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Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 1:45:14 PM
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okrox
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I would like to toss a few items out for consideration. If we could come to an agreement on them, perhaps we could all see each other a little more graciously, and de-escalate some of the hostilities, both here and IRL, that this election seems to be inciting.
1. Politics is a lot about finding what you are looking for. His fans cry "racism", hers cry "Sexism", and so on and so forth. Can we agree that some pretty nasty stuff has been flung from both sides? And that we are only more sensitive to what sticks to "our" people while forgetting what sticks to "theirs"?
2. Can we agree that all our candidates are officially taking the high road? I think they are. I have heard some pretty classy and civil things said by all four on the top of the ticket.
3. Can we agree that, all the speculation about who's really behind this or that or the other will most likely and forever be, just speculation? Can we have faith that if either candidate officially promotes some of the sordid doings, it will out? (Remember Watergate? We eventualy found out.)
4. And here's a biggie for some of you...but could we at least entertain the possibility that someone who disagrees with us isn't disagreeing out of ignorance, hatred, greed, obstinance, hatred of God and Christianity and all that is evil...but maybe because they honestly feel their opinion of how to do things really might work out better? I'm not asking you to agree with their policies, for Pete's sake....just to admit that they might actually think they are doing something good and worthwhile?
I'm just asking to give you the benefit of the doubt to people's motives. Both the candidates and their supporters.
Let me put it more bluntly. I am pro-life. But I know some mighty fine and loving and generous people who are pro-choice. Maybe someday they'll change their minds, maybe someday they won't. But even though I think they may be wrong, I don't for a moment discount the sincerity with which they feel they are helping.
That's just one example.
So.
Can we agree to give people's characters the benefit of the doubt, and stick to debating the issues?
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 1:58:10 PM
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ayani
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I agree heartily with everything you've said.
If we don't do those things you are encouraging, we'll be much weaker as a nation and weaker as Christians.
A large part of what has enabled us to survive as a democracy is that we have, except for the civil war, valued what unites us as more important than what divides us. It is this value I feel threatened today by the anger and hate and division whipped up by those with selfish interests.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 2:36:59 PM
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Jhud
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I am more than ready for this election to be over as well, and I think the tone will change a bit after Friday's debate - but I also think the left has elevated character assasination to the highest levels ever, and I think there should be consequences for that.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 2:37:15 PM
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AdrianaS
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I sure do agree with you as to me is plain comomsense of approach.
But what I do realize for the last few years a bit and now being the 1st time I get to participate in any political forum plus inside a christian board is that here in the USA it is impossible to some agree to desagree because there is a "christian party" situation, there is the abortion issue as homosexual issue all brought up into politics, in this country.
To me it is the most strange thing for many reasons and do not think there are any other country in the globe, democrat and christian who do politics just like the USA...at least since the abortion legalization was brought as banners to political parties and etc How things were before the abortion issue in this country? I think it was business of politics and elections as usual as in most countries where people are free to vote and etc
The issue is soooo much about abortion that I am quoting your explanation view and position about the issue as the recognition that "there are good people and etc in the other side"...but this is not enough for those who see themselves as the christian pro-life party and etc and for this motive I do see as a great priority to take the abortion issue and deal with it as to make it it illegal etc or get to be vote in all states as people and not politicians get to choose if there are pro-choice of pro-life, than the issue will be at where it suppose to be to each individual not parties.
I come from illegal abortion nation (democratic, at some point with an "official christian church as the largest RC nation in the world" and official religion christian) where people involve in that goes to prison for that or community service. Christian and no christians have lots of choices among many kind of parties and candidates, goes in huge numbers to cast their votes, and that is it.
Thanks, again I do agree with you.
quote:
Let me put it more bluntly. I am pro-life. But I know some mighty fine and loving and generous people who are pro-choice. Maybe someday they'll change their minds, maybe someday they won't. But even though I think they may be wrong, I don't for a moment discount the sincerity with which they feel they are helping.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 3:47:45 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: okrox
Let me put it more bluntly. I am pro-life. But I know some mighty fine and loving and generous people who are pro-choice. Maybe someday they'll change their minds, maybe someday they won't. But even though I think they may be wrong, I don't for a moment discount the sincerity with which they feel they are helping.
That's just one example.
So.
Can we agree to give people's characters the benefit of the doubt, and stick to debating the issues?
Without going into great depth on all your points. People's characters ARE the issue. Those "fine and loving and generous people" you know you are pro-abortion are not very kind, loving or generous if you happen to be the baby getting dismembered in the one place where she should be safest (her mothers womb) . What does it say about someone's character when they support infanticide? To me it says they are unworthy to serve this country.
So no, we cannot agree. Some things are biblically wrong and no amount of clever phrasing ("pro-choice") will ever change that. As a Christian I must follow Christ. How can I vote for someone who stands against everything He stands for?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 4:27:37 PM
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Psalms274
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quote:
Those "fine and loving and generous people" you know you are pro-abortion are not very kind, loving or generous if you happen to be the baby getting dismembered in the one place where she should be safest (her mothers womb) . What does it say about someone's character when they support infanticide? To me it says they are unworthy to serve this country.
While I am completely convinced that I could never vote for someone who does not stand up for the right of the unborn, I would never go as far to stated that those who would vote for a pro-choice candidate are not loving or generous people. Look at the life of David ... he was a man after God's own heart and committed adultery and murder. And he did not repent right away ... seemed to be oblivious to the matter.
I use to wonder how a Christian could do this or that ... or believe this or that ... but the truth is, God in His sovereignty knows exactly the order of things He will convict us of various sins in His time. He may work on someone's potty mouth first and another's thinking pattern first. Until that time He convicts of a sin I will trust that He sees something good in that person and if they are worthy of His love, they are certainly worthy of mine. I know that He will convict when the time is right ... and in His way. I think the problem with this election forum is everyone is sure that God has already convicted everyone else here of the things He has revealed to each of us personally ... and that just isn't the case.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 4:40:02 PM
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womaninchrist
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The left elevated character assassination to its highest levels ever?!? Are you sure it was entirely - and only - the left? I know I've been receiving emails since the start of primary season from Republican (i.e. the "right") sources and friends with all sorts of smears about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama - esp. Mr. Obama. I've been told Mr. Obama is not a true citizen, he's not a "real" patriot, he's a Muslim (or otherwise not "really" Christian), that he's the Antichrist, he's a terrorist supporter, he's an actual terrorist, he's supported by terrorists and many other atrocities and absurdities - usually delivered to my inbox by Christian Republicans who "just know it's all true" and want everyone to know "in the best interests of the country".
Even just this weekend there were the comments of the Chair of the Bernalillo County Republicans...
I think the more fair statement would be BOTH sides have sunk to a new low this election with mud slinging character assassination.
< Message edited by womaninchrist -- 9/22/2008 4:54:33 PM >
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 6:20:50 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
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quote:
The left elevated character assassination to its highest levels ever?!? Are you sure it was entirely - and only - the left? I know I've been receiving emails since the start of primary season from Republican (i.e. the "right") sources and friends with all sorts of smears about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama - esp. Mr. Obama. I've been told Mr. Obama is not a true citizen, he's not a "real" patriot, he's a Muslim (or otherwise not "really" Christian), that he's the Antichrist, he's a terrorist supporter, he's an actual terrorist, he's supported by terrorists and many other atrocities and absurdities - usually delivered to my inbox by Christian Republicans who "just know it's all true" and want everyone to know "in the best interests of the country".
Even just this weekend there were the comments of the Chair of the Bernalillo County Republicans...
I think the more fair statement would be BOTH sides have sunk to a new low this election with mud slinging character assassination.
There are always whisper campaigns; but the attacks on Palin are well funded and operationally connected to the Democrats; they aren't misled folks forwarding rumors, but intentional smears organized by leftist operatives on Obama's behalf. I am sorry, but there is simply no comparison.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 6:49:37 PM
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womaninchrist
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So rumors, name calling, mudslinging, etc. are all OK as long as it can't be traced in any way that proves it started with any Party or Party-related source (like a PAC) with a formal endorsement from the originating source? That's an awfully slippery ethical slope.
What about some of McCain's own commercials? There was that one alleged satire calling Obama a Savior. And there's still the issue of the racist comments by the Head of the Bernalillo County Republicans.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 7:05:05 PM
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ayani
Posts: 194
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
The left elevated character assassination to its highest levels ever?!? Are you sure it was entirely - and only - the left? I know I've been receiving emails since the start of primary season from Republican (i.e. the "right") sources and friends with all sorts of smears about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama - esp. Mr. Obama. I've been told Mr. Obama is not a true citizen, he's not a "real" patriot, he's a Muslim (or otherwise not "really" Christian), that he's the Antichrist, he's a terrorist supporter, he's an actual terrorist, he's supported by terrorists and many other atrocities and absurdities - usually delivered to my inbox by Christian Republicans who "just know it's all true" and want everyone to know "in the best interests of the country".
Even just this weekend there were the comments of the Chair of the Bernalillo County Republicans...
I think the more fair statement would be BOTH sides have sunk to a new low this election with mud slinging character assassination.
There are always whisper campaigns; but the attacks on Palin are well funded and operationally connected to the Democrats; they aren't misled folks forwarding rumors, but intentional smears organized by leftist operatives on Obama's behalf. I am sorry, but there is simply no comparison.
Sorry, but I totally disagree. I'm afraid your reading of the situation is totally colored by your feelings. If there's any real evidence of this, no-one has presented it.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 7:24:50 PM
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AdrianaS
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By experience I do know that there are bad apples extremist, in the extreme left and right of politics. Both sides can steal, kill and destroy figuratively or for real. People can be evil carrying their own agendas but sure in their blindness they think doing good but do set up stage for confusion, planning plots, character assasinations etc etc.
For christians our fight is not against flesh and blood, there is a Enemy behind many actions carried on by humans as the Bible tells us so. Now the difference to me is when those who are doing "stuff" are carrying or not a Christian bagde, because Christians are suppose to know and do better.
Now if the world is suppose to see we belong to Christ (even during elections) by the love we have for one another and they are not seeing our preaching and words match our actions, they are right to think we may be just like any other around, no surprises.
Lord Jesus is not an acessory.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 7:46:43 PM
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okrox
Posts: 157
Joined: 4/28/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I am more than ready for this election to be over as well, and I think the tone will change a bit after Friday's debate - but I also think the left has elevated character assasination to the highest levels ever, and I think there should be consequences for that.
So I'm guessing, that's a no from you on points 1-4?
Jhud, you're just proving my point. There has been nastiness enough all around. You, and many others, are only righteously indignant enough to remember it when it comes from the left.
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 7:47:56 PM
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okrox
Posts: 157
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
Can we agree that we're going to all be happy when this is all over, people stop beating on our doors interrupting dinner, our trashes stop overflowing with campaign literature and mailings, and the commercials we're trying to avoid are just the ones involving feminine products?
LOL! Yes! PREACH IT!
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 7:49:17 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
quote:
Those "fine and loving and generous people" you know you are pro-abortion are not very kind, loving or generous if you happen to be the baby getting dismembered in the one place where she should be safest (her mothers womb) . What does it say about someone's character when they support infanticide? To me it says they are unworthy to serve this country.
I use to wonder how a Christian could do this or that ... or believe this or that ... but the truth is, God in His sovereignty knows exactly the order of things He will convict us of various sins in His time. He may work on someone's potty mouth first and another's thinking pattern first. Until that time He convicts of a sin I will trust that He sees something good in that person and if they are worthy of His love, they are certainly worthy of mine. I know that He will convict when the time is right ... and in His way. I think the problem with this election forum is everyone is sure that God has already convicted everyone else here of the things He has revealed to each of us personally ... and that just isn't the case.
I understand what you are saying, but "Thou shalt not murder (kill)" is pretty basic.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 7:54:21 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
You, and many others, are only righteously indignant enough to remember it when it comes from the left.
I seem to recall two recent McCain ads claiming that Obama wanted pre-schoolers to learn about sex before learning how to read, and that he'd publicly called Sarah Palin a pig.
This is what I find the most disappointing about McCain this year.
He used to make no secret of his distaste for ads like these, but this year has shelved his old convictions for the sake of lusting for power.
Finally, can anyone directly cite an ad from the Obama campaign that has slimed Palin? I mean, really drug her into the mud with baseless accusations.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 7:56:57 PM
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okrox
Posts: 157
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: okrox
Let me put it more bluntly. I am pro-life. But I know some mighty fine and loving and generous people who are pro-choice. Maybe someday they'll change their minds, maybe someday they won't. But even though I think they may be wrong, I don't for a moment discount the sincerity with which they feel they are helping.
That's just one example.
So.
Can we agree to give people's characters the benefit of the doubt, and stick to debating the issues?
Without going into great depth on all your points. People's characters ARE the issue. Those "fine and loving and generous people" you know you are pro-abortion are not very kind, loving or generous if you happen to be the baby getting dismembered in the one place where she should be safest (her mothers womb) . What does it say about someone's character when they support infanticide? To me it says they are unworthy to serve this country.
So no, we cannot agree. Some things are biblically wrong and no amount of clever phrasing ("pro-choice") will ever change that. As a Christian I must follow Christ. How can I vote for someone who stands against everything He stands for?
No, no, no, John...you're missing my point. I'm CERTAINLY not asking you to agree with OR vote for anyone you feel violates your beliefs. I'm not trying to whitewash sin. I'm just asking you to possibly see that the other side feels just as strongly as you do that they are doing good and that it's possible that they are not all Satan's Evil Minions. Please re-read Psalms274's post. She said it much better than I am saying it.
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:00:58 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Sorry, but I totally disagree. I'm afraid your reading of the situation is totally colored by your feelings. If there's any real evidence of this, no-one has presented it.
I would say that your blindness is a product of the feelings of the left for Barak Obama. We have a Democratic congressman calling Palin 'disabled'.
We have a leftist Obama supporting website spreading the rumor Palin secretly adopted her daughter's Down's syndrome son within a day of her nomination, and we have other Democratic news organizations like the Huffington post running with that story without verification.
We have the college age sons of Democratic legislators breaking into e-mail accounts and posting the on the web, and we have Democratically connected PR firm surreptitiously posting anti-Palin ads on youtube as 'home made' videos to avoid campaign laws.
There is nothing comparable to these specific activities on the right, and if there were I would be the first to speak out against it, as I have many times against the unfair attacks against Obama that have been posted here. Anyone who ignores this slime is culpable in its existence.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:01:36 PM
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okrox
Posts: 157
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
quote:
Those "fine and loving and generous people" you know you are pro-abortion are not very kind, loving or generous if you happen to be the baby getting dismembered in the one place where she should be safest (her mothers womb) . What does it say about someone's character when they support infanticide? To me it says they are unworthy to serve this country.
I use to wonder how a Christian could do this or that ... or believe this or that ... but the truth is, God in His sovereignty knows exactly the order of things He will convict us of various sins in His time. He may work on someone's potty mouth first and another's thinking pattern first. Until that time He convicts of a sin I will trust that He sees something good in that person and if they are worthy of His love, they are certainly worthy of mine. I know that He will convict when the time is right ... and in His way. I think the problem with this election forum is everyone is sure that God has already convicted everyone else here of the things He has revealed to each of us personally ... and that just isn't the case.
I understand what you are saying, but "Thou shalt not murder (kill)" is pretty basic.
And there you have it, John. While you and I and a lot of people here agree with you...pro-choice people simply do not see abortion as murder. It's as simple as that. And we can kick and scream and argue until we're blue in the face, but nothing but God is going to change that viewpoint.
In the meantime, the "If you're pro-choice you're anti-Christ" rhetoric that pervades this election is only making the divide deeper and wider, the fight dirtier, and Christians uglier and ungodlier.
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:03:34 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Finally, can anyone directly cite an ad from the Obama campaign that has slimed Palin? I mean, really drug her into the mud with baseless accusations.
Why would he need to directly doing anything when he has a cadre of supporters who are more than willing to do his dirty work for him? Whatever you think about McCain's ads, at least he owns up to his attacks, unlike the Obama underground.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:03:40 PM
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Stimpy
Posts: 78
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
The left elevated character assassination to its highest levels ever?!? Are you sure it was entirely - and only - the left?
Much of what has been levied against Obama is rooted in fact. If the media would do it's job and quit "coddling the guy, and Obama would be more upfront and honest, the right might not need to do so.
quote:
I know I've been receiving emails since the start of primary season from Republican (i.e. the "right") sources and friends with all sorts of smears about Hillary Clinton
Ambitious and shrewd and always the politician. She's a very crafty politician, but she's still a "politician".
quote:
and Barack Obama - esp. Mr. Obama.
Of course because he's the nominee and little else is known about him. The media is too biased to ask him any tough questions while they'll continuously ask Palin the same question over and over again hoping to get the "soundbite" they want.
quote:
I've been told Mr. Obama is not a true citizen,
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. But I don't think it's so much is he a "citizen", but rather, is he a NATURALLY BORN citizen? Arnold is a citizen, but since he wasn't born here, he can't be President.
quote:
he's not a "real" patriot,
He's not.
quote:
he's a Muslim
How does one make a "slip" in a television interview in which he says, "my MUSLIM faith"? Not only that, Stephanopolis was the one who had to correct him on it.
quote:
(or otherwise not "really" Christian),
I certainly have my doubts, and it's not because of the above "slip" either.
quote:
that he's the Antichrist,
Well the AC is certainly going to be arrogant and boastful (as Obama is). But I admit it's not right to declare he *IS* at this point.
quote:
he's a terrorist supporter,
In Obama's OWN WORDS he has a "friendly relationship" with an unrepentent terrorist - Bill Ayers.
quote:
he's an actual terrorist,
Haven't heard that one.
quote:
he's supported by terrorists
We'll let the university papers decide that, assuming any incriminating stuff hasn't already been destroyed.
quote:
and many other atrocities and absurdities - usually delivered to my inbox by Christian Republicans who "just know it's all true" and want everyone to know "in the best interests of the country".
Maybe if Obama didn't keep such questionable company (Ayers, Wright, Raines, Rezko, etc.) you wouldn't feel he's been so "picked on". The would be agent of "change" is proving to be not only more of the same, but maybe even worse.
They couldn't leave Palin's 17 year old daughter (a MINOR) alone even though they had a "hands off" approach with Chelsea (and rightfully so there).
quote:
I think the more fair statement would be BOTH sides have sunk to a new low this election with mud slinging character assassination.
Fact is, McCain needs to go on offense and raise alot of money to do so because the media is so in the tank for Obama that he's essentially receiving free advertising from them 24/7.
Everybody wanted to disregard all the accusations against Clinton in '92 (myself included to some degree). But what we should have learned from that given the whole "Lewinsky" thing is that "character matters" and if he was guilty with her, despite and ANGRY denial of it on tv, odds are pretty good the other accusations were right as well. People need to know who they're getting in Obama and if the media won't do it, then McCain needs to!
< Message edited by Stimpy -- 9/22/2008 8:27:58 PM >
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:03:55 PM
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okrox
Posts: 157
Joined: 4/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
You, and many others, are only righteously indignant enough to remember it when it comes from the left.
I seem to recall two recent McCain ads claiming that Obama wanted pre-schoolers to learn about sex before learning how to read, and that he'd publicly called Sarah Palin a pig.
This is what I find the most disappointing about McCain this year.
He used to make no secret of his distaste for ads like these, but this year has shelved his old convictions for the sake of lusting for power.
Finally, can anyone directly cite an ad from the Obama campaign that has slimed Palin? I mean, really drug her into the mud with baseless accusations.
Exactly.
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:05:47 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
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quote:
2. Can we agree that all our candidates are officially taking the high road? I think they are. I have heard some pretty classy and civil things said by all four on the top of the ticket.
I'm sorry but this can't be farther from the truth. Neither candidate can control what wacko bloggers print, or far left or right media claim and I don't hold them responsible for that.
However when a candidate puts his name on an attack ad that basically calls the other candidate a racist as Obama has done with his latest Spanish ads, then I have a major problem.
When Obama sends out members of his campaign to the news media and try to put this whole Wall Stree fiasco on the shoulders of McCain, I have a problem with that.
Twice today I saw on Fox News two separate representatives of Obama's campaign state explicitly that McCain was responsible because of the Keating Five scandal involving the Savings and Loan crisis.
What they happened to conveniently leave out is that McCain was cleared of any and all allegations that he was involved by the Senate Ethics Committee. When they were reminded of this they just began to shout over the anchor to try and drown her out so her point couldn't be heard.
These types of tactics are inexcusable.
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Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:07:13 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
So I'm guessing, that's a no from you on points 1-4?
Jhud, you're just proving my point. There has been nastiness enough all around. You, and many others, are only righteously indignant enough to remember it when it comes from the left.
Actually, I have agreed with many Obama supporters when an attack against him was unfair; but the current crop of attacks from the left are worse than in any election cycle in my thirty plus years of taking note, or any previous to that that I am aware of.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:08:40 PM
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okrox
Posts: 157
Joined: 4/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
quote:
Those "fine and loving and generous people" you know you are pro-abortion are not very kind, loving or generous if you happen to be the baby getting dismembered in the one place where she should be safest (her mothers womb) . What does it say about someone's character when they support infanticide? To me it says they are unworthy to serve this country.
While I am completely convinced that I could never vote for someone who does not stand up for the right of the unborn, I would never go as far to stated that those who would vote for a pro-choice candidate are not loving or generous people. Look at the life of David ... he was a man after God's own heart and committed adultery and murder. And he did not repent right away ... seemed to be oblivious to the matter.
I use to wonder how a Christian could do this or that ... or believe this or that ... but the truth is, God in His sovereignty knows exactly the order of things He will convict us of various sins in His time. He may work on someone's potty mouth first and another's thinking pattern first. Until that time He convicts of a sin I will trust that He sees something good in that person and if they are worthy of His love, they are certainly worthy of mine. I know that He will convict when the time is right ... and in His way. I think the problem with this election forum is everyone is sure that God has already convicted everyone else here of the things He has revealed to each of us personally ... and that just isn't the case.
"Yes, YES YES!" she says, pounding her fists on her computer desk. Thank you, Psalms. That's way better put than I was fumbling to say.
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Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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