the folks who paid in and end the system.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/22/2008 6:27:59 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Ok, so go on and refuse to pay taxes and call it stealing. Taxes are a fact of life. There are some people who want no rules and no government services. However, most of us prefer some. Thus, if we must have some government services, it makes sense for us to figure out which ones we should spend money on using the democratic process. When that money gets spent- even if we didn't want it spent- we are honor-bound to repay whatever money we borrowed. Surely we had more control over our decision to spend money than our creditors.
I don't mind paying taxes for the government to do it's stated job but that job is not to feed me, to clothe me, to ensure that i retire happily, or to make sure that i can get a home loan. The governments job is to defend this nation, regulate trade, and maintain the infrastructure at the national level. You say that we must have some government services i say yes but they are the military and those departments which regulate trade. We do not get to decide democratically where the government should spend money, the government has a job to do and it should do so within it's means and not add responsibilities to itself in order to collect more money. I never said that we aren't honor bound to repay our debt but it should be done by cutting spending not squeezing more money out of the people.
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Well, I guess we will have to undo social security and medicare. Let's pay back all of that debt that we owe to the folks who paid in and end the system.
I social security was never a savings account, from day one people collected monies that they never paid in for and to this day the people paying in are paying for the prior generation's retirees and hoping that there will be some left for them later. I repeat, it is not the governments job to ensure me a retirement or healthcare, that is solely my responsibility.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/22/2008 8:39:03 PM
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wing2000
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quote:
The governments job is to defend this nation, regulate trade, and maintain the infrastructure at the national level.
I agree that is the primary government role. And I also believe it is our obligation not to pass on our debts to our grand children.
...and the Republicans have failed.
After eight years of the "with us or against us" Bush foreign policy....our military is over-extended, it's combat readiness is greatly reduced and soldiers/marines are being stretched beyond their physical and mental limits.
Our ports of entry are still not as secure as they should be and are infrastructure is literally falling apart (highways, bridges).
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/22/2008 9:46:25 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
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From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
The governments job is to defend this nation, regulate trade, and maintain the infrastructure at the national level.
I agree that is the primary government role. And I also believe it is our obligation not to pass on our debts to our grand children.
...and the Republicans have failed.
After eight years of the "with us or against us" Bush foreign policy....our military is over-extended, it's combat readiness is greatly reduced and soldiers/marines are being stretched beyond their physical and mental limits.
Our ports of entry are still not as secure as they should be and are infrastructure is literally falling apart (highways, bridges).
It isn't just the Republicans that have failed; the Democrats have failed as well. It is the fault of the majority of both parties that we are in such a mess; after all no one party has been in charge of both branches of Congress and the Presidency. Congress has passed laws that have caused irreperrable harm to this country and Presidents from both parties have signed them into law.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/22/2008 11:08:57 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1955
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
It isn't just the Republicans that have failed; the Democrats have failed as well. It is the fault of the majority of both parties that we are in such a mess; after all no one party has been in charge of both branches of Congress and the Presidency. Congress has passed laws that have caused irreperrable harm to this country and Presidents from both parties have signed them into law.
Hang on here. Republicans had six years to roll back all of that liberal spending. What did they do instead? They spent their time passing the patriot act, starting a war, trying to drill in ANWR, and trying to keep a lady in Florida on life support. In fact the budget deficit increased from that under Clinton.
I'd love it if both parties stopped spending money, but the truth is that unless we have a Republican congress and Democratic president, we'll never balance the budget.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 6:22:34 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I'd love it if both parties stopped spending money, but the truth is that unless we have a Republican congress and Democratic president, we'll never balance the budget.
No we will never have a balanced budget no matter who is in power until we the people stop voting with one hand while making the gimme gimme motion with the other. It is our fault that the government is in this shape, we did nothing to stop them, we keep voting them into office, and we keep asking for what is not rightfully ours and expecting the government to give it to us.
I see it in the very language that we use to describe government hand outs. Like this morning the mayor of houston (where i live) and the mayor of galveston were talking about asking the feds for reimbursement for the money they had to spend on Ike. Since when is it the federal government's fault that a Hurricane hit? If it isn't the federal government's fault and it surely isn't spelled out as the job of the fed then why do we the people expect the handouts? Well because we are too intrested in what we can get from the governement and less and less worried about what we can do to help ourselves.
I think right now the best thing the feds could do would be to not bail out irresponsible businesses. We the people, including large financial institutions, have to learn to survive on our own, without the help of nanny fed.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 8:21:05 AM
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earthless
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Hang on here. Republicans had six years to roll back all of that liberal spending.
Not with a Democrat congress, etc. Let's be honest adults, please. Congress controls the purse strings, that's American History 101 circa 8th grade.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 8:34:43 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Hang on here. Republicans had six years to roll back all of that liberal spending.
Not with a Democrat congress, etc. Let's be honest adults, please. Congress controls the purse strings, that's American History 101 circa 8th grade.
What Democrat Congress? The Republicans controlled both houses from 1995-2006, except for 2001-2002, when the Democrats had a 1-seat majority in the Senate.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 9:01:52 AM
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zamdad
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Both sides are to blame and, ultimately, we have to look at ourselves. We keep putting the same people in office time after time. And, like the politicians, we like to blame everyone else. If we're going to fix anything, we need to vote out career politicians and vote new ones in. Then, we have to stay current on issues and how our representatives are voting. Unfortunately, our tendency is to pull the lever or mark the box and forget about it until some type of crisis hits us where we live.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 9:22:55 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Both sides are to blame and, ultimately, we have to look at ourselves. We keep putting the same people in office time after time. And, like the politicians, we like to blame everyone else. If we're going to fix anything, we need to vote out career politicians and vote new ones in.
What does it matter if they're career politicians or not if they're still beholden to the same philosophies that have repeatedly caused problems?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 10:06:06 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1955
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Not with a Democrat congress, etc. Let's be honest adults, please. Congress controls the purse strings, that's American History 101 circa 8th grade.
So then when the Republican congress- and the Republican president- controlled the purse strings from 2000 to 2006, spending must have gone down, right?
quote:
Both sides are to blame and, ultimately, we have to look at ourselves. We keep putting the same people in office time after time. And, like the politicians, we like to blame everyone else. If we're going to fix anything, we need to vote out career politicians and vote new ones in. Then, we have to stay current on issues and how our representatives are voting. Unfortunately, our tendency is to pull the lever or mark the box and forget about it until some type of crisis hits us where we live.
I think we need to be realists, here:
1.) There's no way either party will cut spending.
2.) There's no viable third party candidate (though I will still probably give Bob Barr a shot.)
3.) There's no way to reduce the deficit except through a tax increase.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 10:54:47 AM
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Psalms274
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quote:
So then when the Republican congress- and the Republican president- controlled the purse strings from 2000 to 2006, spending must have gone down, right?
I think they were busy riding out all the filibusters ("The use of obstructionist tactics, especially prolonged speech making, for the purpose of delaying legislative action") staged by the Democrats during the judicial selection processes. They only had 55 seats and needed 60 to stop the shenanigans. And they were moving forward with the changes that were needed to keep our Country safe after witnessing what the system pre- 9/11 allowed. The Democrats staged quite a few delay tactics during those years .... and I think the Republicans finally just gave up.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 11:30:47 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1754
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I think we need to be realists, here:
1.) There's no way either party will cut spending.
2.) There's no viable third party candidate (though I will still probably give Bob Barr a shot.)
3.) There's no way to reduce the deficit except through a tax increase.
I am vehemently opposed to any tax increases whatsoever. But if I thought someone would take that money AND actually do something about the deficit, I'd begrudgingly go along with it - realizing it has to be done. But, up until and at this point, it's really just an excuse. And I'm in no mood to give these clowns another dime to be wasted while we just dig ourselves in deeper and deeper.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 12:36:38 PM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
1.) There's no way either party will cut spending.
3.) There's no way to reduce the deficit except through a tax increase.
So you would give people, who by your own admission are fiscally irresponsible, and give them more money. That is pure lunacy. The politicians will stop spending when we stop demanding services and DO NOT reelect anyone who votes for wasteful spending. I said it once and will say it again, you CAN NOT out earn stupid fiscal policy and that includes the US government.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 1:09:49 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6207
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
So then when the Republican congress- and the Republican president- controlled the purse strings from 2000 to 2006, spending must have gone down, right?
Nope, they were at fault too. But your post is absolutely one-sided and incorrect.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 1:48:45 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1955
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Nope, they were at fault too. But your post is absolutely one-sided and incorrect.
Fiscal responsibility isn't a one-sided issue. If there were any traditional fiscal conservative Republicans left over from the '60s, I'd be supporting them. In fact, there is a fiscal conservative Republican running against Lautenberg (Senator, D-NJ) who I do plan on voting for. But in the meantime, even if we manage to cut all of the liberal spending, we still aren't taxing enough to pay for the military, bail-outs, and debt service.
Here's the problem- Republicans have acted like supply-side neoconservatives for at least the past eight years. I see borrow-and-spend neoconservatism as less responsible than tax-and-spend liberalism. I would love to see Republicans start being fiscal conservatives again, but until then, I think Herb Kohl and Russ Feingold have a lot more in common with Barry Goldwater than George Bush or John McCain. (If only Lautenberg did, too...)
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 1:52:50 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1955
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
So you would give people, who by your own admission are fiscally irresponsible, and give them more money. That is pure lunacy. The politicians will stop spending when we stop demanding services and DO NOT reelect anyone who votes for wasteful spending. I said it once and will say it again, you CAN NOT out earn stupid fiscal policy and that includes the US government.
Both Republicans and Democrats want to spend our money and there is no free lunch. If we must decide between hyper-inflation and higher taxes, my view is that higher taxes will be less painful, but the cause-effect relationship will be much more direct.
They have a credit card with an infinite credit limit that we are co-signers on. Ignoring the credit card bill won't stop the spending.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 2:29:39 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
So you would give people, who by your own admission are fiscally irresponsible, and give them more money. That is pure lunacy. The politicians will stop spending when we stop demanding services and DO NOT reelect anyone who votes for wasteful spending. I said it once and will say it again, you CAN NOT out earn stupid fiscal policy and that includes the US government.
Both Republicans and Democrats want to spend our money and there is no free lunch. If we must decide between hyper-inflation and higher taxes, my view is that higher taxes will be less painful, but the cause-effect relationship will be much more direct.
They have a credit card with an infinite credit limit that we are co-signers on. Ignoring the credit card bill won't stop the spending.
Are you intentionally avoiding my actual point or do you just not get it. The only way out of this mess it to STOP SPENDING, PERIOD. More money only worsens the sickness. If we give the government more money all we accomplish is pushing the collapse further out, it has been shown where in recent years they made more money than ever but still the debt load increased and your solution is to give them even more money. THAT IS INSANE. That is continuing to give them a pass on wasting our money. We could give the government every penny we earn above and beyond our basic necessities and the only thing that would happen is that it would spend more money UNLESS we demand they stop spending. In the next election we vote out every incumbent that spends hand over fist and we continue to do it until they get the message.
Your defeatiest attitude that there is nothing we can do so let's just try to give them more money is part of what is wrong with this country today. We have no sense of personal responsibility so we expect the government to baby us and since we lack responsibility we don't hold our government accountable for spending wisely. Until we all accept our responsibilities and duties as citizens and expect our government to do the same nothing will change, we will just be handing the addict (the government) drugs (money) and they will eventually overdose (collapse from overspending). I am beginning to be of the mindset that a real crash, a real recession is just what this country needs to teach us that we can't rely on anyone but ourselves in this world and that government, in it's current form, has no desire to lower it's debt load.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 2:39:01 PM
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_jjp_
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You know what our true patriotic duty is? When it comes to taxation it is that we provide the government with an amount that is fair and allows it to do it's real job. Now at this time taxation should remain at the level it is and spending should be limited to the bare necessities of government and once the debt is paid down taxes should be cut to provide government with it's absolute necessities. The senators will lose their multitudes of aides, secretaries, offices, and perks but most of that won't be needed since the workload will be greatly decreased since they won't have to fight for money to save the three toed tree newt or to build a museum in their name. I will even be kind and not demand a decrease in their pay.
Our true patriotic duty is to vote out of office those who run our country into the ground but it is obvious that we are all too self-centered and greedy to care about anything but what government will do for me.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 3:17:30 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1955
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Are you intentionally avoiding my actual point or do you just not get it. The only way out of this mess it to STOP SPENDING, PERIOD.
I'd love for that to happen. However, the past 20 years have demonstrated that there's no way to really stop government spending. Both Republicans and Democrats want to spend more money. Cutting spending would violate several laws of politics, at this point; you've got better luch trying to reverse gravity.
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More money only worsens the sickness. If we give the government more money all we accomplish is pushing the collapse further out,
Well, pushing it further out is better than having it today. My view is that there almost always needs to be a certain amount of pain to improve any situation, and since higher taxes make things more painful, we can at the very least improve things by pushing them further out- and if we're lucky, we may even buy ourselves enough time to talk about cutting spending.
quote:
it has been shown where in recent years they made more money than ever but still the debt load increased and your solution is to give them even more money. THAT IS INSANE. That is continuing to give them a pass on wasting our money. We could give the government every penny we earn above and beyond our basic necessities and the only thing that would happen is that it would spend more money UNLESS we demand they stop spending. In the next election we vote out every incumbent that spends hand over fist and we continue to do it until they get the message.
Who said they'll increase spending? Neoconservative supply-siders have increased spending while revenues increased; not traditional conservatives, not liberals. IMHO, neoconservatism is dead- at least for the next fifteen years- but we still need a tax increase to clean up the mess.
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Your defeatiest attitude that there is nothing we can do so let's just try to give them more money is part of what is wrong with this country today.
Optimism got us into this mess. We need a healthy dose of realism to get us out.
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We have no sense of personal responsibility so we expect the government to baby us and since we lack responsibility we don't hold our government accountable for spending wisely.
Well, now it's time to do that. We need to do things that are painful but necessary. It is impossible to cut spending, so the only option is to raise taxes.
quote:
Until we all accept our responsibilities and duties as citizens and expect our government to do the same nothing will change, we will just be handing the addict (the government) drugs (money) and they will eventually overdose (collapse from overspending).
In other words, you're saying that we're giving the guy with a lot of credit card debt a job.
quote:
I am beginning to be of the mindset that a real crash, a real recession is just what this country needs to teach us that we can't rely on anyone but ourselves in this world and that government, in it's current form, has no desire to lower it's debt load.
I don't disagree. I think the government's place-if any- in the financial crisis is simply to ensure liquidity. If the fed wants to be a market-maker of last resort, that's ok. However, they shouldn't be doing the kind of bail-outs Paulson is proposing.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 3:51:33 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
Are you intentionally avoiding my actual point or do you just not get it. The only way out of this mess it to STOP SPENDING, PERIOD.
I'd love for that to happen. However, the past 20 years have demonstrated that there's no way to really stop government spending. Both Republicans and Democrats want to spend more money. Cutting spending would violate several laws of politics, at this point; you've got better luch trying to reverse gravity.
So you wholeheartedly believe that we can't stop government overspending so your answer is to give them more money? That is INSANE, if we can't stop their spending then no amount of money would be enough.
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More money only worsens the sickness. If we give the government more money all we accomplish is pushing the collapse further out,
Well, pushing it further out is better than having it today. My view is that there almost always needs to be a certain amount of pain to improve any situation, and since higher taxes make things more painful, we can at the very least improve things by pushing them further out- and if we're lucky, we may even buy ourselves enough time to talk about cutting spending.
so you advocate that we pass it on to our children and grand children, very noble of you.
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it has been shown where in recent years they made more money than ever but still the debt load increased and your solution is to give them even more money. THAT IS INSANE. That is continuing to give them a pass on wasting our money. We could give the government every penny we earn above and beyond our basic necessities and the only thing that would happen is that it would spend more money UNLESS we demand they stop spending. In the next election we vote out every incumbent that spends hand over fist and we continue to do it until they get the message.
Who said they'll increase spending? Neoconservative supply-siders have increased spending while revenues increased; not traditional conservatives, not liberals. IMHO, neoconservatism is dead- at least for the next fifteen years- but we still need a tax increase to clean up the mess.
Even you said they won't stop spending and it isn't just the neo-conservatives that have increased spending, it is every politician in washington.
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quote:
Your defeatiest attitude that there is nothing we can do so let's just try to give them more money is part of what is wrong with this country today.
Optimism got us into this mess. We need a healthy dose of realism to get us out.
so your brand of realism is to continue to ignore the real problem and attempt to pay our way out of debt while continuing to spend.
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quote:
We have no sense of personal responsibility so we expect the government to baby us and since we lack responsibility we don't hold our government accountable for spending wisely.
Well, now it's time to do that. We need to do things that are painful but necessary. It is impossible to cut spending, so the only option is to raise taxes.
It is not impossible to cut spending, it is impossible to cut spending and still make the masses happy. Well the governments job is not to make us happy. The truly painful thing would be to ween the masses from the teat of government entitlements and make us all work for everything we want. Personal responsibility is the only answer, continuing to allow government to rampantly spend our money is not going to change anything and giving them more would be USELESS.
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Until we all accept our responsibilities and duties as citizens and expect our government to do the same nothing will change, we will just be handing the addict (the government) drugs (money) and they will eventually overdose (collapse from overspending).
In other words, you're saying that we're giving the guy with a lot of credit card debt a job.
In this case the guy with debt has a really good job and still is irresponsible. You can not give someone with poor fiscal habits a good enough job to out earn their own stupidity. If we gave everything we earn and don't make them stop the spending we will still be in the same boat, just spending more to keep it afloat.
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 4:55:46 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Well, pushing it further out is better than having it today. My view is that there almost always needs to be a certain amount of pain to improve any situation, and since higher taxes make things more painful, we can at the very least improve things by pushing them further out- and if we're lucky, we may even buy ourselves enough time to talk about cutting spending.
This (the highlighted section) has been the problem for at least the past 20 years! NO ONE WANTS TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM! Let the next generation deal with it as long as I can get mine now!!
Don't you realize that if the problem had been dealt with 20 years ago it would have been less painful? If we push it off another 20 years we simply magnify the impact the fix has.
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: :: Joe Biden | "Paying higher taxes a patrioti... - 9/23/2008 5:09:31 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1955
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Well, pushing it further out is better than having it today. My view is that there almost always needs to be a certain amount of pain to improve any situation, and since higher taxes make things more painful, we can at the very least improve things by pushing them further out- and if we're lucky, we may even buy ourselves enough time to talk about cutting spending.
This (the highlighted section) has been the problem for at least the past 20 years! NO ONE WANTS TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM! Let the next generation deal with it as long as I can get mine now!!
Don't you realize that if the problem had been dealt with 20 years ago it would have been less painful? If we push it off another 20 years we simply magnify the impact the fix has.
Let me just make it clear that I think a tax hike- albeit painful- puts us in a better situation without borrowing against the future. Even if it only delays the inevitable- as jlp claims- it is still an incremental improvement.
Eventually, Americans won't be driving cars that run on gasoline. One might argue that we should stop drilling new oil and stop making hybrid cars, because "we are only giving crack to an addict". Whether or not this is true, most people would agree that cars that run on less gas- and drilling more oil- are an incremental improvement on our situation and push back the date that we run out of oil. Even if there is no possible way to avoid running out of oil, it still makes sense to make more hybrids. Likewise, even if there is no possible way to avoid BK and/or hyper-inflation, it still makes sense to raise taxes; our kids will be in a better position, same with their kids.
Me? I'm cautiously optimistic. I think we can pay down the debt and avoid "the inevitable" altogether. However, if we aren't even willing to consider working on an incremental improvement in our nation's balance sheet, we're in much deeper trouble than I thought. Even if you think we can't solve the problem without cutting spending, this move at least buys us time. It also helps show voters that all of this government spending has a cost that accrues to them.
quote:
Don't you realize that if the problem had been dealt with 20 years ago it would have been less painful? If we push it off another 20 years we simply magnify the impact the fix has.
The problem started 20 years ago when budget deficits ballooned after *SUPRISE* we cut taxes!
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 9/23/2008 5:20:23 PM >
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