|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2007 11:54:14 AM
|
|
|
Teaching_The_Way
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/18/2006
From: Teaching The Way Ministries
Status: offline
|
Friend the Bible refers to people who want to divorce is to write them a certificate of divorce.
Matthew 5:31-32
"Furthermore it has been said,'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
NKJV
As it is written: Deuteronomy 24:1-4
"When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some uncleanness in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house, 2 when she has departed from his house, and goes and becomes another man's wife, 3 if the latter husband detests her and writes her a certificate of divorce, puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her as his wife, 4 then her former husband who divorced her must not take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.
NKJV
Isaiah 50:1 Thus says the LORD: "Where is the certificate of your mother's divorce,
NKJV
I hope this answers your question friend God Bless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hischild1994
When is a divorce actually considered a divorce?
Is it when one spouse moves out or is it when the final papers are signed?
I think legally it's when the papers are signed.
What about Biblically?
Also, who is actually doing the divorcing- the person who moves out or the person who does the paperwork?
_____________________________
http://teachingtheway.net/
If our opinions does not line up with
the scriptures, then our opinions are
dead wrong! Gods words are more important
than our opinions!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/2/2007 11:56:54 AM
|
|
|
ThePromisedLand
Posts: 450
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline
|
Greetings Teaching the Way,
I first want to say that I am very glad the Lord has blessed you with a believing wife. That is wonderful.
Now for the hard stuff. You said,
quote:
They seem to forget the vows they made to God, to be spouse, and to the people in the church that they will be together for better or for worse. And many Christians do not go by what scripture say about divorce and marriage. So if anyone divorces for reasons other than Adultery, or a Non-believer leaving, then they have lied to God and to their spouse. They have broken a vow (promise) to God. Aren't you glad that God does not break his promises?
I don't think you realize that there are Christians out there who believe that this statement is true of YOU!
Let me share a few quotes:
quote:
Jesus and Paul both taught that to remarry while one has a living covenant spouse, is to enter into adultery. It remains adultery until the lawful spouse dies(Mal. 2:17, Mt. 5:32, 19:3-9, Mk. 10, Lk. 16:16-18, Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:10-12, I Cor. 7:39). In other words, remaining in a second marriage is living in a state of adultery----because one or both belong to another person, joined by God as One.
quote:
The notion that the Christian spouse is not under bondage would also indicate that they are not obligated to bestow on the unfaithful spouse the blessings of marriage. Those blessings may be withheld, but they are to remain single or reconcile, just as God has shown us with His own marriage to Israel. If the wayward spouse never repents and reconciles, guess what, the will pay an eternal price.
quote:
The law of marriage was from the beginning as Jesus said, and the so-called "exception" was no exception at all for those who were fully married, but the Jews, much like the professing Christians today, perverted this law to justify their adultery.
quote:
Never in Paul's whole discourse on marriage do we see him indicating that divorce dissolves a lawful marriage, that desertion dissolves a lawful marriage, or that another marriage contracted while one already has a living spouse dissolves a lawful marriage. So now we have multitudes resting in the hopes that they are rightly interpreting Mt. 19:9... there are a whole lot of people living in a state of adultery----most of them completely ignorant to what the Lord has said on the matter.
I write this as a caution really. Be careful how you judge those who are divorced for reasons other than you (abuse, adulteries, child molestation, etc.). All of the charges (lying to God, forgetting their vows, breaking their vow to God, not obeying scripture) that you level against those who find themselves in this situation are being leveled against you! Not only that, according to them, you will not inherit the kingdom because you both are adulterers. That's tough!
Personally, I think it's very unloving to have someone accuse you of these things and tell you that you both will go to hell if you don't repent and divorce, when your divorce is the result of your spouses sin. In the same way, it is right for you to declare as guilty those who are also divorcees, like you, who also are divorced as a result of their spouses sins, although different but just as serious as yours? Believe me, some folk are not going to let you off the hook just because you didn't go to the courthouse yourself.
< Message edited by ThePromisedLand -- 2/2/2007 12:03:07 PM >
_____________________________
By Your Holy Spirit Lord Set the Captives Free!
To be considered when dealing with Divorce and Remarriage
http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Brewer/PPages/121/Index.htm
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/2/2007 6:55:54 PM
|
|
|
Coca-Cola
Posts: 46
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThePromisedLand
Be careful how you judge those who are divorced for reasons other than you (abuse, adulteries, child molestation, etc.). All of the charges (lying to God, forgetting their vows, breaking their vow to God, not obeying scripture) that you level against those who find themselves in this situation are being leveled against you! Not only that, according to them, you will not inherit the kingdom because you both are adulterers. That's tough!
Personally, I think it's very unloving to have someone accuse you of these things and tell you that you both will go to hell if you don't repent and divorce, when your divorce is the result of your spouses sin. In the same way, it is right for you to declare as guilty those who are also divorcees, like you, who also are divorced as a result of their spouses sins, although different but just as serious as yours? Believe me, some folk are not going to let you off the hook just because you didn't go to the courthouse yourself.
Thepromisedland.
I am jumping in the middle of this discussion here so forgive me if I get this all wrong. However it sounds to me like you are suggesting that teachingtheway is wrong for being dogmatic about what he believes.
I am not sure what he has all said, so I won't defend the content of what he said. However if someone is convinced that the Scriptures declare certain truths it is their duty to believe, affirm and teach those truths with all of their mite and all the gusto they can muster up. It should always be done in love and kindness, but telling someone they are wrong is not necassarily wrong or unloving.
I believe that the Bible teaches the following...
1) The Lord allows for divorce if sexual sin has occured in the marriage. Not that divorce is mandatory, but it is clearly allowed. It is also egually clear that to divorce your spouse for any reason except for sexual sin is wrong and results in adultery. (Matt. 19:9)
2) That the Apostle Paul adds to this topic that if someones spouse dies they are free to remarry (Rom. 7: 1-3)
3) That the Apostle Paul again adds more inspired teaching on the issue and tells us that if an unbelieving spouse abandons the marriage the innocent spouse is free to allow them to go and free to remarry (1 Cor. 7:15)
These and only these are the divinely allowed reasons and teaching for divorce and remarriage. Adding or deleting to these is nothing more than men adding or deleting to God's word.
You mention someone divorcing for abuse and that we should not judge them for doing that. If by standing on what the word of God says and using that as my authority for what I believe is right and wrong is considered by some as "judging" ... well don't take it up with me ... take it up with God as I am simply re-iterating what His word says.
I am not without sympathy for those who have hard marriages and go through divorces. My ex-wife left me and hooked up with another man. She had no Biblical reason and I did not want the divorce, but it was out of my hands. So I know first hand the pain that happens when divorce happens.
If there is pshyiscal abuse or bad emotional abuse ... an option is to perhaps seperate and work on the marriage from a distance to reconcile, however there is no Biblical grounds for a divorce other than what Scripture allows and teaches.
Gordon (Coca-Cola)
_____________________________
"As a Christian you are responsible to believe, teach and afirm what the Bible actually says, not what you want the Bible to say" RC Sproul
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/2/2007 8:16:33 PM
|
|
|
ThePromisedLand
Posts: 450
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline
|
Greetings Coca Cola,
I have no problem with someone stating their convictions on something. The reason for my response was to point out that we all have convictions by which we judge others. It's more than trying to point out what Scripture teaches. It's when I make the fact that I didn't leave my abusive situation so why don't others Christians hang in there until the spouse leaves, that I take issue with. That was how it came across to me, so I responded. I wanted the OP to understand that the measure he was using was being measured to him whether he was aware of that or not. I wanted to call attention to how he would feel about the judgments that were being leveled against him.
In regards to grounds for divorce. You stated what you believe are the only God given grounds for divorce and you stated them in a very confident way as if you were speaking the very words of God. At the same time, there are others who will tell you, in the same way, that what your saying is a lie and you are leading others astray, by condoning divorce and adultery. They believe that they, like you, are speaking the "Truth" on the matter and are speaking in God's stead. Then you said,
quote:
You mention someone divorcing for abuse and that we should not judge them for doing that. If by standing on what the word of God says and using that as my authority for what I believe is right and wrong is considered by some as "judging" ... well don't take it up with me ... take it up with God as I am simply re-iterating what His word says.
I'm sorry but statements like these really grate against my skin. Simply because they seem to imply that there's no way your interpretation could possibly be wrong. If someone has a problem with what your saying, then they have a problem with God and it just couldn't be that they have a problem with how you have interpreted the scriptures.
The next thing that's usually said is that the Word is so clear. According to the other side of the debate your clearly not free to marry again and you are not divorced and if you were to marry, you would be committing adultery and so would your new wife. You don't believe that. You believe your divorce is valid, although unwanted, based on Scripture and that to marry again would not be a sin at all. So my thing is how would you feel having someone tell you these things when your divorce wasn't your doing? Wouldn't you feel like you are being blamed for something that's not your fault? Wouldn't you feel like you were being punished as a result of your spouses sin? Can you imagine how it feels to be told that your not going to heaven because your an adulterer according to their interpretation of scripture. You say to them well your clearly wrong but they don't think so. I could tell you I believe your mistaken and you wouldn't think so.
This is what the abuse victim goes through when dealing with the church. She's the one who had the knife at her throat and when she turns to the church, she encounters the same "biblical" condemnation. Some who feel their divorce has God's approval according to Scripture then turn and condemn those whose divorces were on account of something, that was just a serious and adulterous (violence for example). I may not have a scripture that explicitly says that abuse is grounds for divorce but I wholeheartedly believe in the spirit behind the laws regarding divorce, why it was permitted. If the man or woman who brutalizes their spouse is not an "unbeliever" based on actions and those crimes are not a type of abandonment, then I am truly at a lost here...
_____________________________
By Your Holy Spirit Lord Set the Captives Free!
To be considered when dealing with Divorce and Remarriage
http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Brewer/PPages/121/Index.htm
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/3/2007 1:22:00 AM
|
|
|
Coca-Cola
Posts: 46
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline
|
Promisedland, You said ...
quote:
In regards to grounds for divorce. You stated what you believe are the only God given grounds for divorce and you stated them in a very confident way as if you were speaking the very words of God. At the same time, there are others who will tell you, in the same way, that what your saying is a lie and you are leading others astray, by condoning divorce and adultery. They believe that they, like you, are speaking the "Truth" on the matter and are speaking in God's stead. Then you said
And ...
quote:
I'm sorry but statements like these really grate against my skin. Simply because they seem to imply that there's no way your interpretation could possibly be wrong. If someone has a problem with what your saying, then they have a problem with God and it just couldn't be that they have a problem with how you have interpreted the scriptures.
Unlike you I don't begruge anyone their right to believe that their view is right and mine is wrong. However they both cannot be right! Either my view is right and theirs is wrong ... or thiers is right and mine is wrong!
I must be absolutely convinced that what I believe is the truth or why would I believe in it? And if I believe it is the truth of God why would I half heartedly affirm it? Rather I will put all my faith and trust in it and announce what I believe at the top of my lungs to the entire world. Of course I believe that what I am saying is nothing more than me
"re-itering" what God has said ... Could I be wrong? As much as anyone else could be I guess .... however I don't believe I am so why would I not claim it to be the only truth?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
You continue to say ...
quote:
The next thing that's usually said is that the Word is so clear. According to the other side of the debate your clearly not free to marry again and you are not divorced and if you were to marry, you would be committing adultery and so would your new wife.
It is clear ... however I am very aware that some people claim something very different to be the truth. It must bother you to have people say "you are wrong" ... It does not bother me! ... I know what I believe and why I believe it to be true .... there will always be people who interpret issues differntly and in my view "wrongly" and who disagree with me ... that is okay ... they have that right. But again only one view can be right ... I believe it is my view ... why else would I believe it?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You asked ...
quote:
So my thing is how would you feel having someone tell you these things when your divorce wasn't your doing?
I feel badly that they don't see the truth, do I take it personally? No! not at all .... the only person I care about getting it right before is God and not any man.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You stated ...
quote:
Can you imagine how it feels to be told that your not going to heaven because your an adulterer according to their interpretation of scripture. You say to them well your clearly wrong but they don't think so.
You really should get your facts straight before you put words into my mouth !!
I have never said that someone who divorces for a wrong reason "will not go to heaven"
The Lord knows that I have committed many sins and so has every single believer and we are still forgiven! The Christian life is not one of sinless perfection but a life that is charcterized by a life heart that loves the Lord and seeks to do His will ... a heart that trusts and believes in Him for salvation and a heart that confesses sin when committed.
Adultery in the life of a believer should never happen, however if it does and the beliver sincerely confesses the sin and repents of it ... it is the same as any other sin that the Lord has forgiven.
Gordon (Coca-Cola)
_____________________________
"As a Christian you are responsible to believe, teach and afirm what the Bible actually says, not what you want the Bible to say" RC Sproul
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/3/2007 9:14:18 AM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Coca-Cola
I have never said that someone who divorces for a wrong reason "will not go to heaven"
The Lord knows that I have committed many sins and so has every single believer and we are still forgiven! The Christian life is not one of sinless perfection but a life that is charcterized by a life heart that loves the Lord and seeks to do His will ... a heart that trusts and believes in Him for salvation and a heart that confesses sin when committed.
Adultery in the life of a believer should never happen, however if it does and the beliver sincerely confesses the sin and repents of it ... it is the same as any other sin that the Lord has forgiven. Gordon (Coca-Cola)
Gordon,
What does repentance mean? Does it mean that as soon as one feels sorry for a sin and verbalizes this sorrow to the Lord, they can then go back and resume what the Lord called sinful?
If a RELATIONSHIP between two people is called adultery (because one of both of them are joined to another in the Lord's sight) how does confession make that relationship not still adultery? I can find no evidence biblically that a second vow undoes what God joins together. In fact, it appears just the opposite: Jesus and Paul both name the other relationship, adultery. Why is man then calling it "lawful marriage"?
Can we GENUINELY repent of a divorce and still be divorced (separated PHYSICALLY (not by the Lord) from our One flesh)? Absolutely. The other person may not want to reconcile (I Cor. 7:10-11), so the alternative is to 'remain unmarried' and serve the Lord wholeheartedly. I know many believe and teach that I Cor. 7:15 allows a person deserted to remarry, but Paul never says such a thing. In fact, he reaffirms the permanency of marriage til death at the end of his teachings (ICor. 7:39).
Can we GENUINELY repent of adultery and then resume that same relationship? Some people seem to be of the opionion that somehow the initial "act" of remarriage is adultery, but then it become lawful in God's eyes. It can then be viewed as any other sin and then He will "join" this union. It is taught that the vow taking was adulterous, but now, with verbal repentance and since the civil authorities deem it lawful, God will now join the two into ONE flesh. My husband saw the ridiculousness of this reasoning at he beginning of his studies on this issue because he had a firm grasp on what repentance really meant. He even posed a question to our pastor at the time: "If I am having an extramarital affair with Bridgette, but in the Lord's eyes(and man's eyes) I am married to Cindy, and I am crying because I feel so bad about this breach of sin in my marriage, can I then go to the Lord and tell him I'm sorry.......................and then go back to Bridgette next week, and keep going back and forth to the Lord in a sorrowful state?
I'm sure you know what the Pastor said----"Of course not!!! If you were to keep going back to that RELATIONSHIP, you would not really be repentant". Hmmmm...........yet, this is exactly what most churches are teaching people today. You CAN go back to a sinful relationship (an adulterous union) and still be AOK with God.
Gordon, I'd like to ask you this: If a person is "standing" for the restoration of their marriage and their partner has entered into adultery----as defined by the Lord, can you counsel them with BIBLICAL proof that what they are standing for(their marriage) has been dissolved by God?
Also: If for you, you see verbal repentance as necessary for true repentance and forgiveness to take place, what IF a person/couple do not see their adultery as such? Are they still "IN" adultery? Will they then be included in the persons spoken about in: I Cor. 6:8-9, Gal. 5:18-21, Rev. 22:14, Mt. 7:20-23?
PS. I do appreciate that you see it as good that a person walks by their convictions in word and action and is not offended at opposing viewpoints. That is my viewpoint. I feel that if I am wrong, the Lord will correct me(if my heart is to really know HIS will) and vice versa. Ultimately, what man thinks does not weigh into this----it is the Lord God whom we will stand before and give account to for those things done in the Body.
With that said though, I do FEAR for those who will be accounted among those Paul spoke of: Men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT DENYING ITS POWER, and from such people turn away!!!!.................................always learning and never able to come to the truth.................but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all...........
There is much of the above in posts I read(humanism/self-love and elevation over God).............for those who live such lives and teach others to do so, I fear greatly! But the Lord is good to say that such shall have their "folly" revealed for all to see........in the appropriate time---just as it happened with Jannes and Jambre. Those who have been swayed in ways opposing those of our Lord's will see and repent of their following man and man's reasonings over the Lord. This is my great hope. I pray our discussions lead many to become free of the enemy's snares as they seek the Lord in His Word with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/3/2007 2:39:32 PM
|
|
|
Coca-Cola
Posts: 46
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline
|
Lastblast.
To refrain from going into great depths I will try to answer the basic thrust of your question.
Your question as I see it is how can I say someone truly repents and then is okay to go back into a relationship that is sinful?
There are many layers of issues to deal with here.
First ... if my ex-wife sees her sinful choices down the road and confesses them to the Lord with a sincere heart ... (which I hope she has or will) ... our marriage has been disolved by unfaithfullness and her obtaining a divorce to boot.
Our marriage can not be restored. I don't believe the Lord would want her at that point to go on as a young woman in her twenties with a sexual drive and be single and to be constantly pulled by the world and her natural sex drive to have sex with men once in a while when she hits low points. Rather she should find herself a good Christian man and get married. Our marriage is not restorable as I have since moved on and gotten remarried. I do not believe if she truly repents before God that she will be destined to a life of constantly fighting her desires to be with a man.
Repentance does normally entail a turning away from the sin and doing the right thing. In some cases (as in our marriage) it is impossible to try to reconclile with your former spouse.
Remember the Lord looks on the heart not on simply on actions. If the heart is right before him He knows that and that is what counts. However the person may not be able to do "the right thing" ... lilfe may make it impossibe ... however God knows the heart and knows that if they could, they would.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets say a woman divorces her husband because she has found a new and better lover or some other wrong reason.
She obtains the divorce and remarries this new and better man
Ten years go by and the Lord has been working in her heart and finally she sees where she was wrong and confesses it to the Lord and her heart is broken for what she did so many years ago.
In the meantime her new husband and her have had four children together.
Does God want children to not have a mother, or a father ... does He want them to live with their dad for 6 months and then with their mom for the other 6 months?
Of course not!
Life may take us down some roads that make it impossible to actually go back to our first spouse even if we are truly repentant.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if she was never remarried and Ten years later she confessed and repented .... she now needs to contact her former spouse and do her best to reconcile and put the marriage back ... but again ten years is a long time ... what has he been doing? It may not happen even if she wants it to.
Gordon (Coca-Cola)
_____________________________
"As a Christian you are responsible to believe, teach and afirm what the Bible actually says, not what you want the Bible to say" RC Sproul
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/3/2007 10:03:46 PM
|
|
|
Teaching_The_Way
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/18/2006
From: Teaching The Way Ministries
Status: offline
|
Friend you know of where Jesus says do not judge? But do you also know that Jesus told us to make a right judgment?
As it is written: John 7:24
24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
NKJV
So is Jesus contradicting him self? Of course not. Many people misunderstand the scriptures my friend. We are allowed to decide what is right. We are not allowed to look at a mans apperence like the pharisees did and determine anything by that because appearences can be decieving So when Jesus said do not judge that is what he meant.
And I did not mention any certain person friend, so how can I judge a person if I did not refer to a certain person? I have been divorced to. You are mad and took my post the wrong way friend because you have divorced as well.
Do not be so offensive or take post personal because they are not meant to be personal.
For me I always talk in general and do not point things to a certain person.
Friend I have been divored twice. Truth is never judging. And if you say it is then do not say anything against say: a homosexual, a prostitute, a thief, a murder a terrorist and so on, because if you then with your difinition of Judging, you would be judging.
Make sure you learn about what judging aactually mean. And you are judging my motives so you are doing the same thing wrong that you accused me of.
I have done loads of research on the term judging in the Bible, and many misunderstands that term Judge, or judging.
If we see the grass green, do we not say it is green out of fear of judging something?
If we see a thief breaking into a home do we say we should not judge him?
Did you forget that the scriptures says that we will judge the angels? Or that we are to judge things between us?
God Bless Friend and Hey friend let us encourage one another.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThePromisedLand
Greetings Teaching the Way,
I first want to say that I am very glad the Lord has blessed you with a believing wife. That is wonderful.
Now for the hard stuff. You said,
quote:
They seem to forget the vows they made to God, to be spouse, and to the people in the church that they will be together for better or for worse. And many Christians do not go by what scripture say about divorce and marriage. So if anyone divorces for reasons other than Adultery, or a Non-believer leaving, then they have lied to God and to their spouse. They have broken a vow (promise) to God. Aren't you glad that God does not break his promises?
I don't think you realize that there are Christians out there who believe that this statement is true of YOU!
Let me share a few quotes:
quote:
Jesus and Paul both taught that to remarry while one has a living covenant spouse, is to enter into adultery. It remains adultery until the lawful spouse dies(Mal. 2:17, Mt. 5:32, 19:3-9, Mk. 10, Lk. 16:16-18, Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:10-12, I Cor. 7:39). In other words, remaining in a second marriage is living in a state of adultery----because one or both belong to another person, joined by God as One.
quote:
The notion that the Christian spouse is not under bondage would also indicate that they are not obligated to bestow on the unfaithful spouse the blessings of marriage. Those blessings may be withheld, but they are to remain single or reconcile, just as God has shown us with His own marriage to Israel. If the wayward spouse never repents and reconciles, guess what, the will pay an eternal price.
quote:
The law of marriage was from the beginning as Jesus said, and the so-called "exception" was no exception at all for those who were fully married, but the Jews, much like the professing Christians today, perverted this law to justify their adultery.
quote:
Never in Paul's whole discourse on marriage do we see him indicating that divorce dissolves a lawful marriage, that desertion dissolves a lawful marriage, or that another marriage contracted while one already has a living spouse dissolves a lawful marriage. So now we have multitudes resting in the hopes that they are rightly interpreting Mt. 19:9... there are a whole lot of people living in a state of adultery----most of them completely ignorant to what the Lord has said on the matter.
I write this as a caution really. Be careful how you judge those who are divorced for reasons other than you (abuse, adulteries, child molestation, etc.). All of the charges (lying to God, forgetting their vows, breaking their vow to God, not obeying scripture) that you level against those who find themselves in this situation are being leveled against you! Not only that, according to them, you will not inherit the kingdom because you both are adulterers. That's tough!
Personally, I think it's very unloving to have someone accuse you of these things and tell you that you both will go to hell if you don't repent and divorce, when your divorce is the result of your spouses sin. In the same way, it is right for you to declare as guilty those who are also divorcees, like you, who also are divorced as a result of their spouses sins, although different but just as serious as yours? Believe me, some folk are not going to let you off the hook just because you didn't go to the courthouse yourself.
quote:
I write this as a caution really. Be careful how you judge those who are divorced for reasons other than you (abuse, adulteries, child molestation, etc.). All of the charges (lying to God, forgetting their vows, breaking their vow to God, not obeying scripture) that you level against those who find themselves in this situation are being leveled against you! Not only that, according to them, you will not inherit the kingdom because you both are adulterers. That's tough!
Personally, I think it's very unloving to have someone accuse you of these things and tell you that you both will go to hell if you don't repent and divorce, when your divorce is the result of your spouses sin. In the same way, it is right for you to declare as guilty those who are also divorcees, like you, who also are divorced as a result of their spouses sins, although different but just as serious as yours? Believe me, some folk are not going to let you off the hook just because you didn't go to the courthouse yourself.
_____________________________
http://teachingtheway.net/
If our opinions does not line up with
the scriptures, then our opinions are
dead wrong! Gods words are more important
than our opinions!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/4/2007 9:41:32 AM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Coca-Cola
Your question as I see it is how can I say someone truly repents and then is okay to go back into a relationship that is sinful?
There are many layers of issues to deal with here.
Hi Gordon,
The admin does not want personal situations posted in the divorce or remarriage threads, so I won't address your situation.
However, I see that you believe that if one repents of adultery, that it is all well and fine, but that adultery and/or divorce dissolves the marriage (covenant/first) marriage. What do you make of Hosea and Gomer? She committed adultery, yet their marriage was NOT dissolved in the eyes of God. He waited for her. Also, we see Paul preaching in Rom. 7:2-3 that neither a woman's adultery, nor remarriage dissolves her covenant marriage, but that only her husband's death will do so (No mention of a divorce by Paul as having the power to dissolve what God joined together).
Also, we see in the case of Herod/Herodias that neither her adultery/remarriage nor her divorce from Philip seemed to dissolve her marriage to Philip. John told Herod that he had Philip's wife. So, in the case of Herodias, would it not appear that her repentance from adultery would mean forsaking her present "marriage" that was unlawful and that she should return to her lawful husband, or remain "unmarried" if he was unwilling to reconcile?
quote:
I don't believe the Lord would want her at that point to go on as a young woman in her twenties with a sexual drive and be single and to be constantly pulled by the world and her natural sex drive to have sex with men once in a while when she hits low points. Rather she should find herself a good Christian man and get married.
So it is your belief that "flesh" reigns over what Paul taught (FROM THE LORD)-----that "if a woman does depart, she is to remain unmarried or reconciled with her husband." What if the husband has "moved on" and he refuses to reconcile........or if he has not moved on, but still refuses to reconcile? Is it still your belief that because a woman has sexual desires it is ok to disobey the Lord in "remaining unmarried"?
quote:
Repentance does normally entail a turning away from the sin and doing the right thing. In some cases it is impossible to try to reconclile with your former spouse.
Why is it impossible? If someone is in sin (adultery) and the Lord did not recognize a divorce as dissolving the marriage, and His Will is for a covenant husband and wife to reflect the relationship of Jesus and the Church, how is that impossible? Are not ALL things possible to those who love God? If Gomer's heart and lifestyle can change and Hosea and Gomer's relationship reflect that of Jesus and the Church, how can that pattern NOT be repeated with those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
quote:
Remember the Lord looks on the heart not on simply on actions. If the heart is right before him He knows that and that is what counts.
You are right. We can DO the right things(based upon the Word of God) for the wrong reasons, or we can do what appears "right" for the wrong reasons(not based upon the Word of God). The second is very dangerous ground for the Christian. I see on this forum MUCH "doing what is right in one's own sight" and not based upon what the Lord has said. WAY too much reasoning and not enough self-sacrifice and obedience to the Lord during the trials of life------where the power of God WILL be manifested in the lives of those who faithfully rely upon the Lord and do not follow their own reasonings and ill counsel of others----which in the end, brings destruction to the ONE flesh that GOD (not man) brought together----for HIS purposes.
quote:
However the person may not be able to do "the right thing" ... lilfe may make it impossibe ... however God knows the heart and knows that if they could, they would.
So you don't believe that the Holy Spirit gives people the power to OVERCOME? Now, I completely understand the position of the unbeliever or confessed believer who really hasn't been born again----they can't help but to sin. However, those who truly ARE born again, have the power to not sin/turn away from present sinful relationships and remain faithful to their covenant mate and God, who also is involved in the covenant marriage.
quote:
Lets say a woman divorces her husband because she has found a new and better lover or some other wrong reason.
She obtains the divorce and remarries this new and better man
Ten years go by and the Lord has been working in her heart and finally she sees where she was wrong and confesses it to the Lord and her heart is broken for what she did so many years ago.
In the meantime her new husband and her have had four children together.
Let's say the woman took another woman's husband and the first wife has been standing for her husband to repent from his adultery? Who is the man's wife in the Lord's eyes and who is not? Is a marriage lawful based upon what we want or is it lawful based upon what God says?
quote:
Does God want children to not have a mother, or a father ... does He want them to live with their dad for 6 months and then with their mom for the other 6 months?
Of course not!
Of course the Lord would not want that, yet we see in scripture where that actually did happen-----the men forsook their wives and children as an act of repentance---because they had disobeyed the Lord (Ezra 9-10). Did it grieve the Lord to see these families having to suffer due to sin? Absolutely. Did the Lord's grief then change his mind about the nature of repenting (forsaking the forbidden relationships)? No. His judgment stood.
quote:
Life may take us down some roads that make it impossible to actually go back to our first spouse even if we are truly repentant.
Then we have the Lord's admonishment is such cases: Remain unmarried. (I Cor. 7:10-11). There was no other course of action offered. A covenant marriage is lifelong.
quote:
Now if she was never remarried and Ten years later she confessed and repented .... she now needs to contact her former spouse and do her best to reconcile and put the marriage back ... but again ten years is a long time ... what has he been doing? It may not happen even if she wants it to.
See, in such a case, you have acknowledged that a divorce/adultery did NOT dissolve the covenant marriage..............do you see this?
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/4/2007 5:39:53 PM
|
|
|
Coca-Cola
Posts: 46
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline
|
Lastblast.
I need to apologize as you are right that the Admins have asked us not to write about our personal experiences with our divorces and such. I find this very difficult as going through it myself has given me a new understanding of all of it. However they have asked and I should listen to what they have said.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am just going to fire away and answer your questions or most of them.
quote:
What do you make of Hosea and Gomer? She committed adultery, yet their marriage was NOT dissolved in the eyes of God. He waited for her. Also, we see Paul preaching in Rom. 7:2-3 that neither a woman's adultery, nor remarriage dissolves her covenant marriage, but that only her husband's death will do so (No mention of a divorce by Paul as having the power to dissolve what God joined together).
Hosea and Gomer are not any kind of proof that sexual sin DOES NOT break the marriage bond. Rather their marriage shows that divorce is not the only option ... Like Hosea ... we should always seek restoration if our spouse is willing to repent. It is however a personal choice based on the individual situation. You cannot get around the fact that Jesus says in Matthew 5 & 19 that divorce is a sanctioned option if your spouse committs sexual sin. Is divorce the ONLY option? No! In fact the Bible is clear from cover to cover that the heart of true bellver is to forgive and restore. Forgiveness is never an option, however restoration in the case of sexual sin is. If a man chooses to be like Hosea ... good for him ... if on the other hand he has looked at his situation and does not think it is good to or even possible to restore and decides to use the option of divorce than that is his choice in his situation.
Sexual sin breaks the marriage bond ... a divorce is the final and absolute disolution of a marriage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Also, we see in the case of Herod/Herodias that neither her adultery/remarriage nor her divorce from Philip seemed to dissolve her marriage to Philip. John told Herod that he had Philip's wife. So, in the case of Herodias, would it not appear that her repentance from adultery would mean forsaking her present "marriage" that was unlawful and that she should return to her lawful husband, or remain "unmarried" if he was unwilling to reconcile?
Herodias was the "guilty" spouse who left her husband Phillip with no reason to. Therfore her marriage to Herod was not a ligitimate one. I agree. However I belileve Phillip would have been free to remarry.
If Herodias repented and became a believer (she was not a Christian) ... she would have to look at her situation carefully. If she would have decided to leave Herod to go back to Phillip (if he would take her back) I am not convinced she would be expected to before God. She was wrong to marry another man for sure. However playing musical marriages and possibly uprooting your children after you have been remarried for a number of years is not something I see the Lord wanting either.
Simply put ... I am not convinced that the Lord expects His people to leave their new spouse and family (kids) to go back to their former spouse. Were they wrong? Yes for sure they were ... however I am not so sure that staying in the marriage and raising the kids in a stable Christian home is something the Lord would judge as wrong.
I guess the question is ... Does someone continue to commit adultery if they stay in the marriage even after they have confessed thier sin to the Lord and admitted how wrong they were and that they should have stayed with thier first spouse? ... I am not so sure they do continue to live in adultery.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
So it is your belief that "flesh" reigns over what Paul taught (FROM THE LORD)-----that "if a woman does depart, she is to remain unmarried or reconciled with her husband." What if the husband has "moved on" and he refuses to reconcile........or if he has not moved on, but still refuses to reconcile? Is it still your belief that because a woman has sexual desires it is ok to disobey the Lord in "remaining unmarried"?
No ... if a man or woman leaves their spouse for any other reason other than adultery ... they should remain single.
However the first issue is ... they shouldn't have been leaving their spouses. Paul was talking to the Christians in the Corithian church who had been divorcing their unbelliving spouses or who were in the process of doing so, for no good reason. He said No! do not do this! ... if however you have ... he was saying ... you need to remain unmarried now or reconcile with your former spouse.
If someone leaves their wife or husband for wrong (sinful) reason ... their marriage bond is still intact before God ... Adultery, death and an unbeliving spouse leaving a believer are the only things that break the marriage bond.
However ... lets be realistic ... how long will it take before one of the two allow someone from the opposite sex get to close and before you know it sexual sin has occured. It does not have to be intercourse for it to be adultery.
Once adultery has occured the marriage bond is broken and ... hopefully the marriage can still be worked on and salvaged ... but divorce is an option at that point.
I am certainly not advocating that someone would go out and have an affair so they can Biblicallly divorce their spouse ... if adultery happens the innocent spouse has the option of divorce not the guilty one.
I am also not advocating that you stay away long enough so your spouse cheats on you ... if you have left the marriage under wrong reasons and your spouse falls into sexual sin you are gulity along with them for their adultery anyway as you have in a big way caused it by not being their to meet their needs and abonding the marriage.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deut 4:1-5 Commands that a spouse cannot take back their spouse who has left and been with or married someone else (even if the second spouse dies) .... so I am not sure I see your point that they should leave their 2nd spouse and repent and go back to thier former spouse. Old Testament Isreal was commanded that they were not allowed to take them back even if they wanted to leave their 2nd spouse and come back to their former 1st spouse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I said ...
Now if she was never remarried and Ten years later she confessed and repented .... she now needs to contact her former spouse and do her best to reconcile and put the marriage back ... but again ten years is a long time ... what has he been doing? It may not happen even if she wants it to.
In response you said ...
See, in such a case, you have acknowledged that a divorce/adultery did NOT dissolve the covenant marriage..............do you see this?
No you are reading into what I have said. I said if she was never married (no sexual sin) and then repents she needs to be reconciled to her husband if she can be. However in this scenario it has been ten years ... what has he been doing with his life? Has he been remarried or had sex with another woman?
Sexual sin is what breaks the marriage bond .. not divorce. Divorce is allowed because of sexual sin. Divorce is never commanded but it is allowed.
Gordon (Coca-Cola)
_____________________________
"As a Christian you are responsible to believe, teach and afirm what the Bible actually says, not what you want the Bible to say" RC Sproul
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/4/2007 9:26:54 PM
|
|
|
lastblast
Posts: 1603
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Hosea and Gomer are not any kind of proof that sexual sin DOES NOT break the marriage bond. Rather their marriage shows that divorce is not the only option ... Like Hosea ... we should always seek restoration if our spouse is willing to repent. It is however a personal choice based on the individual situation.
Gordon,
Where do we ever see that we are given an option to reconcile with a spouse that's sinned? Also, where do we see a time limit concerning a spouse's repentance before we "go on" to another person? As for Hosea and Gomer, you say that their marital bond was broken...........do you mean their ONE flesh that God joined was now dissolved?
quote:
You cannot get around the fact that Jesus says in Matthew 5 & 19 that divorce is a sanctioned option if your spouse committs sexual sin.
I don't read Mt. 19:9 as you seem to. I do not read Mt. 19:9 as a permission to dissolve a marriage joined by God due to sexual sin WITHIN the marriage. I see this passage as possibly pertaining to two scenerios: first, Jesus is speaking about fornication(pre-marital sexual relations, Mt. 1:18-24) OR Jesus is speaking about putting away those marriages which are NOT joined by Him, therefore unlawful unions in His sight (adulterous remarriage, homosexual marriage, and incestual marriage). There is no evidence that God joins ANY of those type relationships, nor will ever. That also takes care of the "hard-heartedness" issue.
See, with your scenerio reconciliation is situational.............meaning some cannot get over it, thus reconcile with their lawful spouse (in my viewpoint this is hardheartedness), while others do exactly that (forgive and reconcile, if reconciliation is possible----this I view as not being hardhearted). Some even wait/pray/love while their partner is continuing in sin..........as Hosea did. One group can be viewed as "hard-hearted" because they refuse to wait for repentance, pray for repentance, and long for the relationship which God joined together. Instead, they MOVE ON because their flesh wants to. You may say, "well, I don't view it as hard-hearted because many have forgiven and moved on", yet why is there a difference in people's reactions to sin against them and the marriage covenant? Can both situations be God ordained? I don't believe so as I dont' believe God is a God of situational ethics when it comes to morality, faithfulness, and covenant keeping. I believe ALL of us are held to the same standard and where standards deviate, flesh is involved.
quote:
Is divorce the ONLY option? No! In fact the Bible is clear from cover to cover that the heart of true bellver is to forgive and restore. Forgiveness is never an option, however restoration in the case of sexual sin is.
Again, I dont' see anywhere in scripture where we are given an "option" to reconcile with our One Flesh (the one God joins us to).
quote:
Herodias was the "guilty" spouse who left her husband Phillip with no reason to. Therfore her marriage to Herod was not a ligitimate one. I agree. However I belileve Phillip would have been free to remarry.
What do you do with Rom. 7:2-3? Paul very clearly taught that even in the face of adultery, only death dissolved the marriage bond. Not one time in all of his teachings on marriage will you find that divorce dissolves a marriage. In Rom. 7:2-3 his use of an adulterous wife is not by "accident". It is very purposeful and reaffirms his other teachings on the permanency of marriage (I Cor. 7:39) as it also reaffirms Jesus' teachings that to enter into another marriage AFTER a divorce (for any reason) would be to commit adultery and as Paul says, to be called an adulteress/adulterer.
quote:
If Herodias repented and became a believer (she was not a Christian) ... she would have to look at her situation carefully. If she would have decided to leave Herod to go back to Phillip (if he would take her back) I am not convinced she would be expected to before God. She was wrong to marry another man for sure. However playing musical marriages and possibly uprooting your children after you have been remarried for a number of years is not something I see the Lord wanting either.
Simply put ... I am not convinced that the Lord expects His people to leave their new spouse and family (kids) to go back to their former spouse. Were they wrong? Yes for sure they were ... however I am not so sure that staying in the marriage and raising the kids in a stable Christian home is something the Lord would judge as wrong.
You dont' sound too convinced, Gordon. Either in the case of Herodias, her 1st marriage is dissolved or it is not in the sight of God. We see by John's comments that it is NOT dissolved, that she and Herod are actually involved in an adulterous relationship, not a lawful marriage. If Herodias wanted out of that sin, her ONLY option would be to forsake her adultery.
You say the Lord would not want to uproot families, yet I gave you scripture that shows EXACTLY that due to disobedience. The act of repentance for the men in Ezra 9-10 WAS to leave their families (children and wives).
quote:
I guess the question is ... Does someone continue to commit adultery if they stay in the marriage even after they have confessed thier sin to the Lord and admitted how wrong they were and that they should have stayed with thier first spouse? ... I am not so sure they do continue to live in adultery.
Again, you don't sound very convinced of your position. If the Lord has said that He does not recognize the divorce in the first place, then the "marriage" is not recognized either because in the Lord's eyes, the persons involved are STILL married to their covenant spouses-not to their new "spouses". To then say they should STAY in those relationships is to tell people to stay in their sin.........very dangerous counsel.
quote:
No ... if a man or woman leaves their spouse for any other reason other than adultery ... they should remain single.
So, you acknowledge that "fleshly needs/wants" do not supercede obedience to the Lord. I'm glad to hear you say that, though I disagreee on the "adultery" clause that allows SOME spouses to find other people to meet their needs.
quote:
However the first issue is ... they shouldn't have been leaving their spouses. Paul was talking to the Christians in the Corithian church who had been divorcing their unbelliving spouses or who were in the process of doing so, for no good reason. He said No! do not do this! ... if however you have ... he was saying ... you need to remain unmarried now or reconcile with your former spouse.
Actually in that section of scripture, Paul is speaking to two BELIEVERS (I Cor. 7:10-12). In the next part he deals with one who is married to an unbeliever. He doesn't give instruction to the unbeliever because they do not submit to God and it would be pointless. He however does address the believer and their role in such a marriage.
quote:
If someone leaves their wife or husband for wrong (sinful) reason ... their marriage bond is still intact before God ... Adultery, death and an unbeliving spouse leaving a believer are the only things that break the marriage bond.
You say adultery breaks the marriage bond, yet we see that remarriage adultery does not (herod/herodias). Why is it you believe that extramarital adultery breaks a marriage bond, but remarriage adultery does not? That is a very confusing stance to me and one I think you would have an impossible time proving with scripture.
quote:
Once adultery has occured the marriage bond is broken and ... hopefully the marriage can still be worked on and salvaged ... but divorce is an option at that point.
I'm still really confused on what you consider a broken bond? Is the marriage dissolved, injured, what? I think Rom. 7:2-3 shows that the marriage bond is NOT broken by adultery (extramarital OR remarriage adultery). Only death dissolves that bond and frees one to join another person without sinning.
quote:
if adultery happens the innocent spouse has the option of divorce not the guilty one.
So, if the innocent one stands for the restoration of their marriage, is their marriage dissolved or not if the guilty one divorces the innocent and gets married to a different person? In other words, the innocent determines whether the guilty STAYS in a sinful state or is released and is able to "move on" with another person? Do you really believe the Lord gives us that power?
quote:
Deut 4:1-5 Commands that a spouse cannot take back their spouse who has left and been with or married someone else (even if the second spouse dies) .... so I am not sure I see your point that they should leave their 2nd spouse and repent and go back to thier former spouse. Old Testament Isreal was commanded that they were not allowed to take them back even if they wanted to leave their 2nd spouse and come back to their former 1st spouse.
Read Jer. 3 and then go back to Deut. 24 and see WHY it was said the wife could not go back. Also, consider that when Jesus address those who remarry, He said they were in ADULTERY. Adultery CAN be repented of, so unless you believe the second vow supercedes a first vow (which it sure doesn't appear to be the case in NT scripture on divorce/remarriage). In NT passages on divorce, God does not see the divorce as dissolving the marriage, freeing the divorced to join others. He sees the joining of others as sin against the original covenant.
quote:
No you are reading into what I have said. I said if she was never married (no sexual sin) and then repents she needs to be reconciled to her husband if she can be. However in this scenario it has been ten years ... what has he been doing with his life? Has he been remarried or had sex with another woman?
So you believe if a divorced person has sex with another, they can not be rejoined with their covenant spouse?
_____________________________
Blessings as you seek Him, Cindy
What does the bible say on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage?
www.marriagedivorce.com
www.cadz.net/faq.html
|
|
|
|
|
divorce leads to hell? - 2/6/2007 4:14:46 PM
|
|
|
blessednw
Posts: 724
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
My husband and I have very recently (as in today) separated. He has told me that the person who causes the divorce is going to go to hell because they are behaving in an unChristlike manner.
Is this true?
Jesus did say that divorce leads to adultery (marriage to another while one's spouse is still living). Jesus and Paul said that unrepentant adulterers won't inherit the Kingdom. Some believe this means, "going to hell". Some would say you get into heaven without any rewards, but just saved. I don't know for sure but I say that unrepentant adultery is serious sin.
You can seperate if things are are at an unsafe crisis point, but often, if people are seperating because they "just can't take this person anymore", it can lead to hardheartedness, and then divorce looks like a solution. Then adultery/remarriage to another not your spouse can look acceptable.
Youguys need help. You both need to humble yourselves and seek the face of God. Stop looking at his misdeeds since you cannot control them, but let the Spirit of God point out your sins and ask Him for the gift of godly repentance. He will bless you with insight, and supportive people if you ask. He will help you if you need backbone and will to begin to fight what the enemy has done to you both and trust God for a breakthrough.
Obey God:1 Corinthians 7:10-12 (New International Version)
10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
this is the Lord Jesus' command. When we obey, He blesses us with peace and direction. When we have it "our way" like Burger King exhorts us to do, and try to do things alternatively, not in agreement with His Word, we easily become deceived about sin and obedience.
Your husband may be saying lots of things that you don't like. Put more stock into what God says, align with Him and then you can not be as worried about accusations.
and remember, the enemy is behind the bad stuff. If your husband is showing you hostility, it is the enemy just using him. Are you gonna let the enemy trick you into making your husband the one to blame? Yes your hubby has responsibility and God WILL deal with him on that, eventually.
Also, if you have the sin of adultery between you, that spiritual breach could be oppressing your marriage. You did confess to God, but did you repent to your husband? He is the one you committed adultery against. These things can oppress and fester if they are not exposed. This could bring a breakthrough to your relationship. It could explain a lot too.
When one is set free from hidden sin, against God and others, they can really be free.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 2/7/2007 7:50:33 PM
|
|
|
didi768
Posts: 4
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: offline
|
I married my husband and did not love him. I still don't. I think those who married for love and lost it need to MAKE it work. If it was there once, you have something to go back to. I however have nothing to look forward to and am miserable.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce - One Stop Thread - 2/15/2007 9:05:47 AM
|
|
|
Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7679
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
To everyone,
I want to be very clear about something.
The purpose of this thread is to dicuss the TOPIC of divorce.
It is NOT for the purpose of discussing YOUR divorce.
I have found that people who post with statements like, "so because I divorced my spouse I am now forever a sinner and never to be forgiven?" are opening themselves up to being hurt or hurting someone else.
If you are not able to participate in this topic without discussing the experience of YOUR divorce then I must request that you stay out of the thread.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Thank you for your attention, understanding, and cooperation.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
_____________________________
Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://budurl.com/CWonFacebook
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Divorce 4 Adultery or Non Christian Leaves - 2/15/2007 11:26:05 AM
|
|
|
blessednw
Posts: 724
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: lastblast
I feel that if I am wrong, the Lord will correct me(if my heart is to really know HIS will) and vice versa. Ultimately, what man thinks does not weigh into this----it is the Lord God whom we will stand before and give account to for those things done in the Body.
With that said though, I do FEAR for those who will be accounted among those Paul spoke of: Men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT DENYING ITS POWER, and from such people turn away!!!!.................................always learning and never able to come to the truth.................but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all...........
There is much of the above in posts I read(humanism/self-love and elevation over God).............for those who live such lives and teach others to do so, I fear greatly! But the Lord is good to say that such shall have their "folly" revealed for all to see........in the appropriate time---just as it happened with Jannes and Jambre. Those who have been swayed in ways opposing those of our Lord's will see and repent of their following man and man's reasonings over the Lord. This is my great hope. I pray our discussions lead many to become free of the enemy's snares as they seek the Lord in His Word with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Well said Cindy. Because I have been so intimately immersed in humanism and humanistic psychology in my past understanding, I believe you are so right. As the Bible says about the end times and the times of Noah, "each one did what was right in his own eyes". Humanistically, we are the center of our beliefs, and if we are not submitted to the Lordship of Christ, we are submitted to our own lordship.
Trouble is, that sometimes these things are quite subtle as they creep into our doctrine or practice. It may take some earth shaking consequences/life struggles to begin to see if we are submitted to Christ in obeying His commands.
Jesus did promise to purify His bride, and that may be part of the reason that so many are questioning our practices of divorce and multiple marriages within the Church.
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
