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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/14/2008 6:19:53 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1639
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quote:
And I say unto you, whosoever shall put away (separates from) his wife (without giving a Certificate of Divorcement), except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away (only separates from their spouse) doth commit adultery.”
Wow, talk about adding to the Word of God! Never does Jesus mention that the METHOD of putting away must be correct in order for union to be dissolved. He is talking about putting away---PERIOD---and the hardness involved in forsaking the one God joins them to. I can see why people have to add to God's Word, because if they take Jesus at His Word without adding their commentary, it is easily seen that Jesus rejects divorce as dissolving the union He has joined together, hence entering into a new union is adultery, not a valid marriage.
quote:
The disciples replied to Jesus that it is better that no man EVER be married. First off, the disciples made an absurd statement and Jesus knew it. If no males would marry females than there would be no one left upon the earth in so many years. Because Jesus knew what they said was absurd, He answered their specific question by stating first that “All cannot accept THIS SAYING — what the disciples said about no one ever getting married, NOT about what Jesus Himself said. Then, He went on to address that if no one ever got married then everyone would be a eunuch. And if everyone was a eunuch then there would not be any life on the earth in so many years. So Jesus told them about eunuchs in verse ten and why they are eunuchs. Then the Lord summed it up by saying that, “He who is ABLE TO ACCEPT IT (what the DISCIPLES SAID regarding being single), let him accept it. The Lord was responding to what the disciples said about never marrying at all because it was that far off course.
Actually, the thing that is absurd is the above explanation. It is quite clear that the disciples understood exactly what Jesus meant. They understood Jesus was teaching that marriage is permanent and once God has joined two into ONE flesh, there is NO LONGER TWO............if one does forsake the marriage and join with another, in God's eyes that new relationship is adultery. He also taught that anyone who marries a divorced person commits adultery. Why? Because the divorce did NOT dissolve the union God joined together. A hard word to take for those who were treating the marriage covenant lightly or thought one could enter and exit marriage.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/14/2008 9:09:16 PM
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SealedEternal
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From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
Therefore, how does Romans 7:1-4 fit into all this? It is simple. Let’s read through it: “ Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman WHO HAS a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives.”
Notice that this is referring to a “woman WHO HAS a husband”! The husband and wife ARE husband and wife. If they were NOT husband and wife then they would not HAVE a husband or a wife. In other words, if you were divorced, widowed or single you would NOT have a husband or wife.
No, the text says if he dies she is free, but if they "divorced" she is not free, and is an adulteress to remarry:
Romans 7:2-3 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, SHE SHALL BE CALLED AN ADULTERESS; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
I Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
That is also why Jesus taught that divorce and remarriage was adultery:
Mark 10:5-12 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment."But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE."FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh."What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "EVERYONE WHO DIVORCES HIS WIFE AND MARRIES ANOTHER COMMITS ADULTERY, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
He says that He joins us and we cannot separate that union, and that if we attempt to and remarry, we enter an adulterous affair. That means that divorce does not end the marriage, because if it did then adultery could not be an issue, but Jesus says it is. When you read all of scripture as a whole it is clear and consistent that death ends the marriage bond and frees one to remarry, while "divorce" does not.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/14/2008 9:28:22 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 956
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
“But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. THEREFORE, MY BRETHREN, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, THAT YOU MAY BE MARRIED TO ANOTHER—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.”
The Apostle Paul is only giving an analogy by referencing the similarities of being “bound” to the Law to being “bound” to one another in a marriage.
Yes, and for an analogy to work the pretext must be true. Paul is using what he knew was a given, which was that marriage is a lifelong union to the extent that divorce and remarriage was adultery. He uses that example to make his point about dying to the letter of the Law to serve the Spirit of it through the death of Christ. If the pretext were not true then Paul's analogy failed and we can assume that either he doesn't understand how to make a proper analogy, or that Christ's death was needless to free us from the letter of the Law. Obviously it is neither of those, and Paul meant exactly what he said.
quote:
The book of Romans is about being dead to the Law in order for us to carry out the Law through a NEW relationship.
No, the Gospel is that Christ sends His Spirit into our hearts so that we serve the Spirit of His Law, and are not subject to the letter. You're missing not only the pretext of Paul's analogy, but the conclusion as well.
quote:
That “new” relationship is in Christ. (See Romans 13:8-10.) Paul is NOT teaching about marriage, or divorce or even remarriage. In other words, the only way for us to break the “marriage” union with the Law is for us to die and then to rise from the dead so the Law will not have dominion over us. This is the whole subject of Romans — NOT about marriage, divorce or remarriage.
Again, if his pretext were false then the whole message is flawed and meaningless. He is using the fact that marriages are indissolvible outside of death to make a case for Christ's death freeing us from the letter of the Law, so if his pretext is false then so is the conclusion. Analogies are based on using a given that everyone understands to make a point about another topic that someone may not understand. The given here is that marriage is indissolvible except by death, and that remarriages where the spouse lives are actually adulterous affairs. He assumed that everyone already understood this to be true, and they should have since Jesus preached it several times recorded in scripture.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/14/2008 9:34:57 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 956
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
There Are Two Things Required To Divorce:
Matthew 19:7, “They say unto him, why did Moses then COMMAND to give a [1.] Writing (Certificate) of Divorcement, AND [2.] to put her away.” It takes two things to be correctly divorced:
Writing of Divorcement (doing the legal thing).
Put away (physically separate from each other).
No, you left out the beginning where Jesus answers the question about whether it is lawful to divorce ones wife, and miss the whole point of the passage
Matthew 19:3-6 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
What you have posted is His answer to an entirely different question, which was about the Laws of Moses and the supposed allowance there. Are you keeping the Laws of Moses? If not, then it is irrelevent to you:
Mark 10:5-12 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment."But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE."FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh."What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "EVERYONE WHO DIVORCES HIS WIFE AND MARRIES ANOTHER COMMITS ADULTERY, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/14/2008 10:20:15 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 956
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
It Is Better NOT To Marry?
Continuing in Matthew 9:10-12, “His disciples said to Him, ‘If such is the case of the man with his wife, IT IS BETTER NOT TO MARRY.’
But He said to them, ‘All cannot accept THIS SAYING, but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept IT (THIS SAYING OF THE DISCIPLES), let him accept it ” ( Matt 19:9-12 ).
The disciples replied to Jesus that it is better that no man EVER be married. First off, the disciples made an absurd statement and Jesus knew it. If no males would marry females than there would be no one left upon the earth in so many years. Because Jesus knew what they said was absurd, He answered their specific question by stating first that “All cannot accept THIS SAYING — what the disciples said about no one ever getting married, NOT about what Jesus Himself said.
What He addressed was the disciples shock that divorce and remarriage is adultery. Here's the quote:
Mark 10:10-12 In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
After the exchange with the Pharisees about this issue, His disciples wanted clarification because they couldn't believe that marriage is so perminent. They were shocked when He again told them that remarriage after a divorce is adultery, to the extent that they replied "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
quote:
Then, He went on to address that if no one ever got married then everyone would be a eunuch.
No, He made the statement about eunuchs to respond to their statement about it being better not to marry if marriage is perminent.
Matthew 19:11-12 But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."
John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me
Matthew 7:21 "NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Not everyone can accept His statement about the perminency of marriage, but only those to whom it is given.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 6:52:10 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2206
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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quote:
Not everyone can accept His statement about the perminency of marriage, but only those to whom it is given.
True, not everyone agrees with your assessment of the scriptures pertaining to the permanency of marriage, especially in regards to one's salvation in connection to said scriptures.
_____________________________
still selling my wonderful home http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 7:36:32 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1639
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
quote:
Not everyone can accept His statement about the perminency of marriage, but only those to whom it is given.
True, not everyone agrees with your assessment of the scriptures pertaining to the permanency of marriage, especially in regards to one's salvation in connection to said scriptures.
Car2ner,
Jesus said remarriage after a divorce=adultery. Jesus nowhere changes His assessment of such relationships anywhere in scripture, so all we are left with is that this adultery is an ongoing offense until one of the parties dies or one of the party's original marriage partners dies.
Jesus and Paul BOTH taught that those who practice sin, including adultery (among other forms of immorality), shall not inherit the kingdom of God and will have their place in the lake of fire (I Cor. 6, Gal. 5, Rev. 21).
So, truly, Sealed's "assessment" of the scriptures on MDR and how Jesus will judge adulterers cannot be disputed biblically, because it is completely supported by Jesus' own words. Many of us fear for those who claim to be living "in Christ" yet by their lifestyles are living in situations deemed by Him to be adulterous. They may be nice people, but nice does not wipe away the label of adulterer/adulteress as defined by Jesus Himself. It is not His desire that ANY perish in their sins (II Pet. 3:9) but that all come to repentance. That is our desire as well (James 5:19-20).
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 10:03:00 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1614
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
So, truly, Sealed's "assessment" of the scriptures on MDR and how Jesus will judge adulterers cannot be disputed biblically, because it is completely supported by Jesus' own words.
Yes, it can be disputed! Many godly men throughout history have and continue to dispute your interpretation; including men like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Wesley, and almost every leader in the church today. Even the early church you quote so often was not in agreement with many of the things you teach i.e. they accepted divorce for those who divorced prior to conversion, etc... The reality is that car2ner's statement "not everyone agrees with your assessment of the scriptures pertaining to the permanency of marriage, especially in regards to one's salvation in connection to said scriptures." was entirely accurate regardless of whether you choose to see that or not.
No, it is NOT "completely supported by Jesus own words"; one has to ignore the plain sense of Mt. 5 and Mt. 19 to arrive at this interpretation. Additionally, one must decide that Du. 24 no longer applies to us today, and dismiss the plain understanding of 1 Co. 7. Among other things, the contradiction to your interpretation that these scriptures highlight is the reason why most reject your interpretation. I have heard every argument you (and others on this thread) have presented to justify "interpreting" these passages differently, and absolutely none of those arguments are compelling, so please don't feel the need to present them again.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 10:56:03 AM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2008
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Matthew 7:21 "NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Not everyone can accept His statement about the perminency of marriage, but only those to whom it is given.
SealedEternal
that verse was not refering to marriage. quote the rest of it. what is the will of the Father?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 11:14:42 AM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
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The will of the Father is that we believe in Jesus for salvation.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 12:13:08 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 12:41:44 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1639
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
The will of the Father is that we believe in Jesus for salvation.
Absolutely...........but it doesn't stop there. We have to DIE! If we refuse to DIE to self, Jesus will not/cannot LIVE through us. If we are unwilling to submit to Jesus as Lord, can we truly say we have been born from above?
Jesus said, "whosoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whosoever seeks to lose his life for MY SAKE shall save it". We, as His disciples, are called to love as He loves----the hurt and burdened as well as those who are the cause of hurts and burdens.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 12:51:58 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1639
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
Yes, it can be disputed! Many godly men throughout history have and continue to dispute your interpretation; including men like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Wesley, and almost every leader in the church today.
There you go again using MEN to prove what you believe. If you notice what I spoke, I specifically said that one cannot BIBLICALLY discount Sealed's belief/presentations because he is presenting GOD'S WORD as written. Jesus said contracting a marriage AFTER a divorce =adultery. Nowhere in scripture do we see that adultery then turns magically into a lawful marriage---nowhere. So that leads to the assumption that unless Jesus changes His mind about the nature of such relationships, they remain adulterous until the original marriage bond is dissolved---by death.
quote:
Even the early church you quote so often was not in agreement with many of the things you teach i.e. they accepted divorce for those who divorced prior to conversion, etc...
Again, misrepresentation, but I do not expect any less from you based upon your past actions, Benelchi. MOST of the earliest Church Fathers did NOT view divorce and or conversion as something that dissolved original marriages. Later on, yes, and we see the early roots of what is commonly taught and believed in Catholicism today---that marriages NOT performed in the Catholic church are not "real" marriages.........only those marriages that are contracted between BAPTISED CATHOLICS performed in the Catholic church are viewed as "sacramental" marriages----and are considered lifelong---even in the case of adultery (though some are now even changing that teaching/practice).
And you ignore one very important facet of the beliefs in the earliest church----the belief that to marry after a divorce was to enter into an INVALID marriage. The relationship was viewed as adulterous----ongoing adultery, which IS biblically supported and is WHY those of us who believe in lifelong marriage do not believe what is being practiced/taught in churches today-----it is NOT biblically supported that adulterous unions are valid marriages in the sight of God.
quote:
so please don't feel the need to present them again.
Thanks for that suggestion, but since this is a forum open to all, I will continue to participate as the Lord leads.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 1:57:28 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 1614
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
Yes, it can be disputed! Many godly men throughout history have and continue to dispute your interpretation; including men like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Wesley, and almost every leader in the church today.
There you go again using MEN to prove what you believe. If you notice what I spoke, I specifically said that one cannot BIBLICALLY discount Sealed's belief/presentations because he is presenting GOD'S WORD as written.
No, I presented examples of MEN who I share the same trust in God's word as I do, and over and over again I have shared from the Scripture why I absolutely reject your interpretation. What is absolutely funny is that you made this accusation, and yet present the interpretation of a MAN i.e. SealedEternal. I personally am far more comfortable accepting the testimony of men like Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc... because these men have demonstrated their trust in God's word. You can choose to accept SealedEternal's testimony over those like Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc... if you so choose; however, given the exchanges on this forum, I would suggest that to do so would be complete foolishness.
BTW In my original post I cited these men only as examples of those who dispute your claim, but I cited only Scripture to show that your claim was UN-BIBLICAL, So Yes Sealed's beliefs really can be discounted BIBLICALLY whether you choose to see that or not.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 1:59:06 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 650
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quote:
The will of the Father is that we believe in Jesus for salvation.
James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."
If we want to pull one verse out of scripture (John 3:16) and ignore the other 2000 pages we can justify anything we want to do. I don’t believe it’s a salad bar and we get to pick and choose the verses we like. I believe they all apply- especially the 100 verses on repentance and the plethora of strong warnings throughout saying anyone practicing immorality will be judged and will not inherit Heaven. Scripture tells us how to tell if someone is really in Christ. And what He says to those who practice lawlessness… He never knew them.
According to scripture “trusting in Christ” is not all there is to it. We will LOVE Him more than our sin. We will crucify the flesh and be led by the Spirit. In the process of sanctification we will become more and more like Christ- righteous and holy… If we are being led by the Spirit we will not be participating in something He calls adultery.
Acts 26:20 “First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should REPENT and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.”
Luke 24:46-47 “He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and REPENTANCE and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
< Message edited by keepingfaith -- 5/15/2008 2:07:38 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 2:02:30 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 1614
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
quote:
Even the early church you quote so often was not in agreement with many of the things you teach i.e. they accepted divorce for those who divorced prior to conversion, etc...
Again, misrepresentation, but I do not expect any less from you based upon your past actions, Benelchi. MOST of the earliest Church Fathers did NOT view divorce and or conversion as something that dissolved original marriages. Later on, yes, and we see the early roots of what is commonly taught and believed in Catholicism today---that marriages NOT performed in the Catholic church are not "real" marriages.........only those marriages that are contracted between BAPTISED CATHOLICS performed in the Catholic church are viewed as "sacramental" marriages----and are considered lifelong---even in the case of adultery (though some are now even changing that teaching/practice).
Can you cite even one reference from the Early church where divorce of those who were unsaved was condemned after conversion? I can again provide references where this issue was addressed if you would like; the conclusion of the early church authors that did address this topic was that divorce was acceptable in this circumstance.
< Message edited by benelchi -- 5/15/2008 2:10:15 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 2:05:48 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 650
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quote:
Can you cite even one reference from the Early church where divorce of those who were unsaved was condemned after conversion? I can provide references where this issue is addressed, and the conclusion of the early church authors that addressed this topic was that divorce was acceptable in this circumstance.
It doesn't really matter since scripture refutes this claim. There is plenty of evidence in scripture that God recognizes ALL marriages even between unbelievers... so the "prior to conversion argument" holds no water.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 2:16:24 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2206
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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quote:
Jesus said remarriage after a divorce=adultery. Jesus nowhere changes His assessment of such relationships anywhere in scripture, so all we are left with is that this adultery is an ongoing offense until one of the parties dies or one of the party's original marriage partners dies.
Sigh, this is an assessment of the scriptures. The same scriptures are quoted over and over again to support both sides of this debate.
_____________________________
still selling my wonderful home http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 2:54:42 PM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
The will of the Father is that we believe in Jesus for salvation.
Absolutely...........but it doesn't stop there. We have to DIE! If we refuse to DIE to self, Jesus will not/cannot LIVE through us. If we are unwilling to submit to Jesus as Lord, can we truly say we have been born from above?
Jesus said, "whosoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whosoever seeks to lose his life for MY SAKE shall save it". We, as His disciples, are called to love as He loves----the hurt and burdened as well as those who are the cause of hurts and burdens.
once saved always saved is a different topic though.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 4:41:34 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1639
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
I personally am far more comfortable accepting the testimony of men like Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc... because these men have demonstrated their trust in God's word. You can choose to accept SealedEternal's testimony over those like Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc...
Ah, see, the thing is that I don't accept so and so-s testimony over anyone else. I place God's Word at the forefront. The thing is that Sealed presents God's Word---word for word, and the funny thing is that I see many who have a real problem with this. Why is that? Is God's Word not good enough for some? It appears not.
I will say this: I DO trust Sealed's view of marriage/forgiveness/restoration MORE than I do that of Luther. I have read his writings on marriage. Have you? I was appalled!!! Do you know that he sanctioned "secret" unlawful marriages? Do you know that he saw the adulterous spouse as hellbound---no matter if they repented of their adultery?
Here's a quote from Luther:
You may ask: What is to become of the other [the guilty party] if he too is perhaps unable to lead a chaste life? Answer: It was for this reason that God commanded in the law [Deut. 22: 22-24] that adulterers be stoned, that they might not have to face this question. The temporal sword and government should therefore still put adulterers to death, for whoever commits adultery has in fact himself already departed and is considered as one dead. Therefore, the other [the innocent party] may remarry just as though his spouse had died, if it is his intention to insist on his rights and not show mercy to the guilty party. Where the government is negligent and lax, however, and fails to inflict the death penalty, the adulterer may betake himself to a far country and there remarry if he is unable to remain continent. But it would be better to put him to death, lest a bad example be set."
Here's another:
"Here you should be guided by the words of St. Paul, I Corinthians 7 [:4-5], "The husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does; likewise the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does. Do not deprive each other, except by agreement," etc. Notice that St. Paul forbids either party to deprive the other, for by the marriage vow each submits his body to the other in conjugal duty. When one resists the other and refuses the conjugal duty she is robbing the other of the body she had bestowed upon him. This is really contrary to marriage, and dissolves the marriage. For this reason the civil government must compel the wife, or put her to death. If the government fails to act, the husband must reason that his wife has been stolen away and slain by robbers; he must seek another. We would certainly have to accept it if someone's life were taken from him. Why then should we not also accept it if a wife steals herself away from her husband, or is stolen away by others?"
There is MUCH more he has stated that I find just reprehensible..............but if you like to align yourself with him, be my guest. 
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Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 4:46:45 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1639
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
Can you cite even one reference from the Early church where divorce of those who were unsaved was condemned after conversion? I can provide references where this issue is addressed, and the conclusion of the early church authors that addressed this topic was that divorce was acceptable in this circumstance.
It doesn't really matter since scripture refutes this claim. There is plenty of evidence in scripture that God recognizes ALL marriages even between unbelievers... so the "prior to conversion argument" holds no water.
I find it interesting Keeping that some who vehemently come against RC practices, will retain SOME of those practices if they suit their needs/beliefs. As you have stated, there is absolutely NO biblical evidence that conversion dissolves a marriage and changes adultery into a lawful marriage. There is however, biblical evidence that God honors marriages made between believer/unbeliever.
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Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 4:48:21 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1639
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
quote:
Jesus said remarriage after a divorce=adultery. Jesus nowhere changes His assessment of such relationships anywhere in scripture, so all we are left with is that this adultery is an ongoing offense until one of the parties dies or one of the party's original marriage partners dies.
Sigh, this is an assessment of the scriptures. The same scriptures are quoted over and over again to support both sides of this debate.
I'm sorry, but I've yet to see any scriptures that show a union Jesus called adultery become a lawful marriage in His sight, so I'm not quite sure which ones you are seeing quoted over and over.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 6:43:38 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2206
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm sorry, but I've yet to see any scriptures that show a union Jesus called adultery become a lawful marriage in His sight, so I'm not quite sure which ones you are seeing quoted over and over.
Of course not, we never said that there was a scripture that showed a union that Jesus called adultery became a lawful marriage.
We disagree on what Jesus would call adultery and/ or a lawful marriage in the first place.
No wonder we never come to agreement.
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still selling my wonderful home http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/15/2008 8:13:29 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 956
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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