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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/13/2008 2:01:59 PM
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Little_1
Posts: 1487
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rumely
Here's a thought to toss in the mix. In the case of the one asking for money, would your giving that person money actually help them, or would it perpetuate their problem by allowing them to continue to mismanage their money?
They don't manage their money well. They spend it on trivialities at times. However, they have 2 little children and I couldn't see the kids go without food or heating. I give for the sake of the children but I do wish the parent would wise up because I may not always be able to help out as I do and this is what really concerns me.
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/13/2008 8:12:31 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6024
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
They don't manage their money well. They spend it on trivialities at times. However, they have 2 little children and I couldn't see the kids go without food or heating. I give for the sake of the children but I do wish the parent would wise up because I may not always be able to help out as I do and this is what really concerns me.
Little 1
That's why she keeps asking then, because you keep effectively rewarding her asking. You don't have to be giving money in order to support them (and btw, do you really know that the money you are giving them is going on things that will benefit the children?)
If the issue is food, then you could buy them the actual food or give grocery vouchers. I don't know where you live, but if you're in the USA then there could well be an Angel Food Ministries (link) for your area. Giving that way would IMO be better than giving money, as would, say buying clothes for the children, for example.
I can understand why you give, but actually you are actually inadvertently enabling her irresponsible lifestyle. Why should she need to sort herself out when she has you to keep rescuing her?
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/13/2008 8:28:58 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1264
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Hi Ms Little,
It's good that you listen to them, but if they won't take your advice or try to fix their lives, then they are just sucking the life out of you and you don't have to hear it. You may have to say simply, I'm sorry, but I've told you what I think and since it seems you don't want to fix your life, I don't want to hear it. You have to draw the line in the sand. It's not going to hurt them and might even put a fire under them. Hang in there, dear.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
Galatians 6:2
Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
The Bible teaches us to "bear one another's burdens......" but what does this really mean?
I'm in a situation where I am weary listening to certain family members' moans and groans and I don't want to answer their phone calls, etc? I offer advice and they just don't take it. I'm speaking about close family members. One is a Christian (backslidden) and the other is not. One is a hypochondriac (non Christian) and the other worries about everything and is so negative (this is the backslidden Christian).
I can't ignore them because as I say, they are very close family members but how far do we go when bearing one another's burdens?
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/13/2008 8:30:09 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1264
Joined: 4/12/2005
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If they're not caring for the kids, then you might have to call social services to check on them. It might be a wake up call to the parents.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rumely
Here's a thought to toss in the mix. In the case of the one asking for money, would your giving that person money actually help them, or would it perpetuate their problem by allowing them to continue to mismanage their money?
They don't manage their money well. They spend it on trivialities at times. However, they have 2 little children and I couldn't see the kids go without food or heating. I give for the sake of the children but I do wish the parent would wise up because I may not always be able to help out as I do and this is what really concerns me.
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/13/2008 10:47:21 PM
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OneJohn410
Posts: 1231
Joined: 6/1/2008
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How far do we go to bear another's burdens?
I really like this post below. No one has mentioned it in this way, but always as a side action. Has anyone ever prayed with someone about something over the phone? Not reccommended on a cell phone while you are driving, even with a hands-free Bluetooth thing (a Blueear). Just ask them right there if they'd like to pray about it. Let them start it, and then close it for them.
This establishes that YES! this pesky, continuing problem has indeed been shared with the Lord, and that with the next call its time to move things along to have you heard anything from the HS about it. Or in the case of the backslider, has your concscience convicted you on anything about this situ? Some things may just need an earthly master of ceremonies, as it were, to keep the show moving along.
OneJohn410
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
How far do we go?
We stop when the benefit to them becomes a way of life and expected. We stop when the rely on us rather than the abilities God has given them to supply for their needs. We stop when they elevate our importance over God's.
In essence, when they rely upon man and take God out of it.
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The Lord is my strength and shield. I trust Him with all my heart. He helps me, and my heart is filled with joy. I burst out in songs of thanksgiving. Psalm 28:7
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/13/2008 11:32:50 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1892
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Sorry, L1, but I've had a busy weekend and today was the same.
But I think we need to look at Galatians to understand what God is saying regarding bearing one another's burdens. Galatians 5 is about those who are not walking by the spirit and have become fleshly. Paul goes into great detail about the deeds of the flesh and ends this chapter with the fruit of the spirit and the command to walk by the spirit.
In Galatians 6 Paul speaks to how to deal with others who are caught in sin and the second verse is the one you quoted in the OP, "bear one another's burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ." I don't think there is any question that the burdens we are to bear for others IS the sin they have to deal with. The context is quite clear.
So how do we bear their sin? We need to understand what 'bearing' means. Bearing means to support, hold up, carry, suffer, endure or tolerate. We cannot change others. That is a work of God. So our bearing their burden is our patient reliance on God through prayer to do the work He has promised to do, crying out to Him on their behalf and believing for them. Many times they do not and will not even see the sin they are caught in. That is why our intercession for them is so important. And it is a true bearing because we know the weight of sin and in a sense we are carrying it for them until God opens their eyes.
I have a number of people who I pray for who need to be brought to the place of repentance in their lives. I cannot repent for them. But the Lord has chosen to show me the sin they have so that I will bear this burden and pray for them. The Lord has been so patient with me and He uses these opportunities to teach me to be as He is---patiently bearing the sin burden that they remain oblivious to. And so I do.
A number of those I have prayed for over the years have been brought to the place of repentance. It is a glorious place of freedom when they are freed from a burden of sin they have carried for some time.
I don't know if that will prove helpful to you in understanding your friends but I believe this is the way in which we are to bear the burdens of others.
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/14/2008 2:02:26 AM
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Little_1
Posts: 1487
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
......I can understand why you give, but actually you are actually inadvertently enabling her irresponsible lifestyle. Why should she need to sort herself out when she has you to keep rescuing her?
Yes - there is this very danger. I am listening to the spiritual side of what I should do and also to the practical side of things and praying for a wise conclusion.
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/14/2008 7:35:28 AM
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growingseed
Posts: 161
Joined: 5/24/2005
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There is an element that we have not really understood so that it's manifested in our lives, and that is the second commandment to "love your neighbor", this is without any doubt to be as one with the father in application. It's not about me or you, it's about allowing the lord to pass through us to whom ever is on the receiving end. Jesus knowing our hearts better then ourselves places this duty of knowing that those who love have a relationship with the father. Pick a John, gospel, first, second, or better listen to what Jesus has to say about the depth of love, and what loving others is all about. Is there a distance, or are we saying this is as far as i will go?
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/14/2008 8:22:41 AM
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growingseed
Posts: 161
Joined: 5/24/2005
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When we start listening to man more then we do Jesus is the beginning of slow growth. When Jesus died on the cross it was for everyone who would come to him, and what is our part, is to make sure that we don't focus on ourselves but rely on the spirit to help us to contiune to move forward in a direction that others will be able to see the Love that changes the heart. If you need scriptures there are alot, but it's easier to relate what i'm learning, cause being a weak servant have asked the Lord to show me where i need to grow. That's the peace and joy of being a Christian is that we are always learning through faith in the spirit of always growing, and the end results is that we are pointing others to the cross.
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/14/2008 8:30:41 AM
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Little_1
Posts: 1487
Status: offline
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What have I decided to do after all of this?
I will continue to pray for both individuals. That one will come to know the Lord and that the other will return to the Lord. I have decided that each time the negative relative speaks negatively, I will direct the conversation in another direction and if she directs it back again, I will tell her that I would rather speak about something more uplifting.
There is not 'angels of mercy' missions where we live and so I will continue to give help to the children as long as I am able to (perhaps not money directly but clothes instead).
There is no question that these children are well looked after by their mother. They never go without food or clothes (because their gran and I wouldn't allow this). It's just that their mother overspends on lesser important things sometimes and once she realises she has done this, she worries about food, etc. Sometimes her priorities are misplaced but not through selfish intentions I don't believe. She does put money out on toys for these children (toys which they don't need admittedly). She is a single parent and I do believe part of her problem is that she is trying to compensate for the children's father not being around or bothering with them. I think she spends money to block out pain if this makes sense.
Perhaps my heart is melting through praying more about it. I'm not sure. Until the Lord shows me otherwise, these are my intentions.
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/14/2008 12:46:27 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1892
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: growingseed
There is an element that we have not really understood so that it's manifested in our lives, and that is the second commandment to "love your neighbor", this is without any doubt to be as one with the father in application. It's not about me or you, it's about allowing the lord to pass through us to whom ever is on the receiving end. Jesus knowing our hearts better then ourselves places this duty of knowing that those who love have a relationship with the father. Pick a John, gospel, first, second, or better listen to what Jesus has to say about the depth of love, and what loving others is all about. Is there a distance, or are we saying this is as far as i will go?
Amen, growingseed. I am right with you. Yes, it is the self life, the love of ME, that impedes His work in us and His flow out of us. He cannot pass through us when we are still filled with blak. . . yuck. . .of the self life. Or perhaps I should say He WILL not. He can do anything but He will not override our self will. So we must die.
And, yes, the limit one places on how far they will go is often, mistakenly, justified with God's word. It is His word misunderstood and misapplied to protect, defend, and guard the unwilling ME.
I see this in myself. My sis and bil were just here for the weekend and I see ME more when with this sis than anyone else. And I pray, Lord, give me life. Kill off this ugly me and fill me with Yourself.
Bless you, growingseed.
BTW, L1, I'm responding to her comments and not thinking of or directing them in any way specifically to you.  LL
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RE: How far do we go......? - 10/14/2008 12:49:59 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1892
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: growingseed
When we start listening to man more then we do Jesus is the beginning of slow growth. When Jesus died on the cross it was for everyone who would come to him, and what is our part, is to make sure that we don't focus on ourselves but rely on the spirit to help us to contiune to move forward in a direction that others will be able to see the Love that changes the heart. If you need scriptures there are alot, but it's easier to relate what i'm learning, cause being a weak servant have asked the Lord to show me where i need to grow. That's the peace and joy of being a Christian is that we are always learning through faith in the spirit of always growing, and the end results is that we are pointing others to the cross.
And again, Amen, growingseed. And the listening can even be to good Bible teachers. We each individually need to be seekers of Jesus and listening to what the Spirit says---not man. I hear you. And, yes, I understand what you are saying. Bless you. LL
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