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[Poll]
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Church leaders and family "problems"
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| Yes, they would be allowed to remain in a position of leadership. |
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| No, they would be asked to step down. |
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Total Votes : 19
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(last vote on : 11/14/2008 1:56:58 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 2:09:30 PM
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 2:14:10 PM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 2:17:18 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3122
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
emerging,
Your line of argument is very annoying. When did I ever say, "If you don't agree with me you aren't following scripture."? This is something you do and it needs to stop. You assume people mean something and put words into there mouths. It has to stop.
There is a simple way you can prove that I am misunderstanding your intent.
You said that to follow scripture is not being legalistic, yes?
I couldn't disagree with you more on how you are interpreting these passages. Do you believe I am following scripture?
Did you have any comment about the John Gill and Matthew Henry commentaries on these verses? Are they wrong too? I can give you more that are exactly the same if you'd like.
quote:
Those who have voted that the pastor must step down...
Do you blame all parents for their children's mistakes?
If you do not, than why do you blame pastors?
It is not a question of blame...it is what the Scriptures say that cannot be disputed. A man who cannot rule his own home or children no longer qualifies for the position of an overseer of the church.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 2:24:53 PM
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 2:38:45 PM
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 2:42:12 PM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 2:45:11 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
Those who have voted that the pastor must step down...
Do you blame all parents for their children's mistakes?
If you do not, than why do you blame pastors?
Yes all parents are to blame to some extent on the way the kids they have behave.
Also please stop calling sin issues mistakes.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 2:52:00 PM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 2:57:56 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2387
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: online
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How far does a child have to go before they have crossed the line and the elder/pastor should step down?
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 2:58:04 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3122
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Emergent
Then you are a hypocrit, Kat.
Okay, now you've taken it to a level where I'd never go.
Peace to you, I'm out.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 3:03:16 PM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 3:05:46 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
How far does a child have to go before they have crossed the line and the elder/pastor should step down?
That is what I will like to know also. It would seem that there are some that would have someone become an elder or stay one no matter what the children do or how they live. It couldn't be more clear that having your kids under control is a requirement. No one by any stretch of the imagination can say that for example a kid who gets in a car drunk and kills someone is under control. Or a girl who has sex out of wedlock and is on drugs is under control.
Everyone else can do as they please but I wouldn't want someone as a leader over me and my family (blood or fellow bros/sis in Christ) whose kids are hellions.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 3:07:37 PM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 3:08:46 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: online
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emerging,
I done talking with you. You like to put words in peoples mouths. It is only your opinion that what I said leads to what you assume. It is an annoying and obnoxious way of arguing and I'm done.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 3:10:25 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Emergent
Then you are a hypocrit, Kat.
Okay, now you've taken it to a level where I'd never go.
Peace to you, I'm out.
Take care, kat. I'm sorry if the truth offends you. At least child4jesus is consistent in his/her misinterpretation by having the guts to at least say that all parents are to blame for their kids sins.
peace.
Again I didn't say such a thing.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 3:11:54 PM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 3:14:15 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2387
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
How far does a child have to go before they have crossed the line and the elder/pastor should step down?
That is what I will like to know also. It would seem that there are some that would have someone become an elder or stay one no matter what the children do or how they live. It couldn't be more clear that having your kids under control is a requirement. No one by any stretch of the imagination can say that for example a kid who gets in a car drunk and kills someone is under control. Or a girl who has sex out of wedlock and is on drugs is under control.
Everyone else can do as they please but I wouldn't want someone as a leader over me and my family (blood or fellow bros/sis in Christ) whose kids are hellions.
But what if it is not that extreme?
A girl has sex, but regrets it? It's not a habit, but she messed up?
A teenage boy gets caught looking at porn? He's ashamed and knows it's wrong, but has an addiction and needs some help?
A 16 year old sneaks off with her friends to smoke cigs after school. It's illegal, but she's not making real trouble, is she?
A pastor's son comes out and declares he is gay, and moves out to move in with another gay man. He's out of the home now, but the struggle with SSA began within.
What do we do in gray areas?
_____________________________
love.ben
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 3:22:06 PM
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 3:27:23 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 458
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
How far does a child have to go before they have crossed the line and the elder/pastor should step down?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
That is what I will like to know also. It would seem that there are some that would have someone become an elder or stay one no matter what the children do or how they live. It couldn't be more clear that having your kids under control is a requirement. No one by any stretch of the imagination can say that for example a kid who gets in a car drunk and kills someone is under control. Or a girl who has sex out of wedlock and is on drugs is under control.
Everyone else can do as they please but I wouldn't want someone as a leader over me and my family (blood or fellow bros/sis in Christ) whose kids are hellions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
But what if it is not that extreme?
A girl has sex, but regrets it? It's not a habit, but she messed up?
A teenage boy gets caught looking at porn? He's ashamed and knows it's wrong, but has an addiction and needs some help?
A 16 year old sneaks off with her friends to smoke cigs after school. It's illegal, but she's not making real trouble, is she?
A pastor's son comes out and declares he is gay, and moves out to move in with another gay man. He's out of the home now, but the struggle with SSA began within.
What do we do in gray areas?
I assume you mean regrets it means she has godly repentance and doesn't want to do it again. If she shows true repentance to me there is no need to step down. However if this becomes a lifestyle of having sex and repenting, the father needs to step down and get things under control.
The father should step down and help his son get over this problem.
When did it become illegal to smoke cigs?
As far as the gay son, if it is known by the father that it started at home meaning the son came out at home, that is one thing. With him out of the house and living his own life it isn't necessary to step down. However now that I look at Titus 1:6 it kind of throws a curveball.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 3:52:31 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5586
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
So if a child who falls into sin is the parent's fault if they are a pastor that must translate accross the board. Let's hang a HUGE YOKE of guilt around every parent who ever lived whose kids fall into trouble. You heard it here folks: if your child messes up in any way it is not their fault, it is yours as their parent. Shame on you. I guess Palin is to blame for her daughter and if she can't keep a handle on her own household how can she run a nation?
Yes parents are responsible for their childrens action as long as they are under the care of their parnts, and are not an adult themselves.
I do not know about a "HuGE YOKE" of guilt as you put it; but the responsibility rests with the parents.
Yes the fault of the Palin's daughter commiting sexual sin rests with the father (head of the family), but neither he nor his wife are running for Elder or Bishop of the local Church. Just another strawman argument from your quiver full of such.
quote:
ORIGINAL: emerging
certainly they should be judged if they can't even get their kids to convert. .
Again you seemed confused about the basic tenents of our Faith. Parents cannot get (or force) their kids to accept Jesus; that is the job description of the Holy Spirit. You have heard about Him, correct?
And sir, if you truly studied Greed for three years; you wasted a lot of money and time.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 3:57:02 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3590
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
How far does a child have to go before they have crossed the line and the elder/pastor should step down?
That is what I will like to know also. It would seem that there are some that would have someone become an elder or stay one no matter what the children do or how they live. It couldn't be more clear that having your kids under control is a requirement. No one by any stretch of the imagination can say that for example a kid who gets in a car drunk and kills someone is under control. Or a girl who has sex out of wedlock and is on drugs is under control.
Everyone else can do as they please but I wouldn't want someone as a leader over me and my family (blood or fellow bros/sis in Christ) whose kids are hellions.
But what if it is not that extreme?
A girl has sex, but regrets it? It's not a habit, but she messed up?
A teenage boy gets caught looking at porn? He's ashamed and knows it's wrong, but has an addiction and needs some help?
A 16 year old sneaks off with her friends to smoke cigs after school. It's illegal, but she's not making real trouble, is she?
A pastor's son comes out and declares he is gay, and moves out to move in with another gay man. He's out of the home now, but the struggle with SSA began within.
What do we do in gray areas?
The scriptures lay out a guide.
Each situation has to be judged by it's own merits.
Torah = "instructions" but, we interpret it as "LAW."
We make a law out of what is instructions to life.
I don't know if I have ever agreed with emerging or not. lol.
My memory isn't that good, or maybe it's my lack of attendance.
But emerging, you have expanded what these passages may actually
be saying.
The automatic responses are from a denominational doctrine stance.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Church leaders and family "problems" - 9/25/2008 4:00:58 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3590
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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Have we tried and convicted without the "witnesses" required by
Scripture to speak against an elder?
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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[Deleted] - 9/25/2008 4:01:19 PM
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