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Reality check - 9/30/2008 1:46:02 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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I need a reality check with my teenager. He has always been a good boy but I now understand why they say at 13 put them in a barrel and cut a hole for food and at 16 cover the hole! Jack is 16! That boy does not think. He gets permission to go one place but then gets bored and goes somewhere else without asking. OY! I tell him to put his clothes away but where are they this morning? On the floor in a heap! His favorite phrase is MOM spoken in a tone that says I know more then you. I am still considering a grounding for the clothes all over the floor. I did tell him to put them away and he did not.
I want my likable son back. I am tired of this moody teenager. I know so now start the reality check that says quit whining!
_____________________________
<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 3:30:38 PM
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garsyt
Posts: 2235
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From: the bottom of the laundry basket
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My 14 year old son also leaves his clothes laying on the floor or wherever in his room too. I've given up. I now tell him that I do NOT rewash folded laundry and that if something makes the laundry hamper that I KNOW shouldn't be there (as in it is STILL folded or mated) then he will at that point be washing his own laundry. Whining is allowed from time to time! I understand, I've been there.
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 3:54:55 PM
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kohls356
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My oldest is 18 and her room was horrible. You couldn't walk in there because of the clothes on her floor. I just knew she would be a slob for life. I stopped fighting because in the end it was her room and her clothes. I just said that once it starts creeping in my space then I will take care of it.
She is now living in a dorm that is neat as a pin. When she comes home and does her laundry she folds everything and puts it away neatly in her basket. I was in shock.
I did tell mine that if they were at one place and left to go somewhere else they had to check in. If they forgot then I helped remind them by not allowing them go somewhere they wanted to the next time. They usually learned to remember pretty quickly.
This is the time for teens to want independance and make their own decisions and choices on some things. It is normal and healthy for them to do so. With all the things that teens can be doing I had to learn to just let go of the little things. In my house clothing and messy rooms were little things. The more we let go of little things the more our kids have respected our decisions on the bigger things.
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 4:43:10 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 895
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Thanks for the advise. Parenting a teenager can be so frustrating. I really really with I could just turn him back to my cute cuddly nine year old.
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<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 5:10:31 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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From: WA
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quote:
If they forgot then I helped remind them by not allowing them go somewhere they wanted to the next time
I love how you put that. I would do the same thing.
For clothes, I wouldn't interfere. If he doesn't put them away he'll find he has nothing to wear. Some boys will be happy with that. Some will not. Either way you won't have to stress about it.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 6:18:37 PM
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shadowspring
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I ignore the room and the clothes until I can smell it from the hallway/see that the clothes are dirty. 
Then he just can't go anywhere until the room is clean and the laundry is at least organized in the laundry room and the first load is started. This is all stated matter-of-fact, no frustration, whining or yelling on either part.
Oh, and they have been responsible for their own laundry since age 12.
I don't have any trouble with this. It is amazing how fast my son can clean when the spotlight is on the issue. 
Follow through is the most important part of parenting my teen. Since I am an out-of-sight, out-of-mind person, I don't issue commands unless I intend to stay on top of it until it's done.
So if I am requesting he put his clothes away, and the next day late I find out he hasn't, he says he forgot, well guess what, I forgot too! No punishment because it was not a command.
If I command it done (not "will you do this?" but "Do this now please.") I always make sure I am willing to follow through right then. It's more work, but less arguing and unhappiness all around.
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 6:57:15 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3118
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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From the time they were five, my daughters were told that if they wanted to do something fun on Saturday afternoon, then their room had to be cleaned by then. By the time they were 5 1/2, it had become a habit and they just automatically cleaned it with no prodding by us...and, they continued to do it until they left home.
From the time they were very tiny, they were taught that it was not acceptable for them to speak to me or their Dad disrespectfully. Consequently, they rarely did, and on the rare occasion that they did, they were punished for it.
*rant on*
Seriously, I just don't get it when people say their kids leave their rooms like pig sty's or that they tell their parents that they hate them or to shut-up, or worse. Who is running the show anyway?
I think it all started when parents were mistakenly informed that they should or could be their kid's "friend." Not in our house. I was the Mother and my husband was the Father, and as such, we expected ouir kids to do what we said when we said it with no back talk. They also were expected to show us the respect we deserved as their parents..and surprise, surprise, they complied. It ain't rocket science!
Oh, and in case someone thinks we beat them or something, I can count on one hand the number of spankings we gave our kids. They just respected us and still do.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 7:42:33 PM
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Sideways
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I do think some folks (not pointing at Kat) think that stricter parent means better parent, and that's not necessarily true. Just because one parent is ok with the kids' rooms being messy and one is not, does not mean that the messy room kids don't respect their parents.
I am probably more lenient on my toddler then some here, but I've got to parent according to what I think is right, and others can form their own opinions. For example, my dH and I are ok with some toy clutter. We're not as cool about dirt and grime, but a few mega blocks on the rug just don't bother us. But we are working on Nathan pitching in when it's time to clean up (and he usually does).
Other things like pushing another child on the playground are dealt with strongly and every single time. But we're just not that bothered by a little clutter, and I don't think that means our child will disrespect us or walk all over us.
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This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 7:50:12 PM
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kohls356
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Some people just have different battles they choose to fight, clothes on the floor wasn't one of mine.
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 8:01:40 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3118
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
Well Kat, I am sure that your house cleaning standards and mine are very different.
I really don't care about my son's room that much. Apparently cleanliness is very important to you.
If it was as important to me as it is to you, no doubt my children would have been raised with a weekly cleaning schedule their whole lives too!
Honestly, I could not stand to be in family that placed such importance on outward appearances. It just is not in my nature. I am an inner space person. I can sit and talk, read and pray for hours and not even notice what's not in front of my face. What's in the other room is completely off my mind.
More than being about appearances, it was about teaching them to respect the things their Dad worked hard to get them (clothing, toys, bedroom furniture, etc.) It was also about teaching them how to be able to live properly outside of our care so that when they moved in with roommates they wouldn't get kicked out for being slovenly and they'd know how to properly care for their own homes when they got married.
quote:
I won't take offense at your rant, but do please understand that you are neither a better person, better Christian nor a better parent because you insist your children's rooms are clean every Saturday
I'm sorry that is how you feel because I didn't say that I was better, did I? That is what you defensively read into what I said.
quote:
And apparently I am not the only one, because as I was walking through the hallway of the guy's dorm last week at the local university, it smelled a lot like dirty socks.
That, in and of itself, doesn't make it right, does it?
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 8:53:45 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3613
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Seriously, I just don't get it when people say their kids leave their rooms like pig sty's or that they tell their parents that they hate them or to shut-up, or worse. Who is running the show anyway?
You did seem to connect keeping one's room clean with being respectful to your parents. I know you didn't make a direct connection to the two, but from your post, Shadowspring's comment about you not being a better parent because you insist on clean rooms - wasn't a terribly long leap and not being that overly defensive either.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Reality check - 9/30/2008 11:59:24 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 895
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quote:
More than being about appearances, it was about teaching them to respect the things their Dad worked hard to get them (clothing, toys, bedroom furniture, etc.) It was also about teaching them how to be able to live properly outside of our care so that when they moved in with roommates they wouldn't get kicked out for being slovenly and they'd know how to properly care for their own homes when they got married.
I have a few of my close friends that are very neat and tidy who have made their kids keep their rooms neat and tidy. Their kids are grown and the worst pigs I have seen. Every one of them have at least one kid who is a pig. I do not mean a little pile of dirty laundry or a sink full of dishes. I mean months of trash and clothes on the floor not to mention the kitty box. I went by one girls house who is a daughter of one of my tidy friends. I nearly lost my lunch by the smell alone. She had made paths in her house. I thought my house was bad when there were toys left out on the floor but that was disgusting. Her mom used to be neater then I am. So do not think that just because you make them clean every week that it will stick with them.
My friend also told me once that she bought into the lie that if you do everything just right your kids will turn out great. It is not true. My dear friend learned the hard way that you can do everything right and still have your kids turn away from God.
_____________________________
<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 1:11:15 AM
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Zhi
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quote:
From the time they were five, my daughters were told that if they wanted to do something fun on Saturday afternoon, then their room had to be cleaned by then. By the time they were 5 1/2, it had become a habit and they just automatically cleaned it with no prodding by us...and, they continued to do it until they left home.
>.> <.< Mom? Is that YOU?!
Seriously though, my parents had near-military discipline on a lot of things, but in the long run it's really useful for a healthy attitude on things as an adult. We cleaned our rooms plus one other assigned room every Saturday because that's just what you do on Saturday, it's your duty. We did our nightly chores (cleaning up after dinner, taking care of the animals on the farm, etc) because that's just what you do, everybody's doing their chores, it's just your duty. But, compared to my husband, who did chores (even simple ones like washing dishes) as punishment for being bad, it's a much better attitude... it's taken us years for him to get over the "being asked/told to do chores means I'm in trouble and I'm being punished" resentment thing.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 7:02:03 AM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 3809
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From: The EMPIRE state!
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quote:
He gets permission to go one place but then gets bored and goes somewhere else without asking. OY! I tell him to put his clothes away but where are they this morning? On the floor in a heap! His favorite phrase is MOM spoken in a tone that says I know more then you. I am still considering a grounding for the clothes all over the floor. I did tell him to put them away and he did not.
These are important things in our home. Yes, they are getting older, but they still have to show common courtesy to the rest of the members of our home. Keeping your room clean is important to the health, safety, and senses of the rest of the family. It is also teaching them to be good stewards of the time and things that God has blessed them with. These are important things to learn.
Calling if there is a change in plans is also common courtesy. My husband always calls me if he is going to be late or whatever. He is checking on us to see what is going on at home so he can see if it really is a good time or choice to have a change of plans. I do the same thing. Also we try to always have a phone with us in case something should come up whether it is an emergency or that we should pick up a gallon of milk.
I would sit down and have him tell me what his goals for his life are. I would add to that what my goals are for him for the next 5 years. I would talk about how everything that we ask of them helps them achieve not only our goals, but also their goals as well. That is where I usually start in dealing with this sort of thing.
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Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 7:11:59 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
We cleaned our rooms plus one other assigned room every Saturday because that's just what you do on Saturday, it's your duty. We did our nightly chores (cleaning up after dinner, taking care of the animals on the farm, etc) because that's just what you do,
Oh yeah, we had Saturday chores, too, and I can remember my dad holding "inspections" of our room from time to time. I think daily and weekly chores are a very good thing. My dH came from a very laid-back, relaxed family. He didn't have to worry much about chores or keeping anything clean, and as a teen he pretty much went where he wanted, when he wanted.
Funny thing is, my inlaws are extremely loving, dedicated parents. They just had different ideas about how to do things. But I've nearly made some extremely rude comments to them about their parenting style. For instance, they've said about teenagers "They're gonna do what they're gonna do, and there's nothing you can do to stop them." I fired back that such an idea was a cop out for people who didn't feel like the tough job of parenting. (Of course, I've never raised teenagers, so what do I know.)
Greg and I probably won't be like either of our sets of parents, and that's fine. We'll make our own set of mistakes. 
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This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 8:16:38 AM
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Sadey
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I believe with all my heart that there is a neatness gene and some of us have it and some don't. My mother was neat and tidy. I struggle with it, want to be, but its hard for me. I have 2 daughters, one so much like my mom and the other like me. My son was like me but married a very organized woman who helped him. So he is much better.
There is a difference between dirt and clutter. I hate dirt and don't love clutter but clutter loves me. In fact last night I was cleaning my kitchen up and thought why is it so hard for me to keep my kitchen clean. Well its because I'm so messy to begin with. My mother certainly tried to train me I still hear her voice. If you would just put things where they belong and pick up after yourself. So I can't even blame my mom. Its all me.
So here are some helpful hints for those who battle clutter and are trying to get their kids to pick up. Leave your vacumn out, it looks like you just vacumned or are getting ready to. Get a leaf rake and rake up the toys into a pile. Then if you have to pick them up its easier, or just leave the pile for the kids. Its also fluffs your carpet. Well thats all I've got.
But I will say I sure enjoyed my kids and they are grown with families of their own and still like their dad and I. So I'm happy. They're not perfect but considering who their parents are they did great 
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 11:18:29 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3118
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Seriously, I just don't get it when people say their kids leave their rooms like pig sty's or that they tell their parents that they hate them or to shut-up, or worse. Who is running the show anyway?
You did seem to connect keeping one's room clean with being respectful to your parents. I know you didn't make a direct connection to the two, but from your post, Shadowspring's comment about you not being a better parent because you insist on clean rooms - wasn't a terribly long leap and not being that overly defensive either.
That was absolutely not the point of my original post... if you would have been kind enough to post it in it's entirety.
The OP asked why her son doesn't obey her about picking up his clothes and why he speaks to her disrespectfully. What I said was our girls were raised from early on to clean their rooms and not speak to us in a disrespectful way and they rarely strayed from it until they left home.
(ETA: Then I gave my little rant about not getting it when kids are disrespectful and disobedient...and parents taking charge, etc. *rant on* means to me that you can take or leave that part...it's just me ranting!)
It was only about cleaning and being disrespectful because those are the issues brought up in the OP. Then before I knew it, I was accused of being too strict, a clean freak, and other choice things like this:
-I could not stand to be in family that placed such importance on outward appearances.
- you are neither a better person, better Christian nor a better parent because you insist your children's rooms are clean every Saturday.
You know, I've found that in this parenting folder, it nearly always turns defensive and often times downright nasty. I go away for a while because I think it's hopeless to post here, but then come back because I guess I'm either hoping it has changed or maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.
So, I guess I'm out once again!
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 10/1/2008 11:24:47 AM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 11:39:58 AM
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Sideways
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I don't feel as though this thread has turned nasty or overly defensive, but you do what you need to do, Kat. I'm sorry you were hurt.
We have differences and we discuss them, and with only the written word, that's a very tricky thing to do.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 12:59:02 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3118
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
I'm sorry you were hurt.
Believe me, I was not hurt, but thanks for your concern.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 1:28:19 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 874
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[..]
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(I'm a guy. Some tattoo designs look nice, though...but I haven't worn my earrings lately. So, think the lady in the avatar is my sister?)
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RE: Reality check - 10/1/2008 2:21:18 PM
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shadowspring
Posts: 1644
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quote:
I could not stand to be in family that placed such importance on outward appearances.
That's just me Kat. I thought I went on to explain is pretty clearly:
quote:
It just is not in my nature. I am an inner space person. I can sit and talk, read and pray for hours and not even notice what's not in front of my face. What's in the other room is completely off my mind.
And I never used the words "too strict" or "a clean freak". Did anyone else?
I did point out that being a more organized person does not make you a better person, parent or Christian. I do not understand why that offends you. Because the reverse is also true.
You are neither a better person, better Christian nor a better parent if you do not insist your children's rooms are clean every Saturday.
And there exist in this world many different states of housekeeping between : quote:
rooms like pig sty's quote:
slovenly and having a regularly scheduled cleaning day.
No one I know would call me "slovenly" or say my house is a "pig sty"- though they could say that about my son's room on occasion!
But since he is an honest, hard-working, respectful, amiable young man, the state of his room on most days is not a concern to me. If I tell him to clean it, and he doesn't follow through, then his rebellion would concern me, but his room? Not nearly as important to me as it obviously is to you (and many other people in the world, no doubt. I am sure you are not alone! )
quote:
Sideways wrote:
You did seem to connect keeping one's room clean with being respectful to your parents. I know you didn't make a direct connection to the two, but from your post, Shadowspring's comment about you not being a better parent because you insist on clean rooms - wasn't a terribly long leap and not being that overly defensive either.
Thanks Sideways. I did not mean to attack anyone, but simply to state that being an organized person is a matter of personality and preference. It is not a moral issue at all.
_____________________________
"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: Reality check - 10/2/2008 1:48:37 PM
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coolfamily6
Posts: 226
Joined: 4/18/2005
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My 12 yr old started to leave her clothes out then not knowing what was clean or dirty she would throw it back into the wash. After two warnings, I made her start cleaning her own laundry. She has been doing it for a year now. A couple of weeks ago she was up until 11 cleaning uniforms, I still forced her out of bed at 6am. She has somewhat improved but at least I am not recleaning her clothes.
DS just got the first warning this week.
_____________________________
If your bible is a mess; your life won't be.
~Encouragement a mom gave to our children at our First Grader's Bible Ceremony!
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RE: Reality check - 10/2/2008 6:39:04 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8764
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
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DD1 has to do her own laundry because I was seeing things come through that I knew she hadn't worn since the last time I washed them
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L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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