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noisy kids in nursery - 9/28/2008 2:10:42 PM
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buckifn
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I know this prob has been discussed a lot but does anyone have any solutions/suggestions for when the noise level from kids in the nursery is so loud its interrupting the entire service?
We actually left early because of such a headache from all the screaming.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/28/2008 4:41:41 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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My grandmother tells me of the time when the Sunday School teachers had to quit doing 'I'm in the Lord's Army' with the kids because the room was above the santianasium and they were marching.
Anyway, at that church, they eventually built a wing that had the nursery (in that case, birth to pre-k) at the FAR END of it. You can't hear a thing until you walk down the hall. It's a pretty big church, though, so you wouldn't expect that of all of them.
It's awful to try to keep kids quiet, so there needs to be a middle ground. And maybe some acoustic foam. And an understanding that they can be louder during the music portion but not during the sermon portion. I am assuming, btw, that you don't mean CRYING BABIES, but noisy toddlers and preschoolers.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/28/2008 11:13:09 PM
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buckifn
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The ones making the most noise are 3 and 5 yr olds. They should not even be in the nursery imo but they are and it's the preacher's kids so there is no option of taking them out.
I believe a 5 yr old should be sitting in the pew or in jr church. Not rough housing in a nursery.
I wouldn't mind excessive noise during a song as was mentioned..but just screaming and yelling in defiance...I think it needs to be dealt with and stopped.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/28/2008 11:20:27 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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Doesn't the preacher have a wife who can go in and quiet her child? And are you saying that you can tell, from the sanctuary, that it is ONLY the preacher's two kids who are making the noise?
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Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 9:08:43 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
Doesn't the preacher have a wife who can go in and quiet her child? And are you saying that you can tell, from the sanctuary, that it is ONLY the preacher's two kids who are making the noise?
Yes, and the wife is in there most of the time which is part of the problem. The child is undisciplined and has no social skills.
It has been brought to the Pastor's attention before...things improve for a bit and then back to the same problems.
Yes, the pre-k kids are bored and needs another room to play, sing, and release their energy...but I don't know of anything else to try to make that happen.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 9:24:48 AM
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Auben
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What exactly has the pastor been made aware of in the past? Perhaps he needs someone to be a bit plainer with him.
This probably needs to be taken to the board so they can discuss it with the pastor before you lose members. Possibly the children can play in the pastor's office with their mother or another room (basement? secretary's office?) which is further from the sanctuary. If the weather is nice they can go outdoors (ours do on occasion) on the far side of the church from the sanctuary. We have some play equipment (donated by parents so nothing big) at our church so we can do that.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 12:21:37 PM
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1love1God1way
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Whenever we hear the kids screaming, we just smile and thank the Lord for them being there.
Our church is incredibly children's and youth ministry focused. It is what is most important to us. It is our vision. And them being loud is the least of our concerns.
We know they are in good hands and being loved, and that's all that matters.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 12:31:19 PM
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PrincessDonna
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Children are the future of the church. Jesus LOVED children and told his disciples not to hinder them from coming to him. The age of 5 is not too early to start making judgments about church that may last their entire lives.
Why not work on getting a real, age-appropriate kid's church going? One with a message on the kids' level, music they can get up and wiggle to, and FUN!! I really feel awful for kids who are relegated to a cry room or a room full of toys and no Biblical instruction. And the pastor's wife must be in there with them every week? Way to love on the pastor's family. 
Perhaps instead of judging them for the "lack of discipline", someone or a group of someones could step up and help disciple this young family. Being pastors doesn't make them perfect and perhaps they could use some real, practical parenting help. Gentle and loving help, not judging "help".
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 12:35:09 PM
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stellaluna
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We have a bazillion kids attending church during every service, but our kids wing is far from the sanctuary. I get the feeling this is a very small church. How many kids are in the "nursery" during the service? My uncle pastors a church that is tiny and they only have two or three kids under age 10. They don't have a children's church; everyone over age 4 (I think) attends regular service.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 1:18:27 PM
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buckifn
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I don't think it is a loving thing to do to allow kids to be out of control, rude, interrupting the service and running all over the church.
Noisy for a positive purpose is one thing ..but I am talking about something altogether different. Judgmental has nothing to do with it.
There are about 4 kids in the nursery who truly need to be there and about 5 who don't. 3 of them run all over the church yelling and screaming whenever they please and that includes the sanctuary.
I happen to believe the sanctuary is a Holy place and worship service is a sacred time.
I know at least 6 people who personally went to the pastor's wife and offered to take over the kids at least 1 Sunday a month. She refuses to leave even if and when another adult is there fully capable of handling things. You can't help someone who won't let you.
Speaking of judgmental what made you judge our love?
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 1:21:11 PM
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Consecrated2God
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So why don't you volunteer in the nursery and help out? It sounds like they could use some help.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 1:43:01 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I happen to believe the sanctuary is a Holy place and worship service is a sacred time.
I'm curious what part of kids being kids desecrates this Holy place?
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 3:48:17 PM
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PrincessDonna
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quote:
I don't think it is a loving thing to do to allow kids to be out of control, rude, interrupting the service and running all over the church.
How did you get that out of my post or anyone else's? 
You asked for solutions and you will get suggestions. You may not like some of them, but you will get them, for sure.
Your solution was to leave because the pastor's kids gave you a headache. Maybe you need to talk to the pastor about it and help him find a solution that works...for the KIDS and the church. I doubt the kids are flourishing in the situation either.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 6:26:20 PM
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thisistheday
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So there are usually 9 kids in the nursery? What age range? How many people are watching them? Is it just the pastors wife? Maybe she needs some help.
Dee
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 6:44:13 PM
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pbaribeault
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So, I'm seeing that there are 2 system-wide problems in your Church...
One is that when families struggle with parenting, and seem to be doing a poor job of it in general; nobody within your local Church body has a successful ministry of stepping up to offer help and instruction on that topic.
The other is that rather than a nursery being a room full of toy run ad-hoc according to the whims of the parents... the nursery should be an autonomous ministry, run by someone without children directly involved. That person should have the mandate of the congregation to set their own limits and the resources to plan a proper program according to their gifting. This would not allow for any parent to just decide that the nursery was available to their over-age child, nor would the nursery worker need to allow unnecessary parents to stay during nursery ministry time.
A third possible problem that your posts hint at is that maybe your pastor's family enjoys a certain privilege of 'freedom' to do what suits themselves without the kind of thinking that guides ordinary families to work out a way to be together that suits everybody. If this is so, if your pastor's family is somehow 'more' than the average family, it needs to be addressed as an error in both theology and practice. (A Pastor is no more than a gifted servant who's peers agree together to pay him a wage so that he can dedicate more of his time to ministry and service rather than breadwinning. There is respect and authority for his wisdom and role, but there is no status, and definitely no family status.)
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/29/2008 10:22:45 PM
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buckifn
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quote:
So why don't you volunteer in the nursery and help out? It sounds like they could use some help.
I actually offered to take over and coordinate other workers, as did one of our other leaders, but the idea was rejected by the Pastor when we addressed the matter with him a few months ago.
If I were the one in charge I would do as someone else suggested and recruit workers who do not have kids in the nursery as much as possible and remove all adults who hang out in there each week for no reason.
There are usually about 4 adults in there with their kids. I would also separate the toddlers who are over the age of 2 and have a special room just for them. If push comes to shove our leadership board has the authority to put the matter to a vote and let the majority rule, but we were hoping it didn't have to come to that...
for the person who asked- the youngest baby is 2 months and the oldest child is 5 yrs. It's a very dangerous and unhealthy situation in many ways imo.
There is no way I would leave my child in a room filled with chaos.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/30/2008 8:33:06 AM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
I actually offered to take over and coordinate other workers, as did one of our other leaders, but the idea was rejected by the Pastor when we addressed the matter with him a few months ago.
Maybe instead of offering to take over, you could offer to help. The pastor might not be interesting in handing over the ministry to someone if he views you as being disgruntled. Most of the time the best children's ministries are run by those with a passion and a heart for children, not by those who feel they should be in charge. They are also often run by promoting within. If you serve for a couple of years and demonstrate that you care for the kids, and get some working knowledge of the challenges of that ministry, maybe in time they will promote you to coordinator, but rarely to ministries give that position over to someone who has not first served as a volunteer.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/30/2008 9:10:39 AM
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buckifn
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Thanks consecrated, but there is no way I would serve in the current conditions. It's chaos and unsafe imo. Unless there was order, accountability, and boundaries I couldn't help and I know others feel the same.
The real thing we are trying to get to is how do we get order and structure . At this point it looks like only when a child gets seriously hurt or something else terrible happens will change be accepted.
I do know we have at least one lady in the church which could do a wonderful job of overseeing the nursery and has many years exp. of working with children, but she too will not work in the current environment. Getting the parent's out is a point almost everyone insists on before improvements can happen.
Have you ever worked with parent's who allow their kids to be totally out of control and do nothing about it? Things such as going up to an older person and punching them in the stomach, spitting on people, and walking up to someone else's table and pulling their plate onto the floor?
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/30/2008 9:45:44 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Maybe it's chaotic and safe because they don't have enough help. I really don't think anyone can have inside knowledge of what is really going on unless they are actually there.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/30/2008 10:40:04 AM
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phosadaud
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From: Washington State
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Here are my thoughts:
1. Whatever the reasons are, this does sound like a situation that must be addressed not only for the welfare of the church but the welfare of the children. From what it sounds like, I would NEVER allow my kids in that environment no matter what the reason for the issues.
2. I'm curious about the kids running all around the church. Does the nursery not have doors? I come from a large church with several hundred kids each Sunday and we don't have that issue because when kids are checked in to the nursery, they are enclosed in the nursery and do not get out. This is for their safety as well as the safety of adults (especially the elderly).
3. How has the leader been approached? There are many ways to approach someone and many of those ways are not good. They should be approached in love and humility and after much prayer.
4. A leader should never be so "proud" of their position, that their position becomes more important than their ministry. If the ministry isn't working, they need to love it so much, they are willing to do whatever it takes to make it work. If they don't have enough volunteers, they need to do whatever it takes to get those volunteers (that's why I don't get the idea that maybe they don't have enough help because if that's true, why aren't they doing anything about that?  ). That's kind of the definition of a leader. 
If the way they are doing things isn't working, they need to get rid of the pride and do something different. It sounds like there are some super basic changes that could be made that would make a difference. In addition, being a leader sometimes means knowing when the best thing is to step aside even IF you are a great leader. Sometimes things can get so bad that people become exasperrated and won't work with a current situation even if the current leader is great. Sometimes all it takes is for fresh faces to get folks to "give it a try again". A real leader will be willing to step aside to see that happen.
5. If the leaders aren't going to step aside, would they be open to someone maybe taking on the ministry of just toddlers or just infants so they can at least separate the 2 groups (I agree that out of control kids where 5 year olds are together with infants is a recipe for disaster)? Maybe if a dynamic leader takes on the minister of toddlers, the Pastor's wife can focus on just the little babies or something along those lines.
6. I think ultimately, if nothing changes, this does need to go to a congregational vote. I hate to see stuff like that happen, but the welfare of the kids and the church body is more important that one woman's "position" in the children's ministry.
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/30/2008 10:42:36 AM
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Memaw.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
Thanks consecrated, but there is no way I would serve in the current conditions. It's chaos and unsafe imo. Unless there was order, accountability, and boundaries I couldn't help and I know others feel the same.
The real thing we are trying to get to is how do we get order and structure . At this point it looks like only when a child gets seriously hurt or something else terrible happens will change be accepted.
I do know we have at least one lady in the church which could do a wonderful job of overseeing the nursery and has many years exp. of working with children, but she too will not work in the current environment. Getting the parent's out is a point almost everyone insists on before improvements can happen.
Have you ever worked with parent's who allow their kids to be totally out of control and do nothing about it? Things such as going up to an older person and punching them in the stomach, spitting on people, and walking up to someone else's table and pulling their plate onto the floor?
This is the Pastors' children doing this stuff?
Hmm, sounds like he needs to step down until he can get his house in order.
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Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: noisy kids in nursery - 9/30/2008 10:48:44 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1777
Joined: 5/23/2006
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I have some good news. 3 other people have called me about this today and 2 very good suggestions were given which I have passed on to the other leaders and we are going to have a meeting Thurs. to develop a plan of action for change.
One idea is to outsource the job- place an ad for nursery coordinator and hire someone outside of the church body to fill the position. Several people feel those within the congregation are just too close to the topic emotionally to make an impartial decision. I tend to agree with that.
The other solution was close the Nursery for a few weeks and renovate a room elsewhere for the new nursery and close off the nearest annex that leads to sanctuary from that room so that the children cannot run from the nursery into the sanctuary. Adding keycode access to the door so that only adults with a passcode can allow entry and exit was mentioned as well.
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