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[Poll]
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Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative?
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| Both - depends on the issue |
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| I don't know |
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Total Votes : 32
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(last vote on : 10/12/2008 8:42:10 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/3/2008 11:48:51 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
You said:
I do not believe that God calls the government to be His personal agent.
Taking my statement in context, I would have thought my meaning would have been clear - that is, that the government isn't supposed to take the Church's place as Jesus' hands and feet. I apologize if that wasn't clear.
quote:
Loving them is demonstrated by encouraging their behavior that will eventually bring the wrath of God upon them?
Who said anything about encouraging? Was repealing prohibition encouraging drunkenness?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/3/2008 9:27:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Taking my statement in context, I would have thought my meaning would have been clear - that is, that the government isn't supposed to take the Church's place as Jesus' hands and feet. I apologize if that wasn't clear.
From your posts is came across like the government was simply something to serve the people... And I simply making the point is has a purpose that God ordained... Whomever maybe in charge doesn't in my opinion change that mandate... I surely did not intend to insult...
quote:
Who said anything about encouraging?
I believe that when the authority says it's ok to do wrong that it encourages it... Given man's nature it's seems clear to me that's not a good thing... God allows evil, yet He his laws command otherwise...
quote:
Was repealing prohibition encouraging drunkenness?
No, yet there isn't something inherently evil with consuming alcohol... I can't say the same for abortion...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/3/2008 10:10:08 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
I surely did not intend to insult...
Apology accepted. : )
It seems to me that we both have the same basic take, we just have different opinions on what aspects of morality should be in the hands of government.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 1:29:35 AM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
No, yet there isn't something inherently evil with consuming alcohol... I can't say the same for abortion...
You have brought abortion into the argument so many times with me as well. I don't know how many times I need to say it to you. I AGREE WITH YOU, ABORTION IS WRONG! It's the very reason why I am registered independent and consider myself a libertarian (small L). I will not officially join their party for that reason. Obviously on the rest of the issues we are not going to see eye to eye, so we will have to agree to disagree, but something tells me you won't even agree to that. But either way, Jesus loves you and so do I.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 2:51:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
You have brought abortion into the argument so many times with me as well.
I wasn't aware Mr Fibbles was complaining...
quote:
I don't know how many times I need to say it to you. I AGREE WITH YOU, ABORTION IS WRONG! It's the very reason why I am registered independent and consider myself a libertarian (small L). I will not officially join their party for that reason. Obviously on the rest of the issues we are not going to see eye to eye, so we will have to agree to disagree, but something tells me you won't even agree to that. But either way, Jesus loves you and so do I.
What's obvious you didn't wish to respond to our last exchange so you chose to rant about abortion... I am referring to post 60.
I would love you to see you support the God allowing sin so why shouldn't the government by allowing man to do what is clearly wrong by removing the laws.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 3:03:13 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
What's obvious you didn't wish to respond to our last exchange so you chose to rant about abortion... I am referring to post 60.
I would love you to see you support the God allowing sin so why shouldn't the government by allowing man to do what is clearly wrong by removing the laws.
Seriously dude, I have addressed it and you see it a different way. We can agree to disagree, and as expected, you did not agree to that. Have a nice day Dr. House.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 6:38:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
What's obvious you didn't wish to respond to our last exchange so you chose to rant about abortion... I am referring to post 60.
I would love you to see you support the God allowing sin so why shouldn't the government by allowing man to do what is clearly wrong by removing the laws.
Seriously dude, I have addressed it and you see it a different way. We can agree to disagree, and as expected, you did not agree to that. Have a nice day Dr. House.
You said God grants freedom.... That doesn't really address much since God doesn't remove the law as you wish to do...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 6:41:19 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
You said God grants freedom.... That doesn't really address much since God doesn't remove the law as you wish to do...
God is the law. That's it. US laws will not make people moral. I don't see it your way, you don't see it my way. We will have to agree to disagree. But as I said before, that won't be acceptable to you. If you want to be right, you can be right, but so am I.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 8:08:08 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
God is the law. That's it. US laws will not make people moral.
The law is not intended to make one moral it is there to make the accountable... God ordained the civil government for the sake of order, and clearly say it is His minister of wrath for those who do evil. Given that stated purpose it's is clearly and issue for the civil government to sanction evil... You have not dealt with that clear point...
Though on another thread you gave clue to the problem... You believe you can have a moral stance against homosexuality and separate political stance.
quote:
I don't see it your way, you don't see it my way. We will have to agree to disagree. But as I said before, that won't be acceptable to you. If you want to be right, you can be right, but so am I.
I agree you haven't supported your view... You are not right...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 8:27:11 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The law is not intended to make one moral it is there to make the accountable... God ordained the civil government for the sake of order, and clearly say it is His minister of wrath for those who do evil. Given that stated purpose it's is clearly and issue for the civil government to sanction evil... You have not dealt with that clear point...
Define God's wrath as being administered by the government. When I think of God's wrath I think of Noah's Ark, Sodom & Gomorrah, etc. That is why I asked earlier if you are implying that homosexuals and those who violate God's law should be executed.
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Though on another thread you gave clue to the problem... You believe you can have a moral stance against homosexuality and separate political stance.
Yes, I did and I don't see the problem. Our laws in this country are based in part (or rather should be) on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Yes the men who wrote these documents were inspired by God, but sought not to create a theocracy. What you are advocating is such a thing.
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I agree you haven't supported your view... You are not right...
I'm on to your game now Dr. House. I have seen your play book. I'm not falling for that trap again.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 8:42:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
Define God's wrath as being administered by the government. When I think of God's wrath I think of Noah's Ark, Sodom & Gomorrah, etc.
Clear example would be the thieves on the crosses with Christ receiving justly their due reward...
If you don't think so please explain Romans 13:4.....
You do know that God at times uses man to exercise His wrath?
quote:
That is why I asked earlier if you are implying that homosexuals and those who violate God's law should be executed.
I stated the purpose of the government and you think the above.... I now understand why, you don't understand God's wrath in full.... You see it as events like the flood, Sodom.... The government justly dealing with those who do evil is acting as God's minister of His wrath... That is what they are supposed to do...
quote:
Yes, I did and I don't see the problem. Our laws in this country are based in part (or rather should be) on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Yes the men who wrote these documents were inspired by God, but sought not to create a theocracy. What you are advocating is such a thing.
The problem is that God doesn't say we can server two masters.... I am not advocating a theocracy, I am wondering how one can morally against something and be for it in another aspect of their life as if we are compartmentalize beings. The bible says a house divided will fall, correct? Understand that I am dealing with that issue more so not simply what the government is doing or not...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 9:01:08 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Clear example would be the thieves on the crosses with Christ receiving justly their due reward...
So you do define God's wrath as capital punishment for defying God's law. Well we better fire up that electric chair because we have a lot of executions to get to.
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If you don't think so please explain Romans 13:4.....
We need to hold the government in healthy respect.
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You do know that God at times uses man to exercise His wrath?
yeah, like on 9-11
quote:
I stated the purpose of the government and you think the above.... I now understand why, you don't understand God's wrath in full.... You see it as events like the flood, Sodom.... The government justly dealing with those who do evil is acting as God's minister of His wrath... That is what they are supposed to do...
And I ask for an example and you give me a crucifixion. So again I ask, are you suggesting capital punishment for homosexuals and others who disobey God's law?
quote:
The problem is that God doesn't say we can server two masters.... I am not advocating a theocracy, I am wondering how one can morally against something and be for it in another aspect of their life as if we are compartmentalize beings. The bible says a house divided will fall, correct? Understand that I am dealing with that issue more so not simply what the government is doing or not...
Well perhaps I could sever two masters, but perhaps you meant serve. You are advocating a theocracy. I know that there are things that are against God's law, but unfortunately you live in a country where people are free to think and believe as they want to, and we can not force them to follow God's law. I will follow God's law because it is written on my heart to do so. I feel that too many Christians are looking for the Government to spread their morals rather than being a light in the world.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 10:14:46 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
So you do define God's wrath as capital punishment for defying God's law. Well we better fire up that electric chair because we have a lot of executions to get to.
No...Here is what I am speaking of...
The Roman government put two men to death for their deeds... In Luke 23 it says they justly received their due reward for their deeds... The were put to death by the civil government for their crimes... In accordance with Romans 13...
I don't and didn't define God wrath as capital punishment for defying God's law in the case of the thieves... You did...
If you want an example of that I would point to Exodus 32 where God had Moses put thousands to death for not choosing God...
quote:
We need to hold the government in healthy respect.
It says...
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Quite clear.... See the part where is say the civil government is His minister of wrath? That is what I am speaking to... If you can show that I am wrong I will gladly change my tune...
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yeah, like on 9-11
If you can make the case the act was just...
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I stated the purpose of the government and you think the above.... I now understand why, you don't understand God's wrath in full.... You see it as events like the flood, Sodom.... The government justly dealing with those who do evil is quote:
acting as God's minister of His wrath... That is what they are supposed to do...
And I ask for an example and you give me a crucifixion. So again I ask, are you suggesting capital punishment for homosexuals and others who disobey God's law?
I gave you an example of a civil government putting folks to death for their deeds... The Romans didn't put them to death according to God's law, but theirs and it was said to be just... You are clearly demonstrating you don't understand the ordained purpose of the government. I haven't mentioned the governement once putting gays to death... You simply keep going there because you cannot deal with the context of Romans 13...
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Well perhaps I could sever two masters, but perhaps you meant serve.
Yes I meant serve.... And it seems you believe you can...
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You are advocating a theocracy.
Nope.... I am not... You simply keep stating so because you don't have an argument... Understanding the Roman government justly put two folks to death and that it aligns with Romans 13 isn't calling for a theocracy, it's simply understanding the civil government acted in accordance with God's ordained purpose for it...
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I know that there are things that are against God's law, but unfortunately you live in a country where people are free to think and believe as they want to, and we can not force them to follow God's law.
So the answer is to have the government advocate whatever people want? Where does one draw the line? When do the evil desires of man cross the line?
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I will follow God's law because it is written on my heart to do so.
How can one do that supporting laws that conflict with God's law?
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I feel that too many Christians are looking for the Government to spread their morals rather than being a light in the world.
Can't be the light of world supporting the government to allow unlawful things...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/5/2008 10:50:08 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I don't and didn't define God wrath as capital punishment for defying God's law in the case of the thieves... You did...
Actually, you did. I asked for an example and you give me an execution.
quote:
quote:
We need to hold the government in healthy respect.
It says...
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Quite clear.... See the part where is say the civil government is His minister of wrath? That is what I am speaking to... If you can show that I am wrong I will gladly change my tune...
So if we break the law, the government can punish us, I get it. I think you may be using the word wrath incorrectly in this case. This does not necessarily refer to the wrath of God. We bring wrath on ourselves if we break the rules, the government's or God's, and we are subject to the government as it is ordained by God.
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I stated the purpose of the government and you think the above.... I now understand why, you don't understand God's wrath in full.... You see it as events like the flood, Sodom.... The government justly dealing with those who do evil is acting as God's minister of His wrath... That is what they are supposed to do...
You who are so wise claim to know me? Again, it is wrath, not necessarily His wrath.
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I gave you an example of a civil government putting folks to death for their deeds... The Romans didn't put them to death according to God's law, but theirs and it was said to be just...
So we are in agreement? Not God's law.
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You are clearly demonstrating you don't understand the ordained purpose of the government. I haven't mentioned the governement once putting gays to death... You simply keep going there because you cannot deal with the context of Romans 13...
I keep going there because you haven't given me an example of wrath that does not involve some sort of execution. Perhaps it is you that is not comfortable with the context of Romans 13 being about a healthy respect for the government in whatever form it is.
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Nope.... I am not... You simply keep stating so because you don't have an argument... Understanding the Roman government justly put two folks to death and that it aligns with Romans 13 isn't calling for a theocracy, it's simply understanding the civil government acted in accordance with God's ordained purpose for it...
You see, you are. I believe I had this same argument with you approximately 3 years ago when you started on a rant about the Constitution being a "Godless Document." Was that you?
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So the answer is to have the government advocate whatever people want? Where does one draw the line? When do the evil desires of man cross the line?
Now it is you putting words in my mouth. I advocate a government that does as our founding fathers intended. Protect the civil liberties of it's citizens as defined in the context of a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
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How can one do that supporting laws that conflict with God's law?
Supporting something and taking part in it are entirely different things.
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Can't be the light of world supporting the government to allow unlawful things...
I disagree. The world would have a healthier respect if we weren't using the government to enforce our morals. It would show that we truly have a faith in God, and not the government.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/6/2008 12:00:25 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgsoundguy
Actually, you did. I asked for an example and you give me an execution.
I gave you an example of the civil government acting in just manner in accordance with Romans 13... If you don't believe the government has the right to justly take life you need to make the argument...
For the record this is what I posted...
The Roman government put two men to death for their deeds... In Luke 23 it says they justly received their due reward for their deeds... The were put to death by the civil government for their crimes... In accordance with Romans 13...
Can you refute that?
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So if we break the law, the government can punish us, I get it. I think you may be using the word wrath incorrectly in this case. This does not necessarily refer to the wrath of God. We bring wrath on ourselves if we break the rules, the government's or God's, and we are subject to the government as it is ordained by God.
And God ordained it be His minister, to deal with those who do evil... I am not using the word wrath outside the context. The verse says the government is His minster... I believe when it acts justly it's God's wrath...
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You who are so wise claim to know me? Again, it is wrath, not necessarily His wrath.
The verse in Romans clearly states the civil government is a minister of God and is to deal with those of who do evil... If you can refute that you will collapse me entire argument...
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I gave you an example of a civil government putting folks to death for their deeds... The Romans didn't put them to death according to God's law, but theirs and it was said to be just...
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So we are in agreement? Not God's law.
The Romans put to the two thieves to death justly... They acted in accordance to the ordained purpose of the civil government.
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I keep going there because you haven't given me an example of wrath that does not involve some sort of execution.
Ok When the government justly puts a criminal away for 5 years for a crime is another example. The fact the thieves were put to death by the government doesn't change anything. Do you take exception to the fact the civil government can justly take life?
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Perhaps it is you that is not comfortable with the context of Romans 13 being about a healthy respect for the government in whatever form it is.
I am not comfortable with that being the only thing one should gleam from Romans 13 since the chapter is clear the government has a role ordained by God...
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You see, you are.
No...Believing civil government is acting justly and accordingly when justly dealing with those who do evil isn't promoting a theocracy.
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I believe I had this same argument with you approximately 3 years ago when you started on a rant about the Constitution being a "Godless Document." Was that you?
The Constitution isn't a godless document in that the rights it guarantees are said to exist prior and arguably have their origins in God... That is my belief so I doubt that was me...
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Now it is you putting words in my mouth. I advocate a government that does as our founding fathers intended. Protect the civil liberties of it's citizens as defined in the context of a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
I'll asked again...Where does one draw the line? When do the evil desires of man cross the line?
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Supporting something and taking part in it are entirely different things.
Only if one keeps things in the secular realm...
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I disagree. The world would have a healthier respect if we weren't using the government to enforce our morals. It would show that we truly have a faith in God, and not the government.
Understanding the role of government is not using them to enforce morals... God has a purpose for the civil government, it's stated in Romans 13...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/6/2008 10:16:56 AM
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GBrady
Posts: 18
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline
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I am not registered libertarian but definitely am libertarian-leaning. For the most part, I agree with the statement "The government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to give it away."
I also feel that, as a Christian, downsizing the Fed to basics would do the most to give me more of the money I earn back so I could better pay down my remaining debt obligations and do more for God's work with the money He entrusts me with. As it now stands, I mostly go from paycheck to paycheck and am not able to support the level of giving I'd like. (We only have 1 car, a modest home, and 1 child. We simply made a lot of financial errors before the marriage and our re-commitment to God and we are now paying for them. We have some very large student loans still outstanding plus the mortgage. Our car is paid for and we have NO credit cards. We also have NO savings (other than my 401K) because of paying off other debt and general "life stuff" that takes my $$ as quick as I get extra, like car problems, fridge breaks down etc.)
Also I agree with others that gay marriage and abortion, while I do NOT support either and feel God does not either based on Scripture, are the results of matters of the heart. When we attempt to pass Federal laws to prohibit gay civil unions (I never back anything calling for "marriage" as I feel that the State does not determine what constitutes a marriage, God does, and He explicitly set it up as for 1 man and 1 woman...) or prohibit abortion, we harden the hearts of those who need the Gospel. They will feel it is being "pushed down their throats" and become more resistant. I understand the feelings of those arguing for the lives of the unborn but I simply think that making it "illegal" will only stop a portion of them, many will go the back alley route and likely some of the "true believers" on the pro-choice side will continue to perform them illegally and I also think that we simply can't demand that a woman be noble instead of merely ethical. (i.e. Many pro-lifers want NO exemption for rape/incest/health of mother and I find that insupportable and unconscionable)
I do disagree with the Libertarian platform on drugs...I feel that legalization of further drugs will only cause problems...and I actually think to win the war on drugs we ought to stop choking down on the suppliers and focus the most effort on USERS. Get 'em in a program, get 'em clean...three times in rehab, they go to jail for a long period. Make drug usage extremely undesirable and that will help end it. As long as people are willing to pay high prices for drugs, there will be illegal drugs..that's simply supply and demand capitalism.
I also support some minor REASONABLE restrictions on gun ownership (I don't think private citizens need to own automatic weapons to hunt with and I definitely don't think a waiting period and background check are unreasonable...criminals shouldn't own guns and neither should people with certain mental conditions) so I differ from them a bit there.
I don't support "anarchy", in fact I believe the basic function of government is to provide PROTECTION which an anarchist would not desire as they feel they protect themselves. I just don't believe we need Federal departments for Health, Education, Homeland Security etc etc etc. The government is bloated and it costs too much.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/8/2008 4:36:36 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GBrady
Also I agree with others that gay marriage and abortion, while I do NOT support either and feel God does not either based on Scripture, are the results of matters of the heart.
What isn't a matter of the heart? How is homosexuality and abortion matters of the heart as opposed to stealing?
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When we attempt to pass Federal laws to prohibit gay civil unions (I never back anything calling for "marriage" as I feel that the State does not determine what constitutes a marriage, God does, and He explicitly set it up as for 1 man and 1 woman...) or prohibit abortion, we harden the hearts of those who need the Gospel.
What hardens their heart is the action... Regardless that man doesn't declare abortion murder it's still a violation of God's law. So in reality allowing them is what truly hardens their heart.
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They will feel it is being "pushed down their throats" and become more resistant. I understand the feelings of those arguing for the lives of the unborn but I simply think that making it "illegal" will only stop a portion of them, many will go the back alley route and likely some of the "true believers" on the pro-choice side will continue to perform them illegally and
To be consistent you should feel the same way about murder outside the womb... If you really believe God is against abortion, which is murder in the womb you should
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I also think that we simply can't demand that a woman be noble instead of merely ethical. (i.e. Many pro-lifers want NO exemption for rape/incest/health of mother and I find that insupportable and unconscionable)
What's unconscionable and un-biblical is to put to death the child for the actions of the father. You have verse that would allow the mother to murder the child for being raped?
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John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/9/2008 12:31:15 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The U.S. Libertarian Party political platform (2008)[5] states: that "Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.".
Sarah Palin agrees with this position. Palin's Comments on Roe v. Wade
She believes that "states should choose". Not a real "mavarick" pro-life position! She doesn't want it overturned, she wants it reinterpreted! Maybe she's a lib(ertarian) in rep clothing!  For her, it's a subjective choice by a state's government. She doesn't want to criminalize killing the unborn either. This is why I say there are truly no pro-life politicians!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/9/2008 7:51:06 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The U.S. Libertarian Party political platform (2008)[5] states: that "Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.".
Sarah Palin agrees with this position. Palin's Comments on Roe v. Wade
She believes that "states should choose". Not a real "mavarick" pro-life position! She doesn't want it overturned, she wants it reinterpreted! Maybe she's a lib(ertarian) in rep clothing! For her, it's a subjective choice by a state's government. She doesn't want to criminalize killing the unborn either. This is why I say there are truly no pro-life politicians!
Why would I care what Sarah Palin thinks?
Because politically you are a one dimensional person and she is the "conservative" poster child on the "maverick, we'll go against the grain and stand up for values" Republican ticket. McSame is of an even more liberal mindset than her, hence, there is guaranteed to be NO ACTION on the only issue that keeps mindless Christians coming back to the Republican demagogues. The lack of a pro-life action plan shows the hypocrisy on this subject by the Republicans.
At least Libertarians call it a personal choice so, therefore, you can have pro-life as well as pro-death members.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/9/2008 1:24:17 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Because politically you are a one dimensional person and she is the "conservative" poster child on the "maverick, we'll go against the grain and stand up for values" Republican ticket. McSame is of an even more liberal mindset than her, hence, there is guaranteed to be NO ACTION on the only issue that keeps mindless Christians coming back to the Republican demagogues. The lack of a pro-life action plan shows the hypocrisy on this subject by the Republicans.
I haven't vote for a Republican since 1984 and the current Republican ticket isn't going to change that... Looks like your assumption is wrong...
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At least Libertarians call it a personal choice so, therefore, you can have pro-life as well as pro-death members.
And the hypocrisy that goes with that...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Is the Libertarian party liberal or conservative? - 10/10/2008 8:18:08 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Because politically you are a one dimensional person and she is the "conservative" poster child on the "maverick, we'll go against the grain and stand up for values" Republican ticket. McSame is of an even more liberal mindset than her, hence, there is guaranteed to be NO ACTION on the only issue that keeps mindless Christians coming back to the Republican demagogues. The lack of a pro-life action plan shows the hypocrisy on this subject by the Republicans.
I haven't vote for a Republican since 1984 and the current Republican ticket isn't going to change that... Looks like your assumption is wrong...
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At least Libertarians call it a personal choice so, therefore, you can have pro-life as well as pro-death members.
And the hypocrisy that goes with that...
Well one thing John I commend you for being consistent in your beliefs and at least having reasons to back you up. We may not see eye to eye on things many times but at least (unlike our current crop of politicians) their is no mystery about where you stand!
Even if I don't agree with what you say at times, I respect your conviction! God bless!!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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