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Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/8/2008 3:50:04 PM
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Hislittleone
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I've seen quite a few Christians mention on here that looking at a person of the opposite sex in an appreciative sort of way is ok as long as it's not staring. I believe that men and women are different in how this affects them. Men are more visually stimulated than women. I think it's a huge problem in the church today that sexual purity isn't addressed enough. There is more to sexual purity than just not having sex with anyone other than your spouse. Remember that God looks at the heart and He said that anyone who "looks at a woman with lust in his heart has committed adultery".
IMO, looking at someone other than your spouse to appreciate their physical beauty is the first step to lustful thoughts. Sometimes all it takes is a glance. In my marriage, we both avoid looking at others in an "appreciative way". If I see someone who might cause me to stumble then I look away. I don't stare and drool. My husband does me the same courtesy but takes it a step further because men are more likely to have lustful thoughts than women at a first glance. For example, he avoids the magazine rack in our grocery store because of all the skin that is shown. He gazes at the ground when we are out exercising together because women joggers are often scantily clad.
So my questions are at what point does it become lustful and just how high should our standard of purity be?
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/8/2008 3:56:15 PM
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rcjames
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Christ made a very clear distinction here;
(Mat 5:28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
If one intent or the end run of lookiong is to lust after (think about sex, consider ses, or anything else sexual) then you are in deep doo doo.
My suggestion is to keep your gaze about the shoulders.
Thsnka
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/8/2008 3:56:49 PM
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Qtman
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There is a difference in admiring someone's beauty and lust. I am perfectly capable of looking at a woman thinking how pretty she is maybe even commenting on her beauty with out wanting to grab her and head off to the nearest motel. My wife will even ask me something like Did you see her. I thought she was pretty didn't you?
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/8/2008 4:05:58 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
There is a difference in admiring someone's beauty and lust. I am perfectly capable of looking at a woman thinking how pretty she is maybe even commenting on her beauty with out wanting to grab her and head off to the nearest motel. My wife will even ask me something like Did you see her. I thought she was pretty didn't you?
And that is why I believe Christ made the distincton between looking at a woman and looking at a woman to "lust after her:.
Fine line, but maybe a line between Heaven and hell for some.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/8/2008 4:10:36 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
So my questions are at what point does it become lustful and just how high should our standard of purity be?
It is a matter of the heart, not the eyes. It's up to each of us to know where we are weak and, like your husband, avert our eyes from anything that we know tempts us to sin.
As I've heard it said, sin is like a bird. It may land in our hair without our consent, but we should not permit it to build a nest there.
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
-James 1:14-15
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/8/2008 11:00:04 PM
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JamesL5
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JimboFletch,
I have to disagree with you. Lusting after women includes BOTH the eyes and the heart. Please read this verse again.
"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:27-28).
Just to prove my point again......
"I have made a covenant with my eyes; How then could I gaze at a virgin?" (Job 31:1)
The word gaze in Hebrew is "hesh" which literally means "to stare." Job would of never said this if he thought it was OK to be staring at women with the wrong intention. 
< Message edited by JamesL5 -- 10/9/2008 1:31:14 AM >
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/8/2008 11:11:51 PM
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SamsonUSA
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Nothing is wrong with admiring God's great creation. Wether it be the stars, a mountain range, the desert at night, or a beautiful woman.
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Where does my help come from?
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/8/2008 11:22:18 PM
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JamesL5
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SamsonUSA,
It depends on what you mean by admire. If you a married man, there is no reason why you should admire a woman for her beauty other than your own wife. With that said, if you meant admiring another woman out of RESPECT AND DIGNITY.........then I see nothing wrong with that.
< Message edited by JamesL5 -- 10/9/2008 3:18:58 PM >
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 12:54:26 AM
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HumbleB4Him
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Lust is a huge stumbling block for men, no question. So is justification and rationalization. This is where we let that voice inside our head say "I am an upright, Christian man, I am simply "admiring" God's creations." The point is, we must be honest with ourselves. Self reflection and self analization is something men rarely do. If we dig deep, it can be scary. Read Every Mans Battle by Fred Stoeker, it holds a lot of truth about this topic.
Jesus is our example to live by. Often we have to ask ourselves the question "what would Jesus do, or how would Jesus handle that?" We can only speculate here, and from knowing Jesus in our Hearts through the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus had such a close relationship with the Father, and such a love for us as the "Church", that all men and women were his brothers and sisters in Christ. Therefore, he looked at all women the same, as his "sister." We, as Christian men who are married, also have "brothers and sisters" in Christ. We should not lust after them.
That brings the question back full circle, what is lust? Lust is self serving, lust is selfish, and lust is shallow, right? God created all people and therefore all people are beautiful to God. Someone by American standards who men would generally call "ugly" vs. some top model on the catwalk is seen just the same by God, He is their creator. So it is us, as mankind, who has slapped labels of beauty out there. Then would it not stand to reason that if the above statement is true, considering someone other than your spouse as beautiful is inappropriate? And, if God sets the standard and judges us on the inside, not the outside, do we not want to follow His footprint?
I could go on and on and on. My point is, men, let us set our bar high. Let us honor and value our wife’s in this way. Let us learn to follow the Lord and His example.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 1:56:35 AM
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Hislittleone
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quote:
rcjames: My suggestion is to keep your gaze about the shoulders.
Rc, I think that's a very wise suggestion. 
quote:
JimboFletch: It is a matter of the heart, not the eyes.
I agree completely.
quote:
SamsonUSA: Nothing is wrong with admiring God's great creation. Wether it be the stars, a mountain range, the desert at night, or a beautiful woman.
That's the part I'm a little confused about. I'm thinking that each person's physical beauty is a part of their sexuality and should be reserved for the marriage partner's pleasure. It's not something that God created for every Tom, Dick and Harry to enjoy.
quote:
JamesL5: It depends on what you mean by admire. If you a married man, there is no reason why you should admire a woman for her beauty other than your own wife. With that said, if you meant admiring another woman out of RESPECT AND DIGNITY.........then I see nothing wrong with that.
Exactly. As a woman, I feel that a man should put that energy and focus on his wife (if he is married, if not then it should be put elsewhere until he is married) not on me. Some of you may be thinking that a glance here and there doesn't take much focus or energy but if you add all those little glances up over a lifetime, it's more than a little.
Here's a thought.... The marriage relationship is to mirror our relationship with Christ. Our God is a jealous God. He does not want us to worship or admire other gods. So wouldn't that kind of be the same thing? If one partner's admiration is being given to someone whom they aren't married to then isn't that just like the church turning to false gods?
I think this all applies to single folks as well. If you aren't married but hope to be one day then all this should be saved for your future spouse. If you never intend to marry then this part of your life (sexuality) belongs to the Lord.
Of course, single people who are dating may wonder how they are supposed to not look at potential mates as either attractive or not. I think the key is in looking at them with respect, as your brother/sister in Christ. Judge them by the fruit in their lives, the beauty of their hearts.
Or maybe it is different for single people who are searching for a spouse. I don't know.  Hopefully in discussing this with you all I'll be able to work out all the kinks in these ideas. 
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 10:41:48 AM
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Tinkerbell_
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Going back to the Brother and Sister role...
I have an older brother and while I don't lust after him *shudders* or day dream about him I am completely comfortable with telling him 'You look good in that' or 'You look nice tonight' or whatever the case may be. He can say the same things to me in return. We aren't lusting after each other; right?
So how is that any different than anything else? Because I can tell my girlfriend "Oooh you look good girlfriend!" Does that automatically mean I'm lusting after her?
You can find something beautiful without being attracted to it or lusting after it.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 10:55:18 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JamesL5
JimboFletch,
I have to disagree with you. Lusting after women includes BOTH the eyes and the heart...
Hiya James, let me give you an example of why that isn't really the heart of the matter:
You may put out pictures of chocolate pie on my desk. You may put out chocolate pie in the breakroom. You may even put out a piece of chocolate pie next to my plate. You can do that all day long, every day, for decades. But you ain't gonna tempt me in the least.
Howsumever, if you offer me a piece of homemade pecan pie, I am going to seriously have to struggle to resist accepting.
My eyes could see both but both do not affect me the same way. It's internal. It's the heart.
"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."
-Jesus (Mathew 15:18-20)
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 11:10:04 AM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JamesL5
quote:
SamsonUSA
Nothing is wrong with admiring God's great creation. Wether it be the stars, a mountain range, the desert at night, or a beautiful woman.
It depends on what you mean by admire. If you a married man, there is no reason why you should admire a woman for her beauty other than your own wife. With that said, if you meant admiring another woman out of RESPECT AND DIGNITY.........then I see nothing wrong with that.
JamesL5 your own bible quote backs up what Jimbo said. "looks at with lust has committed.......in his HEART.
As far a married man admiring a woman for her beauty, when I got married my wife put a ring on my finger. She did not poke my eyes out. I can still see beauty in many things including women. Do I want one of the other women? No I do not. I love my wife and would not swap her for all the women in the world. If a man's relationship with his wife is so weak he cannot look at another woman without being lustful he needs to do some serious work on his own heart or his marriage is destined to fail.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 3:14:51 PM
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Qtman
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To start off with if a man is looking at a womans behind he is looking for the wrong reasons. BTW I know women who watch football for that very reason.
I can, have and will look at women and notice if they are pretty. Again there is nothing wrong with that. Some people although not physically attractive have ways about them that make them attractive or pretty. Am I not supposed to look for that either.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 3:25:25 PM
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Qtman
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Case in point. There are women posting here that have at one time or another had their picture either as an avatar or in their profile. Right off the top of my head Kath, Coeurdelion and Phosy come to mind. I think all three of these ladies are pretty. Do I find them attractive? Only a blind man(or woman) would say no. Do I want to jump in bed with either of the three. The answer here is no. That thought has never entered my mind. If a man can't look upon the natural beauty of a woman with having immoral thoughts that man has issues far greater than can be resolved on these forums.
To Kath, Coeurdelion and Phosy I apologize for singling you out.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 3:50:49 PM
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mrtigger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
And I don't think we can say we are just admiring God's creation because it's not the same as mountains or trees or even animals. People are in a different category altogether. People have souls...spirits.
I agree on that. I may, by chance, notice that another woman is attractive, but me spending time "appreciating" that aspect of her is over the line I think. Mountains are beautiful too but I'm pretty sure I've never had a lustful thought about one.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 4:03:02 PM
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Hislittleone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
If a man can't look upon the natural beauty of a woman with having immoral thoughts that man has issues far greater than can be resolved on these forums.
But what about this.....
quote:
I might need to re-read the book but from what I remember in Fred Stoeker's Every Heart Restored he says that if a man's eyes land on a woman's tush or legs or chest or whatever body part he happens to find attractive then it will automatically give him a chemical rush in the brain. He calls it a pop and likens it to the same physical feeling a woman would have if a man caressed her inner thigh. He says that many, if not most, men don't even realize it happens because they generally don't pay attention. It's not a deliberate thought of lust but it's still a sexual reaction that's immediate. So men should be very careful about where their eyes land.
A "pop" is not an immoral thought. It's a chemical reaction in the brain that produces a "high" or a pleasant feeling.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 4:06:21 PM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
If a man can't look upon the natural beauty of a woman with having immoral thoughts that man has issues far greater than can be resolved on these forums.
But what about this.....
quote:
I might need to re-read the book but from what I remember in Fred Stoeker's Every Heart Restored he says that if a man's eyes land on a woman's tush or legs or chest or whatever body part he happens to find attractive then it will automatically give him a chemical rush in the brain. He calls it a pop and likens it to the same physical feeling a woman would have if a man caressed her inner thigh. He says that many, if not most, men don't even realize it happens because they generally don't pay attention. It's not a deliberate thought of lust but it's still a sexual reaction that's immediate. So men should be very careful about where their eyes land.
A "pop" is not an immoral thought. It's a chemical reaction in the brain that produces a "high" or a pleasant feeling.
That is so ludicrous it does not even warrant a response. I would have to view his test subject and the results of his research to even consider the merits of what he wrote.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 4:12:09 PM
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Hislittleone
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Ok, I've found my Fred Stoeker book and am refreshing my memory about that chemical pop thing. I'll get back to yall with it later.
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RE: Standards of Sexual Purity - 10/9/2008 4:40:59 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
RC, you spoke about keeping the gaze about the shoulders, to some men, the collar bones are very attractive and can lead to "no-no" land.
(Is this the reason Muslim women are covered head to toe?) 
Well Memaw, I guess I will defer to you on this; as I do not know or never have met any weirdo's that are turned on by a collar bone.
I look at (see, speak to, address, teach, preach to) many females every week, but my seeing them, recognizing them; and that act of looking at them is certainly not lusting after them.
So I must humbly disagree with your assumption.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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) what Fred wrote on the subject. So don't take what I said as being his exact thoughts. It's been a year or more since I read that book. 