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[Poll]
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The Whiners Thread
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| Everything is hunky dory |
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| The preacher didn't shake my hand |
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| I almost drowned during my baptism |
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| They will let anyone sing specials... |
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| The preacher is preaching to me |
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| Music is always rock-n-roll and loud |
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| No one ever calls me when I'm out |
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| It's too cold in there |
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| All the mixed perfume smells drive me crazy |
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| Don't click here |
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Total Votes : 435
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(last vote on : 11/20/2008 7:04:53 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: The 1-Stop Whiners Thread - 9/4/2008 3:20:32 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Like I said, I'd rather watch paint dry than listen to just chords on a piano.
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RE: The 1-Stop Whiners Thread - 9/4/2008 3:50:12 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
I have to constantly ask myself, what does God want me to do/think/feel about this, what should my attitude be? So I pray a lot during the worship, sometimes just read my Bible, and try to not think about it too much.
This I understand. I used to run the AV department at my old church... and part of that was running PowerPoint. It drives me crazy when I'm visiting a church and the PowerPoint is not coordinated with the music... like changing slides (The words, whatever) on beat... or changing slides period.
Worship is a very important time. Combine the right song with the right moment all orchestrated by the Holy Spirit... and someone could be ready to break. Mess it all up with a distracting PowerPoint operator... and... kablooie!
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: The 1-Stop Whiners Thread - 9/4/2008 7:26:09 PM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 2104
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt
Actually, I have to take issue with this one. Done correctly, playing the chordal accompaniment is very fun and can be exciting, too, especially if you have a keyboard with synth patches. Doing it just right to fit the music is an art and a talent, believe me.
shallbe
Knock yourself out. But I was a music major and have played & arranged for our church orchestra since 1992. I'd rather watch paint dry than listen to just chords.
Jimbo, did you know I agree with most of your opinions...those few that I've read, anyway? However, stomaching your tactless way of presenting them has been difficult for me.
I would rather not listen to "just chords" either. But if you go back and read the posts in question, there would be other instruments playing, along with voices. You may remember from your studies in music that often "less is more". The more instruments playing, the less each has to do--especially in an area the size of the average sanctuary. In addition, when playing from a chord sheet, one is allowed, even expected, to tastefully add improvisation and rhythm.
My favorite form of that when I was part of a praise band was to scream away on the Hammon B3 patch...on the right songs, of course. 
Too fun!
shallbe
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/4/2008 8:46:02 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4467
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I do my best to keep my smells to myself.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/4/2008 11:27:57 PM
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2Preacher
Posts: 142
Joined: 2/7/2008
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I tend to get aggravated with too much fault finding. My way of worship may not be yours and vice versa, but the important thing is God's feeling on the subject. He is the one who matters.
I've been a pastor for most of the last 20 years. I have heard a lot of complaints from a lot of people. I have heard people sing that, quite literally, could not carry a tune in a bucket. I have seen people play instruments that could not read music. I have even heard some pretty shabby excuses for sermons in my time (some were mine) but the one question I always ask myself is "who gets the glory? Is it God or the individual?"
The answer sometimes comes back that it is the individual and that breaks my heart. We are supposed to bring glory to God not our selves. I have actually known people to get offended because they did not get as much of a "pat on the back" for their "performance" as they thought themselves worthy. That makes me sad and sick to my stomach at the same time.
I would rather hear a song sung off-key and off-tune by a believer who has a sweet testimony for the Lord and only does it for God's glory any day than to hear the same song done perfectly by someone who is seeking the glory for themselves.
I would rather see people serve the Lord with a good heart attitude out of love and for his glory any day than to see them serve only for the gratitude and applause of men.
ONLY God deserves the glory. ALL of our gifts whether they be singing, writing, preaching, playing the piano or another musical instrument come from the hand of God himself. "It is he that has made us and not we ourselves." We are NOTHING without HIM and we need to realize it.
We need to praise him and be forever grateful for his great gifts both to ourselves and those in the church even when those "gifts" don't seem to be so pleasant to our ears. Remember God is the only judge who KNOWS the heart, we only see the outside. If God is pleased with what he sees and hears, that is all that matters.
2Preacher
"Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight O Lord, my strength and my redeemer" Ps. 19:14
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 12:50:59 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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I have a major whine, but I can't post it, because I would alienate friends even more than I already have. Therefore, I will just sit about and have a pity party all by myself.
WEEP!
Reminds me of an old song I heard a couple times -- if I can remember some of the words:
Gloom, despair & agony on me,
Deep dark depression, excessive misery;
Ef et warn't for bad luck,
Ah'd have no luck at all . . . .
That's all I remember. 
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 1:02:33 AM
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sisrev
Posts: 886
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: The South, ya'll
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Preacher
I would rather hear a song sung off-key and off-tune by a believer who has a sweet testimony for the Lord and only does it for God's glory any day than to hear the same song done perfectly by someone who is seeking the glory for themselves.
I would rather see people serve the Lord with a good heart attitude out of love and for his glory any day than to see them serve only for the gratitude and applause of men.
ONLY God deserves the glory. ALL of our gifts whether they be singing, writing, preaching, playing the piano or another musical instrument come from the hand of God himself. "It is he that has made us and not we ourselves." We are NOTHING without HIM and we need to realize it.
We need to praise him and be forever grateful for his great gifts both to ourselves and those in the church even when those "gifts" don't seem to be so pleasant to our ears. Remember God is the only judge who KNOWS the heart, we only see the outside. If God is pleased with what he sees and hears, that is all that matters.
All gifts are from the Lord, you are correct, but some folks mess up when they would rather do something that God has obviously not gifted or called them to do.
We can all make a joyful noise unto the Lord, but we are not all called to get up in front of the congregation to do so.
Some people have the mistaken notion that if they get up and declare that they are doing it "for the glory of God" that it's okay to do a poor, ill-prepared job.
Every one wants to be on the praise & worship team, but nobody wants to serve the tables at the pot-luck dinner, or heaven forbid, clean up afterwards. Everybody wants to be the next Billy Graham, but nobody wants to be the janitor.
If God calls them, He will equip them, and if He hasn't done so, they need to examine their heart and see if their noble reason for doing so is really so noble after all.
_____________________________
My new blog, A Virtuous Woman
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 1:05:00 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 926
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Indianapolis, IN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Gloom, despair & agony on me,
Deep dark depression, excessive misery;
Ef et warn't for bad luck,
Ah'd have no luck at all . . . .
I remember that song! It came from the TV show Hee Haw that my family watched every Saturday evening when I was a kid! There was a new verse every week about various hilarious disasters.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 1:06:35 AM
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sisrev
Posts: 886
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: The South, ya'll
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Reminds me of an old song I heard a couple times -- if I can remember some of the words:
Gloom, despair & agony on me,
Deep dark depression, excessive misery;
Ef et warn't for bad luck,
Ah'd have no luck at all . . . .
That's all I remember.
Yes'm, that's from the old Hee Haw show:
Gloom, despair, & agony on me
Deep dark depression, excessive misery;
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all,
Gloom, despair, and agony on meeeeeee!
_____________________________
My new blog, A Virtuous Woman
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 1:57:59 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
Abiyah, did someone destroy your mail box? I will get them :-W
Hee-hee! Nope! I haven't built it yet. That's going to take awhile.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 10:51:21 AM
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2Preacher
Posts: 142
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Some people have the mistaken notion that if they get up and declare that they are doing it "for the glory of God" that it's okay to do a poor, ill-prepared job.
Sisrev:
I completely agree with you here and I think it is an absolute disgrace when people do this. It is never "OK" to do less than ones best in the service of God. We should always look our "best" and "do" our best for Him. A holy perfect God deserves ONLY our absolute best.
Doing as you have posted above (the quote) and saying that you are doing it "for the Glory of God" is hypocritical at best and shows just how lazy some people are in their preparation. On the other hand, what should a worship leader do in those cases?
quote:
some folks mess up when they would rather do something that God has obviously not gifted or called them to do.
Again, I fully agree with you. Can you really judge the "call" or "gift" of God on a particular person? Just a thought. It is a bit off topic for this thread.
quote:
Every one wants to be on the praise & worship team, but nobody wants to serve the tables at the pot-luck dinner, or heaven forbid, clean up afterwards. Everybody wants to be the next Billy Graham, but nobody wants to be the janitor.
Again, I fully agree. Note the highlighted words above. They indicate the reason. It's PRIDE and SELF PROMOTION. "Everyone wants to be "in front of the crowd and receive the applause of men, to be recognized for their efforts, etc. The Devil uses this innocent human desire to steal the glory from God. There is nothing wrong with "wanting to", but Leaders (those in charge) should be discerning as to the "reason" for the "want to" attitude. It is a difficult and sticky call but it is needed.
"Nobody wants to SERVE" because often times there is no recognition in service. Even here the motivation is key. Some people just don't want to
to be viewed as a "servant," but, that is what JESUS WAS, isn't it???
quote:
If God calls them, He will equip them, and if He hasn't done so, they need to examine their heart and see if their noble reason for doing so is really so noble after all.
Again, I agree fully, but this is getting "off topic" rather quickly. So, to get back on topic I will end this with a GREAT BIG WHINE OF MINE.
In keeping with "giving God our best", I have to whine about the way some folks dress when they attend church services. I realize that God takes us "as we are" but come on folks? Flip flops, shorts (even SHORT shorts), Tee shirts, etc. are they really appropriate dress for church services?????????
Church services (Sunday A.M. and P.M. and Wednesday), especially around our house, has always been a time to dress up and wear our best. When I was a kid, and even now, I would not "dream" of wearing a pair of faded, hole filled, blue jeans, shorts, or any such thing to church. It just isn't the place for that.
I realize that any thing can be taken to extremes and, believe me, I've seen plenty of people do just that even with dress. I am not saying that only dresses on women or suits on men are appropriate for church. If your "best" is a new pair of jeans and a tee shirt - that is acceptable.
I realize that this is a matter of preference for some folks and that times have changed a lot. I don't preach or push it on others, but shouldn't we give our best and look our best when we COME TO WORSHIP the one who gave HIS BEST, HIS ONLY SON, FOR US???? It is a simple matter of respect for ones self and the house and people of God.
It has gotten so bad that now even PREACHERS, in an effort to identify with people and appear to be "one of the guys" have started wearing jeans and tee shirts in the pulpit. I just don't understand this. Call me "OLD School". Call me a "prude" if you like, but I just don't understand and it really bothers me because I love the Lord and respect his house and people so much. God didn't call me to be "one of the guys" he called me to be HIS MAN and part of that is maintaining a separation of sorts which is necessary for a leader to maintain. I am not saying that a minister should not be friendly and identify with his people. We are human. But some have taken it too far. Who do we please, God or man?
Before some one accuses me of being self righteous in this, I don't attach this to anyone's salvation. The way a person dresses doesn't make them any more of a believer than anyone else but it does say something about the character of the person male or female.
2Preacher
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 11:26:44 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Preacher
. . . I will end this with a GREAT BIG WHINE OF MINE.
In keeping with "giving God our best", I have to whine about the way some folks dress when they attend church services. . . . Church services (Sunday A.M. and P.M. and Wednesday), especially around our house, has always been a time to dress up and wear our best. When I was a kid, and even now, I would not "dream" of wearing a pair of faded, hole filled, blue jeans, shorts, or any such thing to church. It just isn't the place for that.
Hey! Some people pay a lot of money in order to get "a pair of faded, hole filled, blue jeans"!! Those things can be as much as $200! Those may be their best! And even if they did not pay that much, they may have spent a lot of time getting those jeans that way!
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Preacher
. . . shouldn't we give our best and look our best when we COME TO WORSHIP the one who gave HIS BEST, HIS ONLY SON, FOR US???? It is a simple matter of respect for ones self and the house and people of God.
It has gotten so bad that now even PREACHERS, in an effort to identify with people and appear to be "one of the guys" have started wearing jeans and tee shirts in the pulpit. I just don't understand this.
Well, I was called to be His WOMAN, and I occasionally wear jeans to the service and/or class. I see these rules as additional, not biblical. Dress is of no consequence to G-d, except when it comes to modesty, so my WHINE is that people get so shook about this. (But I love you anyway, Preach!)
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Preacher
Call me "OLD School". Call me a "prude" if you like, Okay! 
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Preacher
but I just don't understand and it really bothers me because I love the Lord and respect his house and people so much. God didn't call me to be "one of the guys" he called me to be HIS MAN and part of that is maintaining a separation of sorts which is necessary for a leader to maintain.
This has always been curious to me -- separation. G-d never called any leader to be separate from those s/he leads. G-d called them to serve. I always wondered at those who thought they had to place themselves upon a pedestal above the ones they "lead." I am sure this is not what you intended, though -- right?
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Preacher
I am not saying that a minister should not be friendly and identify with his people. We are human. But some have taken it too far. Who do we please, God or man?
If we all dress up because people think we ought to, is that not pleasing people, because G-d never said to dress up to meet with Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Preacher
Before some one accuses me of being self righteous in this, I don't attach this to anyone's salvation. The way a person dresses doesn't make them any more of a believer than anyone else but it does say something about the character of the person male or female.
2Preacher
Well, I do attach the way people dress with their salvation. I'll admit it. My persistent whine is people who dress immodestly to attend services -- the ones who have done it in my presence. It irritates me to no end. It's my whine. I could not care less if someone comes in jeans, whether holy, holey, or wholly, but at least dress modestly when you go out in public, for good night.
But there have been many threads about not wearing jeans and t-shirts to services. 
Maybe we should start another one? 
No, I guess not.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 11:27:49 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
I think it is a mountain. I am not sure....It was a sticker for Cru...asking people to join the missions. I forget exactly what it was called. I was showing it off tho...It isn't actually on the shirt...
I am still up because I miss my family. I have tons on my mind. And wish I had my Mom here...
I wish you did, too. Why don't you go visit? Can you get away?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 4:13:22 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3643
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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This is absolutely exciting -- that you may have landed a job! Fantastic!! I am praying . . . .
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 4:31:26 PM
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2Preacher
Posts: 142
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2Preacher
but I just don't understand and it really bothers me because I love the Lord and respect his house and people so much. God didn't call me to be "one of the guys" he called me to be HIS MAN and part of that is maintaining a separation of sorts which is necessary for a leader to maintain.'
Covan_Meshuga:
This has always been curious to me -- separation. G-d never called any leader to be separate from those s/he leads. G-d called them to serve. I always wondered at those who thought they had to place themselves upon a pedestal above the ones they "lead." I am sure this is not what you intended, though -- right?
No, I did not mean it that way. I am a servant to my people working right along side them and involved in their lives as I should be. But just like a "parent" has to be the "parent" sometimes and cannot be his/her child's best friend all the time, a pastor has to be the same. It's the hardest thing one has to do, but it must be done sometimes.
Me, I am just a sinner saved by grace like all the rest of the congregation. I am capable of sinning and doing wrong just like any one else. It is only by God's grace that I am kept from it.
quote:
Well, I do attach the way people dress with their salvation. I'll admit it. My persistent whine is people who dress immodestly to attend services -- the ones who have done it in my presence. It irritates me to no end. It's my whine. I could not care less if someone comes in jeans, whether holy, holey, or wholly, but at least dress modestly when you go out in public, for good night.
Abiyah, this is my point as well. Perhaps I should have said it differently. Modesty is the Biblical standard, not style or type of dress. What I meant to "whine" about is the immodest and disrespectful way that people dress in the house of God.
I disagree with you as to it's having anything to do with their salvation though. I think the problem is that some folks have never been taught about modesty either in the secular or religious world. Just look around you. We let "Hollywood" and the rest of society dictate what is stylish and what is not. The problem is, most of it any more, is very immodest.
Instead of having standards and convictions about how we dress in public which are Biblical. We seek to be stylish and "with it". In so doing we are only pleasing ourselves and not God. Like I said before, it is all in the MOTIVE of the HEART and who we are trying to please - the world, ourselves, or God. For me I choose modesty because it pleases God.
Nice talking to you. I appreciate your thoughts.
2Preacher
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RE: The Whiners Thread - 9/5/2008 4:32:38 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
Posts: 5074
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
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much thanks for the praying Abiyah. You better?
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