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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/23/2008 2:33:23 AM
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Giulia
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From: Giulia
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quote:
And saints never die? Yes, they do . . . even the one that was beheaded according to the article you linked to in your OP.
No they never die, they just fall asleep. Our father is not the father of the dead He is Father of the living. the rest are in the clouds of witnesses.
You know some call me gulible but I believe in things other people don't believe in. That's ok. I am happy to be different. If that blood liquifying encourages the faith of one then that is a miracle. Some may even experience healing because they believe. Only the ones who believed were healed in Jesus days, same as today, only the ones that believe, as foolish as it may seem, will get the benefits.
It was reported that the heart of Joan of Arc was still intact as well. This is encouraging for me to hear and know about. Even this Saints blood is encouraging for me to hear about because God does not abandon His people, ever!
Because the power of God is in that life just as the power of God is in my body and hands. Not a natural ordinary thing but a supernatural extraordinary thing to be used for His Glory. I believe this blood is giving God glory. It think it is also encouraging idolatry in some but thats mankind for you. Always idolising someone or something. Perhaps encouraging is the wrong word. Enticing people to idolise but you know everything around us entices us to err in our ways. it is the way we perceive and what we do with that that matters.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 9/23/2008 2:43:22 AM >
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/23/2008 5:25:43 PM
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BillBaileyBFAFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: BillBaileyBFAFan
If you don't think that the Catholics have or do worship relics, watch the movie Luther. I know it's a movie, but it paints a pretty clear picture of how the Catholic Church behaved in his time.
Well, since I'm Catholic, how about I just look at my life and see how that goes? Sorry pal, but I know what I'm talking about here. Catholics do not worship statues or relics or other such garbage. Such things might be (and are) used as teaching tools or for symbolism during prayer, but they are NOT worshipped. A statue of Jesus Christ is just a stone visual reminder of whom our Savior is. Nobody is praying TO the statue.
Ok, ok. I'll take your word for it. I know a Catholic would never pray to Mary either, or buy and sell indulgences, or anything like that.
I happen to know several people who have came out of the Catholic church, so I do know something about it as well!!
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/23/2008 6:08:30 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
I happen to know several people who have came out of the Catholic church, so I do know something about it as well!!
Just check your sources.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/24/2008 7:48:00 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
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From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Giulia,
You are right to believe. Many do not and will not believe - that's up to them.
There have been many miracles and visions in modern times and as ever, there have been many who chose not to believe.
The question is what purpose does it serve and is it a miracle from God? Also believing it doesn't make it valid or prove anything.
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In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/24/2008 7:51:17 PM
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Giulia
Posts: 866
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From: Giulia
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For me it serves to encourage my faith. I choose to believe in miracles. If you told me it was false and done with chemicals I would still believe that God is able and alive to do stuff like that.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/24/2008 10:53:12 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2385
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
For me it serves to encourage my faith. I choose to believe in miracles. If you told me it was false and done with chemicals I would still believe that God is able and alive to do stuff like that.
I'm just asking because it is not how my brain works. . . how does a puddle of old blood encourage your faith?
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/25/2008 12:22:26 AM
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Giulia
Posts: 866
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From: Giulia
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quote:
I'm just asking because it is not how my brain works. . . how does a puddle of old blood encourage your faith?
It is not a puddle of old blood. It is blood of a saint, a brother in truth. That blood is eternal and alive. Not sure if you understand the concept that God is God of the Living and not the dead. That in itself says it all but many don't understand it! That blood is alive.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/25/2008 12:25:29 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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Guilia - saints are human beings. Human beings die. People who believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior will live forever in Eternity; but they do not live forever here on earth. Their earthly bodies die; and when that happens, there no longer is any more life in someone's blood.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/25/2008 1:05:55 AM
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1love1God1way
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I guess I view it as WhiteRose does. . .
It's just blood. It is not alive. The saint is, sure. But that blood. . .it's the old body that has passed away for eternity.
He will receive a new body. That's what will be eternal.
I mean, I appreciate the sentiment, I really do. I just don't personally find it relevant or edifying. No offense.
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love.ben
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/28/2008 4:22:07 AM
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Giulia
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From: Giulia
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I believe the blood stays alive forever as well. I believe that it is transformed, saints blood, that is. I also believe that saints are special people, not just anyone who confessed Jesus is Lord is a saint, even the demons believe and they tremble.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 9/28/2008 4:48:22 AM >
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/28/2008 8:34:47 AM
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mvic
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1love1God1way,
Please ... don't be so sure of your facts and beliefs. Never rely on what you think you know. Possibly, there may be a slight infinitesimal chance that you are wrong.
As I said in my earlier post; I've never heard of this incident of blood liquifying. It may be a genuine miracle or it may not be. But I have heard of other instances (see my posts) where "miracles" are said to have happened. It could be, that God allows such instances to happen to help some people believe. To strengthen their Faith as it were.
We really don't know His ways - although sometimes we may feel we really know it all.
Personally, I keep an open mind about such events.
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Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/28/2008 8:36:56 AM
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armydude
Posts: 16873
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
I believe the blood stays alive forever as well. I believe that it is transformed, saints blood, that is. I also believe that saints are special people, not just anyone who confessed Jesus is Lord is a saint, even the demons believe and they tremble.
Please back that up with scripture?
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You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/29/2008 8:01:01 AM
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Giulia
Posts: 866
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From: Giulia
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quote:
Please back that up with scripture?
hahahahahaha! Faith doesn't need scripture, it stands alone as it is what created scripture in the first place. Praise God He is not bound to scripture but is alive outside of scripture as well as in it! We complicate things so much and often in the zeal to remain in scripture people fall out of favour with God. Only faith pleases Him.
James 2:19 ".....even the demons believe and they tremble"
< Message edited by Giulia -- 9/29/2008 8:07:50 AM >
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/29/2008 9:11:00 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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James 2:19 is talking about the demons trembling because there is one God.
Demons do not tremble over dead people's blood; nor do they tremble over anyone who has been declared a saint.
Guilia, it is wonderful that you have faith! But that faith MUST be rooted in the Word of God; otherwise your faith could take you into some areas that are incorrect.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/29/2008 9:18:48 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
Guilia, it is wonderful that you have faith! But that faith MUST be rooted in the Word of God; otherwise your faith could take you into some areas that are incorrect.
I honestly don't believe that this point can be stressed enough. Scripture is a necessity for faith, as scripture is what our faith in the Lord is predominatly based on.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/29/2008 11:37:21 AM
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SuspenseWriter
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quote:
But that faith MUST be rooted in the Word of God; otherwise your faith could take you into some areas that are incorrect.
Quoted for truth. To see just how far afield of truth extra-Biblical thinking can take a man, read up on Charles Taze Russell. Or even more egregiously, Joseph Smith. Without the inviolate Word of God as our anchor, then anything goes...and often does.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/29/2008 11:56:45 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2385
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
I believe the blood stays alive forever as well.
based on what?
quote:
I believe that it is transformed, saints blood, that is.
into what?
quote:
I also believe that saints are special people,
according to whom?
quote:
not just anyone who confessed Jesus is Lord is a saint,
then what are they?
quote:
even the demons believe and they tremble.
they believe what?
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love.ben
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/29/2008 3:03:53 PM
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terryjohn
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I was reading the other day about true exorcisms in Ireland over the last 25 years (The dark sacrament by David M. Kelly and Christina McKenna, Harperone, 2007) and the one thing that struck me was the decietfulness of demons in leading men into thinking that anything other than Christ could save them from their attacks. In one case prayers to mary were recommended to hold off the attacks of a demon, and when the prayers were not said they were attacked again. It ocurred to me that that rather than confirming that such prayers are of value, they showed that demons were actually encouraging them to be said. Hence, my point is satan is not above using the seemingly miraculous to lead men from Christ. You have to ask yourself is satan not above performing miracles, and if he can will we worship him? We don't only worship Christ because He can perform miracles do we?
It was also very interesting to read that the name of Chirst was all sufficient in breaking the hold of the demonic even when unbelievers used it. So the use of crosses, oil, other holy objects, bibles, holy water and all the prayers were pointless and inaffective. You could almost see the demons willing people to use anything but the name of Christ in the exorcism for once the name of Christ was used they had to obey.
In the end, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. I would then shun all miracles for the supremacy of knowing Christ and His love.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/29/2008 3:07:01 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16873
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
quote:
Please back that up with scripture?
hahahahahaha! Faith doesn't need scripture, it stands alone as it is what created scripture in the first place. Praise God He is not bound to scripture but is alive outside of scripture as well as in it! We complicate things so much and often in the zeal to remain in scripture people fall out of favour with God. Only faith pleases Him.
James 2:19 ".....even the demons believe and they tremble"
If what you are saying is not backed up by God's word, then I have no choice but to declare that it is a lie. 100%.
Faith doesn't need scripture? Yes it does!
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.
Isn't that in scripture somewhere? I thought so.
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You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/30/2008 8:15:09 AM
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Giulia
Posts: 866
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Giulia
Status: online
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quote:
I was reading the other day about true exorcisms in Ireland over the last 25 years (The dark sacrament by David M. Kelly and Christina McKenna, Harperone, 2007) and the one thing that struck me was the decietfulness of demons in leading men into thinking that anything other than Christ could save them from their attacks. In one case prayers to mary were recommended to hold off the attacks of a demon, and when the prayers were not said they were attacked again. It ocurred to me that that rather than confirming that such prayers are of value, they showed that demons were actually encouraging them to be said. Hence, my point is satan is not above using the seemingly miraculous to lead men from Christ. You have to ask yourself is satan not above performing miracles, and if he can will we worship him? We don't only worship Christ because He can perform miracles do we?
It was also very interesting to read that the name of Chirst was all sufficient in breaking the hold of the demonic even when unbelievers used it. So the use of crosses, oil, other holy objects, bibles, holy water and all the prayers were pointless and inaffective. You could almost see the demons willing people to use anything but the name of Christ in the exorcism for once the name of Christ was used they had to obey.
In the end, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. I would then shun all miracles for the supremacy of knowing Christ and His love.
I never said to use anything instead of faith. I did say that hearing this encourages my faith.
quote:
If what you are saying is not backed up by God's word, then I have no choice but to declare that it is a lie. 100%.
Faith doesn't need scripture? Yes it does!
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.
Isn't that in scripture somewhere? I thought so.
My faith is automatically backed by the word of God. Never heard Jesus asking the woman with an issue about what she based her belief on. I also recall scripture in revelation saying something like: "not everyone who calls me Lord will enter into heaven"
Hearing the Word of God could also be hearing of someone's experience with Christ which is NOT in the bible. If someone's experiences produce faith in Christ of whom is spoken of in scripture then it is good.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/30/2008 8:31:03 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
Never heard Jesus asking the woman with an issue about what she based her belief on.
Isn't it rather obvious that the woman's faith was in Jesus and not some object?
God condemned the Jews for putting their faith in an object that He was not responsible for - the golden calf. That sort of condemnation was repeated several more times throughout scripture due to their failure to learn.
The object of one's faith truly matters.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/30/2008 8:43:37 AM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
Never heard Jesus asking the woman with an issue about what she based her belief on.
Isn't it rather obvious that the woman's faith was in Jesus and not some object?
God condemned the Jews for putting their faith in an object that He was not responsible for - the golden calf. That sort of condemnation was repeated several more times throughout scripture due to their failure to learn.
The object of one's faith truly matters.
Definitely. I could have faith that I can get up and walk through the wall that's next to me and since that faith is not based on scripture, all I'm going to get is a headache. But I've got faith, right? But faith alone is useless. Everyone has faith. God has given to every man a measure of faith. Faith in God and His Word is not useless. This is not because the faith is different, but the object of the faith is different.
I have absolutely zero faith in dried blood that liquefies twice a year. I have total faith in the One that defeated death once and for all.
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You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/30/2008 8:57:17 AM
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JimboFletch
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I am also reminded of the Mormon "miracle" when seagulls "miraculously" saved their 1848 crops by eating thousands of insects that were devouring their fields.
Because of the Mormon spin on that extra-biblical event, many are helped believe in their false religion.
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/30/2008 9:19:45 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
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Seems strange to me. Strange because this is something that happens a couple times a year? And of all the miracles God could be *clearly* performing... He turns some blood into liquid? I don't think so.
I'm not saying it isn't possible for God by any means... it just isn't like Him to do tricks for the crowd and put them on display just for the sake of performing miracles and a wow factor. Nobody is being healed... it isn't in response to anyone specifically going into the world spreading the Gospel (it happens twice a year at the same time)... and it is revealed by a church once it happens... and then placed on display...
Let me guess, there is a collection that goes out whenever it is on display? Sad.
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(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Saints blood liquifies in Naples - 9/30/2008 10:33:57 AM
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JazTek
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I lived in Naples off and on for about 9 years. There is a lot of Idoltry in their churches and praying to Saints. They even have parades where they have a statue of an Idol (some towns have their own particular "favorite" idol) and march it around the city. I was in the Navy Band over there and was privvy(?) to this event many times. We would play at town festivals all the time. I didn't think about it back then (BC days) but now, wow....How sad...I think the evil one is always trying to divert people's eyes, so this is no surprise. Come quickly Lord Jesus.
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