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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2008 2:54:07 PM
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keepingfaith
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quote:
I realize how difficult it is to rethink long held beliefs, and yet that's exactly what the Bereans did. They were both open minded eagerly receiving Paul's radical new-to-them interpretation of scripture and diligent to verify what he presented was correct.
Actually, I did rethink my long held beliefs... and I had such an open mind and heart that I went from believing that all divorce and remarriage was OK, to believing that there were exceptions (adultery and abandonment) for remarriage, to believing marriage is permanent and the only allowance for remarriage is when one's spouse is dead.
Many of the people I've come to know who believe in the permanency of marriage, also used to believe there were exceptions before they studied it themselves. Some have turned so far around that they divorced their spouse thinking they could move on, and now see that is not an option and God's will for them is to remain faithful and obedient and pray for reconciliation of their family (even if their spouse has "moved on").
I do hope for your sake, that you are studying something other than that book.
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"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2008 4:23:33 PM
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car2ner
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And my thoughts have gone the other way, from the "Never divorce" mind set, to the "there might be a call for it in some cases" after studying.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2008 5:28:21 PM
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bricole77
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This is really sad. Everytime I come onto this thread its the same people dominating it with thier same rants of thier interpretation of God's word and condemming people to hell who remarry. Its almost laughable if it werent for the fact that people honestly searching for God's love and mercy look to other Christians for wisdom and come onto this endless thread to see Christians bickering back and forth about thier interpretations of God's word. Because unless u are all knowing like Him, it is but an interpretation. This is the kind of stuff that sends non- Christians fleeing which nullifies the purpose of us being here, to glorify God and lead others to him. Not justify our own reasons for staying in our marriage or remarrying. I believe God's grace and mercy is enough for all of us, even those who (gasp) remarry.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2008 8:34:18 PM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bricole77
This is really sad. Everytime I come onto this thread its the same people dominating it with thier same rants of thier interpretation of God's word and condemming people to hell who remarry. Its almost laughable if it werent for the fact that people honestly searching for God's love and mercy look to other Christians for wisdom and come onto this endless thread to see Christians bickering back and forth about thier interpretations of God's word. Because unless u are all knowing like Him, it is but an interpretation. This is the kind of stuff that sends non- Christians fleeing which nullifies the purpose of us being here, to glorify God and lead others to him. Not justify our own reasons for staying in our marriage or remarrying. I believe God's grace and mercy is enough for all of us, even those who (gasp) remarry.
I can't allow myself to start posting in this thread but I had to stop in and say Very well said Bricole77.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2008 11:40:29 AM
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SealedEternal
Posts: 1173
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: Milwaukee, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bricole77
This is really sad. Everytime I come onto this thread its the same people dominating it with thier same rants of thier interpretation of God's word and condemming people to hell who remarry. Its almost laughable if it werent for the fact that people honestly searching for God's love and mercy look to other Christians for wisdom and come onto this endless thread to see Christians bickering back and forth about thier interpretations of God's word. Because unless u are all knowing like Him, it is but an interpretation. This is the kind of stuff that sends non- Christians fleeing which nullifies the purpose of us being here, to glorify God and lead others to him.
If we had to be all knowing like God to interpret His Word properly it would be useless and we couldn't be expected to understand and follow it, but He gave us His Word so that we could understand it and live by it. The main reason that man has different "interpretations of it is that he by nature wants to believe what he wants to believe rather than submitting to Him as our Lord. Man brings his own fallacious corrupted opinions into the issue and tries to twist God's Word to confirm up with his preconceived ideas of what is just, rather than supressing his own views and turming to Christ and trusting Him to rule his life.
His Words are clear and not open to "interpretation" when you put all of scripture in context looking to the clearest verses first and harmonizing it all together:
Genesis 2:21-24 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
Malachi 2:13-17 "This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. "For I hate divorce," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously." You have wearied the LORD with your words Yet you say, "How have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them," or, "Where is the God of justice?"
Ephesians 5:22-33 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
Matthew 5:31-32 "It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE'; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
Mark 10: 6-12 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
Romans 7:1-3 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
1 Corinthians 7:10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
1 Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
What the false teachers like to do is isolate certain verses out of context and interpret their proof text in a way that confirms their own preconceived ideas of how it should be, despite the fact that it contradicts most of the rest of the Bible. So then they go back and come up with excuses why all of the rest of the passages, such as the ones above, don't really mean what they seem to say because they contradict with their out of context proof text. That is a backwards approach to Bible Hermeneutics, and is how most false doctrines are created. It is not that God is an author of confusion, but that man's wicked hearts cause them to dishonestly divide His Word.
Anyone we is sent "fleeing" by God's commandments being presented, is someone who has no love for Him to begin with and has no interest in knowing Him or having Him as their Lord:
Luke 6:46-48 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? "Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built....
John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
John 14:21,23-24 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him." Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.
1 John 2:3-6 By this WE KNOW that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
1 John 5:2-3 By this WE KNOW that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 3:7-10 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. BY THIS the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
quote:
Not justify our own reasons for staying in our marriage or remarrying. I believe God's grace and mercy is enough for all of us, even those who (gasp) remarry.
By His grace He saves us from our sin, He does not give us a license to live in it:
Jude:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Romans 6:6-7 Knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.
Romans 6:14-18 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 6:22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
1 John 3:9-10 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
SealedEternal
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2008 1:18:46 PM
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car2ner
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I went to your site posted in your sig line to see how you interpreted other scriptures on additional subjects. Seeing how passionate you are about Easter and Christmas, I am surprised that you don't participate in those debates as well. Not trying to "ninja" the topic, it is just good to get a well rounded picture of the posters.
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"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2008 1:50:24 PM
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keepingfaith
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quote:
And my thoughts have gone the other way, from the "Never divorce" mind set, to the "there might be a call for it in some cases" after studying.
Can you please point me to the verse that says a WOMAN can divorce for adultery and remarry without it being adultery?
And the one that says if we marry the wrong person, that one doesn't count?
_____________________________
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 9:15:07 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
3. Where is the scripture that says a WOMAN can divorce for adultery?
in Jewish society [usually] only the man had this legal right ... also note in Mark 10:11,12 that Jesus is warning BOTH men AND womwn against groundless divorces ... i think it's pretty clear the spiritual principles apply for BOTH sexes.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 9:16:39 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 4192
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bricole77
This is really sad. Everytime I come onto this thread its the same people dominating it with thier same rants of thier interpretation of God's word and condemming people to hell who remarry.
copying and pasting the same words over and over again with the same phrases underlined. hardly typing an original thought. sometimes i really think they are just trying to market their websites. just remember the people misinterpreting Jesus and Paul's guidance regarding marriage are saying women shouldn't be wearing jeans or sneakers and don't want Christians to celebrate Easter or Christmas.
< Message edited by iwillfearnoevil -- 10/6/2008 9:24:09 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 9:20:22 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 4192
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
Let's just pretend for a second that the exception is for adultery...
i don't think Jesus is a fairy tale and thus no need to pretend:
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:32; see also Matthew 19:9)
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 9:40:19 AM
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tn1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
quote:
ORIGINAL: tn1
It's especially difficult for people to rethink the traditional doctrine of mdr. The traditional doctrine basically affirms that marriage is a sacrament, under ecclesial authority, and indissoluble. It's also taught the Jesus repudiated the bill of divorce restoring marriage to being indissoluble like it was in Eden, being only breakable by death.
That's a real strawman since no one here has ever suggested that marriage is a sacrament or that it is under ecclesial authority. I for one do not believe that the concept of sacraments is taught anywhere in the Bible, and have always stated that marriage is under God's authority alone. I also believe that scripture clearly teaches that Christians are not under the Old Covenant Law, so in that sense we aren't required to divorce and stone people anymore.
SealedEternal
If you'll notice, I didn't address this to anyone specific; rather, I was simply pointing out the traditional doctrine of mdr as expressed in the Cousel of Trent in the 16th century. There are more people reading this thread than just you.
And btw, the OT didn't "require divorce", rather divorce was allowed because of the hard-heartedness of mankind, the same hard-heartedness that breaks up marriages today.
Concerning stoning people, capital punishment still exists in many of the United States and in many countries; though capital punishment is administered differently among different peoples.
Moses established both civil and religious authority structures and laws as well as teachings concerning domestic and personal affairs. Issues concerning MDR were predominantly domestic/personal affairs, but were also under limited civil authority, with all (civil, domestic, & personal) being supported (but not controled) by the religious.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 10:07:43 AM
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tn1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'
This statement alone shows that God is presuming we will never have been married before. This is repeated over and over and He always says a man will leave his father and mother to be joined to his wife. When He describes the act of marriage, it looks like He is always assuming we've never been married before. So I don't see how remarriages fit into this description.
Thank you tn1 for reminding me to have an open mind, my eyes were opened tonight to something I've never seen before!
You're welcome.
That passage is repeated over and over because it's being quoted; and it is the way things are suppose to be, the divine ideal. But it doesn't mean that that's the way it always is. In Eden, marriage was the perfect familial union of two perfect people in a perfect environment of perfect relationship with God. None of that is true today. Today, marriage is the imperfect familial union of two imperfect people in a hostile environment often set against us and God.
And btw, the phrase "one flesh" is another ancient near-eastern idiomatic phrase meaning "family". If one is of my "flesh", he/she is part of may "family". So when a couple marries, they create a new family and establish new family ties often between two previously seperate families. One reason kings in the ancient near-east had so many wives was because everyone wanted to be related to the king. And marriage was also used as part of the treaty between two nations.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 10:21:40 AM
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tn1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
quote:
I realize how difficult it is to rethink long held beliefs, and yet that's exactly what the Bereans did. They were both open minded eagerly receiving Paul's radical new-to-them interpretation of scripture and diligent to verify what he presented was correct.
Actually, I did rethink my long held beliefs... and I had such an open mind and heart that I went from believing that all divorce and remarriage was OK, to believing that there were exceptions (adultery and abandonment) for remarriage, to believing marriage is permanent and the only allowance for remarriage is when one's spouse is dead.
Many of the people I've come to know who believe in the permanency of marriage, also used to believe there were exceptions before they studied it themselves. Some have turned so far around that they divorced their spouse thinking they could move on, and now see that is not an option and God's will for them is to remain faithful and obedient and pray for reconciliation of their family (even if their spouse has "moved on").
I do hope for your sake, that you are studying something other than that book.
I've went the other way. I was raised believing the traditional doctrine (no-divorce and certainly no-remarriage), but after much study and prayer have come to believe very differently. I believe there are moral and immoral reasons for divorce, but what ever the "reason", divorce breaks the marriage covenant and union. And remarriage is ok though not always wise.
You mentioned me studying something other than "that book"; which book are you speaking of. I assume you're not speaking of the Bible which is what I predominantly study. Other than that, I've read many books on mdr and recommend a few.
Concerning marriage being permanent; Jesus recognized that even marraiges joined together by God run the risk of being broken apart by man. And that's not even speaking of marriages not joined together by God. Marriage is a breakable human covenant either way ending in either death or divorce. Just like the command to not murder is given because people are not immortal but can die physically, the command to not divorce is given because marriages are not indissoluble but can be broken through man's effort. To build a doctrine upon the "permanancy of marriage" is to build a doctrine upon an illusion.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 10:46:22 AM
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tn1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tn1
quote:
ORIGINAL: huckfinn327
Other ancient law codes of nations that predated Moses and Israel had laws protecting women relating to divorce:
Code of Ur Nammu (2050 B.C.) which preceded Moses (1500 B.C.) by almost 600 years makes these statements: "If a man divorces his primary wife, he must pay her one mina of silver."
Code of Eshunna (1925 B.C): "If a man divorces a wife after having made her bear sons and takes another wife, he shall be expelled from his house and whatever property there is and he will go after him who will accept him."
Code of Hammurabi (1700 B.C.) "If a man wishes to divorce his wife who did not bear him children, he shall give her money to the full amount of her marriage-price and he shall also make good to her the dowry which she brought from her father's house and then he may divorce her.
That's cool, from the studies I've done I thought/think the bill of divorce was unique to Israel. But if not, that's great. I would like to study this more, please provide sourses and references. thanks,
Hey huckfinn,
I really am interested in studying this more; please do provide your sourses. The more we understand the cultural context of the peoples of the Bible, the better we can understand what was written to and through the authors of the Bible. Civil law is suppose to protect the weak and mitigate their oppression and restrain the evil of humanity.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 10:54:50 AM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 840
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quote:
in Jewish society [usually] only the man had this legal right ... also note in Mark 10:11,12 that Jesus is warning BOTH men AND womwn against groundless divorces ... i think it's pretty clear the spiritual principles apply for BOTH sexes.
Matthew 5:32
"but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
Mark 10
"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."
Luke 16:18
"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
He certainly does address women who divorce their husbands or whose husband's divorce them and says in every single case they will be committing adultery if they remarry. This affirms the fact that this exception was only for men who found the woman not to be a virgin during betrothal.
Are you asking me to believe something the Bible doesn't say?
We don't have to pretend Jesus said this... it wasn't an illusion either.
Luke 16:18
"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”
_____________________________
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 11:04:59 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
Are you asking me to believe something the Bible doesn't say?
We don't have to pretend Jesus said this... it wasn't an illusion either.
hardly anybody puts credence to this obsolete betrothal illusion ... but from reading these other opinions from anti-remarriage folks about women not wearing sneakers and how sinful it is to celebrate Christmas, it seems like the whole anti-remarriage fallacy is built from illusions
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 11:13:18 AM
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tn1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
If we had to be all knowing like God to interpret His Word properly it would be useless and we couldn't be expected to understand and follow it, but He gave us His Word so that we could understand it and live by it.
Hmm, Jesus said it's better to cut off one's hand than to continue to allow it to sin, or pluch out one's eye instead of allowing it to continue to sin. And some people in their zeal have done this but they did so without really understanding the point of the passage. Plucking out their eyes did nothing to stop the lust in their hearts. And cutting off their hands did nothing to stop the coveteousness that caused them to steal.
And didn't Paul say something about "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15. Paul encourages us to learn to properly interpret and use scripture because it takes diligent effort to do so, and because it's easy to misinterpret and misapply scripture.
Relationship with God and each other is relatively simple, being fulfilled in loving God and loving each other as we love ourselves; and yet one can study scripture for 100's of years and never understand it completely. Scripture is a vast unfathonable gold-mine of the living Word. Tools like learning the original languages and cultures help us mine deep. I suppose you're welcome to make surface observations if you wish and not do the work of digging if you wish.
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The main reason that man has different "interpretations of it is that he by nature wants to believe what he wants to believe rather than submitting to Him as our Lord.
I assume you include yourself in this generality recognizing that you aren't perfect in your submission to God either and that by nature you too want to believe what you want to believe.
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Man brings his own fallacious corrupted opinions into the issue and tries to twist God's Word to confirm up with his preconceived ideas of what is just, rather than supressing his own views and turming to Christ and trusting Him to rule his life.
Again, I assume that you also realize that you have your "own fallacious corrupted opinions" and you too "twist God's Word to confirm up with your preconceived ideas of what is just, rather than supressing your own view and turning to Christ and trusting Him to rule your life." Or do you believe that your opinions are perfected.
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His Words are clear and not open to "interpretation" when you put all of scripture in context looking to the clearest verses first and harmonizing it all together:
And yet what you've quoted in English, is in itself an "intepretation" from the original languages. Affirming that scripture is "not open to interpretation", actually only shows that you're not open to "interpretations" that do not agree with what you believe.
If you want to trust an interpretation that's been provided for you without studying it yourself, that's fine; but to not recognize that it is an "interpretation" is, well, illusionary.
< Message edited by tn1 -- 10/6/2008 12:45:09 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 11:29:41 AM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
hardly anybody puts credence to this obsolete betrothal illusion ... but from reading these other opinions from anti-remarriage folks about women not wearing sneakers and how sinful it is to celebrate Christmas, it seems like the whole anti-remarriage fallacy is built from illusions
If you have to keep deflecting and resorting to attacks instead of providing scripture to prove your case, there must be a problem with it. I don't know anyone who believes in the permanency of marriage who believes the above and it is not relevant to the discussion.
Since there is no scripture saying that a woman can divorce for adultery and remarry, that is an illusion and not God's Word.
You only answered 1 of the 3 questions I posed to you...
1. Do you know anyone who is sinless? Because Jesus commanded us NOT to cast stones unless we are without sin, using the very example of an adulteress. How do you reconcile your interpretation with this, and the entire NT that is all about grace? Won't we be judged by the same measure we've judged others?
2. Who does this exception apply to? Which party is free to remarry? The innocent, the adulterer, or both (without committing adultery in remarriage)?
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"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 11:52:33 AM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
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quote:
Again, I assume that you also realize that you have your "own fallacious corrupten opinions" and you too "twist God's Word to confirm up with your preconceived ideas of what is just, rather than supressing your own view and turning to Christ and trusting Him to rule your life."
Trust me... I know plenty of people walking this truth out... and it's not because this is what they "wanted the Bible to say."
Which interpretation is someone more likely to want to twist God's Word to line up with?
1. One that appeals to their flesh- the easy way?
2. Or the narrow difficult path? (that lines up with Jesus teaching the difficult narrow way)
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"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 1:19:58 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 4192
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
If you have to keep deflecting and resorting to attacks instead of providing scripture to prove your case, there must be a problem with it.
i have provided scripture, you say Jesus is being misquoted. seems we are at an impass.
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Photoblogging My Life
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 1:26:01 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 4192
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
You only answered 1 of the 3 questions I posed to you...
1. Do you know anyone who is sinless? Because Jesus commanded us NOT to cast stones unless we are without sin, using the very example of an adulteress. How do you reconcile your interpretation with this, and the entire NT that is all about grace? Won't we be judged by the same measure we've judged others?
2. Who does this exception apply to? Which party is free to remarry? The innocent, the adulterer, or both (without committing adultery in remarriage)?
actually i answered 2 as i said Jesus is addressing innocent party as being free to remarry. i do not know anyone sinless besides Jesus, do you? it seems to me that the anti-remarriage crowd is all about casting stones at those who believe the Bible (ie, don't twist it by misquoting Jesus by trying to remove clauses like except for marital unfaithfulness.)
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Photoblogging My Life
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2008 1:45:01 PM
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keepingfaith
Posts: 840
Joined: 5/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
actually i answered 2 as i said Jesus is addressing innocent party as being free to remarry. i do not know anyone sinless besides Jesus, do you? it seems to me that the anti-remarriage crowd is all about casting stones at those who believe the Bible
Sorry, I must have missed your other answer, I might have been reading too fast.
No, I don't know anyone besides Jesus who is sinless... so I'm wondering how are we qualified to cast stones at an adulterer?
If you are saying only the innocent party is free to remarry without it being adultery, do you mean the guilty party (the adulterer) cannot remarry without it being adultery?
_____________________________
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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