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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:10:35 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
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quote:
I seem to recall two recent McCain ads claiming that Obama wanted pre-schoolers to learn about sex before learning how to read, and that he'd publicly called Sarah Palin a pig.
This is what I find the most disappointing about McCain this year.
This has been discussed at lengths in other thread so I'll just summarize the point here. The bill the Obama co-sponsored DID contain language that ALL sex education for grades K - 12 shall include discussions regarding the prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.
Now please tell me what is the age appropriate way to tell a kindergartner how to keep from spreading a sexually transmitted disease?
McCain's ad was spot on with this issue.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:20:36 PM
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Stimpy
Posts: 78
Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
What about some of McCain's own commercials? There was that one alleged satire calling Obama a Savior. And there's still the issue of the racist comments by the Head of the Bernalillo County Republicans.
Because here was this "articulate and clean" Black man according to Biden (as if that should be viewed as out of the ordinary when I know MANY intelligent Blacks) who can deliver a good speech providing he has a teleprompter in front of him offering NOTHING more than a repetitious montra of "hope" and "change" without giving ANY details, and people inexplicably went "ga-ga" over it!
"We will look back at this day as the day we began to heal the planet" - Obama (paraphrased)
"God has blessed us with Barack Obama" - Nancy Pelosi
"This hurricane ['Gustav'] proves that God is on our side" (forgot which Democrat said that while on a private jet) Also, the liberal hero Michael Moore was heard rejoicing over the timing of the hurricane as well. Neither of these two seemed too concerned about those in it's path because the political opportunity it presented was more important than the lives of those who would be impacted by it.
Yeah, I'd say he's been treated as a bit of a "messiah" or at the very least, some sort of "rock star". So McCain pointed out how "silly" it all was.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 8:59:01 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
Now please tell me what is the age appropriate way to tell a kindergartner how to keep from spreading a sexually transmitted disease?
McCain's ad was spot on with this issue.
Hardly....
a) It failed to note that the bill (SB99) in question never made it out of the IL Senate, and;
b) It failed to note that parents had the option to exclude their children from taking part in any sex education school curriculum, and;
c) It failed to note that the legislation posed abstinence policy (which is a failure anyhow) to older students.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=09300SB0099lv&SessionID=3&GA=93&DocTypeID=SB&DocNum=0099&print=true
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/22/2008 10:06:48 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
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quote:
a) It failed to note that the bill (SB99) in question never made it out of the IL Senate, and;
Irrelevant; Obama still co-sponsored the bill meaning he agreed with what was in it.
quote:
b) It failed to note that parents had the option to exclude their children from taking part in any sex education school curriculum,
Again irrelevant; regardless of whether parents could op out, Obama still supports the idea of teaching kids in kindergarten sex ed that includes discussions on prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. The issue isn't about what the parent wants or doesn't want, the issue is about what Obama is in support of. Which is what McCain's ad was about.
Oh and FYI; parents are rarely informed of the content of these classes until after they have started teaching them, or until their children come home and start asking question about what they just learned in school.
quote:
c) It failed to note that the legislation posed abstinence policy (which is a failure anyhow) to older students.
And again, irrelevant. Again, the point is that a bill that Obama co-sponsored supports teaching sex education to children in kindergarten. No matter how you spin this you cannot get around the fact the bill requires that children in kindergarten be taught about sexually transmitted diseases.
It didn't pass but not because of Obama. Parents can opt out but that doesn't change the view that Obama has. Including the abstinence policy doesn't erase the policy of teaching children about sex.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 12:22:20 PM
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okrox
Posts: 157
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So that would be a "no", then, I take it.
We can't even agree that both candidates are well-intentioned? The official position here is, "Mine is right, and the other is pure evil. The End."
How very strange.
What I find even stranger is that there is a great deal of hooplah from all the political commentators about how each side needs desperately to capture the undecided vote. I find this strange because apparently they are talking about me, and me only. I have yet to find another person IRL or online, who hasn't married a candidate yet. I am apparently the only person in the US who has yet to decide.
And since my state is about 68% McCain right now, it won't matter how I vote. Why don't they all just save their money and take a nice long cruise until November. Everyone has already decided and the vote is merely a formality now.
Carry on.
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 3:01:12 PM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: okrox
So that would be a "no", then, I take it.
We can't even agree that both candidates are well-intentioned? The official position here is, "Mine is right, and the other is pure evil. The End."
How very strange.
What I find even stranger is that there is a great deal of hooplah from all the political commentators about how each side needs desperately to capture the undecided vote. I find this strange because apparently they are talking about me, and me only. I have yet to find another person IRL or online, who hasn't married a candidate yet. I am apparently the only person in the US who has yet to decide.
And since my state is about 68% McCain right now, it won't matter how I vote. Why don't they all just save their money and take a nice long cruise until November. Everyone has already decided and the vote is merely a formality now.
Carry on.
It really does seem that way. I don't know any undecided voters. I hope the debates can serve that block of voters, though. It should be fun to watch!
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 3:21:42 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
We can't even agree that both candidates are well-intentioned? The official position here is, "Mine is right, and the other is pure evil. The End."
Actually, you might find this extreme, but I think what you are proposing is actually contrary to essential American political philosophy.
At the core of our system of government is the assumption that all candidates (or, more properly, the factions they represent) are self-interested; and that is why it is actually dangerous to assume good intention on their part - because a self-interested entity given sufficient power will inevitably use that power to advance it's own interests.
So the question we need to ask is, which candidate shares my interests? And which candidate is proffering a political position that is least likely to advance the power of the government over the lives of the governed?
Answering these questions are what leads me to not support the Obama presidential bid.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 3:36:09 PM
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jadab
Posts: 99
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
We can't even agree that both candidates are well-intentioned? The official position here is, "Mine is right, and the other is pure evil. The End."
Actually, you might find this extreme, but I think what you are proposing is actually contrary to essential American political philosophy.
At the core of our system of government is the assumption that all candidates (or, more properly, the factions they represent) are self-interested; and that is why it is actually dangerous to assume good intention on their part - because a self-interested entity given sufficient power will inevitably use that power to advance it's own interests.
So the question we need to ask is, which candidate shares my interests? And which candidate is proffering a political position that is least likely to advance the power of the government over the lives of the governed?
Answering these questions are what leads me to not support the Obama presidential bid.
Logical thinking is allowed, even in the political arena. I do not view McCain as 'pure evil'. His health care plan is one of the main things that prevents me from voting for him. Also, as an adamant servant to the community - not just through church, but in the Boys & Girls Clubs and community organizations - Obama's character resonates with me. Sometimes it is hard to give of yourself, especially after you've worked your 'real' job and you have a family to take care of, but providing public service is so rewarding and so essential that I can truly relate to him. And his healthcare plan isn't half bad, either. I have two asthmatic children and a blind, elderly dad so issues about how my family will receive care and how much it will cost is very, very important to me.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 3:54:23 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Logical thinking is allowed, even in the political arena. I do not view McCain as 'pure evil'. His health care plan is one of the main things that prevents me from voting for him. Also, as an adamant servant to the community - not just through church, but in the Boys & Girls Clubs and community organizations - Obama's character resonates with me. Sometimes it is hard to give of yourself, especially after you've worked your 'real' job and you have a family to take care of, but providing public service is so rewarding and so essential that I can truly relate to him. And his healthcare plan isn't half bad, either. I have two asthmatic children and a blind, elderly dad so issues about how my family will receive care and how much it will cost is very, very important to me.
I think Obama's sense of service is laudatory; I think the fact that he wants to translate that sense of service into large bureaucratic taxpayer funded government programs which inject an already large and intrusive government into even more areas of our lives is the worst possible direction we could go.
Such things are not 'public service' in the same way a privately funded and run organization like Boys and Girls Clubs are.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 4:15:10 PM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Logical thinking is allowed, even in the political arena. I do not view McCain as 'pure evil'. His health care plan is one of the main things that prevents me from voting for him. Also, as an adamant servant to the community - not just through church, but in the Boys & Girls Clubs and community organizations - Obama's character resonates with me. Sometimes it is hard to give of yourself, especially after you've worked your 'real' job and you have a family to take care of, but providing public service is so rewarding and so essential that I can truly relate to him. And his healthcare plan isn't half bad, either. I have two asthmatic children and a blind, elderly dad so issues about how my family will receive care and how much it will cost is very, very important to me.
I think Obama's sense of service is laudatory; I think the fact that he wants to translate that sense of service into large bureaucratic taxpayer funded government programs which inject an already large and intrusive government into even more areas of our lives is the worst possible direction we could go.
Such things are not 'public service' in the same way a privately funded and run organization like Boys and Girls Clubs are.
Specifically, what large, taxpayer-funded government programs do you think Obama is proposing? Healthcare?
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 5:02:34 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Specifically, what large, taxpayer-funded government programs do you think Obama is proposing? Healthcare?
Well to date, he has made plans for expanded education programs, healthcare of course, a green energy development plan, an infrastructure development plan, aid to displaced Iraqis, a program to help men become better fathers, a foreclosure compensation plan. Pretty much a Federal program for every aspect of our lives.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 7:02:23 PM
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Longfingers1
Posts: 444
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I'm with you. I and a few others here have wished for the same things, but seeing the comments being posted by the same and faithful few, I hardly doubt we can all agree, but hopefully I'll be proved wrong. There's still a few more weeks until the election, so we shall see. 
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 7:41:00 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
Again irrelevant; regardless of whether parents could op out, Obama still supports the idea of teaching kids in kindergarten sex ed that includes discussions on prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. The issue isn't about what the parent wants or doesn't want, the issue is about what Obama is in support of. Which is what McCain's ad was about.
That's completely bogus.
The entire point of the bill emphasizes the "age-appropriate" nature of the ed, and nothing in it suggests that K-kids be targeted for discussions about STDs.
The K-12 range refers to the overall scope of students that the bill would affect. It does not specify that all students are taught the same info across the board.
quote:
Now please tell me what is the age appropriate way to tell a kindergartner how to keep from spreading a sexually transmitted disease?
By shelving that discussion until the kindergarten kid at issue gets into HS.
Isn't it obvious?
< Message edited by todd_t -- 9/23/2008 7:55:20 PM >
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 8:03:15 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2343
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stimpy
quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
What about some of McCain's own commercials? There was that one alleged satire calling Obama a Savior. And there's still the issue of the racist comments by the Head of the Bernalillo County Republicans.
Because here was this "articulate and clean" Black man according to Biden (as if that should be viewed as out of the ordinary when I know MANY intelligent Blacks) who can deliver a good speech providing he has a teleprompter in front of him offering NOTHING more than a repetitious montra of "hope" and "change" without giving ANY details, and people inexplicably went "ga-ga" over it!
"We will look back at this day as the day we began to heal the planet" - Obama (paraphrased)
"God has blessed us with Barack Obama" - Nancy Pelosi
"This hurricane ['Gustav'] proves that God is on our side" (forgot which Democrat said that while on a private jet) Also, the liberal hero Michael Moore was heard rejoicing over the timing of the hurricane as well. Neither of these two seemed too concerned about those in it's path because the political opportunity it presented was more important than the lives of those who would be impacted by it.
Yeah, I'd say he's been treated as a bit of a "messiah" or at the very least, some sort of "rock star". So McCain pointed out how "silly" it all was.
There were over 43 people who lost their lives from Gustav. It was South Carolina U. S. Representative John Spratt who was caught on video saying that. Why there hasn't been more of an outcry from the media over this despicable behavior is beyond me. If it would have been a republican that person would have been forced out of office by now.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 10:31:10 PM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Specifically, what large, taxpayer-funded government programs do you think Obama is proposing? Healthcare?
Well to date, he has made plans for expanded education programs, healthcare of course, a green energy development plan, an infrastructure development plan, aid to displaced Iraqis, a program to help men become better fathers, a foreclosure compensation plan. Pretty much a Federal program for every aspect of our lives.
Oh. I can respect that we have a fundamental difference of opinion. Those programs sound like they are worth paying for to me. I don't have an issue contributing to programs like that because to whom much is given, much is expected. I do not, however, want to chip in on the $700B tab for corporate failure.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 10:51:26 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
Again irrelevant; regardless of whether parents could op out, Obama still supports the idea of teaching kids in kindergarten sex ed that includes discussions on prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. The issue isn't about what the parent wants or doesn't want, the issue is about what Obama is in support of. Which is what McCain's ad was about.
That's completely bogus.
The entire point of the bill emphasizes the "age-appropriate" nature of the ed, and nothing in it suggests that K-kids be targeted for discussions about STDs.
The K-12 range refers to the overall scope of students that the bill would affect. It does not specify that all students are taught the same info across the board.
quote:
Now please tell me what is the age appropriate way to tell a kindergartner how to keep from spreading a sexually transmitted disease?
By shelving that discussion until the kindergarten kid at issue gets into HS.
Isn't it obvious?
Well apparently you haven't read the very bill you gave a link to:
13 ......Each class or course in comprehensive sex
14 education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall
15 include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted
16 infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread
17 of HIV AIDS. Nothing in this Section prohibits instruction in
18 sanitation, hygiene or traditional courses in biology.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 11:19:47 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 380
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
Again irrelevant; regardless of whether parents could op out, Obama still supports the idea of teaching kids in kindergarten sex ed that includes discussions on prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. The issue isn't about what the parent wants or doesn't want, the issue is about what Obama is in support of. Which is what McCain's ad was about.
That's completely bogus.
The entire point of the bill emphasizes the "age-appropriate" nature of the ed, and nothing in it suggests that K-kids be targeted for discussions about STDs.
The K-12 range refers to the overall scope of students that the bill would affect. It does not specify that all students are taught the same info across the board.
It doesn't have to say that they're all taught the same across the board. The inclusion of the 'K' in K-12 means that kindergarteners WILL be taught sex ed. I'm an ex-teacher and I can tell you that that is an idea that has a lot of support. It's NOT appropriate to teach sex ed to any elementary grades.
quote:
Now please tell me what is the age appropriate way to tell a kindergartner how to keep from spreading a sexually transmitted disease?
quote:
By shelving that discussion until the kindergarten kid at issue gets into HS.
Isn't it obvious?
Uh, no it's not. Middle school is the time to introduce sex ed.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/23/2008 11:29:38 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 380
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: okrox
So that would be a "no", then, I take it.
We can't even agree that both candidates are well-intentioned? The official position here is, "Mine is right, and the other is pure evil. The End."
How very strange.
Why? What's strange about political disagreements? Are we so over-sensitive now that we have to quietly accept dangerous ideas like sex-ed for kindergarteners just because disagreement causes discomfort? Is there nothing YOU won't stand against?
quote:
What I find even stranger is that there is a great deal of hooplah from all the political commentators about how each side needs desperately to capture the undecided vote. I find this strange because apparently they are talking about me, and me only. I have yet to find another person IRL or online, who hasn't married a candidate yet. I am apparently the only person in the US who has yet to decide.
And since my state is about 68% McCain right now, it won't matter how I vote. Why don't they all just save their money and take a nice long cruise until November. Everyone has already decided and the vote is merely a formality now.
Carry on.
With all due respect, this sounds like a cop-out. The stakes are VERY high in the upcoming election for the future of our nation. It's a heavy responsibility to educate yourself and vote, and it takes courage and maturity to stand for what you believe in. Don't make excuses if you opt to sit it out.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/24/2008 12:18:23 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 538
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I am more than ready for this election to be over as well, and I think the tone will change a bit after Friday's debate - but I also think the left has elevated character assasination to the highest levels ever, and I think there should be consequences for that.
Only the right-wingers,
have attacked a Presidential candidate's religion -
quote:
Among the signatories of a letter that complained of the "hateful emails that use falsehood and innuendo to mischaracterize Senator Barack Obama's religious beliefs and who he is as a person" were heads of prominent Jewish organizations including the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Congress, the American Jewish Committee, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, the National Council of Jewish Women and the Jewish Council for Public Affairs. The full letter can be viewed at http://ga4.org/ct/Lp_OcNS1_zPd/.
The Jerusalem Post
And I hope there Will Be consequences;
If not here, then in the hereafter.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/24/2008 12:36:38 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Only the right-wingers,
have attacked a Presidential candidate's religion -
You seem to have completely ignored the bile spewed against Palin's beliefs and church by left-wingers; but I am not going tohold my breath waiting for these organizations to protest that.
But wait, you were one of the people who posted an unverified slimy rumor about Palin that later turned out to be a fabrication, so why would anyone listen to what you have to say about the matter?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/24/2008 12:39:44 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Oh. I can respect that we have a fundamental difference of opinion. Those programs sound like they are worth paying for to me. I don't have an issue contributing to programs like that because to whom much is given, much is expected.
No one is stopping you from donating to whatever programs you want.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/24/2008 12:43:23 AM
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okrox
Posts: 157
Joined: 4/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: okrox
So that would be a "no", then, I take it.
We can't even agree that both candidates are well-intentioned? The official position here is, "Mine is right, and the other is pure evil. The End."
How very strange.
Why? What's strange about political disagreements?
It's not the disagreements I find strange. It's the way some people use their faith to justify skewering anyone who disagrees with them.
quote:
Is there anything YOU won't stand against?
Yeeouch. That's a pretty aggressive statement for you to make about me. Again, just because I don't see it YOUR way, doesn't mean that I am spineless, convictionless, etc. etc. And, that's not really a statement about political disagreement. That's a jab at ME, a sister in Christ and fellow back-row Baptist, about whom you know nothing other than I am not 100% sold on any candidate yet.
quote:
With all due respect,
No, sorry...I don't think you are extending me any respect that I may be due...
quote:
this sounds like a cop-out.
I guess perhaps you could have read it like that. One point for you there. It's not, though. I absolutely am not passing up my chance to vote. I am a very faithful voter. I was just being realistic.
quote:
It's a heavy responsibility to educate yourself and vote
What makes you think I haven't educated myself? Oh. The fact that I am not head-over-heels in love with McCain/Palin yet? Are you thinking that obviously I must not be educated if I have some serious reservations about them still?
quote:
and it takes courage and maturity to stand for what you believe in.
Oh...you mean like the courage and maturity it takes for someone to disagree with nearly everyone on this board? Like the maturity and courage it takes for someone to say, "Hey! Can we please extend some courtesy and respect to even those with whom we disagree?" Like the courage and maturity it takes to question the "official Christian party line"? Like the courage and maturity it takes to say to yourself..."I'm going to make up my own mind and not just vote for whoever they tell me Christians HAVE to vote for?"
quote:
Don't make excuses if you opt to sit it out.
I never said I was sitting it out. I was just pointing out that the candidates may as well sit it out, because apparently everyone else has already decided and nothing, NOTHING will get anyone to change their minds.
You know, the funny thing is, if you and I knew each other IRL, we'd never have this discussion, and I bet we'd get along just dandy. But your post was such a beautiful example of what I was trying to ask people to re-examine: that whole "If you don't see it like I do, you're just plain nuts" school of thought that makes Christians so very, very repulsive to the rest of the world in general.
We can cherish our own convictions, and even converse and reason and disagree about them, without being shrill and self-righteous and narrow-minded. At least, that's what I hope.
_____________________________
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be 'til I die.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/24/2008 8:58:03 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8064
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: okrox
What makes you think I haven't educated myself? Oh. The fact that I am not head-over-heels in love with McCain/Palin yet? Are you thinking that obviously I must not be educated if I have some serious reservations about them still?
You better have some reservations about them, they are politicians after all. However the opposite party is so very anti-biblical that we have no choice. How can we say we follow Jesus and then support those who are anti-Christ?
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and it takes courage and maturity to stand for what you believe in.
Oh...you mean like the courage and maturity it takes for someone to disagree with nearly everyone on this board? Like the maturity and courage it takes for someone to say, "Hey! Can we please extend some courtesy and respect to even those with whom we disagree?"
Is it possible for a Christian to respect an abortionist or a homosexual promoter or someone who is forcing sexuality upon kindergarteners? I don't think so. We must love them, but we cannot respect them or enable them to do even more harm than they are already doing. I cannot respect any democrat because they support ideas that encourage people to go to hell.
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We can cherish our own convictions, and even converse and reason and disagree about them, without being shrill and self-righteous and narrow-minded. At least, that's what I hope.
I'll admit it. I'm very narrow minded. God says it, I believe it. God says "thou shalt not murder". That means don't kill babies. God says homosexual behavior is an abomination. That means I don't support anything that encourages homosexual behavior. God says "Sex is reserved for within a marriage (of one man joined to one woman)" That means don't be pushing our kids into sexual behavior.
If you read the democrat party platform (pick one from any of the last few elections) you see that they stand against almost everything Jesus stands for and that they stand for almost everything Jesus stands against.
I'd much rather be narrow minded and on Jesus' side than be broad minded and against him.
(Note" I'm not saying that Republicans are perfect, they are human after all, but at least the party platform is not anti-Christian. And in almost any election they are the only responsible choice a Christian can make)
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/24/2008 9:01:56 AM
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Longfingers1
Posts: 444
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: okrox
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ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
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ORIGINAL: okrox
So that would be a "no", then, I take it.
We can't even agree that both candidates are well-intentioned? The official position here is, "Mine is right, and the other is pure evil. The End."
How very strange.
Why? What's strange about political disagreements?
It's not the disagreements I find strange. It's the way some people use their faith to justify skewering anyone who disagrees with them.
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Is there anything YOU won't stand against?
Yeeouch. That's a pretty aggressive statement for you to make about me. Again, just because I don't see it YOUR way, doesn't mean that I am spineless, convictionless, etc. etc. And, that's not really a statement about political disagreement. That's a jab at ME, a sister in Christ and fellow back-row Baptist, about whom you know nothing other than I am not 100% sold on any candidate yet.
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With all due respect,
No, sorry...I don't think you are extending me any respect that I may be due...
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this sounds like a cop-out.
I guess perhaps you could have read it like that. One point for you there. It's not, though. I absolutely am not passing up my chance to vote. I am a very faithful voter. I was just being realistic.
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It's a heavy responsibility to educate yourself and vote
What makes you think I haven't educated myself? Oh. The fact that I am not head-over-heels in love with McCain/Palin yet? Are you thinking that obviously I must not be educated if I have some serious reservations about them still?
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and it takes courage and maturity to stand for what you believe in.
Oh...you mean like the courage and maturity it takes for someone to disagree with nearly everyone on this board? Like the maturity and courage it takes for someone to say, "Hey! Can we please extend some courtesy and respect to even those with whom we disagree?" Like the courage and maturity it takes to question the "official Christian party line"? Like the courage and maturity it takes to say to yourself..."I'm going to make up my own mind and not just vote for whoever they tell me Christians HAVE to vote for?"
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Don't make excuses if you opt to sit it out.
I never said I was sitting it out. I was just pointing out that the candidates may as well sit it out, because apparently everyone else has already decided and nothing, NOTHING will get anyone to change their minds.
You know, the funny thing is, if you and I knew each other IRL, we'd never have this discussion, and I bet we'd get along just dandy. But your post was such a beautiful example of what I was trying to ask people to re-examine: that whole "If you don't see it like I do, you're just plain nuts" school of thought that makes Christians so very, very repulsive to the rest of the world in general.
We can cherish our own convictions, and even converse and reason and disagree about them, without being shrill and self-righteous and narrow-minded. At least, that's what I hope.
I agree, we can't change others views but we should at least hear them out and respect them and it's not really shown or done here very often. I'd like to see others acknowledge the flaws, the lies, and the positive of each candidate presented, sadly that's not so. Instead it's my party's candidate is the best thing since slice bread type of attitudes being displayed, while at the same time questioning those who disagree with anything about their candidate about their faith and morals... I don't get it.
And this topic has gotten so off track because if memory serves me correctly, there's alreay a thread about the sex-ed ad, so those who have any thoughts from either side should continue to post them there.
Now, back to the OP's original post:
http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3829750/mpage_1/tm.htm#
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RE: Can we at least agree on this... - 9/24/2008 11:19:19 AM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
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