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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 5:50:56 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2308
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
In regard to your position, I don't see why there would be a disagreement about what Jesus calls adultery, when He specifically stated His definition several times:
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
But that is not the only one verse in the bible. I and others have stated our assessement of the scriptures and others have shot it down as inaccurate. You and others have given your assessement of the very same scriptures and we have said, "no, that is not how it is meant to be taken". Since we use the very same texts to support differant views, it is not the fault of God, it is how we read and assess them. I can see how you arrive at your opinion. It is quite clear. I still think it is faulty, especially in regards to salvation.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have some other threads to throw two pennies into.
_____________________________
bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 9:36:45 AM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
Matthew 7:21 "NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Not everyone can accept His statement about the perminency of marriage, but only those to whom it is given.
SealedEternal
that verse was not refering to marriage. quote the rest of it. what is the will of the Father?
To practice righteousness, and not practice sins such as adultery:
Matthew 7:13-23 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "So then, you will know them by their fruits. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and SIN IS LAWLESSNESS. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, MAKE SURE NO ONE DECEIVES YOU; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Luke 16:18 "EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
1 John 2:3-4 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
Mark 10:11-12 And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
I Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
SealedEternal
i think the moderators asked that you not do that, make extremely long repetitive posts. I will not read them. make it short and readable and we can discuss. thanks
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 10:29:00 AM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 668
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
Matthew 7:21 "NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Not everyone can accept His statement about the perminency of marriage, but only those to whom it is given.
SealedEternal
that verse was not refering to marriage. quote the rest of it. what is the will of the Father?
To practice righteousness, and not practice sins such as adultery:
Matthew 7:13-23 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "So then, you will know them by their fruits. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and SIN IS LAWLESSNESS. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, MAKE SURE NO ONE DECEIVES YOU; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Luke 16:18 "EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
1 John 2:3-4 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
Mark 10:11-12 And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
I Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
SealedEternal
i think the moderators asked that you not do that, make extremely long repetitive posts. I will not read them. make it short and readable and we can discuss. thanks
Sealed was answering the question… using God’s Word- not his own words. This is quite concise… there are 2000 pages with much more. He actually gave the cliff notes version that summed it up nicely. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter how many verses he posts that clearly show the truth, some will not see it… they will stick with their cherry picked verses that justify their conclusion.
We should never consider it burdensome to search for truth and to read ALL of God’s word in context to arrive at the truth. If it is not worth our time, than we need to reconsider… Being that close to God’s word is the only way to find truth. Not by sitting on some cherry picked verses and defending those at the exclusion of so many others that tell a different story.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 11:31:11 AM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
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Sealed was answering the question… using God’s Word- not his own words. This is quite concise… there are 2000 pages with much more. He actually gave the cliff notes version that summed it up nicely.
Since i'm not reading 2000 pages it will have to be posts that are short enough to read and respond to. And I think that is the moderators rule, which is a good one. Why cut and paste the same thing over and over if no one reads it? Actually discuss. Use your own words! Scripture of course but in a forum it must be readable, not a huge ammount. I wont read em.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 12:23:14 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7548
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
Matthew 7:21 "NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Not everyone can accept His statement about the perminency of marriage, but only those to whom it is given.
SealedEternal
that verse was not refering to marriage. quote the rest of it. what is the will of the Father?
To practice righteousness, and not practice sins such as adultery:
Matthew 7:13-23 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "So then, you will know them by their fruits. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and SIN IS LAWLESSNESS. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, MAKE SURE NO ONE DECEIVES YOU; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Luke 16:18 "EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
1 John 2:3-4 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
Mark 10:11-12 And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
I Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
SealedEternal
i think the moderators asked that you not do that, make extremely long repetitive posts. I will not read them. make it short and readable and we can discuss. thanks
Please use the report link if you feel someone is violating our rules or instructions.
Sealed's post did not violate our rules.
My admonishment was brought about because you kept copying and pasting large portions of content from a website.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
Messages which disregard the words in red will be removed without warning and the poster may also be banned.
_____________________________
Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://christianfriend.com
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 2:13:35 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1639
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
Since i'm not reading 2000 pages it will have to be posts that are short enough to read and respond to. And I think that is the moderators rule, which is a good one. Why cut and paste the same thing over and over if no one reads it? Actually discuss. Use your own words! Scripture of course but in a forum it must be readable, not a huge ammount. I wont read em.
Tater,
You know what? I have read the same scriptures over and over again and they did not "speak" to me.................until the Lord opened my eyes to that scripture when I read it AGAIN.
This same thing happens to all believers when they read God's Word. People will say such things as, "wow, I've read that a million times before and NEVER saw that!!!"
So, with that said, it IS a good thing to post scripture over and over again, because God promises that His Word will not return void..........not man's word (though most of us use way too much of our own words or the words of others that we "think" are right)...........
Blessings..........
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 6:02:17 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 668
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
In regard to your position, I don't see why there would be a disagreement about what Jesus calls adultery, when He specifically stated His definition several times:
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
Car2ner:
But that is not the only one verse in the bible. I and others have stated our assessement of the scriptures and others have shot it down as inaccurate. You and others have given your assessement of the very same scriptures and we have said, "no, that is not how it is meant to be taken". Since we use the very same texts to support differant views, it is not the fault of God, it is how we read and assess them. I can see how you arrive at your opinion. It is quite clear. I still think it is faulty, especially in regards to salvation.
I believe God’s Word is inerrant and infallible, which means that…
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error...
“EVERYONE who divorces and remarries commits adultery” Luke 16:18
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error…
“ANYONE who marries a divorced person commits adultery” Matt 5:32
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error…
“A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives, but if he dies she is free to marry whom she wishes” 1cor7:39
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error...
“ if while her husband lives she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress, but if her husband is dead, she is no adulteress though she is married to another man” Rom 7:2-3
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error…
“A woman is not to separate from her husband, but if she does she must remain unmarried or be reconciled.” 1cor7:10-11
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error…
“A man is not to divorce his wife” 1cor7:10-11
Unless someone can explain why Jesus and Paul made all these false statements, I will stick with what they said.
< Message edited by keepingfaith -- 5/16/2008 6:09:05 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 6:07:02 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 668
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Since i'm not reading 2000 pages it will have to be posts that are short enough to read and respond to.
I was referring to the 2000 pages of the Bible. One cannot find the truth without using the whole Counsel of the Word. I hope no one is looking for truth here instead of in God's Word.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 6:21:45 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 668
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
No, it is NOT "completely supported by Jesus own words"; one has to ignore the plain sense of Mt. 5 and Mt. 19 to arrive at this interpretation. Additionally, one must decide that Du. 24 no longer applies to us today, and dismiss the plain understanding of 1 Co. 7.
The plain sense understanding of Matthew is that the woman who is unjustly put away is also committing adultery upon remarriage.
Are you saying that one verse in Deut 24 is the only one that still applies to us? What about the rest? Are you living by those laws? Are you stoning people? If you are living by those laws then you would know that the penalty for adultery is stoning- not divorce.
The plain sense understanding of 1cor7 does not indicate ANYWHERE in the text the freedom from the marriage bond to remarry. Why do you keep insisting that those 2 different greek words for "bound" are the same when they are not? Nowhere in the text does it say anything about being free to remarry... so that is made up. Paul says specifically that one must remain unmarried and that death frees one to remarry.
Jesus doesn’t appear to agree with your interpretation of Matthew. If we are without sin or we are a Pharisee we can “stone” our spouse for adultery by divorcing them, otherwise we can be like Jesus and give forgiveness, mercy and grace. I cannot align myself with a theology that singles out and heaps condemnation on certain sinners. Jesus would never do that, and He has told us not to…
John 8:3-11
“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
2 Cor 5:17
“All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of RECONCILIATION.”
< Message edited by keepingfaith -- 5/16/2008 6:51:34 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 6:27:30 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 668
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Yes, it can be disputed! Many godly men throughout history have and continue to dispute your interpretation; including men like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Wesley, and almost every leader in the church today.
Benelchi,
Why do you keep quoting these men like your theology lines up with theirs? They do not even teach what you do. The Reformers did not teach what you do. Most churches who agree with remarriage in some cases, do not teach what you do. Honestly, I have never heard anyone who teaches what you do- that the "exceptions" free both parties to remarry (which makes all cases legal).
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/16/2008 10:06:14 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 971
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
quote:
In regard to your position, I don't see why there would be a disagreement about what Jesus calls adultery, when He specifically stated His definition several times:
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
Car2ner:
But that is not the only one verse in the bible. I and others have stated our assessement of the scriptures and others have shot it down as inaccurate. You and others have given your assessement of the very same scriptures and we have said, "no, that is not how it is meant to be taken". Since we use the very same texts to support differant views, it is not the fault of God, it is how we read and assess them. I can see how you arrive at your opinion. It is quite clear. I still think it is faulty, especially in regards to salvation.
I believe God’s Word is inerrant and infallible, which means that…
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error...
“EVERYONE who divorces and remarries commits adultery” Luke 16:18
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error…
“ANYONE who marries a divorced person commits adultery” Matt 5:32
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error…
“A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives, but if he dies she is free to marry whom she wishes” 1cor7:39
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error...
“ if while her husband lives she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress, but if her husband is dead, she is no adulteress though she is married to another man” Rom 7:2-3
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error…
“A woman is not to separate from her husband, but if she does she must remain unmarried or be reconciled.” 1cor7:10-11
any interpretation that makes this statement false has to be in error…
“A man is not to divorce his wife” 1cor7:10-11
Unless someone can explain why Jesus and Paul made all these false statements, I will stick with what they said.
Exactly. These are not the "only" verses in the Bible, but they are in there and mean exactly what they state. Many people just gloss right over them and look for another verse which they might use to justify their lifestyle, and then claim they are living Biblically while contradicting the majority of the Bible on this subject. They cannot however explain how these verses will harmonize with their interpretation of their one or two proof texts because obviously they won't.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 9:44:38 AM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
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Its unfortunate that we cant share our personal stories here. Some of you on your pedestals would quietly step down if you knew the details of what some have been through. I used to think I'd NEVER be involved in certain situations of life that I am now CURRENTLY dealing with. Stuff happens. Bad stuff. People are prone to sin (yes everyone of us). We worship a God of grace, including a grace which covers even the nastiest divorce. I am aware of what the Scripture says and I dont agree with the interpretation some of you have. The thing about a bad marriage is how it affects not just the two people married. Children are affected. Grandparents. Aunts. Uncles. Nieces, nephews....all of these have at times been hurt by ONE persons mental/selfish/unstable whatever you want to call it attitude towards their marriage. Is the entire family to be stepped on so ONE person can wallow in their sin and the marriage stay intact? Are children to be raised in a home where a sinful selfish controlling parent demolishes them emotionally and spiritually, affecting their relationship with the Lord? I know of situations so bad where even extended family members required a doctors help and medication due to a selfish/controlling/oddball spouse that their adult child had married. Is that what God meant when He said "I hate divorce". I do not believe that and I dont think any of you do either.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 10:20:47 AM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 971
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
Its unfortunate that we cant share our personal stories here. Some of you on your pedestals would quietly step down if you knew the details of what some have been through.
The whole point of the thread is to discuss God's commands in regard to divorce and remarriage, not to be clouded by emotional human reasoning. We are all aware that there are situations where it may seem pragmatic to violate God's rules, but I believe in the larger scope of things it is quite logical and wise the way God set it up, and ultimately is for our own good and protection. When man decided that we can separate what He has joined; at first perhaps for seemingly benefitial reasons; and then remarry; again seemingly for the better of everyone involved; in the long term it actually destroyed the institution itself.
People always rationalize their own situations, and justify themselves by looking at what others are doing. If so and so can divorce; Why can't I? The line gets pushed further and further with each additional case, until you have no fault divorce for any reason whatsoever, and a society where most marriages end in divorce. God realized that protecting the integrity of the institution was paramount, and that once you open the door to excuses for violating the spirit of the institution, the door will be thrown open and everyone will come rushing through it.
So He tells the few who find themselves in unfortunate situations to remain alone if they can't reconcile with their spouse. I don't think He's asking too much, especially when doing so protects the integrity of the institution itself. As Jesus said "Some people make themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of God." It is a testimony of His faithfulness and grace, when we remain faithful to our covenant regardless of the sins of the one we made it with. Just consider the "bride" that He is remaining faithful to despite all of our shortcomings.
SealedEternal
_____________________________
For information on Marriage and Divorce http://sealedeternal.bravehost.com/1.html
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 11:43:01 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2308
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
They cannot however explain how these verses will harmonize with their interpretation of their one or two proof texts because
Many have made an effort to explain how these verses harmonize. They have tried to explain it in broad strokes and down to the "jot and tittle". They have tried to explain it using modern mind set and ancient mind set. There is no agreement that those explainations are valid. Some agree most whole heartedly, some in part and some not at all. So once again, this goes back to how one assess the verses.
Hense the nearly 9k posts.
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bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 12:55:55 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 668
Joined: 5/11/2007
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quote:
There is no agreement that those explainations are valid. Some agree most whole heartedly, some in part and some not at all. So once again, this goes back to how one assess the verses.
There is only one assessment of this verse that is valid... that it means exactly what it says.
Luke 16:18
"EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
The only way to arrive at another conclusion is to throw out all of the verses I just quoted above along with many more. One must reject all of them and only accept a couple verses as true, and assume that Matthew is the only valid recording we have- the rest cannot be trusted.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 1:08:12 PM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 971
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
There is no agreement that those explainations are valid. Some agree most whole heartedly, some in part and some not at all. So once again, this goes back to how one assess the verses.
There is only one assessment of this verse that is valid... that it means exactly what it says.
Luke 16:18
"EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery."
The only way to arrive at another conclusion is to throw out all of the verses I just quoted above along with many more. One must reject all of them and only accept a couple verses as true, and assume that Matthew is the only valid recording we have- the rest cannot be trusted.
I must have missed the explanation of how "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery" actually means that divorcing and remarrying is not adultery, and that being bound until death actually means not being bound until death, and that remaining unmarried or else reconciling means you can remarry and don't have to remain unmarried or reconcile, etc. I have seen a lot of people try to gloss over or ignore those verses, but don't recall ever seeing them explain how these verses harmonize with their position. Perhaps someone could give it to me again, or at least point me to where these alleged harmonizations may be found. All I ever see is a slight of hand trick of pay no attention to those verses over there because I have my loophole here.
SealedEternal
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 1:16:58 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 668
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quote:
True, not everyone agrees with your assessment of the scriptures pertaining to the permanency of marriage, especially in regards to one's salvation in connection to said scriptures.
I'm not sure how God could have given any more warnings throughout scripture regarding unrepentant adultery and salvation. These are just a few...
"A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes. Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man."
1Cor 7:39, Luke 16:18, Rom 7:3
Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 cor 6:9-11
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 cor 5:11
11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
1 cor 6:18-20
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
Revelation 22:14
14"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Proverbs 2:16
It will save you also from the adulteress, from the wayward wife with her seductive words, 17 who has left the partner of her youth and ignored the covenant she made before God. 18 For her house leads down to death and her paths to the spirits of the dead. 19 None who go to her return or attain the paths of life. 5:3 For the lips of an adulteress drip honey, and her speech is smoother than oil;4 but in the end she is bitter as gall, sharp as a double-edged sword.5 Her feet go down to death; her steps lead straight to the grave. 6 She gives no thought to the way of life; her paths are crooked, but she knows it not. 7 Now then, my sons, listen to me; do not turn aside from what I say.8 Keep to a path far from her, do not go near the door of her house,9 lest you give your best strength to others and your years to one who is cruel.
Romans 1:24
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Ephesians 5:3-11
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them. For were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 1:31:25 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2308
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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quote:
11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
Some have used this verse to include the wayward unrepentent sinning spouse. BTW, we have already said, Of course it is adultery if a woman remarries while she still has a husband. This is in reply to your verse in bold type.
_____________________________
bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 1:33:28 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2308
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them. For were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
Hmm, we could use this one also to say that we should not be partners with an unrepentant sinning spouse. This is why some of us believe that the scripture says that if an unbeliever choses to leave, let them.
_____________________________
bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 2:01:46 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 668
Joined: 5/11/2007
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quote:
Hmm, we could use this one also to say that we should not be partners with an unrepentant sinning spouse. This is why some of us believe that the scripture says that if an unbeliever choses to leave, let them.
Scripture also commands us to stay with that same unbeliever who will stay with us. That doesn't make much sense that we are commanded to stay with them if they stay, but if they leave we are "free" of them. We could easily "push" them out the door if we tried hard enough.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2008 2:57:14 PM
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TATERBUGLETTE
Posts: 131
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: TATERBUGLETTE
Its unfortunate that we cant share our personal stories here. Some of you on your pedestals would quietly step down if you knew the details of what some have been through.
The whole point of the thread is to discuss God's commands in regard to divorce and remarriage, not to be clouded by emotional human reasoning. We are all aware that there are situations where it may seem pragmatic to violate God's rules, but I believe in the larger scope of things it is quite logical and wise the way God set it up, and ultimately is for our own good and protection. When man decided that we can separate what He has joined; at first perhaps for seemingly benefitial reasons; and then remarry; again seemingly for the better of everyone involved; in the long term it actually destroyed the institution itself.
i certainly dont see a God in Jesus Christ who told us to avoid our emotions. Neither are we to be swayed in the wrong direction with them. "Jesus wept"...."He is touched with feelings of our infirmities"....I see in Jesus a God who passionately felt the pain of His people and showed His deepest emotions in many ways, through healing and forgiving. God never intended us to read the scripture like robots...or act like them either, else He wouldnt have given us emotions!~ "You are aware" of what people go through? Not unless you've walked in their shoes
People always rationalize their own situations, and justify themselves by looking at what others are doing. If so and so can divorce; Why can't I? The line gets pushed further and further with each additional case, until you have no fault divorce for any reason whatsoever, and a society where most marriages end in divorce. God realized that protecting the integrity of the institution was paramount, and that once you open the door to excuses for violating the spirit of the institution, the door will be thrown open and everyone will come rushing through it.
I dont agree. People dont always rationalize. Many divorced Christians tried for years...counseling, begging, praying, crawling before an abusive spouse, giving in to even sinful demands that they act in a certain way so as to try and keep a damaged home life together. Excuses? Most have looked for YEARS for an excuse not to divorce. A reason, a tiny hope...ANYTHING ...and sometimes find nothing but sin and agony if they remain. We are to avoid sin. Sometimes that means divorcing the source of it.
So He tells the few who find themselves in unfortunate situations to remain alone if they can't reconcile with their spouse. I don't think He's asking too much, especially when doing so protects the integrity of the institution itself. As Jesus said "Some people make themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of God." It is a testimony of His faithfulness and grace, when we remain faithful to our covenant regardless of the sins of the one we made it with. Just consider the "bride" that He is remaining faithful to despite all of our shortcomings.
again, I dont agree. Most dont. He knows we cant always remain alone for a variety of reasons, and to do so would harm us and our families in many ways. There is no covenant in some marriages. There should be, there sometimes is nothing but a pathetic excuse for what He intended. And of course there is His grace.
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