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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 12:04:19 PM
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scottishmomma46
Posts: 178
Joined: 4/7/2006
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well then no problem then if you were not talking to me then if i comment on this again sometime you wont be upset? aweome.
_____________________________
faith is just not something you talk about......faith is something you do.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 12:31:13 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4468
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
We recently had a pregnant (by her pimp) prostitute (with a prior to getting pregnant heroin habit) start coming to our church and our church reached out to her by supplying her with everything she needed for those babies. We counseled her about what it means to repent and to accept and walk with the Lord, but our help was not contingent on whether or not she did that. That's just the way our church operates. Of course getting her saved is a priority, but we saw her need and we met it as we feel God has called us to do.
I give your church stars!!!
quote:
I don't think because this girl has sinned and hasn't accepted the Lord, that negates (what I feel is) the church's duty to fulfill it's charge to help the needy by helping her. Again, maybe not a shower at the church, but in some way. It was the women's attitude towards this girl that I felt was offensive and ungodly.
I agree with you, Kat.
I haven't read all of the thread, but I did wonder why the women were so unwilling to help this young woman. If this young woman had an "attitude", and was looking for a church who would throw her the "shower of her dreams" (we live in such a materialistic culture  ), then that might explain why the women were reluctant. The young woman went to the next church to have her shower--I wonder if she knew anyone in that church.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 1:34:26 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
if i comment on this again sometime you wont be upset?
Why would I be upset? I don't own this thread or site. Some funny ideas........I am free to comment too! 
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 1:44:54 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Hey, if you think I'm tough.....wait till Judgement Day! 
I might think you are a lot of things...tough is not one of them 
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
It's about a 16 year old pregnant girl whose needs were not met at the OP's church because of a bunch of petty, judgemental women, remember?
And Kat is right...the topic is really not about a shower at a church, but the hard heartedness of the women at the church in response to this girl.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 1:54:56 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1781
Joined: 5/23/2006
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quote:
And Kat is right...the topic is really not about a shower at a church, but the hard heartedness of the women at the church in response to this girl.
_____________________________
that same girl was at church for youth group so had AMPLE opportunity for accepting Christ week after week if she wanted Him.
Why blame her salvation on some women who chose not to have a shower for her? Is that excuse gonna fly for her in judgment?
You can't have it both ways and using those women as an excuse why that girl doesn't have salvation is not valid imo. She could have just as much Christ as she chose to have with or WITHOUT a baby shower.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 2:01:18 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
And Kat is right...the topic is really not about a shower at a church, but the hard heartedness of the women at the church in response to this girl.
Now see, I really don't think so. I don't know how hard their hearts are or were. But, I still think a home would have been the appropriate place.
And, I do think the church building itself should stand for something...because that is how many people view it. I mean (and I say this again) doesn't it matter that the women did not want it in the church? Have they no say? Maybe they just felt like I do. See, we don't really know all the circumstances. I have followed this thread since the opening of it, and I don't think it's fair to call people we don't even know hard hearted or say that the girl in question was hurt. We don't know those things for facts.
Yes, the church is a building......but still not the place to say "hey ... sinners come in and do your thing. We luv ya anyway." A home, a home, a home....would have been appropriate....ESPECIALLY since it was such a small congregation. 
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 2:22:40 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2369
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
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quote:
I don't think it's fair to call people we don't even know hard hearted or say that the girl in question was hurt. We don't know those things for facts.
Just like we don't know for a fact the young girl isn't saved.
I haven't seen any posts where anyone has asked her that question.
(Maybe I overlooked it?)
_____________________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 2:32:54 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
I don't think it's fair to call people we don't even know hard hearted or say that the girl in question was hurt. We don't know those things for facts.
Just like we don't know for a fact the young girl isn't saved.
I haven't seen any posts where anyone has asked her that question.
(Maybe I overlooked it?)
Well, I had to go back to the early years, but, POST 25, by the OP said:
quote:
I can't make her repent. I have talked to her (very bluntly in fact) about repentance.
'Cause if she would have accepted Christ, or at least showed some concept of what she had done? I would be on having the shower in church. There are actually several posts in which it was determined (from people questionning) that she refused salvation. For all we know, she has since been saved, but for all intents and purposes, for the veracity of this discussion, the girl said "no". Thanks
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 2:34:41 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
And Kat is right...the topic is really not about a shower at a church, but the hard heartedness of the women at the church in response to this girl.
_____________________________
that same girl was at church for youth group so had AMPLE opportunity for accepting Christ week after week if she wanted Him.
Why blame her salvation on some women who chose not to have a shower for her? Is that excuse gonna fly for her in judgment?
You can't have it both ways and using those women as an excuse why that girl doesn't have salvation is not valid imo. She could have just as much Christ as she chose to have with or WITHOUT a baby shower.
are you kidding me?  I'm not blaming these women for anything other than their lack of compassion for this girl, ESPECIALLY in a culture where Christians are in the habit of condemning abortion (and rightly so) but then don't want anything to do with helping the girls who DON'T choose abortion.
I believe the concern over her salvation was raised when it comes to hosting something for a non-believer within the confines of the church building.
I could care less where they have a shower or even if they have a shower - that's not the part of the conversation I'm contributing to...but who is ministering to this girl now? In any capacity? aside from her pregnancy? has any of these "older" women reached out to her, etc.
Was she turned out to go elsewhere because of convenience or righteousness?
_____________________________
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 2:40:54 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3144
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
I don't think it's fair to call people we don't even know hard hearted or say that the girl in question was hurt. We don't know those things for facts.
Just like we don't know for a fact the young girl isn't saved.
I haven't seen any posts where anyone has asked her that question.
(Maybe I overlooked it?)
Kimmie, this is what the Op said in his first post:
quote:
Youth group girl. Long time attender. Not a member. Not saved.
She just graduated and is pregnant. She is not married and is not getting married to the father. (good thing, he is bad news)
She could have accepted the Lord since...we have no way of knowing; only God knows her heart.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 3:07:37 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
She could have accepted the Lord since...we have no way of knowing; only God knows her heart.
Kat_D, I think we can agee in the hope that she has accepted Christ since the OP was posted 3 weeks ago, or maybe this afternoon, or this evening, or prayerfully tomorrow or....
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 4:10:40 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3144
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
She could have accepted the Lord since...we have no way of knowing; only God knows her heart.
Kat_D, I think we can agee in the hope that she has accepted Christ since the OP was posted 3 weeks ago, or maybe this afternoon, or this evening, or prayerfully tomorrow or....
Thanks
RC
I will most certainly agree with that hope, RC, and have prayed accordingly...she surely needs the Lord above all other things.
Thanks for being you...you are appreciated!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 6:03:21 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2369
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
Status: offline
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Thanks solar and Kat.
I guess where I'm going with my questioning of her salvation is that we really don't know another persons heart.
Just because she may not have gone forward at an altar call and "was saved" that way, doesn't mean she didn't repent and seek Jesus in her own home (or anywhere else).
And I go back to my earlier post too.
IF she is not saved, then I don't understand how the ladies of that church could dare tell her how disappointed in her they are, as we are NOT to judge those outside the body.
I too am not concerned anymore about the baby shower being at the church or at a home somewhere, I am concerned about the apparent lack of concern over this young girl by the women at this church.
I am curious now to know if she is still attending this church or goes elsewhere.
_____________________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 6:12:58 PM
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scottishmomma46
Posts: 178
Joined: 4/7/2006
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maybe these women that are at this church, they trully know the love of Jesus!! the way Jesus is is the way we are suppose to be. we are to show love and understanding.
_____________________________
faith is just not something you talk about......faith is something you do.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 6:22:45 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6963
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: scottishmomma46
maybe these women that are at this church, they trully know the love of Jesus!! the way Jesus is is the way we are suppose to be. we are to show love and understanding.
Do we show that love and understanding by holding a baby shower at the church or by helping her out in some other way?
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 6:45:37 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't understand how the ladies of that church could dare tell her how disappointed in her they are,
I don't believe anyone said such a thing to her....the OP was the one who actually spoke with her....not the ladies. Perhaps you want to draw attention to what you feel was not done rather than what you think was done?
Again, lack of concern may be perception rather than fact in this thread.
Well, that's it for me. The facts were simple and not embellished. It's just not that way anymore. Thanks  Another thread...........
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 7:09:08 PM
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myka
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't believe anyone said such a thing to her....the OP was the one who actually spoke with her....not the ladies.
You don't believe the simple unembellished facts that were presented... hmm, okay.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/13/2008 7:12:27 PM
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myka
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
In both of the quoted verses, Paul was addressing churches, bodies of believers, concerning believers who were continuing in sinful lifestyles after belief. There is nothing about casting out unbelievers who sin...
Of course he was because Church is for Christians (Christians not walking in sin) ;that is my point.
Thanks
RC
So, you don't ever have non-believers at your church?
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/14/2008 9:18:41 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
So, you don't ever have non-believers at your church?
Occasionally we have unbelievers stop by to visit, but most new folks have been led to the Lord by one or another of the members and then brought into the Church to grow and to learn.
Bottom line for me on this thread is that there are a lot of ways to help someone who need help, but using the Chruch to throw a party for a lost unrepentant fornicator is just not one of them. Having such at the Church would be a function of the Church and therefore it would not be accectable.
The way I see it is that having a party for such puts a seal of approval and acceptance of the sin, and that is not a good thing. And this will only delay or possibly block the young lady from accepting Christ. She has got to understand the Chriatianity does not condone nor accept sin.
As I have said over and over; if the young lady was repent and accepted Jesus them it would be a total different situation.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/14/2008 10:15:42 AM
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Mark328
Posts: 179
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
So, you don't ever have non-believers at your church?
Occasionally we have unbelievers stop by to visit, but most new folks have been led to the Lord by one or another of the members and then brought into the Church to grow and to learn.
Bottom line for me on this thread is that there are a lot of ways to help someone who need help, but using the Chruch to throw a party for a lost unrepentant fornicator is just not one of them. Having such at the Church would be a function of the Church and therefore it would not be accectable.
The way I see it is that having a party for such puts a seal of approval and acceptance of the sin, and that is not a good thing. And this will only delay or possibly block the young lady from accepting Christ. She has got to understand the Chriatianity does not condone nor accept sin.
As I have said over and over; if the young lady was repent and accepted Jesus them it would be a total different situation.
Thanks
RC
Wow, way to help out someone who didn't choose to have an abortion. She's not having an abortion, so now you condemn her for fornication. No win situation for her in your eyes. No wonders people see Christians as hypocrites.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/14/2008 10:36:45 AM
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ffbruce
Posts: 271
Joined: 10/14/2008
Status: offline
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You can tell a lot about a church (and its future) by whether they receive a sinner as the father, or the older brother, in the Parable of the Prodigal Son.
Unwed pregnant teenagers is, and will be, a fact of life that every church has to deal with. I wish it were not so, but it is. And how we deal with their pregnancies will have everything to do with whether or not we will have the opportunity for further ministry to them. Loving a pregnant girl is not the same as condoning what she and her boyfriend did.
Also, let's not kid ourselves into thinking that all the old white-haired folks at our churches were always pure as the driven snow.
This girl needs to be loved into the Kingdom. Her baby needs to be loved into the Kingdom. Where the baby shower is held is irrelevant. It's the spirit of compassion and holiness that will make the difference.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/14/2008 10:48:00 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Wow, way to help out someone who didn't choose to have an abortion. She's not having an abortion, so now you condemn her for fornication. No win situation for her in your eyes. No wonders people see Christians as hypocrites.
She condemned herself through sin and being unrepentant and remaining unsaved. Scripture is very plain about that;
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Now I have never saind not to help the young woman, but just do not use an officail Church function to do so. Having a party is not 'Help". If she does not have a place to live one of the families can take her in. Others of the Christians can help with medical bills, etc. I am sure that the Chruch has a benvolence fund to help. Witness to her, love on her, but do not use the Church to celebrate the sin.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/14/2008 11:14:56 AM
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Mark328
Posts: 179
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
She condemned herself through sin and being unrepentant and remaining unsaved. Scripture is very plain about that;
And you've taken it upon yourself to condemn her even further. Are you without sin? As Jesus states, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
From your posts, there is nothing that this girl could ever do right in your eyes.
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