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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/26/2005 1:52:00 AM
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alaska
Posts: 171
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quote:
It is also clear that to call something that is of the Holy Spirit as evil and of Satan is teetering severely close to, if not over, the border of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. And that is exactly how it smells to me. To call the good works of the Spirit that produce good fruit in the restored lives and families anything other than a testimony to God's grace and power is simply blasphemy.
It is often overlooked that the Spirit wrote the Word. If the rightly divided word, understanding the fundamental basic truths of the Bible that the NT has the final say on ALL points that conflict between the Old and New Testaments, the blasphemy is to be found, not in those who claim remarriage to be adultery, but in those who desecrate the Words of Jesus who plainly stated that remarriage while the first lawful wife lives is in fact adultery. He abolished the temporary allowance suffered under the OT. because it was not the truth. It was allowed only temporarily for the hardness of their hearts until the redeemer came to redeem his people from the transgressions that existed under the first covenant. The law or truth that the NT was to write on the hearts of those under that covenant are those truths established by him whose death made it possible for those truths to be so written. He not only dies to make it possible for His truth to be written on their hearts, but dictates what the truth is that is to be so written.
Secular humanism exalts their sense of what is right over the more excellent reasons provided for us by Jesus. Hence, those not under the NT teachings produce reasonings claiming rights to the innocent party, which reasoning is nowhere to be found but from the lips of the secularists.
What is right for the innocent party is to defend the fact that their lawful marriage is recorded in heaven as indissoluable by Jesus' NT commentary on divorce and to be faithful thereto as the Word commands us to be faithful unto death.
But the carnal mind will have none of it and is offended as was Herodious.
Are we the hand that offends you which you would like to be cut off?
Or are we a sweet savour to God as those standing against the wave of deception in this adulterous and sinful generation? Many of whom have been persuaded that they are right with God while as Jesus' word condemns them as adulterers and adulteresses.
Not only does the man cause his wife to commit adultery when he divorces her, but also if he then becomes remarried to a woman who had not been previously married, he brings the sin of adultery on this single person, for which he will also be judged. His own adultery and the causing of two women's adultery.
The real blasphemy is claiming the first lawful marriage as a sin.
Was it a sin?
No.
Can it then be forgiven?
No.
Can a lawful marriage become a sin?
No.
The wrongs committed by the individuals involved in the marriage and the marriage itself are two entirely different things. Let's establish some stability here. There are the wrongs and then again there is that which God says is holy. The marriage itself is a God ordained institution upon which He himself has the right to dictate what are the perameters: which he did through Jesus revealing that remarriage is adultery.
If remarriage is adultery then the divorce has not dissolved the marriage, which fits perfectly with the understanding that marriage is not a sin from which someone may repent. It also fits perfectly with what Jesus said: "What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder".
But there are those who exalt themselves above the knowledge of God.
< Message edited by alaska -- 12/26/2005 2:08:15 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/26/2005 2:20:41 AM
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Keabird
Posts: 695
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
Jesus' word condemns them as adulterers and adulteresses
"There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus."
It is easy for those who have NOT experienced abandonment and/or adultery, with divorce as a result, to "condemn" those who have remarried. Until someone has lived in those shoes, and has experienced God's infinite healing, mercy and grace, they are unlikely to understand the fact that He DOES extend His grace to those who remarry.
I mentioned previously that there has as yet been no response to my comments about David and the bread. The person who referred to it a couple of posts ago had obviously not read the original post about it. My point was, the Pharisees were being legalistic about "law" and Jesus challenged them about David having eaten the forbidden bread. He told the Pharisees, "the Sabbath was made for the benefit of man, not man for the Sabbath". In other words, when occasion calls for it, God, who inspired Moses to write the law, is also bigger than law, and is able to override the "rules" or choose not to hold someone accountable to the law, as they are ultimately accountable to HIM. There has already been much said about that in this thread. This is why God is able to bless a remarriage that is formed in Christ - and He does.
Are you anti-remarriage folk denying that God is blessing remarriages around the world? Are you claiming that people who say God has answered prayers in helping them with their remarriage are not REALLY having those prayers answered by God at all? Be very, very careful and thoughtful about answering this.
I can tell you in full confidence and faith, that I am in a remarriage where God has answered prayer after prayer for the marriage TO STAY TOGETHER. You may not like that, or want to accept it, but IT IS THE FACT. You will have to argue with God about why He has answered prayers and clearly directed me to remain in a remarriage and work on it with His help.
In fact, over the last few days, as I have thought about this thread, I have felt that it is time to withdraw from the thread, as I feel it is actually not helpful to people who are learning to trust in God for their remarriage. It is only likely to bring confusion and feelings of guilt and condemnation - none of which are from the Lord. So I will no longer be reading the thread, and pray that those o f you who are so convinced that remarriage is always wrong after divorce will learn about God's compassionate heart, as He showed with David and the bread.
"There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus."
"For He knows how we are formed, He knows that we are but dust."
God bless you all with the richness of His abundant mercy and grace.
Sherri
_____________________________
"The thief comes to kill, steal and destroy, but I have come that you may have life and have it abundantly." John 10:10
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/26/2005 2:35:09 AM
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alaska
Posts: 171
Joined: 12/11/2005
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quote:
"There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus."
My intention is not to be cruel or unfeeling. It is to defend the truth even if that means being hated or misunderstood.
Someone is not in Christ Jesus if they are actively involved in a lifestyle of adultery. Ignorance to the fact of what constitutes adultery does not change the truth.
The rest of that verse says to those not walking after the flesh but after the Spirit. Being not in a state of being condemned is on condition of whether or not that person is walking in the Spirit. Jesus said those choosing to not believe are condemned. Isn't that what this whole discussion is about: whether or not what Jesus said is true or whether or not we believe what he taught?
Adultery is a work of the flesh which those committing it will not inherit the kingdom of God. Be not deceived.
The Spirit also wrote the words revealing that remarriage is adultery. Hence, someone is not in Him or not walking in His Spirit to deny his word seeing He is that Word and truth.
Though hand join in hand, adulterers and adulteresses shall not not go unpunished.
Feeling guilty?
The mercy of God allows us to feel guilty so that we may know we need to repent.
Like pain in our body tells us we need to tend to the cause.
< Message edited by alaska -- 12/26/2005 2:52:33 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/26/2005 11:43:46 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
This is why God is able to bless a remarriage that is formed in Christ - and He does.
But Sherri, IS a remarriage Jesus Himself called adultery, "formed in Christ"?
quote:
Are you anti-remarriage folk denying that God is blessing remarriages around the world?
I have said this before and I truly believe it..........the Lord deals with each of us according to HIS timing. Because we "appear" to be blessed doesn't mean we don't have sin in our lives which needs to be addressed/dealt with. It just means that God up to this point, has chosen to deal with other areas first.
quote:
In fact, over the last few days, as I have thought about this thread, I have felt that it is time to withdraw from the thread, as I feel it is actually not helpful to people who are learning to trust in God for their remarriage. It is only likely to bring confusion and feelings of guilt and condemnation - none of which are from the Lord.
Maybe those feelings you are feeling Sherri is that NOW is the time to start dealing with what the Lord's Word says on the issue. Don't negate those feelings, search them out to see if in fact the Lord IS dealing with you. Many times when the Lord deals with us it is FAR from comfortable. I know personally, when the Lord has dealt with me concerning my own sins, I have felt literally sick to my stomach.......in those cases, my behavior did NOT line up with His Word and He wanted to show me this and guide me into responding according to His Will.
quote:
"There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus."
"WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT"..............read also verses 13-14. It's very important that we take ALL scripture in context and not pull one out here and one out there to apply it to our situations......May we all be blessed as we seek HIS face and will for our lives according to His Word. Blessings in Him, Cindy
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/28/2005 6:32:37 PM
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lilkitties
Posts: 28
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I'm sorry, but I can't help but view some of the replies from the no-remarriage people as usually totally lacking compassion. I know, they'd say that it has to do with the letter of the law, so to speak. But Jesus was not so far into the law that He missed the spirit of the law and also people along the way. I maintain my view that if a couple divorces there is no reason why they must be further punished by having to live alone or else reconcile (especially when there has been abuse). There is no love in that at all. When I look at the rest of the Scriptures (and yes I've read them, twice so far) I do not see a God who would tell me that I must suffer for my spouse's sin for the rest of my life.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/28/2005 7:14:54 PM
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hnt
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Yes lilkitties I do think alot of people don't see the spirit behind alot of what has been said in scripture. I mean to say that people that re-marry and are happy will never enter the gates of heaven is a little black and white to me. To say that God hasn't dealt with those who are happy in those situations yet - is strengthing it also. I have seen couples remarriaged for a long time, finally died of old age still happy within their relationship....I guess according to some he must have forgotten or something. Or maybe that "sin" wasn't worth dealing with I guess.
I see attitudes, behaviors, actions, etc condemned in scripture - and told to stay away from those people. Separation I guess is okay, but BOY if you divorce and possiblity go on with your life down the road are you in BIG trouble! Personally, I think the spirit of what is being said is lost in alot of people's translations. I am sure it will stay that way also for them.
I am not divorced, or remarried - and I respect the union of marraige. I also have a really hard time with the idea of you have one chance at love as a couple, and then forever more it will forbidden fruit for you. It seems strange since love is what God is all about in the first place isn't he? There are alot of people that struggle with marriage, and even more that work at that goal of sticking it out til the end. Then you have those that have one person struggling to keep it alive, and is left behind...always be alone forever because of this forbidden fruit of "only once"!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/28/2005 8:45:23 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lilkitties
I'm sorry, but I can't help but view some of the replies from the no-remarriage people as usually totally lacking compassion. I know, they'd say that it has to do with the letter of the law, so to speak. But Jesus was not so far into the law that He missed the spirit of the law and also people along the way. I maintain my view that if a couple divorces there is no reason why they must be further punished by having to live alone or else reconcile (especially when there has been abuse). There is no love in that at all. When I look at the rest of the Scriptures (and yes I've read them, twice so far) I do not see a God who would tell me that I must suffer for my spouse's sin for the rest of my life.
Each of us has the freedom to take the Word of God and apply it to the lives we say are IN CHRIST, or we have the freedom to explain away whatever is not pleasant for us. Many have explained away the Words of the Lord----that is why we see the growing acceptance of homosexuality in the church as well as rampant divorce/remarriage. Most people, scripture teaches, will follow the broad road of destruction. If we love our brethren, we should encourage each other to walk the narrow path. In Him, Cindy
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/28/2005 11:48:49 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
Yes lilkitties I do think alot of people don't see the spirit behind alot of what has been said in scripture. I mean to say that people that re-marry and are happy will never enter the gates of heaven is a little black and white to me.
Separation I guess is okay, but BOY if you divorce and possiblity go on with your life down the road are you in BIG trouble! Personally, I think the spirit of what is being said is lost in alot of people's translations. I am sure it will stay that way also for them.
I also have a really hard time with the idea of you have one chance at love as a couple, and then forever more it will forbidden fruit for you. Then you have those that have one person struggling to keep it alive, and is left behind...always be alone forever because of this forbidden fruit of "only once"!
Dont' you think the Lord knew ALL the differing scenerios of marriage and all the sins involved in marital relationships, yet He said what He said ("remain unmarried or be reconciled" and "whosoever divorces and marries another commits adultery).
Yes, God is love..........His is AGAPE love......that is the love those in Christ are expected to extend to others-----especially those whom the Lord joined us with. When we walk in God's love, Agape love, we WILL remain committed no matter what sin comes against us----because we desire and place that person's good above our own. We must also remember that God has called us to obedience and the "dying to self". The scripture "it is no longer I that live, but Christ who lives within me" is what EVERY Christian should aspire to in their walk with the Lord. When we live for Christ, we "die to self" we do not justify what we "should have"..........we acknowledge our circumstances that we DO have and live to the Glory of Christ.
Blessings in Jesus, Cindy
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/29/2005 2:45:21 AM
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alaska
Posts: 171
Joined: 12/11/2005
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Jesus was hated for His love. He said that if they hated him they will hate those who follow him. Is it any wonder when we quote his words that remarriage is adultery, that we are accused of not having love? Did Jesus not have love to say the same things we are saying? Did he not say it was not so from the beginning the context clearly implying it is not so now?
Why then was divorce allowed under the law? For the hardness of their hearts, not because it was right. It is no longer allowed, for hardness of heart is no longer tolerated.
Divorce is almost in every case an expression of unforgiveness. As it is in the case of divorcing on the grounds of adultery.
It is those favouring what Moses allowed which Jesus abolished that are under the bondage to the law. The law ministered condemnation because it didn't provide the power we see the NT has brought to change the heart. Those refusing to be changed are then found excusing their unchanged carnal natures using the OT laws that have now been made obsolete by Jesus to justify their disobedience. They are in bondage to the law and not free in Christ to see by faith the more excellent way revealed by the Reformer of the law. They have stumbled at the stumblingstone and that stone will grind them to powder unless they repent.
Hence the law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Jesus through Peter made reference to believers being made partakers of the divine nature through Christ.
Those offended at Jesus' words who resort to the carnality of justifying themselves by the law and not holding to what Jesus taught in the NT concerning divorce/remarriage are simply manifesting to everyone that they are not partaking of that divine nature the NT has made available.
If they were partaking of that divine nature they would rejoice at the gloriousness of the truth concerning the permanency of marriage after the pattern of the first marriage wherein it was impossible for them to be no longer one flesh for as long as they lived.
NT glorious truth is but dead letter to the unquickened, which category, sadly, most all so-called Christian leaders occupy.
< Message edited by alaska -- 12/30/2005 1:19:30 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/30/2005 8:46:18 AM
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Restored_Heart
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One thing I feel needs to be emphasized....
DIVORCE/REMARRIAGE DOES NOT EQUAL ADULTERY!!
I know that these scriptures have been included in previous posts, but I feel the need to bring them back to the front...
Matthew 19:3-11
3Some Pharisees came and tried to trap him with this question: "Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife for any reason?"
4"Haven't you read the Scriptures?" Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning `God made them male and female.' 5And he said, `This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.' 6Since they are no longer two but one, let no one separate them, for God has joined them together."
7"Then why did Moses say a man could merely write an official letter of divorce and send her away?" they asked.
8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted divorce as a concession to your hard-hearted wickedness, but it was not what God had originally intended. 9And I tell you this, a man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery--unless his wife has been unfaithful."
10Jesus' disciples then said to him, "Then it is better not to marry!"
11"Not everyone can accept this statement," Jesus said. "Only those whom God helps. 12Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made that way by others, and some choose not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone who can, accept this statement."
Remarriage is adultery in SOME cases, but not ALL cases.
Divorce for any reason? NO
Divorce for specific reason of unfaithfulness? YES
These are Jesus' words...
Do I believe divorce should be commonplace or occur frequently? NO
Do I think marriages should be saved? YES, but one cannot do it alone.
What if the unrepentant sinner leaves the marriage? Then I am not bound.... (see reference to 1 Corinthians 7). Not bound means contract that binds (i.e. marriage contract) is dissolved.
These are Paul's words....
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/30/2005 9:10:43 AM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 945
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
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You know a lot of opinion and verbiage has been cast about about remarriage being sinful. Well boys and girls let us look to the real sin and the real problem.
Here is the real problem: people sin.
Now that is not mind boggling or all that enlightening. Each of us knows this simple truth. But what needs to be emphasized more than anything else is that people continue to sin every day in many ways. And what is really evident from this thread and from the "thou canst remarry" crowd is this: they commit a grievous sin of false teaching.
Yes, when you lay out the claim that Jesus does not allow second marriage in the case if Biblical divorce, you are spreading a lie about Christ. Christ never said it, never meant it, and in fact acknowledged and laid out the case of Biblical divorce. So before you go about telling someone else they cannot remarry simply because they are divorced, you should stop, drop, and pray. Remove that giant redwood log from your eye and think to yourself "maybe I don't know the situation" and even better think "what is the loving thing to do in Christ's name".
You see, people are not robots, they are not drones, and they are not minions of God. We are children of God. We ARE seated in the heavenly places right now. This is not some future event (check it out for yourself). We are children of God and we are loved by our heavenly Father. And as such, He blesses us with many spiritual blessings and many physical blessings.
So then to tell someone that their second marriage is a sin, even though it was put together by God, ordained by God, presided over by God and His representatives on Earth, and affirmed in more ways than your tiny brain can even conceive that our loving Father chooses to bless us, is even more sinful.
I am so tired of the same identical debate which has been put forth time and time again and which we as a collective group have debunked many times over. So then here it is again. There are scripturally valid reasons for divorce, and in so doing, their are scripturally valid later marriages. I would even say that a truly repentant sinner is free to marry again as well.
The legalism that preaches a false doctrine that repentant sinners cannot marry again is a lie and sinful. And in fact, downright damaging to families. Especially when it is preached to people with perfectly normal healthy families and it causes them to fall into sin and divorce to satisfy the Pharisee's legalism.
If you want to be pro-family and pro-God, then you will support the families that have struggled out of horrible divorces and found peace in Christ in a new family under a second (or even later marriage). Anything less than that and you are simply working in the service of the minions of those in this world that seek to dishonor God.
I am neuronstatic. I was divorced on scriptural grounds. I am married again in the presence and power of God. I was married by a minister who himself was divorced previously and is married now. I am at peace and I am focused on God to build a new combined family from the remnants of 2 seriously hurting families.
In other words, I am doing the will of God. How about you?
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/30/2005 12:52:11 PM
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lilkitties
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"we should encourage each other to walk the narrow path."
So my fellow Christans should encourage me to either a.) remain in an emotionally abusive marriage or b.) remain alone for the rest of my life with no chance of remarriage or to have children? There is NO love in that. I do not believe that I must be punished for the rest of my life because of my husband's sin.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/30/2005 5:56:53 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lilkitties
"we should encourage each other to walk the narrow path."
So my fellow Christans should encourage me to either a.) remain in an emotionally abusive marriage or b.) remain alone for the rest of my life with no chance of remarriage or to have children? There is NO love in that. I do not believe that I must be punished for the rest of my life because of my husband's sin.
We Christians should encourage each other to continue following Christ; to not turn away from Him and His commands because they are too hard to bear. When we follow Him, even down lonely, dark pathways, HE will enable us to accomplish those hard things set before us........many times He sends brothers and sisters to come alongside and encourage a faltering saint to PERSEVERE. Blessings in Him, Cindy
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/31/2005 12:20:45 AM
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TamianDan
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Joined: 12/30/2005
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I am a third time married. My first marriage my husband cheated on me and then left me. I was younger and tried to keep us together, but he left.
Second marriage was 8 years of hell. He became a drug addict who disapearred often and cheated on me several times. Even though I still looked to God and tried to make it work... he finally left.
Third marriage... alot different. He is a believer, a christian as I am. He was married once to a woman who cheated on him several times and he tried as well to make it work with her yet she left him.
Our marriage is wonderful and I know it is blessed because I see how the Lord works in our lives. I see how great we are together because we have the Lord binding us, as a part of us, of our marriage. It is more wonderful than I could ever imagine a marriage could be.
And that's about all I wanted to add. Take care all.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/31/2005 1:04:52 AM
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alaska
Posts: 171
Joined: 12/11/2005
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quote:
I do not believe that I must be punished for the rest of my life because of my husband's sin.
When tribulation or persecution arises for the words sake, should we call that being punished?
Yet Jesus said there are those who will become offended at tribulation the word will cause in their lives. That is what we are seeing on this thread by those calling tribulation for the words sake, punishment.
The state of being offended at Jesus' words are also evident by the tactic of relegating the former lawful and holy marriage as a sin, which is impossible to do. But such blasphemy is necessary in order to claim that it is forgiven and passed away in order to justify the second marriage which in reality is adultery.
Noone has attempted to refute the fact that an exception clause can relate to a closely associated aspect of the subject being addressed in order to prohibit entirely the aspect of the subject that is being directly addressed.
Jesus introduces an exception in his dialogue concerning the permanency of marriage in order to emphasize that the only way a man can divorce his wife is if he does it before he marries her as we see possible in their culture by what Joseph was about to do to Mary.
Does anyone care to see an example of how an exception clause can be inserted into a statement in order to emphasize prohibition?
Since it is assumed that Jesus had to be referring to the married state in his exception clause thereby concluding that adultery is a grounds for divorce, evidence proving that the function of an exception clause can serve the purpose, not to show permissiveness but rather prohibition, should be of serious concern. An honest person cannot lightly dismiss such evidence showing that the exception clause could have been rather a serious emphasis of prohibiting divorce and remarriage.
Please don't pretend to have successfully addressed the sound arguments from scripture supporting that what God has joined together, man may not put asunder.
Is it not true that those opposing us plainly are on a campaign to prove that what God has joined together, man may in fact put asunder and that Jesus really didn't mean what those words appear to be saying?
Should it not be of extreme interest to discover that while Jesus did allow a certain kind of divorce, the married state stands unbreakable by divorce as seen clearly in Mark 10:2-12 and Luke 16:18 and 1 Cor. 7:39? The fact that it is unbreakable by divorce is proven by the fact that to marry a divorced person is to commit adultery. Why is it adultery? Because the divorce has not dissolved the marriage. And should we be surprised that the divorce has not dissolved the marriage since Jesus said, what God has joined together, let not man put asunder?
Yes, a certain type of divorce is allowed under the New Testament. But that divorce does not contradict the plain statements by Jesus in Mark 10:2-12 that shows that to divorce from the married state for ANY reason and to remarry is adultery.
Because of the ignorance to the fact that there existed in their culture a PREMARITAL divorce for fornication (not for adultery), multitudes have been deceived into believing that Jesus allows the postmarital divorce for adultery. If he had allowed the post marital divorce for adultery then he could not have so emphatically stated that what God has joined together, let not man put asunder.
The divorce people very clearly push their opinion that it is the man's right to divorce his wife for adultery. But it is not a right but a wrong. The right thing to do is defend the institution of marriage as Jesus did and take on the mindset that the loss of opposite sex companionship in marriage through a breakup or divorce is a form of tribulation for the Word's sake that should be borne honourably unto death if need be if reconciliation doesn't occur.
It is cruel and very unchristianlike to imply that a person enduring tribulation for the Word's sake is being punished. That sounds like something that he who comes to steal, kill and destroy would say.
I would not like to be one who caused one of Jesus' little ones to err who accepted in childlike simplicity the plainly worded message of the gospel that divorce and remarriage is adultery. According to Jesus, whosoever divorces and remarries commits adultery.
< Message edited by alaska -- 12/31/2005 1:15:05 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/31/2005 7:05:46 AM
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northstar
Posts: 17
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lilkitties
I'm sorry, but I can't help but view some of the replies from the no-remarriage people as usually totally lacking compassion. I know, they'd say that it has to do with the letter of the law, so to speak. But Jesus was not so far into the law that He missed the spirit of the law and also people along the way. I maintain my view that if a couple divorces there is no reason why they must be further punished by having to live alone or else reconcile (especially when there has been abuse). There is no love in that at all. When I look at the rest of the Scriptures (and yes I've read them, twice so far) I do not see a God who would tell me that I must suffer for my spouse's sin for the rest of my life.
Of course He was that far into the Law. If He had broken one single commandment then He could not have died in our place.
Where do people say that Jesus broke the Law. He didn't. Ever.
He might not have kept the Talmud, which are the commandments that the Pharisees added to the Law...aka 'traditions of men'...but He never broke a single one of God's commandments.
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Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/31/2005 12:24:31 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 919
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quote:
ORIGINAL: alaska
Because of the ignorance to the fact that there existed in their culture a PREMARITAL divorce for fornication (not for adultery), multitudes have been deceived into believing that Jesus allows the postmarital divorce for adultery. If he had allowed the post marital divorce for adultery then he could not have so emphatically stated that what God has joined together, let not man put asunder.
I keep hearing reference to this....
Can you show me - in scripture, where it says this (in reference to the only premarital permission) about divorce?
All the scriptures I have seen and looked up show it to be in cases of marriage -both during betrothal and after the marriage ceremony.
Thanks
In Him and in His service...
Amy
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"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/31/2005 2:03:52 PM
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northstar
Posts: 17
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hunterjumper777
quote:
ORIGINAL: alaska
Because of the ignorance to the fact that there existed in their culture a PREMARITAL divorce for fornication (not for adultery), multitudes have been deceived into believing that Jesus allows the postmarital divorce for adultery. If he had allowed the post marital divorce for adultery then he could not have so emphatically stated that what God has joined together, let not man put asunder.
Can you show me - in scripture, where it says this (in reference to the only premarital permission) about divorce?
All the scriptures I have seen and looked up show it to be in cases of marriage -both during betrothal and after the marriage ceremony.
Thanks
In Him and in His service...
Amy
It's Matthew 5 and Matthew 19, where the 'exception clause' is mentioned.
The word which is often mistranslated as 'adultery' is actually the greek word (porneia) for fornication.
So if you can divorce only in the case of fornication, and fornication is sex before marriage, this only fits when you take into account the Jewish custom of betrothal being as binding as marriage.
Matthew 5
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Matthew 19
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
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Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Psalm 122:6
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/31/2005 6:03:27 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 919
Joined: 7/23/2005
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quote:
It's Matthew 5 and Matthew 19, where the 'exception clause' is mentioned.
The word which is often mistranslated as 'adultery' is actually the greek word (porneia) for fornication.
So if you can divorce only in the case of fornication, and fornication is sex before marriage, this only fits when you take into account the Jewish custom of betrothal being as binding as marriage.
Matthew 5
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Matthew 19
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
I still don't see where fornication is premarital only. All the definitions I have seen refer to it as ANY sex outside the marriage contract - before, during or after.... Can you cite sources on this definition?
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"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/31/2005 6:20:06 PM
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Restored_Heart
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OK - I looked it up.... from the definitions I have seen, NONE say that this was premarital only....
Here is a quote:
quote:
Modern-day meanings of "fornication":
The definition of "fornication" in dictionaries, Strong's Concordance, and among religious liberals is restricted to actual sexual intercourse:
(*) The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition defines "fornication" simply as: "Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other." 1
(*) This dictionary also discusses the origin of the world. "Fornication" came from The Latin word "fornix," from which "fornicti," the ancestor of fornication, is derived. It meant a vault, an arch. The term also referred to a vaulted cellar or similar place where prostitutes plied their trade. 1
(*) A Dictionary of modern American Usage, defines "fornication" to refer to sexual intercourse by:
a.) two unmarried persons, or by
b.) one unmarried person with a married person. 2
c.) Strong's Concordance gives 19th century meanings to Greek and Hebrew words found in the Bible. It describes "pornea," as having a somewhat broader usage in Biblical times, compared to today. When used literally, it includes three activities: prostitution, adultery and incest. Figuratively it means idolatry, or sexual intercourse between unmarried persons. 3
for more from this site see here: Link
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"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 12/31/2005 6:57:09 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 919
Joined: 7/23/2005
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Looking still, another good explanation of divorce and remarriage:
quote:
First of all, the divine standard for marriage is lifelong commitment to one's spouse, and nothing else. Even though divorce was permitted in some cases under the Old Testament economy, Christ made it plain that this was not God's ideal. When He was asked this very question, "He answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." (Matthew 19:4-6).
This seems very comprehensive and conclusive, yet He immediately followed up this statement with the following apparent exception: "Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery" (Matthew 19:9; see also Matthew 5:31, 32).
quote:
In this day of widespread sexual license, however, this provision might well become a rather common ground for divorce, even among Christians. It does, indeed, dilute the principle of "one flesh" used by God to describe a true marriage. "What? Know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? For two, saith He, shall be one flesh . . . Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body: but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body" (I Corinthians 6:16, 18). This passage, incidentally, suggests that a woman who submits to extramarital sex becomes, in God's sight, a harlot, whether she yields her body for money or some other reason that she sees as profitable to herself.
On the other hand, it is noteworthy that Jesus, evidently on a different occasion, did not give fornication as an excuse for divorce. "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery" (Luke 16:18). If there is any doubt, this also applies to wives. "And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery" (Mark 10:12).
Since the lord would not contradict Himself, we should conclude that, while there may be some situations in which extramarital sex would create such problems in a marriage that divorce would be better than continuing in an unhealthy or even dangerous relationship, in general it would be better to forgive earlier indiscretions (if accompanied by repentance and present faithfulness) rather than to break up what might otherwise still be a good marriage.
In both cases, however, Christ warned that remarriage after divorce amounts to adultery, a sin which is explicitly forbidden by God's seventh Commandment. Both divorce and remarriage, therefore, are extremely serious steps, and both violate the divine principle of permanent union and faithfulness in marriage.
quote:
But suppose the unsaved spouse is the one who insists on a divorce. "If the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace" (I Corinthians 7:15).
This obviously means that the Christian husband or wife is then at liberty to remarry. In fact, if there are children involved, and if a caring Christian spouse can be found, it would be good to remarry, for children need the love and guidance of both a father and mother, provided, of course, that the stepmother or stepfather is "in the Lord" (I Corinthians 7:39) and desires to assume such a responsibility.
By extension, these principles could be applied to other situations that the Scriptures do not cover explicitly. As noted above, God is able and willing to forgive all sins, including even the sin of getting a divorce for trivial reasons. He has called us to peace, not legal bondage, and He can make a good marriage and a happy home no matter what the previous history of the people involved may have been, provided that true repentance, proper restitution, and genuine saving faith and sincere desire to serve the Lord now exist in their lives.
These are excerpts from the webpage that can be found here:
Link
This addresses what lastblast, northstar and alaska have been saying, and explains it in a clear manner.
I know how the LORD has spoken to me and my family, and how He is at work in my life. I can only live according to how He directs me. I will follow Him and not deviate from His call in my life.
I pray that you and others may never have to experience the pain of divorce and unfaithful spouses like neuronstatic, keabird and others like myself. We did not choose to be abandoned or divorced, but we know that God is at work at our lives and working still. He has not abandoned us, nor will He.
May God grant you peace and strong marriages all.
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"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 1/1/2006 1:05:01 AM
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