RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Christian" first?
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 2:00:25 PM
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Psalms274
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
ekserekseez
I thought that the slip of the tongue was interesting too. But to be honest, I've made similar, and as embarrassing, slips myself, so I wouldn't read too much into that in itself.
We've all said things we shouldn't have. But to be talking about your faith and call yourself a Muslim and then have to be reminded your Christian seems to be more than a mere slip of the tongue.
I am in no way an Obama supporter ... but I can see how he could have this slip of the tongue. Mr. Stephanopoulos said the word Muslim right before Mr. Obama's slip of tongue. I do that kind of thing all the time ... and it has nothing to do with my belief system.
As I stated before in reference to the op ... I do not think any sane persons will be crying "anti-Christ" ... if it does happen it willl be a very minuscule minority.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 2:53:43 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
As a conservative libertarian, I see a theme starting to develop here. If Obama/Biden lose, their followers will automatically cry "racism." Well, if McCain/Palin lose, will their followers automatically blame it on "anti-Christian" bias?
This is a question that has intrigued me for a while. Personally, I would never EVER take someone's religious beliefs, race, gender, or anything else into consideration when voting for them (or not). The ONLY thing I consider is whether they will let me keep more of my money. That's what this country was founded on, even though the socialists will come up with a zillion reasons of "social engineering" since they don't read the Constitution.
Greetings
quote:
As a conservative libertarian,
Yes it shows!
quote:
I see a theme starting to develop here.
That’s the problem with libertarianism... what they see is not always the truth or they see things that are not there, and to conserve that... is a very big issue among them….
As mentioned here below.
quote:
If Obama/Biden lose, their followers will automatically cry "racism." Well, if McCain/Palin lose, will their followers automatically blame it on "anti-Christian" bias?
For us who are Christian already expect "anti-Christian" bias and...If McCain/Palin lose.... it will be the beginning or the pre curser of a prophetic cycle called the tribulation, (setting the stage’s…so to speak!) in which there will be much rejoicing, 
But the tribulation is not poised on what happens in America, it is poised on what happens in the Vatican with current Pope and the instatement of the next, … (Whereby the source of all anti-Christian bias is centrally formed, (in the O that it is for their own good...of course!) ….So as to draw us back to our mother!)…. 
quote:
This is a question that has intrigued me for a while. Personally, I would never EVER take someone's religious beliefs, race, gender, or anything else into consideration when voting for them (or not).
At least they haven’t banned those aspects YET; so there is still time to check out those issues,.... but be careful .....because they already found a loophole that was setup before hand
http://www.onenewsnow.com/vidPlayer.aspx?videoId=6501
….but what are you saying?....you mean you personally would not care and vote for an atheist who is a transsexual who can’t determine if they are black or white?
Has that made it into the dictionary yet? …Replacing the definition of a True American? 
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The ONLY thing I consider is whether they will let me keep more of my money.
I too find it amazing what some will consider just for a promise of a couple hundred extra bucks at the end of the year. 
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That's what this country was founded on
Not exactly, that’s what they have corrupted it into…mainly for the purpose so that seed can be taught in the schools to our young
…but this nation was founded on Biblical principals found in the OT, and the likes of such are written on just about every stone monument and building in Washington DC; as built by the early fathers.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 8:56:08 PM
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Stimpy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
That is a very illogical comparison to equate calling someone the anti-Christ based on who they are vs. calling a group of people racist base on how they vote. When someone cries "racism" they are accusing the voters of a mindset that puts down a class of people based their race. To cry anti-Christ you are accusing a single person of being satan's pawn to promote his agenda.
It's not even an apples to oranges comparison ... at least apples and oranges are both a fruit. This is more like comparing and egg to a wooden fence. The two subjects are that different.
I think if anyone cries "anti-Christ" it will be a minuscule minority that is somewhat out of touch with reality. It may happen that a handful do this and the media picks up on it because it fits their own agenda ... but it will be short lived because in the end ... there's no story here. 
I don't believe they meant labeling him *THE* "Anti-Christ" [sic] but rather possessing a spirit (or attitude) of "anti-Christ". It's not hard to see that going on today.
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 9:42:39 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
I am in no way an Obama supporter ... but I can see how he could have this slip of the tongue. Mr. Stephanopoulos said the word Muslim right before Mr. Obama's slip of tongue. I do that kind of thing all the time ... and it has nothing to do with my belief system.
I understand what you are getting at. Yet, that statement in conjunction with his quick severance of ties to Jeremiah Wright and his comments about folks clinging to guns and religion leave me feeling that he is definetly not a Christian. He also holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 9:47:48 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching.
This is the chief reason I wonder about where he's really coming from. I'm certainly not saying he isn't a Christian. I don't know. But for the sake of discussion, let's say he is a Christian. If he is, then that means he is holding views that kowtow too much to the world and that is a sign of weakness.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 9:53:17 PM
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Psalms274
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I am in no way an Obama supporter ... but I can see how he could have this slip of the tongue. Mr. Stephanopoulos said the word Muslim right before Mr. Obama's slip of tongue. I do that kind of thing all the time ... and it has nothing to do with my belief system.
I understand what you are getting at. Yet, that statement in conjunction with his quick severance of ties to Jeremiah Wright and his comments about folks clinging to guns and religion leave me feeling that he is definetly not a Christian. He also holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching.
Could very well be true as it is for many who believe they are Christians ... one of the scariest passages in the bible is Matthew 7:21 ff Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
I cannot see into his heart ... but I do see the inconsistencies that may hold true for many who believe they are Christians yet do not have a genuine relationship with Christ. It could be he is a Christian but has been so unindated with the world that He has learned to ignore God's prompting ... I suppose we will never know this side of heaven.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 10:26:14 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
I cannot see into his heart ...
Seems to me most of us can see into the hearts of others more than we realize. Too often, we want to think we're wrong, so we dismiss what we see trying to convince ourselves not to be judgmental.
I see his heart in his character. "Where your treasures are, your heart will be also." I don't see a Christian in the man. While he may say things that communicate Christian ideals, wanting to care for the poor, the sick, the downtrodden, I see him presenting big government as the solution. How he is going to run big government and we can all sit back and relax while he watches out for us. Seems to me that Christ wanted each of us to change, to pick up our mats and walk. Not to wait on the government to carry our mat and provide a chariot to take us along the way.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 11:09:33 PM
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tracydolls
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No one can see into any's heart.
The Light of Christ is easy to see in a person.
I don't see any exhibited by conservatives that neglect the poor.
The Republican Party platform does not match up. Neither does the Dems.
I just don't think anyone can cry anti Christian about people who might be Christians.
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 11:15:29 PM
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bzirk
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There is no need to see into another's heart who claims the Lord. We have their fruit on which to determine if they are someone who should be trusted or not.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 11:30:07 PM
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Psalms274
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quote:
We have their fruit on which to determine if they are someone who should be trusted or not.
This is very true ... we can look at the fruit to determine whether someone is leading us the way God would have them lead. If the fruit is not there it could be because of not having a relationship ... or it could be that they are not in the same placed in their walk as you ... or ... they are currently not walking with God, but are His and it will be a matter of when God chastises their behavior. Bottom line (I'll say it again) we look at the fruit to see if it is where God would lead.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/22/2008 11:35:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raivyne
Are you implying that Obama is not a Christian?
Interesting.
How can he be?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 11:32:30 AM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
quote:
We have their fruit on which to determine if they are someone who should be trusted or not.
This is very true ... we can look at the fruit to determine whether someone is leading us the way God would have them lead. If the fruit is not there it could be because of not having a relationship ... or it could be that they are not in the same placed in their walk as you ... or ... they are currently not walking with God, but are His and it will be a matter of when God chastises their behavior. Bottom line (I'll say it again) we look at the fruit to see if it is where God would lead.
Greetings,
quote:
If the fruit is not there it could be because of not having a relationship ... or it could be that they are not in the same placed in their walk as you ... or ... they are currently not walking with God,
May I add....
in 2 Thess 2 Paul describes the mindset of those who get caught up in the prophecy written in Daniel concerning the increase of knowledge, whereby the situation escalates to the point that God will allow them to believe whatever lie is presented before them as truth.
So their fruits will be reflecting truth, but in their own worldview and this separation of views are as Jesus alluded to in principal in John 8:23 - Show Context
…..And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
SO here we can't deny the truth that Jesus is also explicitly stating that whomsoever He was speaking to was of the world.
Now Peter explains it this way, and it is good to start at verse 11
... But I will move to the key found here in 2Pe 3:16 where Peter is speaking of Paul...
Saying…..
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters =.(in v11-v15!)
….His letters contain some things that are hard to understand,
.........which ignorant .."and".. unstable people distort , as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
…Now here is the key as to what to expect from a Christian who holds a worldview; and this is written in verse 16; in one word called..unstable ... and the fruit of being unstable is called double-minded.
And as written above.... the unstable, like the ignorant, are therefore seduced by the wickedness of the world...that is an absolute; and the only other absolute is that it is not the other way around... no matter what they call themselves!!!
Now to be fair for all the politically correct and to properly gain a prospective on either candidate we need to join and define unstable with the absolute principal in Jesus statement above to see which view Jesus holds, saying; "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. and that seems to be pretty easy to define which view Jesus holds.
Now by this statement found here below Jesus is also defining who He will work with; and if He is working with them; then so is Father God.
And again we see an absolute in principal in verse 15 of Rev 3
Saying....I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could “wish you were” cold or hot .
16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
In truth that expression is in principal is very synonymous with a double-minded person in the body of Christ which the context of Rev 3:15 reveals….. and yet In principal in line with God who establishes government... it is clear cut that Jesus (God) will work with either candidate who is either hot of cold,
And He most definitely brings to destruction all the works (fruit) of a double-minded candidate.
(Which basically means it will be exposed…Mt 3:10 )
(And that is basically what I have been praying for, according to His will, this pre election)
Get ready, it’s about to get really heated! 
But….In that respect based on the Biblical scriptures my personal choice is neither candidate; but based in principal; at least John McCain stated truthfully that he was cold, therefore according to the Biblical principal; the Lord will work with that, because He wished it..
Loyal Gypsy
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 9/23/2008 4:00:57 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 3:20:55 PM
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jadab
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
The Mccain/Palin ticket is not claiming christianity,
so how can anyone be fooled into thinking they are.
Has anyone seen any Christ-like behavior from either?
Are they evening mentioning Christ on the trail?
I know Bo is black, I'm not sure Mccain or Palin is a Christian.
So I better stick with what I know.
John McCain has adopted three or four children. The youngest was a sick baby. She's darker than BO. The McCain's knew another couple who wanted to adopt a baby, but the child had severe medical problems so they couldn't. The McCains paid the bills and the baby got a family.
80-90% of children with Down's syndrome are hunted down and executed before birth. Not Sarah Palin's child. I think that's one of the reasons liberals hate her.
Sarah Palin's daughter is pregnant. She's welcoming her premature grandchild with love and affection. BO, on the other hand, has mused openly about killing his own preborn grandchild because they're a "problem," not a human being made in God's image.
BO is a millionaire. The school his children go to costs more than $11,000 for pre-school, but his brother lives in a shack. He's got a history of very small charitable giving. The same is true for Joe Biden. They both want it legal to stab a baby in the skull and suck her brains out.
Right... but any time someone mentions Barack Obama's years of service to the community, it is somehow laughed off? Why is that? If we're going to fault him because his children go to private school, why not hold Mr. McCain to the same standard, especially since he owns seven homes and 12 cars. What is a preborn grandchild? And please point me to the source that directly quotes him "musing openly about killing his own preborn grandchild."
As an aside, why is it that there is so much emphasis on saving unborn children but general disdain for saving those born into poor communities?
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 3:25:27 PM
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jadab
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I am in no way an Obama supporter ... but I can see how he could have this slip of the tongue. Mr. Stephanopoulos said the word Muslim right before Mr. Obama's slip of tongue. I do that kind of thing all the time ... and it has nothing to do with my belief system.
I understand what you are getting at. Yet, that statement in conjunction with his quick severance of ties to Jeremiah Wright and his comments about folks clinging to guns and religion leave me feeling that he is definetly not a Christian. He also holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching.
He holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching? Please give me three clear cut views that he holds that are out of line with our faith. Feel free to question my Christianity in the process if you with.
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 3:35:18 PM
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LabGuy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
And please point me to the source that directly quotes him "musing openly about killing his own preborn grandchild."
He's probably referring to this statement. It's at 44 seconds into the video. Senator Obama says regarding his daughters:
"But, if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."
quote:
As an aside, why is it that there is so much emphasis on saving unborn children but general disdain for saving those born into poor communities?
Many believe it is not the government's job to help the poor. It is OUR job. And we put our money and/or time where our mouth is to do that.
-Robb
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 3:42:34 PM
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jadab
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
And please point me to the source that directly quotes him "musing openly about killing his own preborn grandchild."
He's probably referring to this statement. It's at 44 seconds into the video. Senator Obama says regarding his daughters:
"But, if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."
quote:
As an aside, why is it that there is so much emphasis on saving unborn children but general disdain for saving those born into poor communities?
Many believe it is not the government's job to help the poor. It is OUR job. And we put our money and/or time where our mouth is to do that.
-Robb
So we should assume he's talking about abortion and not birth control? We naturally assume that the 'mistake' is pregnancy vs. the 'mistake' of pre-marital/unprotected sex?
So those who think it isn't government's job to help the poor, they're not the "bring us your poor, tired, huddled masses" type then, huh? Government should mandate how and when children are born, but it shouldn't see that those children are taken care of? And the job is left to 'US', some of whom don't give inside church, much less to the actual poor.
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 3:43:55 PM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
And please point me to the source that directly quotes him "musing openly about killing his own preborn grandchild."
He's probably referring to this statement. It's at 44 seconds into the video. Senator Obama says regarding his daughters:
"But, if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."
quote:
As an aside, why is it that there is so much emphasis on saving unborn children but general disdain for saving those born into poor communities?
Many believe it is not the government's job to help the poor. It is OUR job. And we put our money and/or time where our mouth is to do that.
-Robb
The very fact that there are poor communities proves that depending on people to do the job does not work either. We're the richest county ever in the history of mankind. WHY is their ONE poor soul on this land? Why are their homeless shelters and soup kitchens? Those who put their money where their mouth is are too few and far between. So, I ask you, is what we have now working? We are a nation of greed. Let's face it. The haves want more while the have-nots loose what little they have.
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 3:46:03 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
No one can see into any's heart.
The Light of Christ is easy to see in a person.
I don't see any exhibited by conservatives that neglect the poor.
The Republican Party platform does not match up. Neither does the Dems.
I just don't think anyone can cry anti Christian about people who might be Christians.
No one can see into the heart of another? Or, are we afraid to call what we see because caling might mean having to examine the log in our own eye? All of us let our hearts be seen through our actions everyday. Too often, in order to protect self, we don't dare call others on what we see.
As for caring for the poor. Why is it that we tend to think of caring for the poor in terms of providing programs to provide handouts? We, the church, have abdicated our role in this to the government and the government has done a lousy job. These programs have created dependence and killed initiative.
Conservatives care for the poor, but we'd rather give a hand up instead of a handout. Caring for the poor needs to be done in a discipling relationship, one on one. Teaching someone about the love of Christ and, at the same time, helping them gain life skills to get and stay out of poverty.
If we keep trying to solve social problems by doing the same thing with the expection of different results, why do we keep calling everyone else crazy?
< Message edited by zamdad -- 9/23/2008 3:54:08 PM >
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 3:51:08 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I am in no way an Obama supporter ... but I can see how he could have this slip of the tongue. Mr. Stephanopoulos said the word Muslim right before Mr. Obama's slip of tongue. I do that kind of thing all the time ... and it has nothing to do with my belief system.
I understand what you are getting at. Yet, that statement in conjunction with his quick severance of ties to Jeremiah Wright and his comments about folks clinging to guns and religion leave me feeling that he is definetly not a Christian. He also holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching.
He holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching? Please give me three clear cut views that he holds that are out of line with our faith. Feel free to question my Christianity in the process if you with.
quote:
He holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching? Please give me three clear cut views that he holds that are out of line with our faith. Feel free to question my Christianity in the process if you with.
1. Abortion
2. Homosexuality
3. Referring to himself as Muslim
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 3:58:29 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1428
Joined: 7/31/2007
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quote:
The very fact that there are poor communities proves that depending on people to do the job does not work either. We're the richest county ever in the history of mankind. WHY is their ONE poor soul on this land? Why are their homeless shelters and soup kitchens? Those who put their money where their mouth is are too few and far between. So, I ask you, is what we have now working? We are a nation of greed. Let's face it. The haves want more while the have-nots loose what little they have.
Well, because to put it bluntly, "poor" is a relative term. Those living on welfare in this country live in luxury compared to most of those living in third-world countries. Even our poorest have clean water and indoor plumbing, for the most part.
There are homeless shelters and soup kitchens PRECISELY BECAUSE people put their money where their mouths are and try to help out. There's a lot to being homeless, much of which involves mental illness, addictions, and other issues that make it not as simple as "put them in a house". (I've done volunteer work for homeless shelters, so, I've seen it first hand.)
But, if you look at the Bible, there are certain expectations on people. We are expected to try to make sure the basic needs of the poor are taken care of, but there is also the expectation that those who are able should either work or not eat. We are expected to help the destitute, but we are not expected to be all financially precisely equal. So, we're doing a pretty good job with Biblical expectations... making sure that people are fed, that they have a place to go, if they choose to take advantage of those offerings.
Jesus told us point blank that "the poor will always be with you"... because it's a matter of what Joe has versus what Bob has. If Bob has less than Joe, then Bob is poorer than Joe. The question is whether or not we are taking care of the basic needs of the poor... and it appears that the poor do have their basic needs of food and shelter, and even well beyond that, taken care of in this country.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 4:08:21 PM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
He holds too many views that conflict with Christian teaching? Please give me three clear cut views that he holds that are out of line with our faith. Feel free to question my Christianity in the process if you with.
1. Abortion
2. Homosexuality
3. Referring to himself as Muslim
The first one is accurate, even though the Ten Commandments have all equally been abandoned by many politicians, not just Obama.
He's not a proponent of gay marriage and he is not a homosexual. What is it that you'd like to see him do, and is it something that McCain has done?
The third one is a stretch and I'm sure you recognize that. If you don't feel you should give him the benefit of the doubt that has been repeatedly given to McCain and Palin (who misspeak everytime a mic is present) then so be it.
For the record - wait for it - I am pro-choice (I'm sure you'd say pro-abortion). I am not a homosexual but I don't find it necessary to persecute them. I'm not a Muslim, but if I had to keep refuting erroneous charges that I was, who knows what I might say?
Judge on....
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 4:13:21 PM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
quote:
The very fact that there are poor communities proves that depending on people to do the job does not work either. We're the richest county ever in the history of mankind. WHY is their ONE poor soul on this land? Why are their homeless shelters and soup kitchens? Those who put their money where their mouth is are too few and far between. So, I ask you, is what we have now working? We are a nation of greed. Let's face it. The haves want more while the have-nots loose what little they have.
Well, because to put it bluntly, "poor" is a relative term. Those living on welfare in this country live in luxury compared to most of those living in third-world countries. Even our poorest have clean water and indoor plumbing, for the most part.
There are homeless shelters and soup kitchens PRECISELY BECAUSE people put their money where their mouths are and try to help out. There's a lot to being homeless, much of which involves mental illness, addictions, and other issues that make it not as simple as "put them in a house". (I've done volunteer work for homeless shelters, so, I've seen it first hand.)
But, if you look at the Bible, there are certain expectations on people. We are expected to try to make sure the basic needs of the poor are taken care of, but there is also the expectation that those who are able should either work or not eat. We are expected to help the destitute, but we are not expected to be all financially precisely equal. So, we're doing a pretty good job with Biblical expectations... making sure that people are fed, that they have a place to go, if they choose to take advantage of those offerings.
Jesus told us point blank that "the poor will always be with you"... because it's a matter of what Joe has versus what Bob has. If Bob has less than Joe, then Bob is poorer than Joe. The question is whether or not we are taking care of the basic needs of the poor... and it appears that the poor do have their basic needs of food and shelter, and even well beyond that, taken care of in this country.
When there are more homeless than there are homeless shelters, the basic needs of the poor are not being met. Do you believe that every person on the street has made a decision to not live in a shelter? I have seen many turned away because all of the beds were taken. And to compare the U.S. to any third world country is apples and oranges. We are arguably the greatest nation in the world. We can and should do better, and if that means that I have to contribute, then so be it.
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 4:39:30 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
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quote:
When there are more homeless than there are homeless shelters, the basic needs of the poor are not being met. Do you believe that every person on the street has made a decision to not live in a shelter? I have seen many turned away because all of the beds were taken. And to compare the U.S. to any third world country is apples and oranges. We are arguably the greatest nation in the world. We can and should do better, and if that means that I have to contribute, then so be it.
I have worked as a social worker and have had the opportunity to serve in third world countries on mission trips. There is no comparison in terms of our poor (the homeless) and the poor in these countries. I have worked directly with the homeless in various ministries and as a social worker. Many are on disability due to mental illness, drugs, alcohol, and accident that left them disabled and have given up on themselves. I encountered very few who where families with nowhere to go because most in these situations are helped out on a one to one basis by family, friends or parishioners who open up a room temporarily until they get back on their feet. In my experience most are on the street because of choice. The government is not the answer ... the church is ...
The programs that are most efficient and reach the most are the non-profits ... which includes the churches. The government programs are overwhelmed with red tape and inefficiency that makes it nearly impossible to get help. More government is not the answer. Have you ever stood in line to get a new drivers license? That is the same kind of efficiency you will get with a government program.
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I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: If McCain/Palin lose, who will cry "anti-Chris... - 9/23/2008 4:49:18 PM
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adelphi_sky
Posts: 409
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: offline
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