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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 9/30/2008 8:33:46 PM
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litfire2000
Posts: 208
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline
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having worked some years ago for The Salvation Army, i can tell you that there are many, far too many children hungry and starving in this country. families sometimes "fall through the cracks" and it takes time for their true situation to be recognized and addressed. as for churches, i have also worked with a church that ministered to the homeless and others in need. the need is much greater than most realize. believe it or not, i have heard, with my own ears, people turned away from churches because "we just don't have resources for that sort of thing, there are agencies for that". NO, the resources are not "abundant", they are usually in need of assistance themselves just to be able to lend a hand to those in need. the government programs alone do not provide enough assistance in many cases, they are not designed to fully support those in need (nor should they be), they are designed to partially help those in need. If you want an education on hunger in America, volunteer for two months to help cook and serve meals at The Salvation Army kitchen. Much of what you see will disgust you, some will literally break your heart.
_____________________________
Ps. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 12:16:43 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
What is the connection with fighting the murder of 3500 unborn children here in the United States with people in Africa letting children starve... If you have passion for those starving I suggest you go to the source first... Berating folks here for what people do to each in other in Africa ignores the root problem, that being the people of Africa... I wouldn't look to Africa for the solution in regards to the murder of the unborn in the United States...
John, I made a comment that I wish people would have the passion for the children starving that they have for unborns being murdered.
It's all the same thing to me. If they die at -2 mos or +2 mos.
It means I'm pro-life, not just anti choice.
you talk alot about abortion, it is important to you.
God talks alot in the Bible about the poor, moreso than murder, it is important to HIM.
See the connection?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 3:38:59 AM
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tacitus
Posts: 283
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline
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Sorry, ljmac, but the longer and louder people like you rant on about Obama supporting infanticide, the less effective they will be in stopping people from voting for him. Obama has explained his position, and while you may not accept his explanation, most people do. In reality, his position on abortion is probably no different than the usual "pro-choice" stance the Democratic party holds.
I agree that this is just as unacceptable to you (so don't bother going off on yet another rant about it -- I will take it as read) but that wasn't what I was talking about in my previous post.
Currently less than 20% of American support the banning of all abortions. That number has been static for at least a decade, and probably a lot longer than that. Screaming at people at the top of your lungs that they are voting for live-baby-killers will not change their minds. Those who will listen are likely anti-abortion anyway, and the rest will simply think you're a raving loon. All I ever see in your posts is bitterness and hatred. Sure, you may have righteous anger driving you, but you need to channel it better before anyone will take you seriously.
Have a nice day 
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 3:47:37 AM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
My thoughts are that
(a) Anti-abortionists are overplaying the "Obama supports infanticide" claims. No matter how justified they think this claim is given Obama's votes in the Illinois legislature, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people who now thinking of voting for Obama believe that such claims are just outlandish. Only those who already oppose Obama on grounds of abortion will believe them and the end result is that such claims might even help insulate him from attacks by pro-life groups.
(b) DOMA isn't an issue in this election. McCain isn't at all energized by the issue of gay marriage and Obama's personal view on gay marriage isn't very different from McCain's anyway, so it's not likely to become an issue. Outside the Republican base, which is already backing McCain because he added Palin to the ticket, there is virtually no support for DOMA anyway.
I don't doubt your passion for these issues, but with economic woes taking all the headlines, this election will probably not be revolve around the social issues the religious right holds dear.
Obama argued that it was unconstitutional to provide life sustaining health care to a baby that survived an attempt on her life. In his sick mind, it is against the law to care for such a child. It's the BO entitlement program, you're entitled to a dead baby.
His gives two evil justifications.
1) She's not a baby. She's a fetus. (Fetus means target of extermination.)
2) The fetus is not viable. He assigns this determination to the baby killer who was paid to murder her.
BO is a sick man. It's not enough for him to have children torn apart limb from limb. It's not enough to disembowel them. It's not enough to stab them in the skull and suck their brains out. No, we also got to kill them if they somehow manage to escape the first attempt on their murder.
BO's death care plan
You are a conservative. No reasonable person expects a conservative person to vote for a liberal candidate. I don't understand why this is being so magnified in this election. I have never before heard people come out so hard against a candidate that they'd never vote for in the first place. Do your McCain/Palin thing. Why belabor the point? You don't agree with his views. We get it.
I don't want such a sick person leading America. He's not satisfied with dismembering babies. Nor with decapitating them. Nor with disemboweling them or sucking their brains out during birth. That's not enough. He wants to kill them after they're born.
You have one vote. Use it. Or will you feel like God has forsaken you if Obama wins the White House? Will you feel like all of a sudden God is no longer in control? Calm down. You can be as graphic as you want to be in your description. You still have one vote. All of the drama and histrionics aren't going to pursuade people who have made up their minds.
There is purpose in exposing brutality. As long as it remains hidden people will remain confortable with their ignorance. Does that describe you?
I'm very well read, thank you. I'm aware of my candidate's stance on this issue. I have and will vote Democratic. You have not revealed anything to me.
On the point of ignorance, though, do I fail in effectively communicating my ideas? Of course not. To suggest otherwise does speak volumes, though.
*And again, feel free to get back with more info on why you felt it necessary to address Obama's would-be grands as 'mixed race'*
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 4:11:37 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
Sorry, ljmac, but the longer and louder people like you rant on about Obama supporting infanticide, the less effective they will be in stopping people from voting for him. Obama has explained his position, and while you may not accept his explanation, most people do. In reality, his position on abortion is probably no different than the usual "pro-choice" stance the Democratic party holds.
I agree that this is just as unacceptable to you (so don't bother going off on yet another rant about it -- I will take it as read) but that wasn't what I was talking about in my previous post.
Currently less than 20% of American support the banning of all abortions. That number has been static for at least a decade, and probably a lot longer than that. Screaming at people at the top of your lungs that they are voting for live-baby-killers will not change their minds. Those who will listen are likely anti-abortion anyway, and the rest will simply think you're a raving loon. All I ever see in your posts is bitterness and hatred. Sure, you may have righteous anger driving you, but you need to channel it better before anyone will take you seriously.
Have a nice day
Obama has said that saving a born alive baby intended to be aborted is unconstitutional. Don't take my word, read it for yourself. I've provided the link before.
I don't scream, but apparently my clear and precise language is uncomfortable for you. Like the defenders of slavery, you'd prefer that it not be spoken of. Maybe your participation in such brutality is getting to you.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 4:22:31 AM
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jadab
Posts: 99
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
Sorry, ljmac, but the longer and louder people like you rant on about Obama supporting infanticide, the less effective they will be in stopping people from voting for him. Obama has explained his position, and while you may not accept his explanation, most people do. In reality, his position on abortion is probably no different than the usual "pro-choice" stance the Democratic party holds.
I agree that this is just as unacceptable to you (so don't bother going off on yet another rant about it -- I will take it as read) but that wasn't what I was talking about in my previous post.
Currently less than 20% of American support the banning of all abortions. That number has been static for at least a decade, and probably a lot longer than that. Screaming at people at the top of your lungs that they are voting for live-baby-killers will not change their minds. Those who will listen are likely anti-abortion anyway, and the rest will simply think you're a raving loon. All I ever see in your posts is bitterness and hatred. Sure, you may have righteous anger driving you, but you need to channel it better before anyone will take you seriously.
Have a nice day
Obama has said that saving a born alive baby intended to be aborted is unconstitutional. Don't take my word, read it for yourself. I've provided the link before.
I don't scream, but apparently my clear and precise language is uncomfortable for you. Like the defenders of slavery, you'd prefer that it not be spoken of. Maybe your participation in such brutality is getting to you.
There's a difference between being uncomfortable and being exasperated. You won't change any minds. Here's the challenge:
Abortions are results of pregnancies.
Pregnancies are the result of (mostly) unprotected sex.
There are other consequences of unprotected sex, such as HIV/AIDS, self-esteem/emotional issues, etc.
WHAT WILL YOU DO TO HELP ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE INFORMED ABOUT HOW IRRESPONSIBLE SEXUAL PRACTICES CAN ULTIMATELY HARM OR KILL THEM?
Let's talk about making it so that it doesn't get to that stage. Abortion is but a symptom of a larger problem. Cavalier attitudes about sex and the lack of proper and accurate resources for teens (and adults) who are considering sexual activity.
I would prefer that no one died as a result of a careless sexual encounter. The problem does not only affect unborn children.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 7:34:15 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2337
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000
having worked some years ago for The Salvation Army, i can tell you that there are many, far too many children hungry and starving in this country. families sometimes "fall through the cracks" and it takes time for their true situation to be recognized and addressed. as for churches, i have also worked with a church that ministered to the homeless and others in need. the need is much greater than most realize. believe it or not, i have heard, with my own ears, people turned away from churches because "we just don't have resources for that sort of thing, there are agencies for that". NO, the resources are not "abundant", they are usually in need of assistance themselves just to be able to lend a hand to those in need. the government programs alone do not provide enough assistance in many cases, they are not designed to fully support those in need (nor should they be), they are designed to partially help those in need. If you want an education on hunger in America, volunteer for two months to help cook and serve meals at The Salvation Army kitchen. Much of what you see will disgust you, some will literally break your heart.
I have worked in social services as a case manager and worked with Second Harvest through my church. There are resources out there for families in need. Again if a child is starving nearly to death then there is neglect on the part of the family. WIC is not dependent on income but health with eligibility for pregnant and nursing women and children to age 5. After age 5 children can eat two meals per day in school and many areas have summer feeding programs for free or reduced rates. I can't tell you how many families and individuals could have had enough money for groceries if the parents would have kicked their smoking habit. Also many people don't want to sacrifice their wants to meet their needs.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 10:20:01 AM
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relady
Posts: 1287
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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I find it interesting that you ignored the opening of the article which states that overall "Gallup's long history of polling on abortion finds some evidence that Americans are sympathetic to the pro-choice side, with the majority (58%) saying abortion laws should remain as they are or be loosened, rather than tightened." In general, most of the public is in favor of abortion laws remaining as they are rather than continuing to be tightened. Many of us who consider ourselves pro-choice have no problem with restrictions and regulations after the first trimester as long as they are reasonable and allow for the health and life of the mother.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 10:26:27 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
What is the connection with fighting the murder of 3500 unborn children here in the United States with people in Africa letting children starve... If you have passion for those starving I suggest you go to the source first... Berating folks here for what people do to each in other in Africa ignores the root problem, that being the people of Africa... I wouldn't look to Africa for the solution in regards to the murder of the unborn in the United States...
John, I made a comment that I wish people would have the passion for the children starving that they have for unborns being murdered.
It's all the same thing to me. If they die at -2 mos or +2 mos.
It means I'm pro-life, not just anti choice.
you talk alot about abortion, it is important to you.
God talks alot in the Bible about the poor, moreso than murder, it is important to HIM.
See the connection?
Again, if starving children in Africa is your cause I suggest you stop ignoring the root of the problem, that being the people in Africa... You speak of others passion but from what I can tell you are not on the ground in Africa feeding starving children regardless of the your mention of God talking so much about the poor. Speaking of abortion on threads relating to abortion doesn't automatically equate to a lack of passion in other areas as you seem to suggest.
I am guessing here, but I will go out on a limb and say more people in the United States are doing more for starving children in Africa than people in Africa... If you wanna feed children in many places I suggest you take a course in combat training in order to insure that food and medicine that has be graciously given to people can make it to those who need it... What is your level of commitment?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 10:35:33 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jadab
Abortions are results of pregnancies.
The murder of the unborn is a result of the lack of regard for God and His creation....
quote:
WHAT WILL YOU DO TO HELP ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE INFORMED ABOUT HOW IRRESPONSIBLE SEXUAL PRACTICES CAN ULTIMATELY HARM OR KILL THEM?
How stupid do you really believe these people are given your statement?
quote:
Let's talk about making it so that it doesn't get to that stage. Abortion is but a symptom of a larger problem. Cavalier attitudes about sex and the lack of proper and accurate resources for teens (and adults) who are considering sexual activity.
Given the "left's" view of sex I can't help but wonder from where you are suggesting this take place?
quote:
I would prefer that no one died as a result of a careless sexual encounter. The problem does not only affect unborn children.
If one didn't prefer anyone to die they wouldn't vote for those who gain and maintain a position of power ordained by God to deal with evil and not to sanction it...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 10:37:14 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
I find it interesting that you ignored the opening of the article which states that overall "Gallup's long history of polling on abortion finds some evidence that Americans are sympathetic to the pro-choice side, with the majority (58%) saying abortion laws should remain as they are or be loosened, rather than tightened." In general, most of the public is in favor of abortion laws remaining as they are rather than continuing to be tightened. Many of us who consider ourselves pro-choice have no problem with restrictions and regulations after the first trimester as long as they are reasonable and allow for the health and life of the mother.
That doesn't do much for the 3500 murdered daily otherwise...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 10:54:22 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 811
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
Currently less than 20% of American support the banning of all abortions. That number has been static for at least a decade, and probably a lot longer than that.
That percentage (if it is even factual) is irrelevant and meaninless to any point that was made here.
Unless you would like to explain it's relevance.
This however is because it confronts Obama's abortion on demand stance:
Zoby online states:
Sixty-six percent said their views on abortion restrictions were the same as they were five or ten years ago. Since polls have consistently shown considerable support for laws such as parental notification, informed consent, and unborn victims legislation, the Zogby poll confirms Americans are moving in the direction of ensuring that sensible limits are placed on legalized abortion.
Other recent polls also confirm a majority of Americans have a pro-life perspective.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 12:40:38 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1378
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
I find it interesting that you ignored the opening of the article which states that overall "Gallup's long history of polling on abortion finds some evidence that Americans are sympathetic to the pro-choice side, with the majority (58%) saying abortion laws should remain as they are or be loosened, rather than tightened." In general, most of the public is in favor of abortion laws remaining as they are rather than continuing to be tightened. Many of us who consider ourselves pro-choice have no problem with restrictions and regulations after the first trimester as long as they are reasonable and allow for the health and life of the mother.
Imagine: Gallup's long history of polling on slavery finds some evidence that Americans are sympathetic to the pro-choice side, with the majority (58%) saying slavery laws should remain as they are or be loosened, rather than tightened.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 10:51:42 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Again, if starving children in Africa is your cause I suggest you stop ignoring the root of the problem, that being the people in Africa...
Where is the root?
Adam and Eve.
quote:
You speak of others passion but from what I can tell you are not on the ground in Africa feeding starving children regardless of the your mention of God talking so much about the poor.
So to follow this verse, I must be on the ground in Africa?
Pro 31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
quote:
I am guessing here, but I will go out on a limb and say more people in the United States are doing more for starving children in Africa than people in Africa... If you wanna feed children in many places I suggest you take a course in combat training in order to insure that food and medicine that has be graciously given to people can make it to those who need it... What is your level of commitment?
Uneducated guess. Americans have more money which they send 0.4 of the GDP. Peanuts. African of course DO MORE, read some of the miracles being performed in AFrica with little resources.
Graciously? RMBAOTF. LOL....
That was funny.
Did you know that transmission of AIDs from an pregnant mother to an unborn is almost gone, especially here in America. The drug companies won't give the mothers in poor countries the drug.
Take an educated guess how many unborns are dead or born with AIDS because of this?
Ask yourself again what is your level of commitment to unborns.
Can they get an angry email to the drug companies?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/1/2008 11:40:13 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Where is the root?
Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve are not the reason children are starving in Africa... The people in Africa are the root cause...
quote:
So to follow this verse, I must be on the ground in Africa?
What happened to the 100's of verses???
quote:
Uneducated guess. Americans have more money which they send 0.4 of the GDP. Peanuts. African of course DO MORE, read some of the miracles being performed in AFrica with little resources.
The Aid to Africa from the US Gov is in the billions annually and recently there was a 34 billion outlay... In 2005 alone, Americans donated more than $95 billion to the developing world... Hardly peanuts... Some Africans are doing MORE with the money sent them, more for themselves and not for the needy...
quote:
Did you know that transmission of AIDs from an pregnant mother to an unborn is almost gone, especially here in America. The drug companies won't give the mothers in poor countries the drug.
Maybe you should go to Africa and figure out why the billions sent there doesn't reach those who need it...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Obama on life and marriage - 10/2/2008 5:36:32 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Adam and Eve are not the reason children are starving in Africa... The people in Africa are the root cause...
If your disagreeing about aFrica, The white people from America that stole people, gold, diamonds, rubber, and oil are the root cause.
since Adam and Eve were Black, I was saying the the fallen sin of man.
quote:
What happened to the 100's of verses???
John, John, you don't know where they are in the Bible? You've missed the whole Bible then.
quote:
The Aid to Africa from the US Gov is in the billions annually and recently there was a 34 billion outlay... In 2005 alone, Americans donated more than $95 billion to the developing world... Hardly peanuts... Some Africans are doing MORE with the money sent them, more for themselves and not for the needy...
Anything to back that up. A link?
quote:
Maybe you should go to Africa and figure out why the billions sent there doesn't reach those who need it...
Ahh... the ole go back to AFrica.
So no you don't help the unborns there. It is only for Americans(and only some of those) and your level of commitment is some angry words on a forum.
OK. I thought as much.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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