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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/1/2006 11:55:46 PM
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lastblast
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
The only other option attached to this principal is that God, not man, is the only one who can separate what He has joined together in a marriage, for the reason of unfaithfulness without the consequence of adultery.
Providing they remarry in the Lord, which Jesus has already explained and died for us.
Yes, the Lord speaks of when He separates: at death, even when there is adultery, adultery does not cause the Lord to separate what He has joined together (see Rom. 7:2-3).
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2006 3:04:17 AM
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blessednw
Posts: 724
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
There is nothing devious in my intentions, Neuron. I am breaking this down to the basics. When one does this, they will see how we (people) have been hypocritical in our applications of judgment of sin. Some sins we come to embrace, believing they somehow changed into something good, some we continue to hold are an abomination to the Lord.......yet, even in those cases, we are starting to see a change of judgment .
We have become quite tolerant of the believer divorcing, no matter what the reason. We have found ways to make it acceptable, often by blaming, and so we set a stage of justifying other sins as well.
quote:
I don't believe you are correct. I think any of us who dialogue on the MDR issue who hold the no remarriage position while a spouse is living, will not shy away from "digging in" so to speak. As a matter of fact, I believe that is most of our natures. We are "diggers"  That is how we came to this most uncomfortable belief concerning divorce/remarriage. I dare say, that NONE of us sought out to believe what we believe.........and there are some who are suffering greatly because they "see" the Word of God in the same way and have had to make huge life adjustments because of it.
Suffering......yes, even sharing in the sufferings of Christ
How?
Rejection......and the subequent dying to self that it takes to show kindness when reviled
Mocking.........especially from the family of belivers who have not had to walk the same road, and have no faith for family healing
Ridicule.........same as above
Blame............when there has been repenatance and a posturing for reconciliation, and those in the extended family must scapegoat in order to avoid responsibility
Slander.......like so much of what Jesus was accused of, basically, "you aren't who you say you are", a denial that God is at work in the person's life, doubt that God could change hearts (which is odd since it is His main business)
Gossip.....juicy details. everyone likes to discuss others' marriage problems. And everyone offers opinions, which many times may be the very opposite of what the wisdom of God's word would lead.
Digging, yes, looking for answers for marriage problems in the Word. Uncomfortable and unpopular belief, but at least comforting that God had good in mind, and that He can carry out His commitment to us in helping us commit to a standard for marriage from His own words.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2006 1:22:48 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessednw
Digging, yes, looking for answers for marriage problems in the Word. Uncomfortable and unpopular belief, but at least comforting that God had good in mind, and that He can carry out His commitment to us in helping us commit to a standard for marriage from His own words.
Amen, sister 
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2006 5:02:43 PM
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car2ner
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quote:
a denial that God is at work in the person's life, doubt that God could change hearts (which is odd since it is His main business)
This is a faulty arguement if you believe in free will. Yes He will change hearts if the holder of the heart does not fight the influence of the Holy Spirit. But if they never change? God will not force them to change for the patiently waiting but battered spouse. What then? No chance to redeem the lives of the shattered one? Redemption is part of His business as well.
And God knows what it will take to make the change in someone's life. Sometimes it is the honest loosing of everything they took for granted but discovered later was valuable. I have seen too often that seperated couples do not make a permanent change. In a short time they are right back to the same sins that were destroying their covenant before the seperation.
So it is a poor arguement against remarriage to say that when one does not wait until death, then it is their fault that the marriage cannot be restored. It may never have been restored even if they had waited. God will deal with both parts of the couple but He will not force them to love each other anymore than He will force us to love Him.
Can a badly battered marriage be restored. Yes. Does God guarantee it? No.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2006 5:10:45 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
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quote:
But if they never change? God will not force them to change for the patiently waiting but battered spouse. What then? No chance to redeem the lives of the shattered one? Redemption is part of His business as well.
Who are we to question God's timing? If things don't happen as quickly as we like, does the Lord give us the power to move ahead of Him? As to the life of the "shattered one", don't you believe the one who is walking in blindness, bondage, etc is "shattered" as well and in need of healing from the Lord?
quote:
God will deal with both parts of the couple but He will not force them to love each other anymore than He will force us to love Him.
God has commanded husbands to love their wives----commanded. If they do not do so, there will be repercussions, but the Lord never tells the husband that He will give the wife to another man. I can't find that anywhere in scripture. What I do find in scripture is that every man is to have HIS OWN wife, not some else's wife and vice versa.
Also, God COMMANDED a wife to honor her husband. The Lord did not put any conditions on this (ie; only if your husband is loving you like Christ loves the Church, THEN you honor him). Sometimes a wife will have to honor him from a distance while the Lord works on him, but again, the Lord doesn't anywhere that I can find, tell a wife to go find another husband.......or the husband another wife if his wife isn't honoring him properly.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2006 5:19:04 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2936
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quote:
Who are we to question God's timing? If things don't happen as quickly as we like, does the Lord give us the power to move ahead of Him? As to the life of the "shattered one", don't you believe the one who is walking in blindness, bondage, etc is "shattered" as well and in need of healing from the Lord?
ok, first of all, let me say that I have posted in the wrong thread. This is the divorce thread, not the MDR thread. Sorry Fritz, I lost track.
As far as running ahead of God, I will say again, the most important thing to do is to pray for wisdom from God. The one walking in blindness is shattered. But I don't think for one instant that if God, who knows the future, would ask someone to stand patiently waiting for the other to change when God knows that there will be no lasting change. Some people are like that.
But we don't know the future. We should never run ahead of God. We should be very very sure of what His direction is. Yes, sometimes God says "enough is enough" in more situations than just marriage. If you do a search, I have listed examples of it before.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/2/2006 11:56:28 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
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quote:
But I don't think for one instant that if God, who knows the future, would ask someone to stand patiently waiting for the other to change when God knows that there will be no lasting change.
That might sound right to human reasoning,
but where do you find that teaching in scripture, car2ner?
quote:
But we don't know the future. We should never run ahead of God. We should be very very sure of what His direction is. Yes, sometimes God says "enough is enough" in more situations than just marriage.
Again, could you please provide scripture for this viewpoint concerning a husband or wife?
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2006 9:15:08 AM
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dreamsofstardust_75
Posts: 8
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quote:
God has commanded husbands to love their wives----commanded. If they do not do so, there will be repercussions, but the Lord never tells the husband that He will give the wife to another man.
quote:
But I don't think for one instant that if God, who knows the future, would ask someone to stand patiently waiting for the other to change when God knows that there will be no lasting change.
That might sound right to human reasoning,
but where do you find that teaching in scripture, car2ner?
quote:
But we don't know the future. We should never run ahead of God. We should be very very sure of what His direction is. Yes, sometimes God says "enough is enough" in more situations than just marriage.
Again, could you please provide scripture for this viewpoint concerning a husband or wife? "
This scripture comes to mind:
1 Corinthians 7:
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
Hosea
13 They offer sacrifices on the mountaintops,
And burn incense on the hills,
Under oaks, poplars, and terebinths,
Because their shade is good.
Therefore your daughters commit harlotry,
And your brides commit adultery.
14 “ I will not punish your daughters when they commit harlotry,
Nor your brides when they commit adultery;
For the men themselves go apart with harlots,
And offer sacrifices with a ritual harlot.[a]
Therefore people who do not understand will be trampled.
11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD.
I am weary of holding it in.
“ I will pour it out on the children outside,
And on the assembly of young men together;
For even the husband shall be taken with the wife,
The aged with him who is full of days.
12 And their houses shall be turned over to others,
Fields and wives together;
For I will stretch out My hand
Against the inhabitants of the land,” says the LORD.
13 “ Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them,
Everyone is given to covetousness;
And from the prophet even to the priest,
Everyone deals falsely.
Jeremiah 8:9-11
9 The wise men are ashamed,
They are dismayed and taken.
Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD;
So what wisdom do they have?
10 Therefore I will give their wives to others,
And their fields to those who will inherit them;
Because from the least even to the greatest
Everyone is given to covetousness;
From the prophet even to the priest
Everyone deals falsely. 11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly,
Saying, ‘Peace, peace!’
When there is no peace
Just a thought....could this be the judgement for those spouses who have continually abused and, defiled and were unfaithful to their mates? I will say this God does know the future. God told Hosea to stand through all of that. But, he also shows that sometimes, His judgement is to give their possesions over to others. God knows the heart. and maybe some need to lose it all before they will turn to Him. Maybe some will never truly repent, because they know they won't lose the comfort that a faithful spouse brings. Maybe God will let that unrepentant person suffer the consequence of never getting that spouse back, because that is the only consequence that will cause them to humbly acknowledge their sin. For others called to stand through all of it....maybe those will be softened through HS working through that mate. We are not to judge, only God knows what He is doing. Scripture shows all the possibilties I just mentioned. It is individual.
_____________________________
“Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2006 11:17:23 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
This scripture comes to mind:
1 Corinthians 7:
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
This scripture just says to let one leave. It does not open the door to "move on" with another in life.
quote:
Hosea
13 They offer sacrifices on the mountaintops,
And burn incense on the hills,
Under oaks, poplars, and terebinths,
Because their shade is good.
Therefore your daughters commit harlotry,
And your brides commit adultery.
14 “ I will not punish your daughters when they commit harlotry,
Nor your brides when they commit adultery;
For the men themselves go apart with harlots,
And offer sacrifices with a ritual harlot.[a]
Therefore people who do not understand will be trampled.
11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD.
I am weary of holding it in.
“ I will pour it out on the children outside,
And on the assembly of young men together;
For even the husband shall be taken with the wife,
The aged with him who is full of days.
12 And their houses shall be turned over to others,
Fields and wives together;
For I will stretch out My hand
Against the inhabitants of the land,” says the LORD.
13 “ Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them,
Everyone is given to covetousness;
And from the prophet even to the priest,
Everyone deals falsely.
Jeremiah 8:9-11
9 The wise men are ashamed,
They are dismayed and taken.
Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD;
So what wisdom do they have?
10 Therefore I will give their wives to others,
And their fields to those who will inherit them;
Because from the least even to the greatest
Everyone is given to covetousness; From the prophet even to the priest
Everyone deals falsely. 11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly,
Saying, ‘Peace, peace!’
When there is no peace
Just a thought....could this be the judgement for those spouses who have continually abused and, defiled and were unfaithful to their mates? I will say this God does know the future. God told Hosea to stand through all of that. But, he also shows that sometimes, His judgement is to give their possesions over to others. God knows the heart. and maybe some need to lose it all before they will turn to Him. Maybe some will never truly repent, because they know they won't lose the comfort that a faithful spouse brings. Maybe God will let that unrepentant person suffer the consequence of never getting that spouse back, because that is the only consequence that will cause them to humbly acknowledge their sin. For others called to stand through all of it....maybe those will be softened through HS working through that mate. We are not to judge, only God knows what He is doing. Scripture shows all the possibilties I just mentioned. It is individual.
Why does God give the wives to those of another??? Because they have forsaken the Word of the Lord. It is His judgment, but...........we also know that it is the result of sin. God gives them(homosexuals)over to vile affections---yet we know that His stamp of approval is not on their "unions". So it is the same with those who
join themselves to others when they are BOUND in marriage----until death---GOD has said in the NT that it is adultery. We also know that if a husband is responsible for his wife joining herself to another man, thereby committing adultery, the sin will also rest on the husband and vice versa. So, we can't get around what is spoken in the NT with OT passages on judgment. We know that many times God's judgment IS to allow sin to run it's course----in hopes that the affected will turn to Him eventually.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2006 6:47:26 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2936
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Dreams, thank you. I think that those are clear examples.
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"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2006 9:12:30 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2456
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
The only other option attached to this principal is that God, not man, is the only one who can separate what He has joined together in a marriage, for the reason of unfaithfulness without the consequence of adultery.
Providing they remarry in the Lord, which Jesus has already explained and died for us.
Yes, the Lord speaks of when He separates: at death, even when there is adultery, adultery does not cause the Lord to separate what He has joined together (see Rom. 7:2-3).
Greetings,
quote:
Yes, the Lord speaks of when He separates: at death,
Exactly, death breaks all covenants, and in this light…what is death?
Is marriage a Spiritual application or a carnal application in the flesh, or both?
I mean when Adam died was it Spiritual death or physical or both?
I for one do not believe our Father is in the business of killing our spouses to separate us from a dead marriage, when it comes to what God has joined together.
Other than the surreal fact that God did not join it together.
Where is it all of sudden written in the scripture saying, He is obligated to finish what He did not start?
The Bible says God is the same and never changes, why would He then change when it comes to a dead marriage?
He did not change being in covenant with Saul, Saul died to the witch of Endor,
God was the same when he destroyed Sodom,
But I suppose it is not the same death when He is finished with an unfaithful spouse?
That for some reason He is going to change his tune, as if He has no limits?
When it gets to the point where God says no, there is no amount of prayer that is going to change it, there is no amount of time one can wait that is going change His mind.
quote:
adultery does not cause the Lord to separate what He has joined together
Adultery is just a symptom that He did not join it together, for if He did there would be no adultery, Adultery is just a slight suggestion that one should get out of Sodom, if they do not repent.
Its like Lot, He was in “covenant” with Sodom, he earned and shared his living from doing business with them in their land.
Let’s say Lot is the believer and Sodom is not,
In like manner it is like a marriage, not ordained by God, when the time came Lot was remembered and removed, and Sodom was destroyed, therefore the covenant was broken by death.
God will not destroy the believer with the unbeliever therefore He separated Lot from Sodom and then destroyed Sodom.
For some reason I can not figure out why the believing spouse likes to stick around for the show when God gives every sign permissible before hand, to get one to leave.
Hypothetically; when a dog bites a human, the dog is put down, because it has acquired a taste, and will do it again.
No matter what one does it can no longer be trusted.
And when it gets to that point, So are those who are dead to God.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2006 8:36:48 AM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Exactly, death breaks all covenants, and in this light…what is death?
Is marriage a Spiritual application or a carnal application in the flesh, or both?
I mean when Adam died was it Spiritual death or physical or both?
The Bible says God is the same and never changes, why would He then change when it comes to a dead marriage?
But I suppose it is not the same death when He is finished with an unfaithful spouse?
When it gets to the point where God says no, there is no amount of prayer that is going to change it, there is no amount of time one can wait that is going change His mind.
Hypothetically; when a dog bites a human, the dog is put down, because it has acquired a taste, and will do it again.
No matter what one does it can no longer be trusted.
And when it gets to that point, So are those who are dead to God.
I prefer to stick to the real context of God's Word, LG. God uses death in neither a "symbolic nor spiritual" way when speaking of the death of a SPOUSE, not the death of a marriage. Many want to spiritualize God's Word so they can do all sorts of things that do not align with the written as well as the SPIRIT of His Word.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2006 1:28:19 PM
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ThePromisedLand
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Vows
I was thinking about vows today. I asked myself, 'can a person or should a person vow unconditionally?' I know in these postings divorce is seen as a breaking of the marital vows. I'm wondering if maybe the vows we take are really unwise because we set ourselves up.
Ecclesiastes 5:2, 4-6
Be not rash with your mouth and let now your heart be hasty to utter a word before God. For God is in heaven, and you are on earth; therefore let your words be few. When you vow a vow or make a pledge to God, do not put off paying it; for God has no pleasure in fools. Pay what you vow. It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. Do not allow your mouth tho cause your body to sin, and do not say before the messenger that it was an error or mistake. Why should God be made angry at your voice and destroy the work of your hands?
With balance in view - Proverbs 6:1-3
My son, if you have become security for your neighbor, if you have given your pledge for s atranger or another, you are snared with the words of yourlips, you are caught by the speech of yourmouth. Do this now, my son, and deliver yourself when you have put yourself into the power of your neighbor; go, bestir and humble yourself and beg your neighbor...
The point I'm getting at is maybe there is a problem with the vows we make. Are they really realistic? When we promise to be available to our spouses, while it is unwritten and unspoken, we don't expect them to become adulterous. When we promise to obey (if we still do that), it is understood that the condition is as long as it's not sin nor violates the conscious (sometimes two different things). When we promise never to separate, isn't it understood that we won't as long as certain sins are not committed?
In thinking about MDR, I have begun to look very seriously at the words/promises made. Can I truly fulfill them? I fully believe when these traditional vows were penned, the depravity that a spouse can be faced with within marriage was not in view. That doesn't mean difficulties were not considered but I'm talking about serious offenses that threaten health, etc. This is why I don't believe in unconditional vows nor do I believe God makes unconditional vows. He is more straightforward than we though. He deceives no one. You know just what you will get when you obey and when you disobey.
IMO, divorce is the same thing. Many of us, didn't say these things because on that day, you are only focusing on marital bliss but perhaps if pressed, we would have included our own clauses in the same way God did (this is along the same lines as practicing tough love) - things which we could tolerate and those we could not. Perhaps this would have stopped many of us from even getting married to these particular people and going through the drama.
While I realize this discussion is very important, I can't get away from Jesus' response when faced with this same issue. He pointed us to what marriage was like and what it was meant to be from the beginning. One thing I really want to see is the helping of one another mature in this area, so we can make better choices based on reality and be honest with ourselves and our prospective mates. Maybe then the divorce rate would go down because we would have changed our approach.
Just my thoughts...
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2006 3:23:23 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2456
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ThePromisedLand
Vows
I was thinking about vows today. I asked myself, 'can a person or should a person vow unconditionally?' I know in these postings divorce is seen as a breaking of the marital vows. I'm wondering if maybe the vows we take are really unwise because we set ourselves up.
Ecclesiastes 5:2, 4-6
Be not rash with your mouth and let now your heart be hasty to utter a word before God. For God is in heaven, and you are on earth; therefore let your words be few. When you vow a vow or make a pledge to God, do not put off paying it; for God has no pleasure in fools. Pay what you vow. It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. Do not allow your mouth tho cause your body to sin, and do not say before the messenger that it was an error or mistake. Why should God be made angry at your voice and destroy the work of your hands?
With balance in view - Proverbs 6:1-3
My son, if you have become security for your neighbor, if you have given your pledge for s atranger or another, you are snared with the words of yourlips, you are caught by the speech of yourmouth. Do this now, my son, and deliver yourself when you have put yourself into the power of your neighbor; go, bestir and humble yourself and beg your neighbor...
The point I'm getting at is maybe there is a problem with the vows we make. Are they really realistic? When we promise to be available to our spouses, while it is unwritten and unspoken, we don't expect them to become adulterous. When we promise to obey (if we still do that), it is understood that the condition is as long as it's not sin nor violates the conscious (sometimes two different things). When we promise never to separate, isn't it understood that we won't as long as certain sins are not committed?
In thinking about MDR, I have begun to look very seriously at the words/promises made. Can I truly fulfill them? I fully believe when these traditional vows were penned, the depravity that a spouse can be faced with within marriage was not in view. That doesn't mean difficulties were not considered but I'm talking about serious offenses that threaten health, etc. This is why I don't believe in unconditional vows nor do I believe God makes unconditional vows. He is more straightforward than we though. He deceives no one. You know just what you will get when you obey and when you disobey.
IMO, divorce is the same thing. Many of us, didn't say these things because on that day, you are only focusing on marital bliss but perhaps if pressed, we would have included our own clauses in the same way God did (this is along the same lines as practicing tough love) - things which we could tolerate and those we could not. Perhaps this would have stopped many of us from even getting married to these particular people and going through the drama.
While I realize this discussion is very important, I can't get away from Jesus' response when faced with this same issue. He pointed us to what marriage was like and what it was meant to be from the beginning. One thing I really want to see is the helping of one another mature in this area, so we can make better choices based on reality and be honest with ourselves and our prospective mates. Maybe then the divorce rate would go down because we would have changed our approach.
Just my thoughts...
Greetings,
quote:
He pointed us to what marriage was like and what it was meant to be from the beginning. One thing I really want to see is the helping of one another mature in this area, so we can make better choices based on reality and be honest with ourselves and our prospective mates.
Good points and I believe Jesus was speaking somewhat along these lines when the disciples said to him “it is better not to marry” and Paul stating God has called us to peace.
Even though the sin is forgiven it all depends if one can put up with the consequences that befall a relationship stemming from adultery “if” such should arise.
In answer to the disciple’s question, I believe Jesus did answer this in Matt 19
12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it."
Not all eunuchs were eunuchs by choice, or were chosen to be
For some reason I believe the word eunuch can be transposed to agree with;
"All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given:
Transposition:
12 For there are those to whom it has been given who were born thus from their mother's womb to be married, and there are those to whom were made to accept this saying and married by men, and there are those to whom it has been given and have made themselves accept this saying and married for the kingdom of heaven's sake.
But here is the clincher…
He who is able to accept it, let him accept it."
Notice the use of the word “able to”
I believe Jesus was answering His disciple’s in terms of never getting married, as Even though the sin is forgiven it all depends if one is able to accept it and can put up with the consequences that could befall a relationship stemming from adultery “if” such consequences should arise.
We are forgiven of our sins but the curse still has a lingering affect, even on beleivers.
He who is able to accept it, let him accept it."
Kind works both ways?
Loyal Gypsy
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/5/2006 5:40:22 PM
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QueenM
Posts: 382
Joined: 4/13/2005
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Loyal Gypsy
quote:
Adultery is just a symptom that He did not join it together, for if He did there would be no adultery,
I have to disagree here. Yes there are marriages that God "joined", but that still does not mean that those marriages will not go through some of the same problems that other marriages do, including adultery. We are to be vigilant because we have an enemy that does not rest in his seeking to destroy us. Get complacent, face temptations.......devoid of the armor of God temptations lead to thoughts which lead to actions, whether your marriage is God "approved" or not. Even as christians we still sin, being called is only the beginning......you gotta work..ie...study the Word, meditate on it, pray, and worship the Lord and live according to His Word.
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2006 5:49:16 PM
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lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
He who is able to accept it, let him accept it."
Notice the use of the word “able to”
I believe Jesus was answering His disciple’s in terms of never getting married, as Even though the sin is forgiven it all depends if one is able to accept it and can put up with the consequences that could befall a relationship stemming from adultery “if” such consequences should arise.
We are forgiven of our sins but the curse still has a lingering affect, even on beleivers.
He who is able to accept it, let him accept it."
Kind works both ways?Loyal Gypsy
Jesus did not mean it ok to disobey Him........I believe He was speaking about those who would accept His saying. Those who follow Him will, those who do not follow Him, will not accept it. I think that is clearly seen today in those who will not accept His sayings on divorce and why many will excuse it for ANY and all reasons, spiritualizing everything Jesus said.............though I do agree that everything we do/say DOES have implications in the Spirit realm.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/7/2006 4:23:10 PM
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keeperofmysoul
Posts: 31
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hi
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/7/2006 4:52:50 PM
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keeperofmysoul
Posts: 31
Joined: 7/21/2006
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Hi all. I have been following this thread.
Did anyone stop to consider this?
There are actual places in the word that specifically say that a person is not able to divorce for specific reasons, besides adultery. It is fornication.
"Matthew 5:32"
Jesus said....
"But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of FORNICATION, CAUSETH HER to commit ADULTERY: AND whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
"Matthew 19:9"
Jesus said.....
"And I say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for FORNICATION, AND SHALL MARRY ANOTHER, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
In these two scriptures, if you study Jewish History, Jesus was referring the the fact that Jewish women were required to keep themselves for the spouse they were proposed to. If the woman was found to have committed adultery prior to the marriage, the man had reason enough to put her away for her unfaithfulness.
"Deuteronomy 22: 28, 29"
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."
This scripture is a law given by moses, just like the other laws that relate to marriage and murders, etc. This is one of the laws that was actually given by God to moses. So....
Did anyone ever stop to consider the act of sleeping with your wife before you married her that you are by the laws given to moses unable to put her away all of your days?
That is what Deuteronomy is stating.
So for all of you who are posting on this thread who committed fornication prior to marrying your spouse, by the laws of moses and of Jesus you are not free to divorce your spouse in the first place never mind to marry again. Jesus specifically states that if you divorce for any other reason other than fornication (which refers to a person giving themselves to other than who she was espoused to prior to her marriage) or adultery then you by Jesus words will be living in adultery for the rest of your life, why? because according to the law that was given in that day, you cannot put away your wife because you have defiled her prior to marriage. So, for all who are divorcing a spouse and planning to marry another or someone else, please take a good look at this scripture which is written in plain black and white. It can't be any more clear. The thing about it is, does anyone love God enough to do the right thing?
We take the marrital bed so lightly. But Jesus was very clear on this matter. Marriage was looked at so seriously in the eyes of God and still is, so much that even the act of lying with your wife prior to marrying her binds you to her for life.
Mind you, we no longer pay dowrys any more, but fornication is fornication is fornication is fornication. And if anyone here that is posting finds themselves in this position, please understand that it is unlawful in the eyes of God to divorce your spouse and marry someone else according to the law. I noticed that there are a few posters that seem to be stuck on the laws of moses, that is why I bring this up. If you intend to follow the law, you ought to follow the whole, law, not just pick and choose which of the laws you wish to follow. Remember, you say with your own words, that Jesus came to fulfill the law and he has not changed them. I wonder how many of you can live up to this particular portion of the law?????
God is a restorer of marriages and he honors the sanctity of it. There are so many people who have spouses that desire reconcilliation and their spouses because of believing that they can choose to do whatsoever they desire to do are denying them this option. These scriptures clear up at least one of the problems where that is concerned.
For those who are posting that the laws of God stand firm from in the days of Moses, if you or you know anyone in this position, you cannot live or talk about only a portion of the law and deny the rest of it. This is the law, those who choose to live by the law, ought really to follow the whole law. Are we able to or do we pick and choose and try to fit God into our own feelings and our own desires.
God honors the sanctity of marriage and honors reconcilliation as well.
Thanks for listening all.
God bless you
I hope that the full law can be followed and not just a portion of it.
Keeperofmysoul
< Message edited by keeperofmysoul -- 10/7/2006 11:30:46 PM >
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/7/2006 6:26:24 PM
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cadz
Posts: 144
Joined: 9/18/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keeperofmysoul
Hi all. I have been following this thread.
Did anyone stop to consider this?
There are actual places in the word that specifically say that a person is not able to divorce for specific reasons, besides adultery. It is fornication.
"Matthew 5:32"
Jesus said....
"But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of FORNICATION, CAUSETH HER to commit ADULTERY: AND whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
"Matthew 19:9"
Jesus said.....
"And I say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for FORNICATION, AND SHALL MARRY ANOTHER, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
"Deuteronomy 22: 28, 29"
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."
Did anyone ever stop to consider the act of sleeping with your wife before you married her that you are by the laws given to moses unable to put her away all of your days.
So for all of you who are posting on this thread who committed fornication prior to marrying your spouse, by the laws of moses and of Jesus you are not free to marry again. You are not even free to divorce. and also, for all who are divorcing a spouse and planning to marry another or someone else, please consider the error of your ways. It can't be more clear than this. The thing about it is, does anyone love God enough to do the right thing?
We take the marrital bed so lightly. But Jesus was very clear on this matter. Marriage was looked at so seriously in the eyes of God and still is, so much that even the act of lying with your wife prior to marrying her binds you to her for life.
Mind you, we no longer pay dowrys any more, but fornication is fornication is fornication is fornication. And if anyone here that is posting finds themselves in this position, please understand that it is unlawful in the eyes of God to divorce your spouse and marry someone else.
God is a restorer of marriages and he honors the sanctity of it. There are so many people who have spouses that desire reconcilliation and their spouses because of believing that they can choose to do whatsoever they desire to do are denying them this option. These scriptures clear up at least one of the problems where that is concerned.
For those who are posting using the law, if you or you know anyone in this position, you cannot live or talk about only a portion of the law and deny the rest of it. This is fact and was confirmed and not changed by Jesus.
Thanks for listening all.
God bless you
I hope that the full law can be followed and not just a portion of it.
Keeperofmysoul
Are you saying that sex joins one in marriage?
_____________________________
Cheryl
Why I repented of an adulterous remarriage &
cadz FAQ about Divorce & Remarriage
http://www.cadz.net/mdr.html
Visit my audio website http://www.cadz.net to listen to broadcasts on Marriage & Divorce
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RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 10/7/2006 8:37:17 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2456
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keeperofmysoul
Hi all. I have been following this thread.
Did anyone stop to consider this?
There are actual places in the word that specifically say that a person is not able to divorce for specific reasons, besides adultery. It is fornication.
"Matthew 5:32"
Jesus said....
"But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of FORNICATION, CAUSETH HER to commit ADULTERY: AND whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
"Matthew 19:9"
Jesus said.....
"And I say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for FORNICATION, AND SHALL MARRY ANOTHER, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
"Deuteronomy 22: 28, 29"
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."
Did anyone ever stop to consider the act of sleeping with your wife before you married her that you are by the laws given to moses unable to put her away all of your days.
So for all of you who are posting on this thread who committed fornication prior to marrying your spouse, by the laws of moses and of Jesus you are not free to marry again. You are not even free to divorce. and also, for all who are divorcing a spouse and planning to marry another or someone else, please consider the error of your ways. It can't be more clear than this. The thing about it is, does anyone love God enough to do the right thing?
We take the marrital bed so lightly. But Jesus was very clear on this matter. Marriage was looked at so seriously in the eyes of God and still is, so much that even the act of lying with your wife prior to marrying her binds you to her for life.
Mind you, we no longer pay dowrys any more, but fornication is fornication is fornication is fornication. And if anyone here that is posting finds themselves in this position, please understand that it is unlawful in the eyes of God to divorce your spouse and marry someone else.
God is a restorer of marriages and he honors the sanctity of it. There are so many people who have spouses that desire reconciliation and their spouses because of believing that they can choose to do whatsoever they desire to do are denying them this option. These scriptures clear up at least one of the problems where that is concerned.
For those who are posting using the law, if you or you know anyone in this position, you cannot live or talk about only a portion of the law and deny the rest of it. This is fact and was confirmed and not changed by Jesus.
Thanks for listening all.
God bless you
I hope that the full law can be followed and not just a portion of it.
Keeperofmysoul
Greetings,
quote:
Mind you, we no longer pay dowrys any more, but fornication is fornication is fornication is fornication. And if anyone here that is posting finds themselves in this position, please understand that it is unlawful in the eyes of God to divorce your spouse and marry someone else.
It is interesting when Jesus said, “in the beginning it was not so” and went to include the exception rule for divorce, but where is this mentioned in the beginning?
Perhaps you mean it is unlawful to marry someone else, a divorce is lawful as Jesus stated under sexual immorality.
Jesus was reiterating the letter of Gods Law away from that decree as given by the man Moses
So the exception rule has to be seen somewhere pre -Exodus to be termed “in the beginning | | |
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That assumes all people that leave are selfish! They are self absorbed and lets heap a bit more guilt on their plate and see if that will move them! 
Some people are just not capable of handling anymore. You have others that are better that realm. God knows the difference, and he accepts and loves both! 
