|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 10:44:06 AM
|
|
|
keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Hmm, then unless there is adultery or abuse, you continue to pray for them. WE-just-don't-love-each-other-god-wants-me-to-be-happy is not a valid reason for divorce. If they go to another's home, sleeps with them, makes plans for the future with them, even marries them, then they have left.
But according to the verse you quoted you gave justification for why we should not be partners with someone who is doing any of those things...
Since God commands us to stay with an unbeliever (who by nature will be most of those) that doesn't add up to me.
Are you saying we should not be praying for one who is in adultery or one who is abusive (who obviously is not in Christ)? When scriptures says what will happen to those in adultery and those who don't have Christ when they die?
Are you saying we can put them out for adultery? I thought Jesus was the only one without sin and even He didn't condemn the woman in adultery. I would love to meet these people who are without sin.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 10:49:59 AM
|
|
|
keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
If they go to another's home, sleeps with them, makes plans for the future with them, even marries them, then they have left.
If you believe that scripture requries you to continue to carry a torch for them, then by all means do that.
Nothing to do with carrying a torch... Torch or no torch, scripture says I'm still married whether my spouse stays/leaves, is "married" to another or not. I don't see scripture "requiring" me to do anything. I see scripture telling me that I have no say in the matter and no control over the fact that the marriage covenant is unbreakable except by death. The fact that I'm still married in God's eyes til death will never change whether I choose to obey or not.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 10:55:40 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
OK, so if someone is in a second marriage and they decide to go back to their first spouse, do they need to get a legal divorce and have a legal ceremony before they can live as husband and wife with the first spouse?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 11:31:35 AM
|
|
|
keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Is there any possible scenario where people have divorced and remarried which you don't consider a legitimate marriage?
The Lord doesn't appear to see the second marriage as legitimate since He still calls the first wife his wife by covenant after this man "marries" another.
Malachi 2:11-16
"Judah has broken faith. A detestable thing has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem: Judah has desecrated the sanctuary the LORD loves, by marrying the daughter of a foreign god. As for the man who does this, whoever he may be, may the LORD cut him off from the tents of Jacob —even though he brings offerings to the LORD Almighty."
"Another thing you do: You flood the LORD's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. 14 You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.
"Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth."
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith."
This man also does not appear to be in right standing with the Lord- He is not even hearing his prayers...
< Message edited by keepingfaith -- 5/22/2008 11:42:02 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 11:46:20 AM
|
|
|
AmyMarie
Posts: 17
Joined: 1/20/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
Hmm, then unless there is adultery or abuse, you continue to pray for them. WE-just-don't-love-each-other-god-wants-me-to-be-happy is not a valid reason for divorce. If they go to another's home, sleeps with them, makes plans for the future with them, even marries them, then they have left.
But according to the verse you quoted you gave justification for why we should not be partners with someone who is doing any of those things...
Since God commands us to stay with an unbeliever (who by nature will be most of those) that doesn't add up to me.
Are you saying we should not be praying for one who is in adultery or one who is abusive (who obviously is not in Christ)? When scriptures says what will happen to those in adultery and those who don't have Christ when they die?
Are you saying we can put them out for adultery? I thought Jesus was the only one without sin and even He didn't condemn the woman in adultery. I would love to meet these people who are without sin.
This is where I have been trying to get clarification and it seems that getting an answer has been like pulling teeth.
As quoted above:
But according to the verse you quoted you gave justification for why we should not be partners with someone who is doing any of those things...
That is my whole point BUT what if you do not know that person fully due to them witholding information like I stated in an earlier post? (such as criminal background, mental disabilities, etc).
That, to me, would cause serious distruption to the partnership. Also, like I said before, God wanted us to keep our vows and 'till death do us part'.......but not to the point where death might come from the hand of your own spouse, right? Mental and physical abuse on one's spouse and the children is not good enough reason to divorce? Even with serious repentance? In Scrirpture, these circumstances were not an exception to the rule. Where then shall man make these exceptions? Should we live word for word by Scripture and sacrifice a child's well being at the hand of an abusive spouse. Even their own life?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 12:34:12 PM
|
|
|
car2ner
Posts: 2936
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
|
What confusion? I am not confused by what God is saying. The confusion comes from us missunderstanding His word. Mostly it comes from us not willing to listen to Him. Hense our whole debate, our opinions of what scriptures say don't match up. For me to do what you have said that scripture demands would bring massive confusion where now there is none.
Also, noone said not to pray for the partner who is tearing a marriage apart. NOone is saying to stop praying for an ex, long gone and living who knows where.
Putting out an adulterer? They put themselves out when they stepped out of the marriage bed into the bed of another.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 12:50:02 PM
|
|
|
keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Also, like I said before, God wanted us to keep our vows and 'till death do us part'.......but not to the point where death might come from the hand of your own spouse, right? Mental and physical abuse on one's spouse and the children is not good enough reason to divorce? Even with serious repentance? In Scrirpture, these circumstances were not an exception to the rule. Where then shall man make these exceptions? Should we live word for word by Scripture and sacrifice a child's well being at the hand of an abusive spouse. Even their own life?
This has been addressed many times in this thread. Noone here has ever said someone should stay in an unsafe or unhealthy environment. There is provision to remove ourselves from that situation, but we should still remain faithful to our vows during the time of separation and let the children know how much God loves their dad and wants him to come to repentance and be reconciled to Him and their family.
Our lives should be a witness for Christ. He died for us WHILE we were yet sinners- not while we were perfect. Those are the very people he came to save...
There are many testimonies like Raul Reis who has his own ministry now, who was extremely abusive and his wife was about to divorce him- but he would not have that, so he was waiting at the house to kill his wife his kids and himself when an evangelist came on the TV and he was born again right there.
Noone is beyond God's reach, and we are not in a place to determine if someone is... so we should not permanently cut them off.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 12:54:11 PM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
No one is beyond God's reach, and we are not in a place to determine if someone is... so we should not permanently cut them off.
That is why I pray for my first ex and my soon-to-be ex all the time.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 12:56:36 PM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
OK, so if someone is in a second marriage and they decide to go back to their first spouse, do they need to get a legal divorce and have a legal ceremony before they can live as husband and wife with the first spouse?
Do they "have to"? Well, I would think it a good thing as society thinks that a divorce decree dissolves the previous marriage. Now, does God see a divorce as dissolving what He joined together? No. That is why He calls a second union: adultery. But.........in the eyes of the world the second union was NOT adultery, but a civil lawful marriage. Hence, since the "world" views a divorce as necessary to dissolve this civil lawful marriage, then I would do it for the "world" so that they would not see/think of me as "living in sin" with a man while I was still "married" to the one God did NOT join me to. Hope that answers your question.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 1:00:57 PM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AmyMarie
like I said before, God wanted us to keep our vows and 'till death do us part'.......but not to the point where death might come from the hand of your own spouse, right? Mental and physical abuse on one's spouse and the children is not good enough reason to divorce? Even with serious repentance? In Scrirpture, these circumstances were not an exception to the rule. Where then shall man make these exceptions? Should we live word for word by Scripture and sacrifice a child's well being at the hand of an abusive spouse. Even their own life?
I'm not understanding the issue here. Does not the Lord give concession for a woman? Does He command, "a woman is not to depart, BUT IF SHE DOES, she is to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband"?
I would not stay in the same household with an abusive man nor subject our children to that..........but leaving the household to find safey is VERY different than leaving the marriage and hooking up with another man to take the place of the one God joins you to. The "departing" is permissible by the Lord-------the joining with a new person is what is prohibited.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 1:01:38 PM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
OK, so if someone is in a second marriage and they decide to go back to their first spouse, do they need to get a legal divorce and have a legal ceremony before they can live as husband and wife with the first spouse?
Do they "have to"? Well, I would think it a good thing as society thinks that a divorce decree dissolves the previous marriage. Now, does God see a divorce as dissolving what He joined together? No. That is why He calls a second union: adultery. But.........in the eyes of the world the second union was NOT adultery, but a civil lawful marriage. Hence, since the "world" views a divorce as necessary to dissolve this civil lawful marriage, then I would do it for the "world" so that they would not see/think of me as "living in sin" with a man while I was still "married" to the one God did NOT join me to. Hope that answers your question.
Basically you're saying "yes" so that we don't give the appearance of sin?
That makes sense.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 1:03:03 PM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
That is why I pray for my first ex and my soon-to-be ex all the time.
And that is the Lord's heart...........that we pray for those who are away from Him, especially the ONE He joins us to.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 1:07:19 PM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Basically you're saying "yes" so that we don't give the appearance of sin?
That makes sense.
yes, that is exactly my thought on that. 
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 1:07:48 PM
|
|
|
AmyMarie
Posts: 17
Joined: 1/20/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
Also, like I said before, God wanted us to keep our vows and 'till death do us part'.......but not to the point where death might come from the hand of your own spouse, right? Mental and physical abuse on one's spouse and the children is not good enough reason to divorce? Even with serious repentance? In Scrirpture, these circumstances were not an exception to the rule. Where then shall man make these exceptions? Should we live word for word by Scripture and sacrifice a child's well being at the hand of an abusive spouse. Even their own life?
This has been addressed many times in this thread. Noone here has ever said someone should stay in an unsafe or unhealthy environment. There is provision to remove ourselves from that situation, but we should still remain faithful to our vows during the time of separation and let the children know how much God loves their dad and wants him to come to repentance and be reconciled to Him and their family.
Our lives should be a witness for Christ. He died for us WHILE we were yet sinners- not while we were perfect. Those are the very people he came to save...
There are many testimonies like Raul Reis who has his own ministry now, who was extremely abusive and his wife was about to divorce him- but he would not have that, so he was waiting at the house to kill his wife his kids and himself when an evangelist came on the TV and he was born again right there.
Noone is beyond God's reach, and we are not in a place to determine if someone is... so we should not permanently cut them off.
I'm sorry but there is no way that I would keep anyone in my life or within my reach that is not coming to repentance and not willing to reconcile. Am I willing to take the chance of not permanently cutting off my spouse to feel sorry for him and still, put myself and children in danger? Then I would be even more of a sinner not doing what is right and putting the lives of myself and the children in Satan's hands. That is like giving a molester the pick of which child will be next. That is sick! It is not, however, my place to determine if someone is beyond God's reach but in the meantime, I am not going to feed the lion's!!! So yes, cutting them off is what I would do to save myself and my family....expecially if that person is a non-believer.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 1:14:05 PM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
I don't think we necessarily have to cut them out of our lives completely. I do believe that some serious mileage would be a good idea in most cases and possible use of law enforcement if necessary.
Prayers for repentance never hurt.
Contact, via phone, mail or in person, would be something that would depend on the situation.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 1:17:44 PM
|
|
|
keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Putting out an adulterer? They put themselves out when they stepped out of the marriage bed into the bed of another.
Really? Is that what Jesus told the woman caught in adultery? You just put yourself out of the Kingdom by committing adultery?
Why did God direct Hosea to take a wife who was a prostitute who he was told in advance WOULD BE UNFAITHFUL? Did He also say, but I’m going to give you an “out” to divorce her when she does?
Hosea is a picture of God’s love and faithfulness to His people, and the ultimate theme of it after MUCH unfaithfulness is RESTORATION.
Who are we to judge others? When unbelievers become born again… they may have a long list of things that are pretty horrible in their past. But the slate is wiped clean and remembered no more. Jesus doesn’t “grade” their sins and say “no- you committed the wrong one, you can’t have your ticket in.”
If we are in Him, we will reflect His grace and mercy...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 1:21:19 PM
|
|
|
keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
I don't think we necessarily have to cut them out of our lives completely. I do believe that some serious mileage would be a good idea in most cases and possible use of law enforcement if necessary.
this is in response to Amymaries as well.
What I meant by permanently cut off is by not leaving the door open for reconciliation the way Jesus does til death. We can be in a safe place away from them while remaining faithful to our vows (modeling God's love and commitment to our children).
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 2:42:43 PM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
I don't think we necessarily have to cut them out of our lives completely. I do believe that some serious mileage would be a good idea in most cases and possible use of law enforcement if necessary.
this is in response to Amymaries as well.
What I meant by permanently cut off is by not leaving the door open for reconciliation the way Jesus does til death. We can be in a safe place away from them while remaining faithful to our vows (modeling God's love and commitment to our children).
I completely agree with you. That is the Lord's heart as expressed in His Word. I do think no matter how many times we quote I Cor. 7:10-11, that in some cases DEPARTING is permissible, the heart of the person is to COMPLETELY cut off the spouse, never again to try and restore their marriage no matter how completely repentive/changed a person they are. When we have this mindset, we have to REALLY ask ourselves if we truly are manifesting Jesus in our actions/plans/etc..............or are we walking in unforgiveness and hardness of heart.
To be sure, when a spouse has really HURT the other, there is a time of healing one needs to go through. Iff they submit to that healing of the Lord----HIS WAY, they WILL be then able to love as Jesus loves and able to see their wayward spouse as Jesus does----one that is worthy of LIFE and sacrificial love..........not one that is worthy to die in their sins. Blessings.........
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 7:29:45 PM
|
|
|
blessednw
Posts: 724
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
There are many testimonies like Raul Reis who has his own ministry now, who was extremely abusive and his wife was about to divorce him- but he would not have that, so he was waiting at the house to kill his wife his kids and himself when an evangelist came on the TV and he was born again right there.
No one is beyond God's reach, and we are not in a place to determine if someone is... so we should not permanently cut them off.
He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to a saving knowledge of Christ.
Cool testimony. Radical powerful breakthrough in that case. Had not heard of them.
I know a lot of testimonies too, of abusive and adulterous men and women who could not run from obeying God anymore and bowed their knee, becoming humbled and changed and "in their right mind".
And I know that many of those who lived obediently to God as married while not living together, who had differing lengths of their time waiting on God, but had a breakthrough like that. God's heart is to restore, heal and help us all to be faithful to Him in whatever trial we are walking through.
_____________________________
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.....
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 7:52:58 PM
|
|
|
keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
|
Just thought I would share something I ran across, since I had mentioned earlier how Pastors are digging deeper and repenting of this false teaching. This quote from Jon Piper is one example. It is interesting to note how much he was aware of the implications for his congregation.
I’m not sure when this quote is dated, but it doesn’t even seem to align with what he teaches today. It appears here that he believes all remarriage is forbidden with a living first spouse… but in his position paper he tells those in forbidden marriages to stay in them? Piper has not come all the way, but he is certainly closer than many in the modern church. I know of other Pastors who held Piper's same beliefs, but their further studies led them to see that all remarriage is not only forbidden as adultery, but must be repented of and forsaken.
Note his first sentence... I wonder how many of the "most" who teach the exception view today fall under that same category of "accepting the inherited position."
"All of my adult life, until I was faced with the necessity of dealing with divorce and remarriage in the pastoral context, I held the prevailing Protestant view that remarriage after divorce was Biblically sanctioned in cases where divorce had resulted from desertion or persistent adultery. Only when I was compelled, some years ago, in teaching through the gospel of Luke, to deal with Jesus’ absolute statement in Luke 16:18 did I begin to question that inherited position. I felt an immense burden in having to teach our congregation what the revealed will of God is in this matter of divorce and remarriage. I was not unaware that among my people there were those who had been divorced and remarried, and those who had been divorced and remained unmarried, and those who were in the process of divorce or contemplating it as a possibility. I knew that this was not an academic exercise, but would immediately affect many people very deeply. I was also aware of the horrendous statistics in our own country, as well as other Western countries, concerning the number of marriages that were ending in divorce, and the numbers of people who were forming second marriages and third marriages. In my study of Ephesians 5 I had become increasingly persuaded that there is a deep and profound significance to the union of husband and wife in “one flesh” as a parable of the relationship between Christ and his church. All of these things conspired to create a sense of solemnity and seriousness as I weighed the meaning and the implication of the Biblical texts on divorce and remarriage.
The upshot of that crucial experience was the discovery of what I believe is a New Testament prohibition of all remarriage except in the case where a spouse has died."
Source: http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2007/July/theremnant-July2007-one-flesh.a5w
< Message edited by keepingfaith -- 5/22/2008 8:09:20 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2008 10:44:08 PM
|
|
|
Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 985
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
|
quote:
I felt an immense burden in having to teach our congregation what the revealed will of God is in this matter of divorce and remarriage. I was not unaware that among my people there were those who had been divorced and remarried, and those who had been divorced and remained unmarried, and those who were in the process of divorce or contemplating it as a possibility. I knew that this was not an academic exercise, but would immediately affect many people very deeply.
I underlined the portion that really stuck out to me. Upon further study, it appears the author, Mr. Piper realized that remarriage was adultery per the Bible. Unfortunately, it was a fearful thing for him to actually put that teaching into practise, because now it was more than merely an "academic exercise." Increasingly, I am seeing the church to be this--an academic exercise of learned men. And Not actually the practical application of the Word of God. I believe it is this "exercise" or "routine" that some pastors and parishoners count on. It does not disturb their lives and they go on merely "exercising" their knowledge. Truthfully, Sunday morning often becomes an "exercise" in old traditions, anecdotes, and religious phrases and a few key scripture sprinkled in here and there.
It is this "Academic Exercise" in the Church as a whole that has caused the Word of God to cease to be practical and useable for Sunday-morning saints. Living the Word of God is MUCH more challenging then just listening to a cognitively resonant lecture on Sunday morning. I have learned from reading the posts of those who champion remarriage and speaking with those who believe in remarriage, that it is their choice to follow one interpretation (albeit popular) over the practical unity of scripture in the bible on the matter.
On several occasions I have stood corrected of my beliefs after diligent study of the word of God. I am not too proud to humble myself to look into the scriptures and find that what I've believed was incorrect. There is nothing wrong with admitting that the body of information you have inherited is largely wrong. But, I must say, it takes a little something more than "admitting" that one has been mistaken to truly live-out what one has learned from the Word of God.
Like Piper, one may find that he/she holds a view that is largely unpopular. It is then our choice as to whether we will stand for the truth or fall for error. In learning that new information, Piper, like all of us, has a choice how we will act. That is the burden that we as christians carry. To swim upstream when the whole world is swimming downstream.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2008 1:55:17 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 6985
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
"I felt an immense burden in having to teach our congregation what the revealed will of God is in this matter of divorce and remarriage. I was not unaware that among my people there were those who had been divorced and remarried, and those who had been divorced and remained unmarried, and those who were in the process of divorce or contemplating it as a possibility.
Source: http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2007/July/theremnant-July2007-one-flesh.a5w
What was Piper's response to them? What kind of advice/counsel did he give them?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2008 6:01:27 AM
|
|
|
car2ner
Posts: 2936
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
|
quote:
Putting out an adulterer? They put themselves out when they stepped out of the marriage bed into the bed of another.
Really? Is that what Jesus told the woman caught in adultery? You just put yourself out of the Kingdom by committing adultery?
Far be it from me to put anyone out of the Kingdom. That is far differant from letting someone leave the house. But it seems that some posters here have no problem with scripture supposedly putting people out of the kingdom. It comes back to "if you judge ths person unworthy, how dare you. Therefore we judge you unworthy, too". ick
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2008 8:20:40 AM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
What was Piper's response to them? What kind of advice/counsel did he give them?
Piper teaches that NOTHING dissolves the marriage bond outside of death. That is why remarriage is forbidden and why he will not marry ANY divorced person, but he stands side by side with his church's pastors who WILL marry certain divorced persons (fitting the adultery/desertion allowance they believe is ok). Once they are "married" THEN he accepts them into his congregation and then says that they HAVE to stay together----that somehow the adultery they committed was a one time offense and now THIS marriage is permanent----just like the original marriages were "permanent" til death.
Piper has a real credibility issue in reconciling his view that the original marriage is still binding on the parties involved, yet also teaching that one MUST stay in the relationship Jesus Himself says is adultery (and it can only be adultery because one is ALREADY bound to another). Piper rightfully teaches that adultery does not dissolve the original marriage.........and he rightfully teaches that entering into a second marriage is adultery. Yet, he then takes us back to OT law made for the nation of Israel to say that a wife/husband cannot return to each other AFTER they have "married/committed adultery" with another. He uses Deut. 24:1-4 as proof that this is what we need to follow. However, God repudiated Deut. 24 in Jer. 3:1 and the "fruit" of this can be seen in the OT examples of David/Michal, Hosea/Gomer, Priests/covenant wives in Mal. 2.
Piper teaches that even though one is BOUND TIL DEATH to the one God joined them to, they cannot return to their lawful spouse, they must instead stay with the one Jesus said they are committing adultery with. What a web we weave when we only are willing to address PART of scripture and not follow all of scripture out to it's end. To add ridiculousness on top of that, he then teaches that if one of the parties is not remarried, they are BOUND to remain unmarried. They are obligated to the first marriage they entered into (they are BOUND to the other person), yet the spouse is NOT bound to them, but to their new "spouse" whom Jesus said they are committing adultery with. In essense, Piper is teaching a form of polygamy and to be real honest, it is utter confusion-------yes, he is closer to the truth concerning the permanency of marriage than many other pastors today, yet, what he teaches is that those who sin can REMAIN in their sin or that somehow because of God's grace, the adulterous union is somehow acceptable and to be honored as a valid marriage (even though one or both parties are still bound to their original spouses til death)............ Is your head spinning yet? 
< Message edited by lastblast -- 5/23/2008 8:28:18 AM >
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2008 10:02:25 AM
|
|
|
keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Piper is teaching a form of polygamy and to be real honest, it is utter confusion-------yes, he is closer to the truth concerning the permanency of marriage than many other pastors today, yet, what he teaches is that those who sin can REMAIN in their sin or that somehow because of God's grace, the adulterous union is somehow acceptable and to be honored as a valid marriage (even though one or both parties are still bound to their original spouses til death)............ Is your head spinning yet?
This is a perfect example of why I don't trust someone because of their "credentials." We can trust our good ole God given logic... and do the math and see that both ends of his equation cannot be correct.
Since his first conclusion refutes his second conclusion, we can assume his ultimate conclusion regarding staying in second marriages is flawed (because according to his first conclusion those cannot be valid marriages).
Grace turning adultery into a lawful marriage....I believe is one of the biggest heresies on this subject used by many...and how we got this far away from the truth. Nowhere does it say grace/forgiveness dissolves the marriage bond, it says death does.
We are forgiven...but that doesn't mean we were never married and never divorced. The lengths some will go to try to explain away God's Word is frightening. My stomach gets sick thinking about how much confusion there is surrounding this topic and how CLEAR God's Word is...but how much muddying of the water is going on.
< Message edited by keepingfaith -- 5/23/2008 10:25:37 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
