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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 8:51:42 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6088
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Freddie,
I listed the facts, feel free to dispute the evidence.
Stating facts does not equal hating someone.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 9:15:40 AM
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P31W
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OK,
So I listened to the vidoe.
My question is for you self professed Christians who are defending Obama.
Do you agree with what he said?
Are you in the least troubled by it? Yes or No and why?
What is "your" understanding of the sermon on the mount and why it is completely inline with Romans 13 where God ordains the government and the use of the sword?
Do you find it troubling that Obama who says that we are not reading our bibles know these passages are completely compatable and go hand and hand yet Obama does not?
quote:
Show me a place where Obama considers himself the messiah, or "the one" or any of that nonsense, and then I will believe.
In light of the OP do you believe he is "trying" to interpet scripture for "us" the nation? And trying to tell us why "he" is not going to use it to help govern us? Why his beliefs about right and wrong are better than God's ways?
When he says that we are not reading our bibles do you believe he is trying to convince a "lost nation" that Christians are ignorant and the Bible an unreliable source for truth and wisdom?
< Message edited by P31W -- 10/13/2008 9:23:24 AM >
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 9:23:50 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6088
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The only one ignorant of Scripture in that clip and others Obama has made regarding said topic... is Obama.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 9:31:24 AM
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P31W
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I do hope the Obama defenders will answer my quesiton in post 54. I want to see if they defend God's Word as passionately as they do Obama.
I want to know where their true loyality lies. With God or the candidate.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 9:57:26 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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Wondering why none of those who earlier today were in this thread are willing to answer my simple questions?
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 10:35:36 AM
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tracydolls
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Bo is the one in Rev. 13,
that's what I believe as a Christian. And that America is Babylon.
but how many self-professing Christian believe that?
I agree with Bo on this-I don't want any self-professing Christian to run things here.
It's very obvoious he was not in a good sound Church. But I would say that about every one that goes to these megachurches, emerging churches, etc.
I read the Bible, and none of what the Conservative Christians matches up either.
they always twist "help the poor" verses.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 10:37:16 AM
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adelphi_sky
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I would argue that a good deal perhaps 90% of Christians in this country don't know how to interpret the Bible correctly. There are even preachers who misinterpret the Bible so much so that they are considered cults. Should Obama as a professing Christian study to show thyself approved? Yes, as every Christian should. Unfortunately that's not the case. At worst, he's your average "bedside" Baptist who goes to church as a practice and when he gets home, the Bible is put on the shelf. Rarely will you find a theologian or a Bible scholar running for office. More than likely, they are called to teach. And even then, there are some divisions between scholars and theologians. I'm not excusing Obama's lack of knowledge of the Bible, I pray that all Christians study so they can rightly divide the word of truth. Unfortunately, that's not the case. And some people make themselves look like fools when they try to expound on scripture that they have not studied. At any rate, I don't think what you see as mocking the Bible as intentionally making light of it's purpose. I've heard my own friends misquote, misinterpret, and misunderstand some scriptures. They are just showing a lack of understanding. Therefore, I wouldn't assume it was mockery. To be fair, I'm not sure McCain is any more a Bible scholar than Obama is and that's sad as well.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 10:43:58 AM
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P31W
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quote:
I saw the video- he is NOT speaking of religious salvation, he is speaking of humanistic terms for that word. the word "salvation" has many meanings. He is not talking about salvation thru Jesus now going thru Obama. He is using that word in a secular humanistic way.
I disagree with you here. He is talking from his religious prespective. Black Liberation Theology. If you don't know about his "faith" I would suggest you pick up a copy of James Cones book and read for yourself with he spent 20 years of his life professing to believe and even had his children baptised into. He IS talking about His Faith here.
So for him he "is" speaking about spiritural things. It's BLT.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 10:47:22 AM
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P31W
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quote:
At worst, he's your average "bedside" Baptist who goes to church as a practice and when he gets home, the Bible is put on the shelf
He is not baptist. That would be one who believes the bible is our final authority in how we are to live and what we are to believe.
Obama is from Black Liberation Theology background. This is why he can easily dismiss the scripture as not being relevant for us today and why he has no problem with homosexual marriage, abortion on demand or dismissing the bible as a means to knowing what is absolute truth. His view of the bible comes from the perspective of a black man and Jesus as one who suffered at the hands of white oppressors. (it's more about economics than it is sin) the need for an economic savior not a personal savior who would save us from our sin debt owed to God. Man centered religion not God centered religion. All men need to repent of their sins but white men need to repent more.......because white men have done more injustice in the world to other human beings....see God is not the one who we have "really sinned against" its the blacks we have really sinned against......man centered theology vs God centered theology......again the reason he can so eaily disreguard God's Word...
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 11:38:26 AM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
At worst, he's your average "bedside" Baptist who goes to church as a practice and when he gets home, the Bible is put on the shelf
He is not baptist. That would be one who believes the bible is our final authority in how we are to live and what we are to believe.
Obama is from Black Liberation Theology background. This is why he can easily dismiss the scripture as not being relevant for us today and why he has no problem with homosexual marriage, abortion on demand or dismissing the bible as a means to knowing what is absolute truth. His view of the bible comes from the perspective of a black man and Jesus as one who suffered at the hands of white oppressors. (it's more about economics than it is sin) the need for an economic savior not a personal savior who would save us from our sin debt owed to God. Man centered religion not God centered religion.
Perhaps you haven't heard of that saying. A "Bedside" Baptist is a saying meant to describe any Christian who is too lazy to go to church or study their Bible. They watch preachers on TV from their bedsides. I did not mean that Obama was an actual Baptist. Also, I'm no so sure he condones homosexuality. Even we as Christians are supposed to condemn the practice but love and respect the person. As a people, they should have rights. Just as Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindu have rights. Are they a religion, no. But they are a group. And all groups in this country deserve the same rights as others. Else it's discrimination. Condemn the sin, not the person. I that aspect, Obama is for equal rights for the people who practice homosexuality where civil unions are concerned, not necessarily the practice itself. If I'm not mistaken, I've heard Obama mention civil unions, not the the traditional definition of marriage. That's very important.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:03:08 PM
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P31W
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quote:
If I'm not mistaken, I've heard Obama mention civil unions, not the the traditional definition of marriage.
Obama is pro civil unions and pro allowing each state to decide about homosexual marriage. Of course we all know that what one state decides will have an effect on how the other states must view that "legal marriage". 
He is pro homosexual adoption and pro extending the hates crime bill to include homosexuals. He sponsored legislation in Illinois that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
quote:
Also, I'm no so sure he condones homosexuality. Even we as Christians are supposed to condemn the practice but love and respect the person.
Obama does not know what parts of the bible he is to uphold as a leader of the country and what parts to not uphold.
quote:
Perhaps you haven't heard of that saying. A "Bedside" Baptist is a saying meant to describe any Christian who is too lazy to go to church or study their Bible. They watch preachers on TV from their bedsides. I did not mean that Obama was an actual Baptist.
I have never heard the term before. I am saying flat out that Obama is not a Christian. Rather he is a follower of James Cones theology known as black liberation theology. The theology he aligned himself and his family with for 20 years.
Let's not forget that Obama renounced Wright but NEVER did he renounce the theology of the church his family is baptised into.
quote:
Rarely will you find a theologian or a Bible scholar running for office.
We just had one run under the republican for presidential nominee ticket. It's not rare where I come from. It's not uncommon for truly godly men and women of God who know their bible to have God call them to places of public service.
I would not classify Palin as a scholar but she is certainly a bible student with more knowledge and understanding of how to apply that knowledge than the other candidates.
< Message edited by P31W -- 10/13/2008 12:12:43 PM >
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:19:01 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1663
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
At worst, he's your average "bedside" Baptist who goes to church as a practice and when he gets home, the Bible is put on the shelf
He is not baptist. That would be one who believes the bible is our final authority in how we are to live and what we are to believe.
Obama is from Black Liberation Theology background. This is why he can easily dismiss the scripture as not being relevant for us today and why he has no problem with homosexual marriage, abortion on demand or dismissing the bible as a means to knowing what is absolute truth. His view of the bible comes from the perspective of a black man and Jesus as one who suffered at the hands of white oppressors. (it's more about economics than it is sin) the need for an economic savior not a personal savior who would save us from our sin debt owed to God. Man centered religion not God centered religion. All men need to repent of their sins but white men need to repent more.......because white men have done more injustice in the world to other human beings....see God is not the one who we have "really sinned against" its the blacks we have really sinned against......man centered theology vs God centered theology......again the reason he can so eaily disreguard God's Word...
Obama is of the black liberation theology... i heard jeremiah wright, and senator meeks, and anyone else from operation push, its all black liberation theology. it sounds christian, but its not, just coz its from an alleged christian church. (jeremiah wrights chruch is church of christ, if im not mistaken). they are not orthodox christianity due to several hersies, i.e. baptism to be saved, etc.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:26:04 PM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Obama is pro civil unions and pro allowing each state to decide about homosexual marriage. Of course we all know that what one state decides will have an effect on how the other states must view that "legal marriage".
Then it is up to each of us to vote for those state reps who will be our voice. I think people forget they have a voice in state and local matters as well and the federal government is not the end all be all.
quote:
He is pro homosexual adoption and pro extending the hates crime bill to include homosexuals.
Hate crimes against any individual for any reason should be against the law. I don't see a problem here. And whether or not a homosexual adopts a child is wright or wrong is your opinion and shouldn't be a law. Studies have shown there is no adverse affect on children growing up in same sex unions. Perhaps we should try to solve the source of why there are so many children to adopt.
quote:
Obama does not know what parts of the bible he is to uphold as a leader of the country and what parts to not uphold.
Because that is subjective. You think he should uphold certain things according to your personal beliefs that YOU think every Christian should uphold. Not all Christians believe what you believe in that regard. Also, I think people would find it hard to run for President on a pure theological platform. Especially in a country with so many faiths and cultures. They wouldn't make it very far.
quote:
I have never heard the term before. I am saying flat out that Obama is not a Christian. Rather he is a follower of James Cones theology known as black liberation theology. The theology he aligned himself and his family with for 20 years.
Let's not forget that Obama renounced Wright but NEVER did he renounce the theology of the church his family is baptised into.
We just had one run under the republican for presidential nominee ticket. It's not rare where I come from. It's not uncommon for truly godly men and women of God who know their bible to have God call them to places of public service.
I would not classify Palin as a scholar but she is certainly a bible student with more knowledge and understanding of how to apply that knowledge than the other candidates.
I don't think we should get into saying who is a Christian and who isn't based on theological differences. We all know that Christians hold a wide range of theologies. Some bordering on the occult. But to say they are not Christians is not something you or I have the authority to declare. I disagree with the holiness theology. That doesn't mean that I feel they aren't Christian in their beliefs. Some aspects of theology are cultural. What all Christians should agree on is who Christ is and what He stood for, and the final authority of the Bible. Even some Catholics believe that the Pope is the final authority. Those wre debates that are to be held in other threads anyway.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:28:25 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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Still waiting for reply to post 53?
Anyone care to respond to my simple questions?
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:34:57 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5388
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quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
Also, I'm no so sure he condones homosexuality.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Civil_Rights.htm#Gay_Rights
Sure he does...
Homosexuality no more immoral than heterosexuality
A reporter asked Obama, "What do you think about General Pace's comments that homosexuality is immoral?" Obama said, "I think traditionally the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman has restricted his public comments to military matters. That's a good tradition to follow. I think the question here is whether somebody is willing to sacrifice for their country, should they be able to? If they are doing all the things that are needed to be done."
Obama later said, "I don't think homosexuals are immoral any more than I think heterosexuals are immoral." Obama has taken a forthright stand calling for the end of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. He said, "It is time to review the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy and do what is in the best interests of our national security. At time when the services are having a tough time recruiting and training troops, it seems foolish to kick out good soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who want to serve."
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.115 Oct 30, 2007
Legal rights for gays are conferred by state, not by church
Q: You have said in previous debates that it is up to individual religious denominations to decide whether or not to recognize same-sex marriage. What place does the church have in government-sanctioned civil marriages?
A: It is my strong belief that the government has to treat all citizens equally. I don't think that the church should be making these determinations when it comes to legal rights conferred by the state. I do think that individual denominations have the right to make their own decisions as to whether they recognize same sex couples. My denomination, United Church of Christ, does. Other denominations may make a decision, and obviously, part of keeping a separation of churches and state is also to make sure that churches have the right to exercise their freedom of religion.
Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
Please notice he mentions his church at that time recognized same sex couples... That point alone renders a church apostate...
Being gay or lesbian is not a choice
Q: You had one supporter on a Bible tour in South Carolina who said that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by prayer. Do you believe homosexuality's a curse?
A: No.
Q: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay or that you can change your behavior?
A: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I disagree with [that supporter]. But part of what I hope to offer as president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree with, and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant progress on critical issues that we face, we've got to be able to get beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like. I've tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell them very clearly where I disagree.
Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series Nov 11, 2007
quote:
Even we as Christians are supposed to condemn the practice but love and respect the person.
Where does the bible mention respect in that context?
quote:
As a people, they should have rights. Just as Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindu have rights. Are they a religion, no. But they are a group. And all groups in this country deserve the same rights as others. Else it's discrimination.
Christians are to support rights for sexual perversion?
quote:
Condemn the sin, not the person.
The person is condemned by their actions... If one recites the law of God it doesn't condemn one who breaks it, the act of breaking the law condemns them, and not just the sin...
quote:
I that aspect, Obama is for equal rights for the people who practice homosexuality where civil unions are concerned, not necessarily the practice itself. If I'm not mistaken, I've heard Obama mention civil unions, not the the traditional definition of marriage. That's very important.
It's semantics... Gay unions are gay marriages. Calling it something else isn't fooling God...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:38:03 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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quote:
Then it is up to each of us to vote for those state reps who will be our voice. I think people forget they have a voice in state and local matters as well and the federal government is not the end all be all
Does the federal government require that each state recognize the marriages of another state? Or can we each pick and choose whose legal marriages we will honor in each state? Do you believe if each state was free to decide the federal government would be "forced" to step in and make laws concerning this?
quote:
Hate crimes against any individual for any reason should be against the law.
There should be no "hate crimes" laws then. Because these laws "select" who can be a target of hate and who cannot. There is no hate crime laws to protect those of us who are not homosexual.
quote:
And whether or not a homosexual adopts a child is wright or wrong is your opinion and shouldn't be a law. Studies have shown there is no adverse affect on children growing up in same sex unions. Perhaps we should try to solve the source of why there are so many children to adopt.
So spiritural effect means nothing to you. Growing up in a home where we are told being a homosexual is OK and even ordained by God is not going to have a negative effect on the child.
quote:
Because that is subjective. You think he should uphold certain things according to your personal beliefs that YOU think every Christian should uphold.
Allowing a perfectly healthy baby's head come out of it's mother's body and having a doctor stick a knife into it is subjective. Yep I hear you loud and clear.
Teaching our children in public mandated schools that homosexuality is normal is ok in your opinion. Yep I hear you loud and clear.
quote:
Also, I think people would find it hard to run for President on a pure theological platform. Especially in a country with so many faiths and cultures. They wouldn't make it very far.
Yep with so much "sin"....that is what other faiths are....forms of idolatry. It's sin. It's rebellion against God. Men love the darkness and run to it. But with God all things are possible.
quote:
I don't think we should get into saying who is a Christian and who isn't based on theological differences.
That is exactly what we are to base it on. Their beliefs.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:42:57 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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quote:
Obama later said, "I don't think homosexuals are immoral any more than I think heterosexuals are immoral."
Thanks John for the quote. It appears to me that Obama does not believe God's word is a standard to be applied when we decide what is moral and what is not. Just as he has decided on the abortion/partial birth abortion issue.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:46:18 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Do you agree with what he said?
Are you in the least troubled by it? Yes or No and why?
What is "your" understanding of the sermon on the mount and why it is completely inline with Romans 13 where God ordains the government and the use of the sword?
Do you find it troubling that Obama who says that we are not reading our bibles know these passages are completely compatable and go hand and hand yet Obama does not?
sorry pw, im going to try to answer.. i saw the video myself last week and then re-watched it today to refresh my memory.
he sounds like he is not making fun of the Bible, but instead the hypocrisy of people that take one part out to suit them and not the other parts. I have heard gay people use that same typeof speech when we tell them homosexuality is a sin according to Leviticus and Dueteronomy. Sounded like he is challenging people to see which parts of the Bible are you going to use to direct his choices with defending our country.
It would have been better if he would have used correct exegesis, not isigesis, in his speech. however, he is not there to defend the Bible itself,,, he is there to speak sarcastically against those who do use the Bible to pick verses to support their idea of how to handle defense.
Therefore, I dont look to Obama to support the Bible as I support it, I do not look to Obama to be my religious leader. In fact, I dont look to him to support the same Christian view as i view God.
he clearly has spoken that which is against the Bible as I understand it, namely on abortion (where he says its not up to him to decide when life begins where clearly the Bible does say it),, and i also cannot believe that he spent 20 years of his life in a particular church and for it not to rub off on him and also his attendance at that church for 20 years supporting it and its theology or lack thereof.
I dont look to any politician for the answer.. Even Gov Palin, who claims she is a christian, i dont rely on her either.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:46:39 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5388
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quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
And whether or not a homosexual adopts a child is wright or wrong is your opinion and shouldn't be a law.
Studies have shown there is no adverse affect on children growing up in same sex unions. Perhaps we should try to solve the source of why there are so many children to adopt.
All the studies in the world don't trump the word of God... Someone in complete rebellion against God like a homosexual cannot raise children in the way they should go as commanded in the bible... Anyone advocating known sexual deviants to raise children have issues themselves...
quote:
Because that is subjective. You think he should uphold certain things according to your personal beliefs that YOU think every Christian should uphold. Not all Christians believe what you believe in that regard. Also, I think people would find it hard to run for President on a pure theological platform. Especially in a country with so many faiths and cultures. They wouldn't make it very far.
Doesn't matter if the don't get far since as a Christian one's allegiance is to God first and foremost and support of anything that conflicts is a grave issue...
quote:
I don't think we should get into saying who is a Christian and who isn't based on theological differences.
Unless one desires people to sit in apostate churches like Mr Obama did for 20 years how can one not? Believing what the bible clearly says is sinful is ok with ok God is beyond theological differences.
quote:
We all know that Christians hold a wide range of theologies. Some bordering on the occult. But to say they are not Christians is not something you or I have the authority to declare.
Actually we do and more so have an obligation to speak up... Silence has led to lesbian pastors, churches like Obama's recognizing same sex unions, and other evil agendas...
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 10/13/2008 12:57:28 PM >
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:50:20 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5388
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Obama later said, "I don't think homosexuals are immoral any more than I think heterosexuals are immoral."
Thanks John for the quote. It appears to me that Obama does not believe God's word is a standard to be applied when we decide what is moral and what is not. Just as he has decided on the abortion/partial birth abortion issue.
What's strange is Obama's stance on certain issues is clearly stated yet those who support him seem to be a fog on them... Go figure...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:52:23 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
he clearly has spoken that which is against the Bible as I understand it
Thanks you.
quote:
he sounds like he is not making fun of the Bible, but instead the hypocrisy of people that take one part out to suit them and not the other parts.
He is making fun of Christians and mocking the bible by not telling the people the truth about the passages concerning slavery and stoning inlight of the NT. He does this because he does not want anyone to hold him to the standards of scripture/God. He wants to make his own standards based on his own theology.
He is doing exactly what you claim he is doing but going even farther. He is using one part of the bible to say it's all irrevelant. That's more than just a little dangerous. He has put himself above God.
quote:
I dont look to any politician for the answer.. Even Gov Palin, who claims she is a christian, i dont rely on her either.
I hope none of us do. What I do hope and pray is that Christians will not support a candidate who openly rejects God's word and even goes directly against it in his desire to make laws. I pray that Christians will try to the best of their ability to vote in leaders who uphold God's standards of right and wrong and will encourage people to live by God's standards not mock them for all the world to see.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:56:05 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
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ORIGINAL: P31W
Do you agree with what he said?
Are you in the least troubled by it? Yes or No and why?
What is "your" understanding of the sermon on the mount and why it is completely inline with Romans 13 where God ordains the government and the use of the sword?
Do you find it troubling that Obama who says that we are not reading our bibles know these passages are completely compatable and go hand and hand yet Obama does not?
sorry pw, im going to try to answer.. i saw the video myself last week and then re-watched it today to refresh my memory.
he sounds like he is not making fun of the Bible, but instead the hypocrisy of people that take one part out to suit them and not the other parts. I have heard gay people use that same typeof speech when we tell them homosexuality is a sin according to Leviticus and Dueteronomy. Sounded like he is challenging people to see which parts of the Bible are you going to use to direct his choices with defending our country.
It would have been better if he would have used correct exegesis, not isigesis, in his speech. however, he is not there to defend the Bible itself,,, he is there to speak sarcastically against those who do use the Bible to pick verses to support their idea of how to handle defense.
Therefore, I dont look to Obama to support the Bible as I support it, I do not look to Obama to be my religious leader. In fact, I dont look to him to support the same Christian view as i view God.
he clearly has spoken that which is against the Bible as I understand it, namely on abortion (where he says its not up to him to decide when life begins where clearly the Bible does say it),, and i also cannot believe that he spent 20 years of his life in a particular church and for it not to rub off on him and also his attendance at that church for 20 years supporting it and its theology or lack thereof.
I dont look to any politician for the answer.. Even Gov Palin, who claims she is a christian, i dont rely on her either.
He's there trying to balance the fact he claims Christ while on the other hand supporting that which clearly conflicts with Christ and His word... Of course the bible is clear we cannot be double minded... It's clear God if first, being that He is jealous and doesn't like to share... A house divided will fall...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: :: 0bama Mocking the Bible? - 10/13/2008 12:57:41 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1663
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: P31W
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he clearly has spoken that which is against the Bible as I understand it
Thanks you.
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he sounds like he is not making fun of the Bible, but instead the hypocrisy of people that take one part out to suit them and not the other parts.
He is making fun of Christians and mocking the bible by not telling the people the truth about the passages concerning slavery and stoning inlight of the NT. He does this because he does not want anyone to hold him to the standards of scripture/God. He wants to make his own standards based on his own theology.
He is doing exactly what you claim he is doing but going even farther. He is using one part of the bible to say it's all irrevelant. That's more than just a little dangerous. He has put himself above God.
Yeah i can agree with you on that. i also think that when he made the statement that its above his payscale to decide when life begins is a fillibustery statement - noncommittal - where he doesn't have to take a stand.. that will lose him votes.
but at least you know where he stands or doesn't stand. you shall know them by their fruits.
a lot of people can call themself a christian, but it does not mean that they are. So far, as a human being, Obama believes in abortion, gay rights, and he has said so. Thats what i listen to... what he says. I dont try to say "how can he be a christian and say those things?" he has his own interpretation of what he believes. He clearly has shown us that he is not bleieving the bible as we see it. He has a liberal view of ethical things such as abortion and gay rights.
there are those other characters that he has hung around with, that is up for interpretation too.. some poeple feel those ACORN, Ayers, jeremiah wright, etc. have some significance, and others feel they are no significance. What do you think? guilt by association? red flags? or is he able to rise above those characters influence in his life.. That is my current question!
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