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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 1:40:38 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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I said:
quote:
Too many flipflops, which one is believeable?
The economy is fundamentally strong....
The liberals are just trying to scare everyone...
Gov't should be smaller..
Let the markets be free...
Welfare state....
It's just too confusing to people.
you said:
quote:
That sounds like you're confused. And then you advocated inaction. That sounded presumptuous.
Those are quotes from Republicans!
I don't advocate inaction, there's plenty to do.
Pray, read the Word, buy some more firewood and canned goods.
Spread the Word.
Which says Babylon is
f
a
l
l
i
n
g
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 2:07:27 AM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 692
Joined: 7/3/2008
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huangshan:
You can call people names in that phony-elitist way you have, but it doesn't change the fact that a majority of Congress, and apparently of polled citizens as well, realize the eventual long-term dangers of the bailout.
So you think that a socialist dictatorship can't be slowly legislated in one step at a time? Ostrich-ism is certainly your prerogative, but those of us who actually value liberty refuse to let the dems, RINOs, and other socialists with their heads in the sand make that choice for us.
Thankfully, your call for socialism is losing in Congress and among the public. And everyone, even you, will be better for it.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 9:40:07 AM
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rhippie
Posts: 628
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Banking failures create very deep and painful recessions. Such recessions are not necessary and can be avoided or moderated with some fairly harmless government interventions.
Yet the majority of people here want the government to stay out of it.
That's because most of us don't think there is any such thing as "fairly harmless government interventions".
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 9:43:06 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4976
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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I just wish this hadn't happened so close to an election. I'd like to know that they are voting what they truly think is best for the country, not just what they think will get them re-elected.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 9:44:04 AM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 692
Joined: 7/3/2008
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quote:
I just wish this hadn't happened so close to an election. I'd like to know that they are voting what they truly think is best for the country, not just what they think will get them re-elected.
I agree. Unfortunately, in most of their eyes, the two are the same thing.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 9:48:22 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4976
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
Unfortunately, in most of their eyes, the two are the same thing.
Not necessarily. I saw on the news last night where overwhelmingly the ones up for re-election voted against it, and the ones not up for re-election voted for it. The polls say most Americans are against it, and so they are afraid to vote for it.
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 11:18:27 AM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 272
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
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If this bill passes or continue fail, it will not make a difference to the ones it effects the most, the poor and middle class. As Christians we should rejoice and be thankful during these seasons of plenty, but now we need to be in prayer that God will sustain this country during this season of lack. Fear is not an option. I always knew that someday He would slowly pull His hand of prosperity and protection from this country due to the way we treat each other and the way we treat those abroad. Our government, the men and women, Republicans and Democrats that WE put in office are the ones responsible along with the greedy corporatist that pull their strings. I hope during this crises that it humbles all of us.
_____________________________
"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
True colors are being revealed
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 11:24:57 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Banking failures create very deep and painful recessions. Such recessions are not necessary and can be avoided or moderated with some fairly harmless government interventions.
Yet the majority of people here want the government to stay out of it.
That's because most of us don't think there is any such thing as "fairly harmless government interventions".
It's a nice little myth that makes people feel good, but it's a myth. I'm old enough to remember driving through Chicago before environmental regs were in place and getting violently ill from all the car fumes. It actually could make you sick. I remember when you couldn't fish in Lake Erie (the level of mercury & pcb's in Lake Michigan fish is so high you ought not eat it more than twice a month or so.)
I remember when Clear Creek here in Colorado had no fish in it all due to mining runoff.
FDIC insurance has kept bank's from being subject to irrational panic attacks of consumers. FDIC/FRB/OCC/OTS oversight has kept banks (mostly) from making the very stupid bets of earlier days. Laws against redlining have resulted in the poorest neighborhoods of Chicago having access to capital for redevelopment.
It's not intervention per se. It can't legitimately be said that there is NO intervention that can ever work. There is good intervention and bad intervention.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 11:48:25 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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At the moment I wish to know where the 1,4 Trillion that were on the markets went...it did not evaporated it went back to somewhere, hopefully as people become less scared they going to bring money back to the markets again..but I do understand times are uncertain and investers do need some sort of safety measures into place do again to business with everybody.
What I do find ridiculous is the blame game going on played by some politicans, as I do think real leadership takes responsability for their actions all the way. We do lack leadership in USA, unfortunatly.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 3:51:29 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3973
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
At the moment I wish to know where the 1,4 Trillion that were on the markets went...it did not evaporated it went back to somewhere, hopefully as people become less scared they going to bring money back to the markets again..but I do understand times are uncertain and investers do need some sort of safety measures into place do again to business with everybody.
What I do find ridiculous is the blame game going on played by some politicans, as I do think real leadership takes responsability for their actions all the way. We do lack leadership in USA, unfortunatly.
Unfortunately, neither Bush nor McCain have been able to take the GOP reins during this crisis. That gives the dems the upper hand by default.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 4:39:11 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2918
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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So let me see. The market is up how much?
Was that the sound of people buying bargains? I think it was.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 4:40:56 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 692
Joined: 7/3/2008
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quote:
Was that the sound of people buying bargains? I think it was.
I sprung for a few, just for fun and curiosity.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 4:41:13 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
This is marginally socialism. Mostly, it's an attempt to save the market economy. I suppose the desire for simple solutions and loyalty to an extreme ideology have hardened some people to the multifaceted reality that we're in, which is really unfortunate.
It's these failed attempts to save the market that got us to this point. The crash when we hit the ground is going to be painful enough at this point. I don't want to prolong it any further and have it be more painful. If we would have just taken our medicine in the late 90's things would have been a whole lot different and we probably wouldn't be here having this conversation.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 4:43:52 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2918
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
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There is nothing like the market making a correction to let us little guys buy some good stocks for a cheap price.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 4:54:59 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2918
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Having said that, there needs to be some sanity in what percentage of deposits on hand is required of the banks and how much they can borrow. Changing only that would help a great deal. Today the standard is way too low. It was this same principal of under capitalization that got us into the Great Depression.
Man, people who ignore the past are truly doomed to repeat it. Sadly, not enough of our leaders are even educated about the past much less making a decision based on it. That's what the dumbing down of America has brought us.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 5:34:29 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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To some degree, it's a question of banking regulation not keeping up with changes in the industry. We've had risk-based capital regulations for years, but the regs don't really account for some differences in risk very well. For example, if you own a AAA security there's only one risk based capital charge for it regardless of whether or not it's a subprime-based CDO or AAA corporate bond. Clearly, now, we know those two risks aren't the same.
The problem wasn't so much and undercapitalization vs. the risk that we thought we had. Rather, there was more risk in some of these things than people really were aware of.
To some degree, banking regs weren't keeping pace. The bigger problem though was a complete underestimation of the true risk.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 9/30/2008 10:07:09 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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aha!
The vote will start again tomorrow!
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 10/1/2008 6:21:05 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
The DOW down almost 800 points. Can we stand this if it happens tomorrow as well?
I guess we will never know since it didn't happen. Still no bailout but we almost recovered what was lost. Hmm, maybe if our investors weren't lemmings we would never have had the fall in the first place.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 10/1/2008 9:49:58 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
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Well ... the Senate just passed their version of the bill ... a 451 page document! I wonder how many actually read the bills before they vote.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 10/3/2008 6:23:09 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
Well ... the Senate just passed their version of the bill ... a 451 page document! I wonder how many actually read the bills before they vote.
And here is some of what it contains. Good idea all of you who want to trust our government to do what's right. Had to sweeten the deal to get it passed and we the people have to pay for it all, $700B + a few hundred million who'll notice (maybe even billion). Can't wait till the house gets it back and adds their sweetners to it. Can't wait to tell my grand kids how the great bail out of '08 ensured that the toy arrow makers of America got subsidies, think of the horror if they still had to pay that $0.39. Or how the bailout bill had the ever so economically relevant $192 million to rum growers because we all know there is a shortage of alcoholics.
Warren Buffett called the economy a great athlete that has had a cardiac arrest. I think the economy is a gluttonous couch potato that is artificially inflated and badly in need of a real correction, not to be braced up just to keep the artificially high housing prices up. It is going to hurt but these big institutions need to learn fiscal responsibility the way everyone else does, by taking their knocks and learning from them.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 10/3/2008 6:26:22 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 483
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
Well ... the Senate just passed their version of the bill ... a 451 page document! I wonder how many actually read the bills before they vote.
and this pearl from the bill
quote:
SEC. 135. PRESERVATION OF AUTHORITY.
4 With the exception of section 131, nothing in this Act
5 may be construed to limit the authority of the Secretary
6 or the Board under any other provision of law.
Now that is what I call oversight.
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 10/3/2008 11:17:49 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
Well ... the Senate just passed their version of the bill ... a 451 page document! I wonder how many actually read the bills before they vote.
and this pearl from the bill
quote:
SEC. 135. PRESERVATION OF AUTHORITY.
4 With the exception of section 131, nothing in this Act
5 may be construed to limit the authority of the Secretary
6 or the Board under any other provision of law.
Now that is what I call oversight.
JJP -
You're reading that section wrong. The wording of sec.135 here is that this bill is not to be construed such that EXISTING authorities of the Secretary & Board under EXISTING law remain unimpacted. It's just a good catch-all to make sure that the they have all legal authority after this bill as they did before.
Nothing bad there.
Edit: That's why the header is entitled "preservation of authority". In other words, no prior legitimate authority is being revoked, added or amended except as noted under section 131. Section 131 amends a prior authority to guarantee or insure money market mutual funds, hence the carveout there.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: House defeats the bailout bill!!! - 10/3/2008 12:31:51 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
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I have been listening to the house talks .... lot's of dissention still ... some stating they are only voting for it because they have no other choice ... some saying it would be better to allow the markets to adjust on their own w/out the governments intervention ...
looks like (at this point) it's too close to call.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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