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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/9/2008 10:35:22 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1892
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quote:
mvic
For my part, I really don't know. I believe in Christ and do my best to live as He would wish me too. Yet, I leave that final decision to Him. In hope that He will find me worthy.
mvic,
I find this an interesting statement. I sounds as if you are basing your salvation and your ultimate destiny (whether heaven or hell) on yourself, your worth. Is this what you believe?
I had a friend who expressed a similar thought once. He thought his thought/attitude/belief was humility. Yet if the final decision is the Lord's, then don't you have to base the answer on His word? And what does He say about your salvation?
BTW, if others have asked about this and it has already been discussed, forgive me for treading the same path. But I didn't want to forget to ask you as I thought this too important. . . and my 'rememberer' doesn't work as well as it used to.  LL
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/10/2008 6:04:58 AM
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mvic
Posts: 1601
Joined: 1/17/2008
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Hi Liveloved,
Thank you for your question which gives me an opportunity to explain what I mean.
No ... I don't believe that I'll enter Heaven through my efforts and good deeds alone. Or my worth even ... little as that is.
My salvation was bought by Christ on the Cross and my way to God is through John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
But I also know that Jesus said: "Not everyone who calls me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do what my Father in Heaven wants them to do." Matthew 7:21
I believe God wants me to do His will by loving and honouring Him and by loving my neighbour - as Jesus commanded.
This I do to the best of my ability. However, having said that, I am happy to leave the final decision as to whether I (or anyone else) enters Heaven to Him. I do not wish to presume that I know I have a guaranteed entry.
I hope this explains where I'm coming from. I admire and respect those who believe their place in Heaven is guaranteed. I just feel that perhaps they are making an assumption they are not entitled to make.
Of course, I may well be wrong. I have before ... often!
_____________________________
Visit http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/10/2008 11:25:39 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3142
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
Folks here don't like to say it directly, but the general consensus among evangelical Christians is that Jews (even the one who died in the Holocaust) who die without accepting Christ spend eternity suffering the unspeakable torture of Hell, while even the monster who killed them will go to heaven if he sincerely accepts Christ as his saviour.
Am I interpreting the general consensus of this board correctly? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The amount of suffering one does on earth does not get them to heaven just as leading a "good" life does not earn one that right either. It is through Jesus Christ alone that men are saved and promised an eternity in paradise.
I can feel for you and your anguish over this, as I have relatives who endured the holocaust and have since passed on. I shudder to think of them in hell, and can only hope that somehow, before they passed, Jesus Christ, in His desire to see that no one would spend an eternity in hell, somehow revealed himself to them in their last moments.
On the other hand who is to say who suffered more? There are many people who suffer tremendously in this life...an entire family murdered and one child left behind; someone who spends their entire life institutionalized because of mental illness; someone who is physically/sexually abused throughout their childhood...
If you excuse one, and allow them to escape hell because of their suffering, you must excuse them all and the Bible is clear that there is just One Way into heaven and that is through belief in the One Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and I happen to believe that He makes a way for everyone to have that opportunity in their lifetime...for, "even the rocks cry out" as to Who Jesus really is.
30 "And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved..."Acts 16:25
23 "...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." -Romans 3
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/10/2008 7:10:22 PM
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campbe33
Posts: 422
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jadegrrl
A friend brought up these questions to me and I thought it was interesting. It is one of the reasons why he hasn't chosen to accept jesus into his life. So I am trying to find the answer for him and myself.
Are Jews going to heaven? They believe in the same God but reject Jesus Christ as the messiah, their Lord and Savior. What about the hollocaust and those jews? Did they go heaven?
Can a homosexual who believes in God and accepted Jesus christ who went to church and was a great person on earth.... do you think they can go to heaven?
I believe Christians can only say in a generalized way what kinds behaviour the bible states are unacceptable to God for acceptence into Heaven. Telling someone directly that they are going hell is a bit arrogant and presumptuous. I would dare say I know the mind of God.
I believe the Messianic Jews who adhere to the belief Jesus is the resurrected Messiah and God's son will be accepted into heaven. I know in the old testament a "remnant" is mentioned.
I believe homosexuals who have accepted Christ and stop practicing homosexuality will be accepted into heaven. We all have a cross to bear. Some are heavy than others, but God wouldn't have given them to you if he didn't think you were strong enough to bear them. I know homosexuals feel that this is way God created me, surely he wouldn't deny me a sexual relationship. There's a heck of a lot more to Love than sex. Personally, I by choice have been celibate going on 9yrs now. It doesn't mean I don't get sexual urges, trust me I do. I just take it to God when I do.
_____________________________
"Let your conversation be gracious and seasoned with salt so you will have the right response for everyone"
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/10/2008 8:18:48 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
behaviour
It's not behavior....it's called sin. And NONE of it it acceptable to God and NONE of it will be allowed into Heaven.
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/10/2008 8:31:25 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jadegrrl
A friend brought up these questions to me and I thought it was interesting. It is one of the reasons why he hasn't chosen to accept jesus into his life. So I am trying to find the answer for him and myself.
Are Jews going to heaven? They believe in the same God but reject Jesus Christ as the messiah, their Lord and Savior. What about the hollocaust and those jews? Did they go heaven?
Can a homosexual who believes in God and accepted Jesus christ who went to church and was a great person on earth.... do you think they can go to heaven?
So your friend feels he is responsible for eveyone he is not sure made it into heaven? And until he knows what happened to them he will not decide for Jesus? I have heard that excuse; it's sure not a new one.
The Bible is very clear on sin.....and very clear that the only answer to forgiveness of sin, is through our belief in the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
We do not come to God and demand we understand His plans. He offers us salvation....Whosoever will may come. No human being could possibly be responsible for or understand the heart of another.
Being a good person does not 'get' you into heaven. Jesus said that no one is good but God.. God declares that the human heart is wicked. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin. No human being keeps the record of who is really 'saved.' But, the only humans who are saved, are those who believe in Jesus; those who believe that Jesus died in their place and bore their sins.
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/10/2008 11:01:53 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
Sin is a type of behavior? Forgive me for not using your wording!!! I am grateful for your great wisdom in setting me straight. I did not imply sin was acceptable to God.
Had a bad day?
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/11/2008 8:53:09 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Can a homosexual who believes in God and accepted Jesus christ who went to church and was a great person on earth.... do you think they can go to heaven?
I believe they can, yes. God does not demand that we be perfect here on earth. Now, I would say that someone who continues in practicing a homosexual lifestyle won't be an effective Christian, but I believe they can go to heaven.
Jesus would seem to disagree with you;
(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus says those that work iniquity will not enter in. Homosexuality definately fits into definition of iniquity along with a lot of other sinning lifestyles.
Most of modern theology tries to broaden the pathway to Heaven and include many on that path, some theologies include all in that pathway to heaven.
Christ says;
(Mat 7:14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
But Jesus says it is FEW who find it.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/11/2008 9:12:44 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
Tell me what you think life is like for my mother in Hell. Is she at this moment screaming in searing horrible pain? Will God, in His love, ever release her from this stupendous suffering?
Who has suffered more, Jesus on His two days on the cross, or my mother in her eternity in the fires of Hell?
Well first off Christ was not on the cross for two days.
I find it more than disconceting that you are so positive that your mother is in hell. I do not think that any of us can determine who or who not accepted Christ before that final breath.
Ever consider the possibility that there are deeper personal issuses at play with you and your mother.
you seem to be harping on an assumption that Christians believe God sent Jesus into the world to condemn folks, and nothing could be farther from the truth.
(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Folks are already comdemned, and Christ came to save them that believe.
This passage explains why folks (possibly you included) do not accept Christ and that reason is explained in verse 19 of the above passage.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/11/2008 11:21:29 AM
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KaseyTom
Posts: 163
Joined: 9/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
Tell me what you think life is like for my mother in Hell. Is she at this moment screaming in searing horrible pain? Will God, in His love, ever release her from this stupendous suffering?
Who has suffered more, Jesus on His two days on the cross, or my mother in her eternity in the fires of Hell?
Well first off Christ was not on the cross for two days.
I find it more than disconceting that you are so positive that your mother is in hell. I do not think that any of us can determine who or who not accepted Christ before that final breath.
Ever consider the possibility that there are deeper personal issuses at play with you and your mother.
you seem to be harping on an assumption that Christians believe God sent Jesus into the world to condemn folks, and nothing could be farther from the truth.
(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Folks are already comdemned, and Christ came to save them that believe.
This passage explains why folks (possibly you included) do not accept Christ and that reason is explained in verse 19 of the above passage.
Thanks
RC
http://forums.crosswalk.com/fb.aspx?m=3882074
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/11/2008 2:11:52 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
It is doubtless a sin. But were any of us really any better in God's eyes before being covered in Christ's righteousness?
I am not the same person that I was before I was blood-bought, redeemed, and indwelt by God the Holy Spirit. Sinning is not my normal mode of life and when I do sin, He quickly nudges me or, if I do not respond, chastises me until I repent (change).
If anyone can live in intentional sin without God's chastisement, the Bible says they are not His, they are tares and false converts.
AMEN JimboFletch!!
There is no way that I could or would go out and testify or witness to someone else about our Lord, and turn around and say, "Oh but by the way, Im not sure that Im going." Its a promise that He makes to us, and He isnt a God that lies or breaks promises, I know that I will be with Him. Thank you Jesus!
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/11/2008 3:05:51 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
I truly wish there was a happy afterlife as it would be interesting (and probably pretty boring after 30 bazillion bazillion years) and would make the long slow process growing old and dying much more tolerable. But we are what we are and we belief what we belief.
Just curious, if you think we're all at least a little flakey for our beliefs, why join & hang out here? Surely you're not looking for converts. And I assume you aren't a killjoy.
Most humans that have ever lived believed in a God or gods and an afterlife. I don't think your flaky, I think your human.
As for why I hang here, I enjoy intellectually stimulating religious and political debate, and the excellent moderation keeps things civil and keeps out the inevitable trolls and other who ruin most forums (though it is a bit like walking on eggshells). The last thing I would do is join an atheist forum. I can't think of anything more boring.
KaseyTom
You stated in one of your other post that our minds are not wired the same, you stated somethng there that is very powerful, the "mind." We have to be careful on what let the mind think on and ponder on, thats where satan hits us, he is the prince of the air. You see the Holy Spirit lives in our hearts, and I dont think you are here for debate, I think you are here searching for answers, I believe the Holy Spirit is dealing with you, and you are very well fighting Him on it, but He has deffianetly brought you to the right place. You are in my prayers KaseyTom, I pray that the Lord will reveal Himself to you in such a powerful way, that there is no denying Him! You said, its alot like walking on eggshells, I believe that you feel like that because there is nothing but truth spoken here.
Rev. 22, 18-21
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.
Revelation is, above all, a book of hope. It shows that no matter what happens on earth, God is in control. It promises that evil will not last forever. And it depicts the wonderful reward that is waiting for all those who believe in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord!
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/11/2008 3:21:24 PM
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terryjohn
Posts: 470
Joined: 3/23/2007
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I think the issue is not about others but about him personally. In John 21 one of the disciples asked about what was going to happen to another disciple as if trying to gauge his own importance or standing by their salvation but Christ would have none of it for our salvation does not depend what happens to others but by the faith we have. It also stops anyone saying that if this happens to these then I will not follow Christ. They have no excuse.
Joh 21:22 - Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, (be saved) what is that to you? You must follow me.
The issue here is that, if people claim to know God, they will cladly oppose evil in their lives and the world, for if they do not, they are liars and do not know God or worse, call God a liar.
"Mt 16:24 - Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
It is simply not good enough to say I have faith and do not do the things God requires of me. Can I be saved if I have not the love that God requires of me? How can I say, I love God, and sexual abuse others and lead others astray by the teaching of the traditions of men?
Matthew 7:21-29:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Now if we think we can justify our sins with our faith we are fools, and if we teach others to do the same we are devils.
Mt 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
It is clear righteousness and faith go hand in hand. Those who follow their lusts shall be destroyed by them, for they do not deny themselves and certainly do not follow Christ.
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/11/2008 3:22:34 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17123
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
No worries, I know with absolute certainty the God you believe in doesn't exists, there is no Heaven or Hell, and when my mother died she simply cease to be, as will I. I was simply trying to make a point about the contradictions in your belief system and personalize it to help drive in the point.
Dear KaseyTom
You were already warned once not to post in such a way that violates our ROD or TOS.
This is a Christian Website, designed to "Enhance fellowship, communication and relationship-building within the Christian community"
We do not require that you are a Christian to be a member of the site, but we do require that you respect our Terms of Service.
You may want to read our Range of Doctrine, and even our Statement of Faith.
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/11/2008 4:19:51 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Hi Liveloved,
Thank you for your question which gives me an opportunity to explain what I mean.
No ... I don't believe that I'll enter Heaven through my efforts and good deeds alone. Or my worth even ... little as that is.
My salvation was bought by Christ on the Cross and my way to God is through John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
But I also know that Jesus said: "Not everyone who calls me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do what my Father in Heaven wants them to do." Matthew 7:21
I believe God wants me to do His will by loving and honouring Him and by loving my neighbour - as Jesus commanded.
This I do to the best of my ability. However, having said that, I am happy to leave the final decision as to whether I (or anyone else) enters Heaven to Him. I do not wish to presume that I know I have a guaranteed entry.
I hope this explains where I'm coming from. I admire and respect those who believe their place in Heaven is guaranteed. I just feel that perhaps they are making an assumption they are not entitled to make.
Of course, I may well be wrong. I have before ... often!
This I do to the best of my ability. However, having said that, I am happy to leave the final decision as to whether I (or anyone else) enters Heaven to Him. I do not wish to presume that I know I have a guaranteed entry.
Ok so I must ask you this question MVIC, what does covenant mean to you? I can give you many many verses on Covenant and what it means. Its a promise that God has made to us, do you think that Jesus Christ died for us, to leave us here in doubt? Why are we fighting the good fight of faith? Why do we witness and testify to others about Christ who died for our sins, the world's sins, who brought about the "New Covenant" to say to others that we dont know where we are going? I cant quiet get your way of thinking through my head. Do you claim to be a christain, a follower of Christ but dont have enough faith to say that you know where you are going? Well I do, the Word of God tells me to stand firm on His Word and the Promises that He has made to us, to look forward to the day that we will be united with Him, and believe me, I do! Im not here to tell others that if they will surrender their lives to the Lord that they may still stand a chance of going to hell.
John 14:6 Is so very true, but if you study that verse, it says: "AS THE WAY, JESUS IS OUR PATH TO THE FATHER. AS THE TRUTH, HE IS THE REALITY OF ALL GOD'S PROMISES. AS THE LIFE, HE JOINS HIS DIVINE LIFE TO OURS, BOTH NOW AND ETERNALLY."
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/12/2008 6:50:45 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
I just believe that homosexuality is one of those things that can be nudged about - it's not something that rules someone out from receiving the Holy Spirit.
Tell that to the people in Sodom and Gomorrah.
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/14/2008 10:15:46 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea213
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Besides, God calls the practice of homosexuality is an abomination - the very worst thing He could label any act.
Actually Matthew 12:31(NIV) says "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forigiven."
No disagreement from me on that.
However, one must confess and repent in order to receive forgiveness. Confessing isn't enough. Repenting - turning FROM sin and turning TOWARD God's way - is a requirement too. Any sin, theft, murder, adultery, or homosexuality CAN be forgiven if the sinner confessess and repents.
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/14/2008 10:36:15 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1124
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea213
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Besides, God calls the practice of homosexuality is an abomination - the very worst thing He could label any act.
Actually Matthew 12:31(NIV) says "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forigiven."
No disagreement from me on that.
However, one must confess and repent in order to receive forgiveness. Confessing isn't enough. Repenting - turning FROM sin and turning TOWARD God's way - is a requirement too. Any sin, theft, murder, adultery, or homosexuality CAN be forgiven if the sinner confessess and repents.
Ummm....no. Forgiveness is a done deal. And it was done by Christ on that cross 2000 years ago. Nobody asked Him to do it, and He consulted none of us before He did. He just did it. And by His one sacrifice He has provide forgiveness not only for us, but for the whole world.
We do not confess and repent in order to get forgiveness, we confess and repent in order to agree with and then allow God to change us into the image of Christ.
If forgiveness is dependent upon us and our ability to confess and repent, then it is no longer Christ's sacrifice that has provided forgiveness, but it is us through our own ability to keep short accounts with God.
We don't get forgiven, we are forgiven. And that forgiveness is in Christ, as is the eternal life that saves us.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/14/2008 11:06:21 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
We don't get forgiven, we are forgiven. And that forgiveness is in Christ, as is the eternal life that saves us.
Well, OK......but :
I John1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. "
Will forgive, not has forgiven. You don't obtain forgiveness without asking or everyone would go to heaven.
quote:
If forgiveness is dependent upon us and our ability to confess and repent, then it is no longer Christ's sacrifice that has provided forgiveness, but it is us through our own ability to keep short accounts with God.
V6 of this same chapter indicates that a person can claim to have fellowship and yet walk in darkness. I don't think we need to keep a 'short' account with God. This is rather, keeping our walk right before God. We are still forgiven....still saved....but sin is ongoing.
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/14/2008 11:21:06 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
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URForgiven, have you bought into the mistaken notion that God sent His Son to die on the cross so that we have a license to sin?
If so, see (as noted above) 1 John 1:19. John was writing to BELIEVERS in need of FORGIVENESS.
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/14/2008 11:50:38 AM
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SweetPea213
Posts: 63
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetPea213
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Besides, God calls the practice of homosexuality is an abomination - the very worst thing He could label any act.
Actually Matthew 12:31(NIV) says "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forigiven."
No disagreement from me on that.
However, one must confess and repent in order to receive forgiveness. Confessing isn't enough. Repenting - turning FROM sin and turning TOWARD God's way - is a requirement too. Any sin, theft, murder, adultery, or homosexuality CAN be forgiven if the sinner confessess and repents.
No disagreement here either! Even though I am saved, and I ask for forgiveness of my sins when I realize that I have sinned, there are still somethings--sins--that I struggle with. Sometimes let my human judegement get the better of me and I don't see somethings or people through God's eyes. I repent. I try not to judge, because that's not what Jesus told us to do. I ask for the help of the Holy Spirit so that I can turn away from my sins and anything else that might put me farther away from God than closer.
Some Christians still struggle with lying, stealing, judging, homosexuality, even murder. As born-again Christians with the dwelling of the Holy Spirit within us, know that those things (any sins) are not pleasing to God and we know that we are not following the commandments Jesus gave us. We let ourselves fall into the trap of sin. Fortunately for us, we can ask for forgiveness and help in turning away from our sins!
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Ummm....no. Forgiveness is a done deal. And it was done by Christ on that cross 2000 years ago. Nobody asked Him to do it, and He consulted none of us before He did. He just did it. And by His one sacrifice He has provide forgiveness not only for us, but for the whole world.
We do not confess and repent in order to get forgiveness, we confess and repent in order to agree with and then allow God to change us into the image of Christ.
If forgiveness is dependent upon us and our ability to confess and repent, then it is no longer Christ's sacrifice that has provided forgiveness, but it is us through our own ability to keep short accounts with God.
We don't get forgiven, we are forgiven. And that forgiveness is in Christ, as is the eternal life that saves us.
Peace
I agree that forgiveness is a done deal by the sacrifice Jesus gave on the Cross. And it's there for everyone. But we have to make the choice to accept it first!
It's always been my understanding that when we sin, we displease God. If we are born-again Christians, we can go to God through Jesus' name, and ask Him for forgiveness!
For example, if are thirsty and I offer you a glass of water, but you don't take it, then it does not mean I didn't offer it to you. I can not physically make you drink it, you decide whether or not to drink it. If you take the glass of water, but don't drink it, then it will not quench your thirst. But I still gave you the offer, even if you don't drink it. If you take the glass of water and drink, then your thirst is satisfied! But I did not force you to drink.
Forgiveness is kind of like that. Our souls are thirsty for God, but only through the blood of Jesus (in this analogy, I'll call it water) can we be saved. Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice to our sins. He offered it, it is still there for the taking.
But some people (non-Christians) do not accept His offer. Doesn't mean the offer is gone, it's just that the non-Christians haven't accepted the offer. Because they do not drink the water, their souls remain thirsty for God--whether they realize it or not.
Another group of people (Sunday Christians) have accepted Jesus' offer, but they do not pour the water in their mouths. Water only satisfy the thirst if it goes in the mouth. You can pour it on the floor, but it doesn't do you any good! Again, the offer isn't off the table, it just hasn't been properly used.
The next group of people (the born-again Christians) have accepted the offer Jesus made on the Cross. These are the people who have drank the water. Their thirst for God has been satisfied through Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross!! The offer was made, and it has been fully accepted.
But this group of people (the born-again Christians) sometimes get dehydrated (sins). That's where forgiveness and repentance come in, Jesus and God are more than enough to always satisfy our thirst! When they realize they are dehydrated, they take another drink and ask the Holy Spirit for help to recognize when they are getting dehydrated, so that we may turn away from the dehydration (sins).
In this life, we all get dehydrated at times. Some more than others, some less--but we all do. It is only in Heaven, when we are with God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit for all of eternity will those who have accepted the offer and drink it ever be fully hydrated 100% of the time, because there is no sin in Heaven!
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"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed." ~ 1 Peter 2:24
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RE: The People that are going to Heaven - 10/14/2008 1:36:06 PM
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URForgiven
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Joined: 3/22/2008
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I did not imply sin was acceptable to God. 
