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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 3:52:50 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10965
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quote:
Then how much damage do you think gets done to the economy by having a financial system that's essentially locked up and unable to lend? To take this position, I think you have to believe that the damage will not be major and will be short-lived. That's what they say about EVERY recession. The last major one in the 80's I barely noticed. Just a blip on the radar screen, as this one will be.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 3:56:48 PM
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ekserekseez
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HighPlainsDrifter is right. Take your medicine and get it over with. Face it, people bought stuff they couldn't afford, and unscrupulous institutions helped them. They should face the consequences. I bet if someone loses their house, they think twice about the size of the next mortgage they apply for.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 3:58:11 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3549
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Well that is a shame, we are in deep trouble. Saturday my husband deposited my paycheck in the bank, and cash in another account. They would not post my check, until today in the one account, but would in the other that my husband deposited cash in. We have four accounts, that is the way understood him to say anyway. I will ask him when he gets home from work, and make sure I am correct. I am pretty sure, it was correct though.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:00:33 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10965
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That is standard practice lightshineon, to post the deposit on the check the next business day. Been that way forever.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:02:37 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Some banks do that and some don't. Some change from time to time. Given the need to hang on to capital, I would imagine more banks will be holding funds.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:03:24 PM
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lightshineon
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No, I transfer money from accounts online on to another, and it is posted right away, and when I deposit my check, it is aways posted when I go home and look online, right away, even on saturday. Though I am not savy about money, good thing my husband is.  So I really do not know if this means anything or not???????????????????/
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
That is standard practice lightshineon, to post the deposit on the check the next business day. Been that way forever.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:04:45 PM
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bzirk
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Does your bank have a clause that says they reserve the right to hold funds on a check drawn from another bank? Bet they have one, and now they're exercising it. I don't blame them at all. Probably most banks are doing this.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:06:44 PM
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lightshineon
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They have never done it before, and I have plenty in my accounts to cover it. I have banked there many years, and it has never happened.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
Does your bank have a clause that says they reserve the right to hold funds on a check drawn from another bank? Bet they have one, and now they're exercising it. I don't blame them at all. Probably most banks are doing this.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:09:38 PM
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blue1914
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
I'm inclined to believe the defeat of this bailout bill was a good thing. Open up America, and take some medicine. It might taste yucky for awhile, but you'll feel better in the end.
I know a lot of people feel this way-I just wonder if everyone understands what they are saying here.
Here's a little context to it all-the $700 billion is really just a BAND-AID on a sucking chest wound if you will. It's a gimmick to try to get the markets under control - it's nowhere near the $66 TRILLION (that's with a T) that is estimated to be the real accounting of the assets at risk.
CDO's were bad news-great upside potential if they paid off, BIG risk potential if they failed. Today, you have a scenario where a WHOLE LOT of them failed-not consumers failing to pay their little mortgage payments, but the millions (in thin air) that their mortgage payments really helped to finance.
This is not "bailing out the fatcats" - it's ensuring that you have a job tomorrow-if your company can't secure financing (most companies today carry a sizeable amount of debt-that's how they stay in operation) then they can't expand. If your company fails, the products or services it provides will dry up. Your suppliers will go out of business as well, putting their suppliers out of business, etc. etc. In time, a real depression could ensue
The "fatcats" are panicking about this possibility (they KNEW what they were doing, remember?) and clamping down on what little money they do have. The federal government is trying to show them that they don't have to do that-someone will be looking out for THEIR interests. Remember though-this is really a drop in the bucket of what is REALLY needed-so this may not even fix the problem, but the politicians are betting that it will calm the market long enough to create a new bubble and we can return to "business as usual".
A real fix-but no one wants to hear this - raise tariffs to fund some of this junk, make business abroad as expensive as business in the U.S. and tax the heck out of everything that BEGINS to look like a luxury to encourage baseline consumption of necessities produced WITHIN American borders-get Americans working again and spending their paychecks on what they make and THAT will be the "better in the end". Unfortunately, no one will be the politician to stand up and tell the "average middle class American" that they can't have 3 Lexuses and a vacation house purchased on credit-it would be political suicide.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:12:28 PM
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LabGuy
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In my opinion, Speaker Pelosi's speech was a transparent ploy to derail the bailout in order to prolong the crisis. The longer bad economic news commands the headlines, the better it is for Senator Obama. I am really hoping they overplay their hand and the public purchases a clue. I mean, there's playing politics, and then there's knifing your country in the belly to give your candidate an edge.
In my opinion, of course.
However, I'll repeat an earlier question I had - is there a good alternative to this bailout scheme? I don't want my retirement savings to vaporize. I mean, I'm with a solid company that is not involved in the mess, but if the market crashes completely, everybody is going to suffer.
-Robb
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:16:51 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
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quote:
A real fix-but no one wants to hear this - raise tariffs to fund some of this junk, make business abroad as expensive as business in the U.S. and tax the heck out of everything that BEGINS to look like a luxury to encourage baseline consumption of necessities produced WITHIN American borders-get Americans working again and spending their paychecks on what they make and THAT will be the "better in the end". Unfortunately, no one will be the politician to stand up and tell the "average middle class American" that they can't have 3 Lexuses and a vacation house purchased on credit-it would be political suicide.
Raise tariffs? Are you familiar with the Smoot-Hawley Act?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:16:56 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
Then how much damage do you think gets done to the economy by having a financial system that's essentially locked up and unable to lend? To take this position, I think you have to believe that the damage will not be major and will be short-lived. That's what they say about EVERY recession. The last major one in the 80's I barely noticed. Just a blip on the radar screen, as this one will be.
Wow, now that's either incredible optimism or a severe lack of understanding of the current state of our supposed "free market" system.
I wish I felt you were correct.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:17:31 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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The repubs president sends this bill over, the dems try to work on it and it's their fault?
The repubs let this go on with its dereg everything, but its the dems fault?
Nancy didnt do this, I dont care what she says, she didnt make everyone greedy and break the rules, she diodnt tell Bush to let his buddies get richer.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:18:03 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2910
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
In my opinion, Speaker Pelosi's speech was a transparent ploy to derail the bailout in order to prolong the crisis. The longer bad economic news commands the headlines, the better it is for Senator Obama. I am really hoping they overplay their hand and the public purchases a clue. I mean, there's playing politics, and then there's knifing your country in the belly to give your candidate an edge.
In my opinion, of course.
However, I'll repeat an earlier question I had - is there a good alternative to this bailout scheme? I don't want my retirement savings to vaporize. I mean, I'm with a solid company that is not involved in the mess, but if the market crashes completely, everybody is going to suffer.
-Robb
Thanks for that last sentence on your post - you get the idea.
There really aren't too many other options. You can send assistance to defaulting homeowners, but it doesn't really address the problem of bank liquidity and undercapitalization. It helps, but it doesn't put the banks back in a position to resume doing business. That's the more urgent problem right now. Plus, the issue is spreading into other sectors right now, so the only way to address a broadening problem is to strike at the source.
(As a footnote, Pelosi's speech was stupid and ill-timed but not really that far outside the scope of what's been being said all through this crisis. She was doing a fair bit of baiting the Republicans, but shame on them for taking the bait. I'm not sure which side of the aisle was the more stupid.)
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:19:18 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2910
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
A real fix-but no one wants to hear this - raise tariffs to fund some of this junk, make business abroad as expensive as business in the U.S. and tax the heck out of everything that BEGINS to look like a luxury to encourage baseline consumption of necessities produced WITHIN American borders-get Americans working again and spending their paychecks on what they make and THAT will be the "better in the end". Unfortunately, no one will be the politician to stand up and tell the "average middle class American" that they can't have 3 Lexuses and a vacation house purchased on credit-it would be political suicide.
Raise tariffs? Are you familiar with the Smoot-Hawley Act?
Jhud is right - this one's been tried before. It didn't turn out very well.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:26:22 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
A real fix-but no one wants to hear this - raise tariffs to fund some of this junk, make business abroad as expensive as business in the U.S. and tax the heck out of everything that BEGINS to look like a luxury to encourage baseline consumption of necessities produced WITHIN American borders-get Americans working again and spending their paychecks on what they make and THAT will be the "better in the end". Unfortunately, no one will be the politician to stand up and tell the "average middle class American" that they can't have 3 Lexuses and a vacation house purchased on credit-it would be political suicide.
Raise tariffs? Are you familiar with the Smoot-Hawley Act?
If the "conditions on the ground" (I know the right tends to love that phrase) were the same as those at the time of the Smoot-Hawley Act (overcapacity in American factories, ACTUAL surpluses of goods that were not being sold instead of just on paper, etc.), I would tend to agree with you.
On the other hand, we have nowhere NEAR those same conditions. (with Manufacturing Capacity hovering just under 80% and over 70% of the products sold in Wal-Mart being imported).
Additionally, Smoot-Hawley happened at a different time in America's economic history - there was still a concept at that time of "hard money"-not pie in the sky "credit" that caused THIS crisis.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:27:19 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10965
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
Then how much damage do you think gets done to the economy by having a financial system that's essentially locked up and unable to lend? To take this position, I think you have to believe that the damage will not be major and will be short-lived. That's what they say about EVERY recession. The last major one in the 80's I barely noticed. Just a blip on the radar screen, as this one will be.
Wow, now that's either incredible optimism or a severe lack of understanding of the current state of our supposed "free market" system.
I wish I felt you were correct.
Well, I suppose I could imitate a chicken and go about crying "THE SKY IS FALLING!" 
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:27:48 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1753
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
I'm inclined to believe the defeat of this bailout bill was a good thing. Open up America, and take some medicine. It might taste yucky for awhile, but you'll feel better in the end.
Then how much damage do you think gets done to the economy by having a financial system that's essentially locked up and unable to lend? To take this position, I think you have to believe that the damage will not be major and will be short-lived.
But they've been lending like drunken sailors for years. IMO, locking things down for a few days isn't a bad thing. Maybe that's naive.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
HighPlainsDrifter is right. Take your medicine and get it over with. Face it, people bought stuff they couldn't afford, and unscrupulous institutions helped them. They should face the consequences. I bet if someone loses their house, they think twice about the size of the next mortgage they apply for.
I'm inclined to agree.
I don't pretend to understand this. I'm trying. But I do resent and fear something be shoved down our throats so fast and the argument that there's no other option. Someone needs to really take a look at this.
Does anyone know who the Nay votes were? I can't find it anywhere.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:28:03 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
A real fix-but no one wants to hear this - raise tariffs to fund some of this junk, make business abroad as expensive as business in the U.S. and tax the heck out of everything that BEGINS to look like a luxury to encourage baseline consumption of necessities produced WITHIN American borders-get Americans working again and spending their paychecks on what they make and THAT will be the "better in the end". Unfortunately, no one will be the politician to stand up and tell the "average middle class American" that they can't have 3 Lexuses and a vacation house purchased on credit-it would be political suicide.
Raise tariffs? Are you familiar with the Smoot-Hawley Act?
Jhud is right - this one's been tried before. It didn't turn out very well.
In a different day and time in America my friend, in a different day and time.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:29:28 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2910
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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The mathematics on those equations though still hold. It was certainly a different day & time, and there were a host of other mistakes that were made which certainly made it worse, but there is no reason to think that this would work any differently today than back then.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:29:39 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
The repubs president sends this bill over, the dems try to work on it and it's their fault?
The repubs let this go on with its dereg everything, but its the dems fault?
Nancy didnt do this, I dont care what she says, she didnt make everyone greedy and break the rules, she diodnt tell Bush to let his buddies get richer.
Can we get past the finger pointing. It's not about which party is at fault anymore. They're both at fault.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:31:07 PM
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relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
(As a footnote, Pelosi's speech was stupid and ill-timed but not really that far outside the scope of what's been being said all through this crisis. She was doing a fair bit of baiting the Republicans, but shame on them for taking the bait. I'm not sure which side of the aisle was the more stupid.) And the voice of reason is injected once again. Thank you GroupW. This is ugly & gettin uglier. The thought that someone would refuse to vote for a bill because they don't like a speech is just...just...infantile.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:34:57 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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For those who voted nay, I don't think it had anything to do with a speech -- other than that of their constituents speaking loud and long.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:35:24 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2910
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
But they've been lending like drunken sailors for years. IMO, locking things down for a few days isn't a bad thing. Maybe that's naive.
We're not really talking about a few days here. We're talking about potentially a good number of months.
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/29/2008 4:41:06 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
The repubs president sends this bill over, the dems try to work on it and it's their fault?
The repubs let this go on with its dereg everything, but its the dems fault?
Nancy didnt do this, I dont care what she says, she didnt make everyone greedy and break the rules, she diodnt tell Bush to let his buddies get richer.
Tracy, first problem we are having all the way around is the blame game - doing something about the current crisis is much more important than trying to figure out who is to blame - something neither party seems to be able to get this through their thick skulls.
And the failure to regulate Fannie and Freddie is hardly something that can be blamed on the Republicans alone.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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