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[Poll]
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Church leaders and family "problems"
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| Yes, they would be allowed to remain in a position of leadership. |
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| No, they would be asked to step down. |
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Total Votes : 19
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(last vote on : 11/14/2008 1:56:58 PM)
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/24/2008 7:06:07 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
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From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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TrustingGod I couldn't have said it better myself.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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[Deleted] - 9/24/2008 8:08:50 PM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/24/2008 9:01:33 PM
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crankius
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quote:
Why ask this of just pastors? What about you? What about any parent?
Any quality parent will ask it of themselves.
However, to be an elder or deacon, there are specific qualifications spelled out. Those qualifications can be ignored, or they can be trusted.
I prefer a church who trusts God's Word above man's desires.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/24/2008 10:16:05 PM
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makarizo
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Is a pastor whose unmarried teen daughter is pregnant, and he chooses not to step down, in essence saying: "do as I say, and not as I do"?
Jas 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/24/2008 10:44:32 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2386
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To maybe throw in a few more kinks into the works. . .
Does a child rebelling automatically equate a father not able to manage? Can one do everything right, and still have a rebellious child? Are there situations that are simply out of one's hands?
Additionally, at what age do these qualifications end? When the child is . . . 16? 18? 21? 40? If my pastors full-grown child commits adultery, is my pastor responsible? Should he step down?
How we define family and children/adulthood I'm sure is different now than it was then. . . what is the context of the verse in question?
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love.ben
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/24/2008 11:13:58 PM
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makarizo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
(what you said)
I don't think blame designation should be the reason, ... not the cause... the effect.
if the focus is a rebellious child... for whatever reason, the step down needs to occur.
people should not be so willing to judge, but they always seem to be.
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 8:15:21 AM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 10:25:47 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
1 Timothy 3:1-7
This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Titus 1:6-9
if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
1 Titus 1:6 NIV--"...a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient."
The original word for "faithful" in that passage is pistovß. It is often translated as believe, but it can also mean trustworthy or faithful to follow commands.
What do you think pistovß means?
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 10:26:38 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5586
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quote:
ORIGINAL: miasma
If a deacon, elder, etc. at your church had a pregnant teen with known drug abuse problems, would they be allowed to retain their position of authority in the church?
Scripture is very plain concerning the qualifications for Church Leaders and one of those qualifications is;
(1Ti 3:4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(1Ti 3:5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
There is no wiggle room here; if a child is not under subjec5ion to the parent with all gravity; then that parent is not qualified to be a leader. They should immediately step down from that position (for which they are no longer qualified for). I would believe this would extend to all children living under the roof and care of the parent (young, teen, or even older).
This is one qualificatin that is sorely overlooked by most Churches and could be the reason for many problems and the lack of power from the pulpit.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
He should step down... but loved, supported and cared for. Not step down and him and his family, especially the girl, kicked to the curb.
Loved, supported and cared for is a spiritual sense, yesl but not financially. I have seen Churches that would send the Pastor on a vacation with pay for a couple of months and call that being in line with Scripture; that is nonsense.
The Holy Spirit had a reason for putting the qualifications in Scripture for us; and we need to heed the Word of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 10:34:35 AM
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 10:36:52 AM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 10:38:39 AM
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crankius
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Please see post 59 and answer.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 10:41:19 AM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 10:46:02 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5586
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
yeah rc - lets kick em to the curb and tell them to fend for themselves! That'll teach 'em!
If they are unqualified to Pastor, then they can get a job job like everyone else, until they correct the situation and then if so inclined they can seek a Pastorship.
Why should they be paid when they are not a Pastor and for having to step down because they did not do the job of Pastor correctly.
When a similiar situation happened to me I stepped down (self imposed becasue the Church would not do it), after two years I returned to the ministry.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 10:52:06 AM
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sue244
Posts: 442
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You know I wonder if more churches would follow the clear commands of Scritpure in regards to the qualification of pastors, the term 'PK' would not have the baggage attached to it that it has.
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"Indeed I Tremble for this country when I reflect that God is Just and His Justice cannot Sleep Forever"
Jefferson
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” Churchill
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 10:57:48 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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rcjames,
Again you said it well. Too few people overlook certain qualifications.
Oh your kid is a rebel. You can be an elder. Your kid is constantly getting arrested. You can be an elder. Your kid curses at you and has sex in the house. You can be an elder.
To me when someone wants to be an elder they should already know whether or not they qualify. Those who would have him be an elder should test him to see if he qualifies. If such a one;s house is in chaos he shouldn't be an elder. If you can't run your home, a little family, why in the world would you think you can run a church, a large family? Same goes for those who are to appoint. If a man can't run his how do you expect him to be a leader over you?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 11:01:10 AM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 11:03:56 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3121
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: miasma
If a deacon, elder, etc. at your church had a pregnant teen with known drug abuse problems, would they be allowed to retain their position of authority in the church?
Scripture is very plain concerning the qualifications for Church Leaders and one of those qualifications is;
(1Ti 3:4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(1Ti 3:5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
There is no wiggle room here; if a child is not under subjec5ion to the parent with all gravity; then that parent is not qualified to be a leader. They should immediately step down from that position (for which they are no longer qualified for). I would believe this would extend to all children living under the roof and care of the parent (young, teen, or even older).
This is one qualificatin that is sorely overlooked by most Churches and could be the reason for many problems and the lack of power from the pulpit.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
He should step down... but loved, supported and cared for. Not step down and him and his family, especially the girl, kicked to the curb.
Loved, supported and cared for is a spiritual sense, yesl but not financially. I have seen Churches that would send the Pastor on a vacation with pay for a couple of months and call that being in line with Scripture; that is nonsense.
The Holy Spirit had a reason for putting the qualifications in Scripture for us; and we need to heed the Word of God.
Thanks
RC
Wisdom... spoken from the mouth (or keyboard) of a real pastor!!
RC for President!!! 
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 11:04:44 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4504
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Please see post 59 and answer.
have fun with your little game, crankius.
I honestly think you are playing a game, but I am not. I think how we understand that word faithful is important to the topic.
If we think it means faithful to follow commands, then it would tie into obedience, and then a child wouldn't necessarily have to be a believer in order for the man to be qualified.
If we think it means believing, then the child must be faithful to God and His statutes for the man to be qualified.
It's an important distinction, and ties into your question very well. If you are a divinity student, you most likely are interested in studying the original language.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 11:06:10 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4504
Joined: 4/12/2005
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How do I know who an elder is? Because he is qualified according to Scripture. If he is not qualified, then he is not an elder.
He can call himself a pastor, but if he isn't qualified, he isn't an elder by the Biblical definition.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 11:12:44 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3121
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Emergenting
Talk about a graceless church. It is as if we have forgotten that we are all sinners.
What you seem not to know or chose to ignore, is the fact that there are different qualifications for men who chose to lead the sheep...they are held to a stricter set of standards and a higher degree of excellence because of the nature of what they do. The Word of God, in relation to what is being discussed in this thread, trumps every other argument and it is quite clear on this subject. You either believe what it says or you don't. Easy Peasy!!!
Oh, and btw, no one here (pastors or sheep) has said they are without sin.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 11:18:15 AM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 11:19:12 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
yeah rc - lets kick em to the curb and tell them to fend for themselves! That'll teach 'em!
You seem to have a habit of putting words into peoples mouth or reading meanings into things that people have not said. You really need to stop that.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 11:19:18 AM
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